Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

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luckie

unluckiest player
Today is the day where we begin to settle the debate of Tusk v Lando for the title of tier king.

Transfer moves substantially hurt lando, losing Toxic, Defog, Knock off, Rock Polish & Explosion, meaning it loses a big draw in hazard removal to Tusk along with a lot of other utility moves that would've given it niches. Tusk on the other hand has a much worse ability, lacks a pivot move & is slightly slower.

Final bets on who's going to be the dominant force.

Personally, I think Tusk will have more usage of the two, but they'll compete enough that another mon like kingambit takes the spot for #1 most used.
If Lando still had Knock and Defog I would contemplate between the two but since it lost those two moves in particular, def Tusk imo
 
It'll be interesting to see who claims top Ground type between Great Tusk and Lando-T.
idk man, i think its just a toss up for the most part

tusk is going to be better suited for offensive style teams as the glue, but lando is more suited for the bulkier offensive styles of play
tusk has the stronger stab options in headlong and cc, plus rapid spin which cant be preyed upon by defiant mons like gapdos, and its a ground type that could potentially fucking obliterate chien pao, who will be the most common ice type in the tier

but lando offers higher baseline speed, boosting options, higher attack, and intimidate to keep the PLETHORA of scary physical attackers toned down (fun fact, lando actually tanks more hits with intimidate than tusk even with the lower defense stat iirc)
ground/flying typing, new nasty plot to potentially run a better special set

lando has a lot more versatility, and intimidate just fits on a lot more team structures, but i dont think it overshadows tusk in the slightest
they seem more like equals if anything
 
Crazy to think that Lando's decade of dominance may finally be over.
If this truly is the end of Lando, It'll be hilarious that a form of Donphan of all mons was the one to take him down.
Either way Lando will certainly go down as probably the best competetive pokemon ever. With the accelerated power creep of modern gens, I don't think anything else will manage 4 gens of dominance in singles and double like that again.
 
Even without the ability to put any pressure on most things... and being functionally complete incapable of touching Ghosts?
I disagree on this one. A set with heal bell, seismic toss, shadow ball, softboiled is great all round. Seismic toss is consistent damage (more than many other walls can achieve), shadow ball is a means to nail most ghost types (bar h-zoroark), considering blissey, unlike chansey, has a respectable spa stat (not to mention how frail offensive ghosts are, bar gholdengo), and heal bell is a move more balanced and stall structures needed, and will need even more so with the home meta, (see sneasler etc). Add in tera (and the ability to run heavy duty boots), in case u need to check either psyshock spammers (if/ tera psychic) or specially based weather abusers (if/ tera water), and u have a very consistrnt wall, for fatter builds
 

Finchinator

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Regarding Ground types, we are going to have an all-time competition for team slots, in my opinion. Landorus-T meets Great Tusk in a match of juggernauts with Ting Lu, Garchomp, Iron Treads (until Regieleki is banned), and potentially some new kids on the block fighting just to see some usage. I wonder if we will see some double Ground structures that use one offensively and the other in a utility role. This is the type of structural shit I geek out over personally.
 
Just recently made a post Zamazenta-H and I wanted to talk about the benefits that the newly added Heavy Slam could have over Iron Head on both formes.

:zamazenta: Zamazenta-H: Iron Head vs Heavy Slam

Turning down a 30% flinch on a mon with 138 speed can be tough, so are there enough pokemon that actually take increased damage from Heavy Slam for it to be worth it? Well, maybe.

Zamazenta-H weighs 210 kg

Dragapult
Enamorus-I
Blissey
Volcarona
Glimmora
Sneasler
Greninja
Breloom
H-Decidueye
Iron Moth
Iron Valiant
Cinderace
Meowscarada
Gholdengo
Azumarill
Pelipper
Talonflame
Hawlucha
Brute Bonnet
H-Lilligant
Amoonguss
Scream Tail
Hatterene

Polteageist

So it turns out all the good fairies in the tier are really light, but does that make even make a meaningful difference? Well yes, Heavy Slam makes a banded OHKO possible on Scream Tail and Hatterene as well as allowing for unboosted OHKOs on Iron Valiant and Enamorus-I. Essentially, Heavy Slam hits a lot of the things you are likely running a Steel move for harder. Does that make it better than the flinch? idk.

:zamazenta crowned: Zamazenta-C: Behemoth Bash vs Heavy Slam

And now for the one with an actual Steel STAB. Behemoth Bash is a 100 BP Physical Steel move with 8 PP while Heavy Slam has 16 PP. Instead of listing the pokemon that take 120 BP, I'll just list the ones that take 80 or less from Heavy Slam.

Zamazenta-C weighs 785 kg

-- 80 BP --
Tyranitar
Dragonite
Zamazenta-H
Baxcalibur
Dondozo
Clodsire
Garganacl
Iron Treads
-- 60 BP --
Walking Wake
Ursaluna
Hippowdon
Great Tusk
Skeledirge
H-Goodra
Roaring Moon
Iron Hands
-- 40 BP --
Heatran
Hoopa-Unbound
Ting-Lu
Zamazenta-C, duh
Glastrier

The only really notable differences in terms of pokemon you would actively target with a Steel move is that Behemoth Bash has a chance to outright OHKO Baxcalibur and can 2HKO Garganacl. Also interestingly enough, all but one of the pokemon that would take 40 BP from Heavy Slam are weak to your Fighting STAB. Every pokemon not listed either takes as much or more damage from Heavy Slam than Behemoth Bash.

---

So yea, if this question was keeping you a night, there you go. Heavy Slam is better in some situations and worse in others, wow.
 
Who do we think is gonna be the first mon HOME mon banned to Ubers?

It's gotta be between Eleki, Magearna and Zama-C. They're the ones that strike me as the most game-breaking potentially - I haven't played HOME meta just yet though, just based on theory.
 
I disagree on this one. A set with heal bell, seismic toss, shadow ball, softboiled is great all round. Seismic toss is consistent damage (more than many other walls can achieve), shadow ball is a means to nail most ghost types (bar h-zoroark), considering blissey, unlike chansey, has a respectable spa stat (not to mention how frail offensive ghosts are, bar gholdengo)
Idk about that, 75 spa was respectable in like gen 2 but now its dreadful especially with a 80bp non-stab. It genuinely does 20% to spdef ceruledge and skeledirge, and 35 to gholdengo. so its still walked all over by basically every ghost in the tier. These are all the ghosts in the tier bar zoro which is immune and dragapult who is barely 3hkod. It might find some viability but "pressuring" is not a word it can claim
 

Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
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Who do we think is gonna be the first mon HOME mon banned to Ubers?

It's gotta be between Eleki, Magearna and Zama-C. They're the ones that strike me as the most game-breaking potentially - I haven't played HOME meta just yet though, just based on theory.
I mean the council can quickban multiple mons at a time, but to answer your question I would probably say it looks like this:

Magearna > Zamazenta-Crowned > Regieleki
 
If this truly is the end of Lando, It'll be hilarious that a form of Donphan of all mons was the one to take him down.
Either way Lando will certainly go down as probably the best competetive pokemon ever. With the accelerated power creep of modern gens, I don't think anything else will manage 4 gens of dominance in singles and double like that again.
Maybe second most (behind tyrantitar) but yeah you have a good point.
 
Now I see why Houndstone has a tombstone on its head.
It represents it's usage rate without Last Respects.
A last respect indeed. RIP Doggo, we barely knew ye.

I'm most excited about H-Liligant. Our gal finally has an offensive movepool even if she had to... fight for it :psysly:
 
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly.
Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground.
The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans think is impossible.
Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black.
Ooh, black and yellow!
Let's shake it up a little.
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