Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

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Crazy that Iron Treads is seeing more usage now after nearly falling to UU. It would have been the best Rapid Spinner in the game if it weren’t for Great Tusk. It definitely has a good niche in OU.
 

awyp

'Alexa play Ladyfingers by Herb Alpert'
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This level of disrespect to Valiant, it is the best fairy rn but nobody respects it. :blobpensive:
Fair, I usually don't like Valiant matchups with Gambit because there's a decent shot it's running a Fighting move, so preferably I would like to have something on the team that can take on some Valiants / Enam matchups when suggesting this set.
 
Crazy that Iron Treads is seeing more usage now after nearly falling to UU. It would have been the best Rapid Spinner in the game if it weren’t for Great Tusk. It definitely has a good niche in OU.
For all that people love to farm upvotes by hating on Treads, it's really not a bad mon - just overshadowed by Great Tusk. A fast, bulky steel type with Volt Switch and Rapid Spin is useful, even if it's not what every team requires. The tier finally having more flying and fairy types also benefits Treads, since it has a better matchup against both than Tusk.

There's also the suicide lead niche with Stealth Rock and Steel Beam, which is reliable at getting hazards up since Hat can't safely switch in (or stay in, if Hat led) due to the steel STAB. Certainly not enough to keep it in OU, but a notable niche nonetheless.
 
Crazy that Iron Treads is seeing more usage now after nearly falling to UU. It would have been the best Rapid Spinner in the game if it weren’t for Great Tusk. It definitely has a good niche in OU.
I posted this in the most recent Usage Stats thread:
In the post-HOME OU meta, I think Iron Treads will gain more of a niche over Great Tusk for these reasons that Iron Treads could not enjoy in pre-HOME OU:
  • Outspeeds Lando-T
    • Great Tusk also cannot OHKO Defensive Lando-T without a boosting item:
    • 252 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 272-324 (71.2 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • And since Defensive Lando-T cannot OHKO even Iron Treads back...
    • 0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Treads: 254-302 (79.1 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • Iron Treads can take advantage of being faster than Lando-T to outspeed and OHKO offensive Lando-T before Lando-T deals grievous damage:
    • 252 Atk Iron Treads Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 344-408 (107.8 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • Better Enamorus match-up
    • Great Tusk gets outsped and OHKOed by Enamorus Moonblast unless it uses Assault Vest or something even stranger:
    • 252 SpA Enamorus Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 524-620 (120.7 - 142.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • Iron Treads speed ties with Enamorus, and Boots Enamorus cannot OHKO Iron Treads:
    • 252 SpA Enamorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 270-318 (84.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • Better defensive synergy with Zamazenta-H FWIW
    • Great Tusk and Zamazenta-H share weaknesses to Flying, Psychic, and Fairy due to both of them being Fighting-types
    • Zamazenta-H and Iron Treads do not share any weaknesses
    • Great Tusk only speed tying with Baxcalibur also doesn't help, making those shared weaknesses with Zamazenta-H quite apparent and easily hit in practice
  • Better Zapdos match-up
    • Great Tusk gets outsped and OHKOed by offensive Zapdos Hurricane unless it uses Assault Vest or stranger:
    • 168 SpA Zapdos Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 542-638 (124.8 - 147%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • Iron Treads escapes the OHKO by Zapdos Heat Wave unless Zapdos is Modest or uses a boosting item:
    • 252 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 270-318 (84.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • Throw in Iron Treads outspeeding Zapdos, and at least Treads can do something before getting KOed
  • Outspeeds Arcanine-H
    • Arcanine-H naturally gets OHKOed by Earthquake unless it Teras
    • Only Iron Treads can outspeed Arcanine-H and therefore reduce its damage output to Extreme Speed or Scarf anything in the 1-vs-1
I remember all of these mattering in post-HOME OU games, and these may be why I've had more success with a team with Iron Treads (and Zamazenta-H) in it than teams with Great Tusk in them in the post-HOME meta.
...and of all these reasons, the biggest reason to run Iron Treads instead of Great Tusk is that it partners with Zamazenta-H so much better. Good gosh do I hate stacking weaknesses in bulky offence or balance.
 
So, has anyone tried out the newly released (nerfed) battle bond gren ? What are your thoughts ? I think specs on rain could still be very powerful vs team that lack water absorb, especially with the possibility of Teraing to water. Basculegion-F's tera'd surf already 2HKOes or OHKOes most of the tier under rain, and Gren is quite a bit stronger.

Nevermind, went ahead and got the answer myself, holy shit :
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1889068438 (bad team I know but funni frogge)

+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss in Rain: 373-439 (86.3 - 101.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Is gren next up out of atlanta ? I think this might actually be better than old battle bond in terms of raw power...
 
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awyp

'Alexa play Ladyfingers by Herb Alpert'
is a Forum Moderatoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
So, has anyone tried out the newly released (nerfed) battle bond gren ? What are your thoughts ? I think specs on rain could still be very powerful vs team that lack water absorb, especially with the possibility of Teraing to water. Basculegion-F's tera'd surf already 2HKOes or OHKOes most of the tier under rain, and Gren is quite a bit stronger.

Nevermind, went ahead and got the answer myself, holy shit :
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1889068438 (bad team I know but funni frogge)

+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss in Rain: 373-439 (86.3 - 101.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Is gren next up out of atlanta ? I think this might actually be better than old battle bond in terms of raw power...
it’s nerfed for sure, which is upsetting because I miss ash greninja. Now the boosts get affected by unaware mons which is a negative aspect. Outside of that I like Battle bond I’ve used it rain and it hits extremely hard. My friend has been trying Life Orb with a Heatran team member for defensive utility and it’s been working well it’s been sweeping hard against offensive based teams.
 

msnt

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https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1888891039-3bi33sjc5jo5wtj3jggw9npwwd2jwn5pw

kingambit is a super broken Pokémon…

casually playing another game, match in my favour except have my eye on a runaway cress or gambit.. all good, I’m leading. Lucky burn on the cress matters a lot for the reliable 3HKO with ace

gambit: exists

..literally a list of checks to deal with it, but because of the stupid 50/50s it kept getting right, combined with just 1 crit, it just completely dunked the game on its head.

it didn’t even need to get every 50/50 right lol. The only one that mattered was that Hydreigon would EP rather than uturn/dark pulse

usually this doesn’t matter for almost every Pokémon. But gambit gets stronger as the game goes on, and with each 50/50 it gets right…

“why didn’t cinderace come out with the wisp earlier” - this is because it’s the only thing on the team that can deal with the cresselia, so I couldn’t risk sacking it. It’s a team super weak to the popular cress set.

edit: I’m an idiot, the cress couldn’t Tera anymore so hydreigon would have dealt with it. Point still stands kingambit is ridiculous.
Yeah I think the main problem here is just Kingambit + terastallize.

I really do think that the council should make a new survey about what the community is thinking about the mechanic, I'm not a big fan of banning the whole mechanic because I think it's a really interesting mechanic but we need something to limit it.

In my opinion we have to give the information about which tera is used that's best choice between banning tera and keeping it.
 

awyp

'Alexa play Ladyfingers by Herb Alpert'
is a Forum Moderatoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Yeah I think the main problem here is just Kingambit + terastallize.

I really do think that the council should make a new survey about what the community is thinking about the mechanic, I'm not a big fan of banning the whole mechanic because I think it's a really interesting mechanic but we need something to limit it.

In my opinion we have to give the information about which tera is used that's best choice between banning tera and keeping it.
so are you saying for Tera to be shown on team preview?
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
so are you saying for Tera to be shown on team preview?
That's a good start for me. In fact, since we're gonna be taking notes on what the tera is at team preview anyway, why not make it a quality of life change where a mon's tera type is shown as long as it's on the field? I mean, showdown already did that by putting the counter for the pp of the moves so this wouldn't really change much. Moreover, can we please have it where there's some sort of box or something that says if a player already used their tera? Just for some QoL stuff so we wouldn't need to find a sheet of paper or open notepad every time we play a game
 
Gliscor, oh how we missed you.

Reuniclus in this meta, with Trick Room and Stored Power + screens up :) fun times await
^ literally the only thing I got from this trailer

also the big pug guy or whatever is funny, monkey looks stupid I hope its broken so I never have to see it’s ugly face in ou
 
So like...another great Ground type is confirmed coming back. I wonder how well Gliscor is gonna perform.
I think it has potential to be OU but will likely fall to UU. It has great resistance/immunity to Tusks STAB... until you realize that Tusk carries Ice Spinner. That said, this mon may actually force Tusk to run Ice Spinner just to deal with it. However, it's likely that it lost Roost in the move purge. Prob kept Knock off though.
Gliscor, oh how we missed you.

Reuniclus in this meta, with Trick Room and Stored Power + screens up :) fun times await
Given what the trailer showed, Reuniclus isn't coming out until the second DLC, so thet meta has lots of chances to adapt around that.

Ninetales and Snorlax caught my attention though. History has shown that if the base form makes it to the game, the others do as well so we have a great Snow setter and a new sun setter. Which means if I had to *guess* we are also getting a certain green frog back as well next DLC.

Snorlax actually could be OU material as a bulky Tera threat. Lax was always held back by it's Normal typing and with Thick Fat it can more easily tera into something like Ground for STAB EQ or other types to neutralize Ice or Fire Weaknesses or better yet, flat out resist them and wall.
 
Tera water/fairy Snorlax sounds nasty, also Reuniclus is going to end Garg whole carrer.
Snorlax actually could be OU material as a bulky Tera threat. Lax was always held back by it's Normal typing and with Thick Fat it can more easily tera into something like Ground for STAB EQ or other types to neutralize Ice or Fire Weaknesses or better yet, flat out resist them and wall.
Thick Fat fairy Snorlax might be a decent Bax check but Idk, without some curses Lax bulk isn't that great.
 
Y'all ready for the true king of OU to return? The extremely centralizing Mightyena?
So unironically this does have me somewhat excited and concerned. While I know this isn't the place to theorize, looking at the DLC, it appears its meant to be an isle of armor equivalent. The "rival" in the DLC used a Poochnyna and if everyone recalls from Isle of Armor, those rivals used Galarian Slowpoke. If by some miracle Mightyena gets an Evo this gen and retains Intimidate/Moxie, we may have yet another Dark type threat on our hands.
 
If Gliscor loses Roost and Toxic, that's actually a huge nerf to its viability. It would likely keep Knock Off though, which is really important in giving it a niche over Lando-T.
 
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