Hi PU, there's a metagame thread now and thats AWESOME!! But let's get right to the content cuz this post is gonna be long, today I come to you as a representative of a PU research project started by Me and a few other awesome and dedicated helpers, with further ado let's get to the mons.
The start of the round of mons was...Kingdra! A mon I actually requested and then promptly couldn't participate on.
(
Shadow Crystal )Crystal:
Kingdra is a mon that I had high expectations for when I began the reasearch and it was absolutely terrible to my experience. Its stats and movepool are simply too powercrept by the tier standards. I tried 3 sets for kingdra those being focus energy+agility offensive DD and physically defensive rest DD and all those sets where simply put inconsistent. It required too much setup to do actual dmg. Offensive DD simply doesnt have bulk required to do that and will just lose to stuff like bellibolt and wo-chien. Agility focus energy is stomped by things like florges and wo chien (again) and is just not strong enough to my liking. It is ok when it gets both crit increase and +2 speed but it just has numerous flaws. Being walled by whimsicot for instance is not at ALL ideal but whims is not really at the top of meta so its manageable. The real issue is it simply doesnt OHKO things like sp.def wo chien and florges and those mons really do annoy dra (whether koing with moonblast or knocking of scope lens and basically ur entire setup is now a waste). This is all considering how hard its for kingdra to get 2 turns to setup and still be in a position to sweep. DD dra was just awful. Offensive DD was just straight up garbage it was too weak and too slow to do dmg. Bulky dra felt really nice with DD but that was mostly cuz it has a good mu into k9 and it needs legit 6 DD to do great consistent dmg. If dra had victory dance it would be a different story but it doesnt and that makes this set so much more inconsistent. Overall I felt really did not enjoy using kingdra and always I felt that place was better utilized by a better mon like cram or qwil for bulky water and scrafty or even Dragon Dance Altaria and Flapple would have been better for DD wincons since a lot of the times when I was staring at opponent with that +5 dra I felt dd alt could had gotten +5 a lot quicker and could have done it cleaner like vs smthn like belli.I am not at all saying DD alt is even *viable* but I personally felt it would have been better in many cases I got dra to +5 and dra had NOT a single sweep even after all that work. It simply is too slow too weak and due to how much setup it needs, too frail. In vaccum its a viable mon but in practice it just sucks and its really hard to not use other better options u can choose from. The only thing I can see for it is if rain teams pick up steam and its good on rain ofc. (whats more iconic than kingdra and rain) but until then this mon is just meme pick. Overall Kingdra is not truly terrible pick but its just a bad mon that there is no real reason to be used unless u want to use it because u like it and not anything else. The stringent comp it faces with mons (especially tatsugiri nullifying the otherwise solid specs set) is absolutely horrible aswell. Overall my gradings for dra are:
Defensive : C
Offensive: C-
Utility: D+
Overall C-
(
VyoletRayn)Vy:
I don't really know where to start, Kingdra looks promising, or at least, that's what someone who doesn't know about it would say, because one thing for sure is that Kingdra is plain bad.
There's no way around it, it's one of the mons that suffers the most from 4 moveslots syndrome, you always need another move to be actually reliable with kingdra.
Movepool is already limited but even with the few options that it has you can't really make your mind on what to run, you'll either need a tremendous amount of setup, or an outrageous amount of support to make it *playable*, not even viable.
The only niche set that could do something would be CritDra, but even then, you need a turn of setup and will still miss some crucial KOs
Stat wise, it's poor, it's not enough, it's never enough, you'll always miss some important rolls, you'll never be bulky enough, fast enough and powerful enough with enough setup
Dragon Dance sounded interesting so that's what I rushed into and honestly : it's even worse than you could imagine, not getting some KOs at +3 is something almost unheard of, you can't really achieve anything with it, adding the lack of coverage to it and you're done for
Kingdra is just too weak for PU, seeing a king falling from such a low throne is hard enough to revoke its title and call it Dra
Defensive : C
Offensive : D
Utility : D
Overall : UR/D(both were provided)
(
Corvy)Corvy:
Well it's Kingdra. It suffers massively from being a third evo introduced in gen 2. Like my siblings in christ, wtf are these stats supposed to achieve on their own? Decent bulk at 95/95 but mediocre HP at 75. 95/95 SpA and Attack would've been decent 25 years ago but sadly we live in 2025. We don't have access to damp rock or good rain setters/teams that would want Kingdra with them, so swift swim already kinda falls flat. Specs sets with swift swim seem nice, until you realize that we have Florges here which just absolutely annihilates this sad excuse of a pokemon. After that you go "Well I'll go sniper with Agility, Focus energy for 100% crits", and yeah, it's fun, but then you realize "Damn 95/95 ain't bulky enough to tank shit if it wants to kill anything post boost". I've pulled off a bunch of sweeps with it, yes, but most of them were by aggro leading it into teams I knew weren't prepared for it. It was a miracle 1/10 match type thing that'd only happen in low ladder, and frankly if it happened anywhere else this mon wouldn't be ranked as low as it has been all gen long.
It's a disappointing mess of a pokemon that doesn't know exactly what it wants to do with its stats or movepool, which is very common in earlier gens. The utility it gets is also very negligible. To its credit it does have Scald and Flip turn which you can do stuff with, but we got way better pivots in the tier and better scalders like Lanturn, which is also kind of not that great.
As a bulky mon it lacks the consistent and reliable recovery it wants. It got all it needs to thrive other than the actual survival factor to do its job.
All in all I'm disappointed, and my week's been ruined. /j
Gradings:
Offensively: C
Defensively: C
Utility: C
Overall: UR since it doesn't thrive ANYWHERE
(
Oofhixd)Oof:
Kingdra is a mon that looks good in a vacuum. First off, water/dragon is a great type, and it has reasonable stats across the board, the key word being: reasonable. None of kingdras stats go above 95 let alone the 100 benchmark, and its speed is average at best. One of the 2 main issues with this mon tho, is it needs 2 turns to set up, be it agility+focus energy, or two dds. Chances are that its gonna get killed by then and not get any value. The other main issue is 4mss. 4mss really limits kdra since it only has 2/3 move slots depending on what youre gonna use, whilst having a great movepool, and unfortunately, with 95 in each attacking stat, 2 moves just arent gonna cut it. Even if you are gonna set up, there really isnt any guarantee youll get much value. At +5, waterfall is only doing 60% to hound, which isnt even a very bulky mon. I will say that this mon has some merits being a water type, but overall its outclassed in every role it has. Its a UR from me.
Gradings:
Offensively: C-
Defensively: C
Utility: E
Overall: D+
(Bro gave this thing an E oml..)
As mentioned I didn't get to do much more than a handful of tests with this mon myself so I'll just take these esteemed soldiers word for it sucking so bad, overall ranking was UR for kindra, we weren't a fan I guess.
Onto the next mon we did, Primeape!
Whom appeared to be much better received than the fake king above us.
(
VyoletRayn)Vy:
Primeape, more like Ape Prime
This one I wanted to do for a bit, and lads, I'm glad I've built around it.
Overall it already looks promising regarding its acceptable bulk with eviolite, a nice setup set although predictable, can be a niche pick already to play around and surprise unprepared teams.
Now onto the real thing, throughout my tests I've come to this result : its best set is scarf and it's not even close in my opinion.
As it is, one would compare it to passimian, and rightfully so, passimian has more atk, and knock off to its belt, but Primeape's speed tier is SO interesting, having the jump on some key target while also carrying defiant makes it more reliable than passimian. being able to outspeed +1 tatsu, scarf bruxish while being able to threaten them with pivot or good damage output even with 15 less atk is so valuable in a meta where fast sweepers are more than common, making it a great pick against those, also when you can yourself sweep with the ape.
What Primeape has more than passimian is coverage, it might sound easy to say it, but it makes it so much more slappable on more teams as you can change the set to actually complete the team as you see fit.
With lots of intimidate in the tier, some parting shots here and there and most importantly, defoggers, primeape gets a lot of switch-ins and can make uses of each one of them, bringing in a lot of tempo and power at the same time
Side notes : before torterra quickban, primeape was able to outspeed +2 torterra and threaten it/force tera on it with U-turn
You can even go for a simple set with CC, earthquake, one punch & u-turn, while 2 of the moves are changeable, CC and U-turn are mandatory in order to function properly as a breaking scarfer.
Utility wise it's a bit weird to use but it has everything it needs, Taunt, Encore, U-turn, even stealth rocks for some hazards pressure, not the most reliable as you'd need eviolite to make those moves reliable.
A really great mon to use, a pleasure to build around, it facilitates the process and can be so reliable, I tend to think that Primeape might be one of the secret powerhouse so far
here's a funny replay with it :
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2280485423-scekg9k1ivhr11g94a18rqqu2bve9qupw
Gradings :
Offense : A
Defense : B-
Utility : B-
Overall : B
(
Shadow Crystal)Crystal:
Primeape has become one of the most enjoyable and effective Pokémon to use in the tier following the recent shifts. Among its various sets, the Choice Scarf set stands out as a personal favorite. While the Bulk Up Rage Fist set has potential, it struggles to perform consistently due to the lack of Leftovers recovery, vulnerability to status, and a Knock Off weakness despite its resistance to Dark. In contrast, the Scarf set combines excellent utility, speed, and offensive presence.
So I will mention the Strengths of Choice Scarf Primeape:
Superior Speed Tier:
Primeape's base 95 Speed allows it to outpace significant threats like +1 Tatsugiri, Choice Scarf Bruxish and Rotom-Heat, Hisuian Electrode, and even +1 offensive Quiver Dance Oricorio-Baile. This makes it an excellent option for revenge killing and cleaning late-game.
Exceptional Coverage:
Primeape boasts an array of strong coverage moves:
Stone Edge: Stronger than Passimian's Rock Slide, enabling it to secure key OHKO on physically defensive Oricorio-Baile(pass rock slide fails) and 2HKO Altaria.
Elemental Punches: Ice Punch is particularly valuable against Torterra(before the ban), Venusaur, and Golurk, while still providing coverage against other threats.
Gunk Shot: Essential for dealing with Florges(mainly) and other Tera Fairy mons.
Earthquake: Effectively handles offensive checks like Salazzle and Toxtricity.
Throat Chop: Provides reliable coverage for Psychic- and Ghost-types like Hoopa and Golurk.
The access to U-turn transforms Primeape into a pivoting powerhouse, allowing it to maintain offensive pressure and chip away at checks like Hoopa and Uxie while supporting team momentum and this is what truly makes it almost competitive with Tauros-blaze.
The Defiant ability is invaluable, turning Intimidate, Defog, and Parting Shot into opportunities to boost Primeape's Attack and apply pressure against utility-focused teams.
While less consistent than Scarf, a Choice Band set with Tera Fighting offers incredible wallbreaking power, with few answers outside of Houndstone at +2
So here comes the most obvious qustion, why not Passimian instead?
While Passimian has advantages like higher base Attack (+15) and access to Knock Off, Primeape's higher Speed and superior coverage give it a distinct niche. Stone Edge's raw power, Ice Punch's utility, and Primeape's ability to outspeed crucial threats make it a compelling choice despite Passimian's bulk and offensive prowess.
Limitations:
Primeape does face challenges in certain roles and is by no means perfect:
Bulk Up Rage Fist sets are hindered by Knock Off weakness, lack of reliable recovery, and susceptibility to status.
Scarf sets demand careful prediction, especially when relying on moves like Gunk Shot or Stone Edge which can miss and is very annoying thus.
Despite its unique tools, Primeape often competes with Passimian and more importantly Tauros-blaze for a team slot, which can affect its viability depending on team composition.
Overall, Scarf Primeape is an incredibly versatile and powerful option in the current metagame. Its speed, coverage, and ability to maintain momentum make it a standout choice for teams needing reliable revenge killing and offensive pressure.
Overall Rankings:
Offensive: A
Defensive:B
Utility:C+
Overall: B+
(
Corvy)Corvy:
I seem to not be as high on the ape as everyone else is, which is ironic considering I'm the guy who loves all monki mons.
I think it's pretty decent as a scarfer and definitely chips well, causing nuisances to the opponent's team, but that's all it is in my eyes; a minor nuisance. Against most mon you have to opt for u-turn over stab or coverage as you will almost certainly get the shit kicked out of you in return for 60% of your opp's hp.
The coverage it has is nice, I won't hate on it, however that being said I will now proceed to hate on it.
The elemental punches while nice coverage are too weak imo to be considered consistent threats to anything, while gunk shot and stone edge have dogwater accuracy. The damage output is not consistent and outside of CC this mon kinda struggles to output great damage in my opinion.
Another issue for me is the lack of knock off. Yes, it has throat chop, but that is a bandaid fix, where rly this mon would thrive hard if it had knock over it, letting it actually overtake the marsupial as a scarf fighter.
All that being said, I do not think this is a bad mon by any means, I just feel like it's not as good/splashable as the others. I've had decent success while testing it and feel like it definitely has a spot in the meta.
Being able to gunk shot a scarf florg or throat chop a scarf Toxt is massive value. Outspeeding a scarf bruxish is also a huge benefit this mon has over almost any other mon. Once those mons aren't used on the enemy team I felt like the ape had issues doing anything meaningful for me.
The other set I tried was the classic bulk up rage fist build, which has been around since Annihilape was born in November 2022.
It did ok, but was noticably worse than scarf ape. There is too many threats in the tier for Primeape to set up reliably.
Aside from these points I'll adress the ability which primeape should use. Defiant or bust. Yes it is predictable and will be played around by any Non-AI opponent (not often seen on ladder but alas), but it lets you predict your opponent easier by cutting down the options they can feasibly select in any turn, unless they want to risk a +1 Primeape or potential +3 Ape to beat their fav mon. I will count this slightly towards its utility rating, as it is imo an aggressive version of Flame Body/Static; it punishes an opponent for trying to decrease your damage output, while those two abilities punish you for trying to progress the gamestate.
All in all it's a good mon, hasn't blown me off my socks though.
Offensive: B
Defensive: C+
Utility: B-
Overall: B
(
Oofhixd)Oof:
Hmmm, i guess its time. I love primeape first and foremost, so no hard feelings here. But overall its just held back by so many things. The first thing its held back by are the multitude of viable fighting types. Let me list every fighting on the VR. Redbull, hecid, pawmot, scrafty, yama, heasel, viri, pass, emboar, hlee. (Honourable mention to hchan). All of these mons compete with the ape in one way or another. Redbull, heasel, viri and pawmot all outspeed it, whilst having a helpful secondary stab, and also dishing out significant damage. This mon has 2 sets, scarf: (which is outclassed by pawmot scarf), and BU: (which is outclassed by redbull BU). Not only that, but this mon is also held back so significantly by its stats. Im sorry but a 455 BST isnt cutting it in a tier with mons which are usually 490-520 BST. If you compare the only mon thats classed as PU which has a BST lower than it, its not a fair comparison, since alolaslash has 25 in its attacking stat its not using, whilst primeape has 60. If you reduce primeape to having 25 in its attacking stat thats its not using, you see that its BST is a measly 430, which is significantly lower than alolaslash. Now, onto that attack stat. 105 is uhhhh good i guess? Its by no means excellent, and its barely scraping whats considered great in this tier. Now lets list off all mons with a higher attack stat in PU, that have a relevant niche (B- or higher) Glastrier, copperajah, rhydon, havalugg, brutus, muds, golurk, grimm, yama, pass, lyc, pawm, hecid, k9, hoopa, redbull, tort (now banned) and sandaconda. You also have zoro, brux, float and mesp at the same BST. Thats a ridiculous 18/19 mons (depending on torr), that outdamage it that are on the VR ON JUST THE PHYSICAL SIDE! Alot of these mons also outspeed ape, making them faster scarf options. Some of these mons are also fighting types, having the same stab options as it. You know what mon fits into ALL of these categories? Redbull. Honestly, redbull outclasses in this mon in so many ways.
Ok now onto the positives of this mon, which surprisingly, are many. First off, its coverage is just brilliant. Uturn, stone edge, elemental punches, rage fist, outrage, poison jab, seed bomb and throat chop. Thats coverage for 10/18 types (even tho it struggles from 4mss), which is insane type coverage. The two sets that this mon can run are scarf and BU. The good thing about scarf is its outspeeding everything except faster scarfers 105 base attack is really nice (granted not amazing), and can deal alot of damage with cc. The other set, and my personal favourite, is BU. The standard BU set is evio, defiant, cc, bu, rfist and uturn. This moveset is really nice because at +1 the amounts of damage are extraordinary, and its pretty fast. Speaking of defiant, have i mentioned it? Defiant is one of the best abilities in the game, meaning that having k9 or redbull switch in on it is lethal, or having this mon switch into a defog, so you have time to take this threat out quickly. Theres one thing i forgot to mention in the weaknesses, the reliability on its team. This mon needs so much support. It either needs sr+ spikes or webs, a hwish mon, 6 other mons that arent total tera hogs, and removal. The amount of support required holds this mon back alot. Overall though, i think that the positives and the negatives are very much things to take into account, and primeape is definitely a mon to consider for your team!
Gradings:
Offensively: A-
Defensively: B
Utility: C+
Overall: B-
Final thoughts:
Again my life's been hectic and riddled with illness so I didn't get enough evidence to make a full post, but as probably the biggest passimian truther for this metagame, I must disagree with any assertion made here that ape is better than it. That being said I see value in this mon as well. From what I can gather the overwhelming consensus places this silly tail-less monkey in B tier.(albeit this isn't a VR post and these are simply pre-emptive ratings)
Thank you for reading this college essa-i mean post. As always you can find me on basically all smogon servers under the name philip/phip/etc. Feel free to contact me if you'd like to join.
Goodnight PU, see you soon.
ok this mon is just insane. Special bulk which is similar to that of a regi, removal, and pivot moves. This mon is the ultimate utility mon whilst still being really bulky. This mon eats hits from special threats, and has a decent enough spa stat to deal some damage. Oh yeah, the qd dance set, that exists too, ig. I mean its fine… but id rather use other qd mons or even weird set up mons like veluza. This mon lands itself in A for me, but the qd set is more like a C/C- set.
another removal mon huh? This mon is good but not amazing. It has the ability to set rocks which is nice ig? But there are much better rocks setter and this mon is better in other roles namely, a removal sweeper. This mon will try and rspin once to remove hazards and make its speed somewhat bearable, and then sd to deal massive damage. This is hindered by this mon having a very mediocre offensive typing pair though, being ice and steel. These two types do not work well together. The type combination struggles to hit fire and steel types which, fire especially are super prevalent types rn. But other than that, this mon is a potent threat and lands itself in B+ for me.
fast and frail sweeper, finally fitting what this type was intended to do… the speed tier of 115 is super, only being outsped by whims, lazzle and helectrode. This mon is great with cb sets and sd sets, being able sweep through lots of teams, only things that hold this mon back are its weak defensive typing, its frailty and its and the fact that heasel exists, overall it lands itself in the top of B for me.
this mon is super weird, but absolutely has to be respected. Its base attack stat is absolutely nothing to scoff at, but its held back sm by its speed. Overall i really dont have much to say about this mon, the stat spread says it all, overall it lands itself in B.
old HO lead ig. Fine spikesetter and can be really tricky with destiny bond. The attacking sets dont really work well as its base 70 in both. Overall its a high B- mon, but outclassed by lycanroc. 
this mon just feels like worse alolaslash. At least it deals more damage and is so bulky on the physical side, it can live a cc usually. But yeah this mon is meh, not much else to say. B- 
this mon is basically stall exclusive, and only runs 4 moves ever, no variety whatsoever in its set, its really predictable, nevertheless its a good mon. Low B-
Kingdra - Ive seen a few Kingdras being used, but its really rare. The CritDra set is extremely efficient, even though it has a niche almost exclusively in HO teams. Still, it’s possible to use sets like Scale Shot or even Scarf effectively.
Emboar - Honestly, Ive never seen an Emboar used in PU tournaments since it was banned from ZU. Its a good Pokémon with interesting potential to explore, as its a reliable wallbreaker and can be used as a Scarfer, Band, or even a Sub + 3 Attacks set. It has decent coverage and can break through most of the main walls we have at the moment.
Houndstone - Houndstone was very popular during the hazard stack meta, but after that, it just disappeared. It has defensive potential, as we all know, but I’d like to highlight its offensive potential. Poltergeist, priority, Play Rough is an excellent moveset, combined with a decent (though not outstanding) base atk stat that can be boosted with a Spell Tag or even used as a critical Choice Band user. I dont think its as effective as the two mentioned above, but Id like to see it being useful again.
persian-alola 
Klawf 
WOWZA this baby is POWERFUL! easily the most standout of the new additions as specs tera fire eruption does 50 to max HP milotic and basically grabs a kill every time it comes in. Hazards are going to be significantly more important to limit this guy's opportunities as on boots it doesn't quite hit the nearly unwallable damage numbers with eruption that specs can get.
With how the meta has a lot of specially offensive threats, AV on this thing is very nice to have as a nice pivot into a lot of them and adaptability dracos and sludge waves are no joke either. Copper leaving means less steels for this thing to deal with too. Flip turn is also so nice to have to pivot out of pokemon that'd beat it like ground types and bring in something like Bruxish or the eruption machine to grab a free kill.
Dropped at a very good time with how the eruption machine is being a menace. Needs spdef investment to not eat half from tera fire specs eruption but it is as solid as a check to that thing can get. Flip turn is also great to have and so is recover on a wall and on top of that, competitive is very fun when facing moonblasts and webs.
Welcome back. With AV it can also help in the effort of spdef mons and honestly has a lot of set variety between AV, calm mind sets, slack off 3 attacks mixed or special, and even stuff like trick room. 
I'm sure we'll find ways to adapt it to work but right now it just can't seem to catch a break. The hazard setters just kinda beat it one on one and it's easy to wall it as well as lure it. Specs is def not the way to go rn.
Man, we kinda need you in special attack meta. NU is having so much fun with it.
