Metagame SV RU Metagame Discussion (April Shifts, see post #191)

[carbonlifeform]

You're not about to say "Will-O may not hit so don't bank on that!!!" when your whole argument with Rev is "it flinches 30% of the time!!!".

Wanted to point out that "Your otherwise winning strategy has a 15% chance of losing" is very different than "Your otherwise losing strategy has a 30% chance of winning" in terms of risk/reward.

In general, I think that Vroom is probably only as broken as HO as a whole, and in particular the current dominant strategy of overloading physical sweepers. Vroom loves HO in general because, when it doesn't need to find a chance to switch in (and likely eat two hits), its typing makes it trivially easy to find an opening to Shift Gear. Meanwhile, running 4 stupidly powerful physical sweepers together means blanket checks aren't enough to stop it. The only reason for Vroom to be facing down a full health Hippo is because it's wearing it down to help a partner run away with the game.

I'm not sure if Vroom requires immediate action, though, since Jugulis feels like the lynchpin to this style of HO. Its combination of speed tier, power, and coverage (and hax) are what make it feasible to run as the sole special attacker on these teams, enabling this ability to just load up physical sweepers next to it. I think that if Jugulis goes, HO is going to need to diversify a lot more, which should actually make it easier to build around naturally, since the problem right now isn't that you need to account for Vroom, Gapdos, Leaves, Maus, Gyarados, and Salamence. It's that you need to account for Vroom AND Gapdos AND Leaves AND Maus AND Gyarados AND Salamence, which means your team risks being shit into anything that isn't this one flavor of HO.

In related news, I want to plug utility Cresselia as my latest answer to a lot of these threats. As I noted with Utility Flygon earlier, Tera Steel + Levitate answers a LOT of stuff in this tier, except Cress actually has bulk and recovery.

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 168 HP / 152 Def / 188 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Moonlight
- Psychic
- Thunder Bolt / Ice Beam / Lunar Dance

+1 252+ Atk Revavroom Iron Head vs. 168 HP / 152 Def Tera Steel Cresselia: 81-96 (19.1 - 22.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Cresselia Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Revavroom: 106-126 (35.2 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

SpD EVs ensure that Jugulis doesn't 2HKO after rocks pre-tera, but running more physdef with Helmet might be a more optimal choice (especially if you lack good Maus answers).

Last move slot has been a tossup for me. I'm a sucker for HWish/Lunar Dance, and it's a great option to help seal a win when you no longer need Cress around to sponge hits and spread para, but it leaves you as dead weight into Taunt Jugulis. In terms of second attacks, Ice Beam carries more overall utility, but TBolt keeps you from being dead weight into something that clicks Tera Steel late match.

 

[shooting star]

I would like to see these Paradox mons quickbanned by the end of the month should there be any more slates. Iron Jugulis outspeeds many mons after Booster Energy and is able to run a plethora of sets to overwhelm its would-be checks, from Tera Ground Earth Power to block Volt Switch and hit Steels, Taunt to stallbreak, Work Up + Acrobatics/Hurricane to wallbreak, and Meteor Beam under Electric Terrain to gain an Attack Boost. RNG also helps a lot since the secondary effects of Dark Pulse and Hurricane have a 100% proc rate and can more often than not render your so-called checks immobile. Granted that it can only run 4 moves at any point in time but that is hardly an issue given its efficiency in getting the job done. Defensively it is no slouch either, since Life Orb Ice Shard Mamoswine for example doesn't even KO after Stealth Rock from full.

After Iron Jugulis goes, Iron Leaves, which is already borderline broken, would have lost another offensive check. Tera Fighting SD / Leaf Blade / Psyblade / CC has little counterplay since at +2 it 2HKO almost everything bar ID+BP Cobalion, which while definitely a great mon it feels necessary on every BO team so as not to lose to Iron Leaves. Iron Leaves can also Tera Electric or Fire to be immune to T Wave and Wisp respectively and suddenly your Rotom becomes a sitting duck.

Overall, while this tier is definitely not HO only, it doesn't change the fact that HO will continue to be spammed because everybody likes to earn points quickly in RULT. HO also feels cheap to use due to the immediate Speed boost from Booster Energy, which is unheard of in previous gens where HO mons require a turn to set up. Banning these 2 mons helps in promoting tier diversity since it opens up more Grounds and Waters such as Donphan, Krookodile, Rhyperior, Slowbro, etc that can check Revavroom, Maushold and other HO mons such as Gyarados, Feraligatr, Salamence etc, while at the same time besides Gengar, other scarfers such as Mienshao, Infernape, Azelf will become great again at revenge-killing these HO mons.

 

[Feliburn]

Hello!

Following all the posts and comments in both the forums and the discord, the council decided to hold a vote on the following Pokémon:



These were deemed to be, by the community, the current most annoying Pokémon to handle building & gameplay wise in the SV RU tier.

Feel free to join the RU discord for a more casual discussion about the slate and the Pokémon discussed.

Here are the results:

Votes

Iron Jugulis is now banned from SV RU. Tagging Marty & dhelmise to implement this ban. Thanks in advance.

We'll keep monitoring the tier closely to see potential threats that will pick up in usage with the Iron Jugulis ban.

 

[Bice]

Glad to see Iron Jugulis gone, but disappointed that Leaves dodged the banhammer. If anything, it'll be even more threatening as Jugulis was one of its best checks thanks to being able to outspeed it with Booster Energy. I do hope it is looked at again very soon.

 

[fluff!!]

Hello!

Following all the posts and comments in both the forums and the discord, the council decided to hold a vote on the following Pokémon:



These were deemed to be, by the community, the current most annoying Pokémon to handle building & gameplay wise in the SV RU tier.

Feel free to join the RU discord for a more casual discussion about the slate and the Pokémon discussed.

Here are the results:

Votes

Iron Jugulis is now banned from SV RU. Tagging Marty & dhelmise to implement this ban. Thanks in advance.

We'll keep monitoring the tier closely to see potential threats that will pick up in usage with the Iron Jugulis ban.

Excellent job from the council, I believe keeping the bans minimal is essential for a healthy tiering ecosystem and lets the metagame develop by itself. As stated by Bice the post before though, Iron Leaves may become an issue very quickly, I hope we will find answers to this upcoming new apex predator... although the issue may come from somewhere else...

To be continued.

 

[Sneakyplanner]

Moltres is one of the best mons in the tier, and I feel like there's a lot of optimization that can be done.
First of all, this is a message to stop using the following set:
Moltres
Ability: Flame Body
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
- Roost
It does nothing vs cyclizar, salamence, slowking and many other mons. Flamethrower+wisp just means that any special attacking fire resist can abuse you and it forces you to make aggressive predictions with u-turn. And of course slowking and cyclizar don't really care about being u-turned on unless you have another mon that really punishes them. The solution? Just run brave bird instead.

the future

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
- Roost

calcs

0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 184-217 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Enamorus-Therian: 118-141 (35.4 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
72 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gastrodon: 189-223 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 342-404 (116.7 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos-Galar: 284-336 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Okidogi: 230-272 (72.5 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If we're using this thing as fat talonflame, then we might as well copy it even more. Brave bird has a few big advantages over flamethrower.
-It does more damage than flamethrower.
-flying is better than fire
-It's not 70% accurate unlike moltres' other flying move.
-it's a physical move, which means it hits AV cyclizar and calm minders like enamorus harder.
-running a jolly nature means you ohko hoopa with u-turn
I switched from flamethrower and noticed that it's just way more consistent. you're helpless in fewer matchups, and threatening in more. Inverting your matchup vs cyclizar can singlehandedly win you games. The extra damage and physicality just kind of makes a lot of matchups smoother. Enamorus is a non-issue even when you're chipped, cyclizar no longer safely switches in, you can trade with gyarados, especially after burning it, you do big damage to gardevoir.

But we can do even better than fat talonflame, is wisp really all that necessary? I've never really thought it made or broke moltres, they still play around it even when you don't have it and you still get plenty of burns from flame body. We could use flare blitz to have a better matchup vs tinkaton, cobalion and bisharp, or we could get even more devious. Physical moltres can have problems with revavroom, bulk up zarude or a cobalion that gets some iron defense boosts and it doesn't do much vs hippowdon. That's where mixed moltres comes in.

serious cooking.

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Fire Blast
- Roost

calcs

0- SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 169-199 (40.2 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cobalion: 338-398 (104.6 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Registeel: 182-216 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zarude: 270-318 (76.9 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I've looked at the calcs, and I don't think that a jolly nature really hurts if you're using fire blast. You can ohko cobalion, you 2hko physdef registeel and still do respectable damage vs hippowdon. If you were running no speed and a bold nature then you could just run relaxed moltres, but even if you are running a speed-boosting nature, mixed moltres seems like a viable option. You lose out on wisp, but get all the fun of fire/flying coverage without having to gamble your sanity on hurricane hits.
Beyond the move choices, I'm surious if anyone else has any Moltres EV spreads that just work. I've been running enough speed to hit 288, but I'm curiosu how others who use slower speeds use moltres differently.

 

[Bruxish supremacy]

Moltres is one of the best mons in the tier, and I feel like there's a lot of optimization that can be done.
First of all, this is a message to stop using the following set:
Moltres
Ability: Flame Body
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
- Roost
It does nothing vs cyclizar, salamence, slowking and many other mons. Flamethrower+wisp just means that any special attacking fire resist can abuse you and it forces you to make aggressive predictions with u-turn. And of course slowking and cyclizar don't really care about being u-turned on unless you have another mon that really punishes them. The solution? Just run brave bird instead.

the future

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
- Roost

calcs

0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 184-217 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Enamorus-Therian: 118-141 (35.4 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
72 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gastrodon: 189-223 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 342-404 (116.7 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos-Galar: 284-336 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Okidogi: 230-272 (72.5 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If we're using this thing as fat talonflame, then we might as well copy it even more. Brave bird has a few big advantages over flamethrower.
-It does more damage than flamethrower.
-flying is better than fire
-It's not 70% accurate unlike moltres' other flying move.
-it's a physical move, which means it hits AV cyclizar and calm minders like enamorus harder.
-running a jolly nature means you ohko hoopa with u-turn
I switched from flamethrower and noticed that it's just way more consistent. you're helpless in fewer matchups, and threatening in more. Inverting your matchup vs cyclizar can singlehandedly win you games. The extra damage and physicality just kind of makes a lot of matchups smoother. Enamorus is a non-issue even when you're chipped, cyclizar no longer safely switches in, you can trade with gyarados, especially after burning it, you do big damage to gardevoir.

But we can do even better than fat talonflame, is wisp really all that necessary? I've never really thought it made or broke moltres, they still play around it even when you don't have it and you still get plenty of burns from flame body. We could use flare blitz to have a better matchup vs tinkaton, cobalion and bisharp, or we could get even more devious. Physical moltres can have problems with revavroom, bulk up zarude or a cobalion that gets some iron defense boosts and it doesn't do much vs hippowdon. That's where mixed moltres comes in.

serious cooking.

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Fire Blast
- Roost

calcs

0- SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 169-199 (40.2 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cobalion: 338-398 (104.6 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Registeel: 182-216 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zarude: 270-318 (76.9 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I've looked at the calcs, and I don't think that a jolly nature really hurts if you're using fire blast. You can ohko cobalion, you 2hko physdef registeel and still do respectable damage vs hippowdon. If you were running no speed and a bold nature then you could just run relaxed moltres, but even if you are running a speed-boosting nature, mixed moltres seems like a viable option. You lose out on wisp, but get all the fun of fire/flying coverage without having to gamble your sanity on hurricane hits.
Beyond the move choices, I'm surious if anyone else has any Moltres EV spreads that just work. I've been running enough speed to hit 288, but I'm curiosu how others who use slower speeds use moltres differently.

Noobs run bulky. Chad's run specs

 

[Bice]

I was inspired by my teambuilding experiments to talk about a Pokemon that isn't good, and is arguably a borderline noob-trap.

On paper, Suicune seems like an exceptionally irritating wall thanks to its excellent bulk, pure Water typing, and access to Calm Mind. It even has access to Roar in order to act as a surprise phazer against Pokemon that try to set up on it. It also helps that Suicune is legendary for being a huge annoyance wherever it went, be it with the legendary CroCune set or the less common but still potent VinCune set.
Unfortunately, Gen 9 is not like other gens, for better or for worse. In Suicune's case, it's definitely for the worst. Base 90 Special Attack just doesn't cut it anymore, leaving it passive compared to the many heavy hitters of the tier. Said heavy hitters also often force it to Rest or Protect, preventing it from making progress. By far Suicune's biggest issue right now is the amount of stuff that just doesn't care about Scald burns. Apart from bulky waters (special mention goes to Slowking, who can simply pivot out into a threat, and Volcanion, who is straight-up immune to Scald), there's Cyclizar (utility mon first and foremost, prefers Draco Meteor most of the time), Zarude (Bulk Up sets with Jungle Healing are becoming more popular as an anti-HO option), Special Salamence, and Reuniclus (who can win the CM wars with Psyshock), among others.

 

[carbonlifeform]

Moltres is one of the best mons in the tier, and I feel like there's a lot of optimization that can be done.
First of all, this is a message to stop using the following set:
Moltres
Ability: Flame Body
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
- Roost
It does nothing vs cyclizar, salamence, slowking and many other mons. Flamethrower+wisp just means that any special attacking fire resist can abuse you and it forces you to make aggressive predictions with u-turn. And of course slowking and cyclizar don't really care about being u-turned on unless you have another mon that really punishes them. The solution? Just run brave bird instead.

the future

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
- Roost

calcs

0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 184-217 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Enamorus-Therian: 118-141 (35.4 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
72 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gastrodon: 189-223 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 342-404 (116.7 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos-Galar: 284-336 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Moltres Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Okidogi: 230-272 (72.5 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If we're using this thing as fat talonflame, then we might as well copy it even more. Brave bird has a few big advantages over flamethrower.
-It does more damage than flamethrower.
-flying is better than fire
-It's not 70% accurate unlike moltres' other flying move.
-it's a physical move, which means it hits AV cyclizar and calm minders like enamorus harder.
-running a jolly nature means you ohko hoopa with u-turn
I switched from flamethrower and noticed that it's just way more consistent. you're helpless in fewer matchups, and threatening in more. Inverting your matchup vs cyclizar can singlehandedly win you games. The extra damage and physicality just kind of makes a lot of matchups smoother. Enamorus is a non-issue even when you're chipped, cyclizar no longer safely switches in, you can trade with gyarados, especially after burning it, you do big damage to gardevoir.

But we can do even better than fat talonflame, is wisp really all that necessary? I've never really thought it made or broke moltres, they still play around it even when you don't have it and you still get plenty of burns from flame body. We could use flare blitz to have a better matchup vs tinkaton, cobalion and bisharp, or we could get even more devious. Physical moltres can have problems with revavroom, bulk up zarude or a cobalion that gets some iron defense boosts and it doesn't do much vs hippowdon. That's where mixed moltres comes in.

serious cooking.

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Fire Blast
- Roost

calcs

0- SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 169-199 (40.2 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cobalion: 338-398 (104.6 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Registeel: 182-216 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zarude: 270-318 (76.9 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I've looked at the calcs, and I don't think that a jolly nature really hurts if you're using fire blast. You can ohko cobalion, you 2hko physdef registeel and still do respectable damage vs hippowdon. If you were running no speed and a bold nature then you could just run relaxed moltres, but even if you are running a speed-boosting nature, mixed moltres seems like a viable option. You lose out on wisp, but get all the fun of fire/flying coverage without having to gamble your sanity on hurricane hits.
Beyond the move choices, I'm surious if anyone else has any Moltres EV spreads that just work. I've been running enough speed to hit 288, but I'm curiosu how others who use slower speeds use moltres differently.

Biiig fan of mixed Moltres. My go-to Moltres set for a while has been mixed slow-pivot:

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: ???
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Roost
- Fire Blast
- Brave Bird
- U-turn

Also works great with the PhysDef and SpDef investment flipped, depending on your team needs, but PhysDef can do things like eat a +1 Vroom Gunk Shot or a +2 Iron Leaves Psyblade (if Booster Speed) and threaten a KO back. I've usually run Tera Dragon to keep the Fire and Grass resists while flipping the Water and Electric weaknesses. You can drop IVs if you want to under-speed more stuff for slow u-turns, or you can add a few Speed EVs to outrun uninvested Base 80s or fully invested Base 50s.

On an unrelated note (though possibly a good partner), I've really been loving Raikou lately. I think it was decent even with Jugulis in the tier, but I think it really benefits from the vacuum Jugulis left as a fast special attacker that can eat a hit in a pinch (sorry Gengar, Azelf, Zoroark-H, Infernape, Kilowattrel, et al).

I've mostly been running a Boots pivot with TBolt/Scald/Tera Blast Ice/Volt Switch. I generally think of Electric Types with TB Ice as a meme, but Raikou has the speed to avoid taking extra hits and/or to Volt Switch away from most attempts to knock its boots, mitigating Ice's terrible defensive typing. It does have to be wary of the omnipresent Cyclizar, so that sucks.

The other set that I think could be really good, but I haven't mucked with yet, is Scarf, due to its ability to outrun things like +1 Maus, Booster Speed Iron Leaves, +2 Gyarados, and Scarf...everything. Tera Ghost feels like the best bet here (can dodge Maus Pop Bomb and 2HKO with TBolt, OHKO Gengar/Munki/Armarogue with Shadow Ball, etc. etc. etc.). Finally, SubCM sets with TBolt + Scald feel fishy but potentially viable.

 

[Master Chief]

I don’t want to make a long post but I think zarude should be looked at in the next slate. With jug gone which was one of the better revenge killers and checks, BU tera zarude constrains counterplay quite a bit and often forces teams into really awkward situations where they need to crit it or defensively tera to phase it out which doesn’t translate to it dying. With knock and jungle healing zarude pivots in on a lot and can knock a lot of mons early game but often forces teams to play really awkwardly late game to make sure they have sufficient counterplay to not lose to it. The option to also forego jungle healing and run drain punch instead is perhaps less applicable in how you use it early in the game but makes it harder to an extent to also check vs things like ID coba. Another appealing aspect of Tera poison on it is that the slower grounds get power whipped and we don’t have strong and fast psychic coverage to properly ohko it apart from scarf hoopa and azelf both of which are exceedingly rare.

In summary I think zarude constrains building and forces quite conservative play to not lose to Tera BU and should be looked at or suspected given jugs departure and its prominence in the tier

 

[LBN]

Tier List

Tier list time. I'll be going over some specific noms / opinions and continue my Revavroom Agenda, as well as mention some other pokemon who are either slept on, unused, suck ass or are worth a note of discussion. (Tier List only ordered in S ranks)
https://sprites.pmdcollab.org/#/ PMD sprite credits are the link here btw

I think Zarude is in the conversations for being nutty once more. While i was originally a skeptic, I'm starting to understand more and more how goofy this mon can be. Bulk up sets with tera are incredibly dangerous and I've seen this thing 1v1 pokemon it has zero business going head to head with like why is this thing beating IDBP cobalions like why is that ok. Fezandipiti is... bad at the task because of tera poison and Moltres both hates knock and any burns applied are cleansed with Jungle healing so yea. There are ways to force its hand with things like Psyfangs Okidogi and Encore Tinkaton, but this is a scant few compared to the value it provides. That's just one set too, other options exist like SD Trailblaze, and Scarf, despite being less common. I'm not going to vouch for anything just yet since I want to try it out myself since embarassingly I haven't, but what I've seen this thing do is cause for concern.

...Alright let's talk about the elephant in the room. Hippowdon is a fantastic pokemon, there's no denying it. Fantastic longevity, solid rocker... and the most targetable and abusable mon we have in the tier right now. HO's have began focusing heavily on applying extreme pressure on Hippowdon with things partnered with Revavroom. I've personally used Minior for this, but other things like SD Lead Kleavor doing 70% with an X-Scissor, Draco DD Mence, Wood Hammer Mimikyus, everything about Thundurus-Therian, and I've been trying DD Taunt Iron Thorns to decent success aswell. This also ignores how truthfully what stops Revavroom from using Tera Flying itself? I think this overloading and Hippowdon being the primary if only "reliable" check to some of these is and will become more and more noticeable / problematic as time goes on. This will keep going until hippowdons give up and march in with fucking rock tombs to pop balloons / Tera flyers itself and just let Cobalion lay up the rocks. And by that point I think we've officially lost to the plot. The only reason I don't call it ass for this reason is because it's damn necessary alot of the time. It's tasked with ALOT and the range of mons it "handles" is extensive, which is why I find this dynamic a bit unhealthy. You already know my opinion on how to solve this is called nuking the Car, but I'll get to him (again), later.

Look at him he's so happy. Have I ever told yall I like minior well I really like minior. That aside I think this thing is pretty solid. It's another member of the Hippowdon Hater fanclub, and it does a good job of fucking with it. Being immune to EQ naturally, and having quality acrobatics especially with tera flying pushing it further, it can do silly shit like ohko a cobalion with it in the right form. I think it's a really valuable wincon and look at him he's so happy to be here can we use him more please? It's setup chances are.. acceptable, it's shields down lets it be status immune while the shell is up which is a plus, being able to target Cyclizar, Slowking (with tera), Muk-A, Hippowdon as a last mon, Donphan, and it's speed tier is amazing in the Meteor form. Please use him he's so adorable I want 20 of him.

This is the category i like to call "Lower tiered gas" Exeggutor-A sounds like a meme, but dragon / grass / fire coverage with OTR is actually pretty solid as an Anti-HO pick. Tera steel with Harvest Sitrus has good longevity and has opportunities to set the room up multiple times. Fezandipiti aside, switchins are pretty scarce to it. Iron Thorns is an HO mon with a niche of both it's defensive typing and having access to Taunt, giving it some ways to mess with Hippo, and can run balloon + taunt to completely abuse hippo ala revavroom. Wo-chien is an incredibly fat shithead that can do immense amount of lounging around while chipping down the right teams. Sylveon makes it name as a fairy type nuke, which is high in value as most of our steels are on the fake end. Competition with Enam-T exists but Sylveon has some reasons to pick it, namely pixilate and access to Wish to play team support if theres a check to it. Vileplume once again abuses every click of U-turn with a 30% chance to cripple the target, and with teams consisting of Cobal Cyclizar Molt Fezandipiti, this things value starts to show, especially with unrestricted sleep proc potential. Defensive value is also nice of course.

Best HO lead in the tier for free. It's strong, reliable at getting them up, can usually dent a mon you want if thats your pick, like CC into cobalion or +2 X-scissor into Hippo/Donphan etc. It's prone to counterleading from Terrakion, but that's something i find to be a niche cope set than something practical. Not much to add, it has variety like Trailblaze, SD, Tailwind, rock blast, QA, etc. Very nice.

I'll be honest I think both of these are very ass. I ranked Necrozma highly in part because i think it absolutely has potential, unlike slowbro. Slowbro right now is just... why not use a different water. We have slowking (for now), washtom, swampert, volcanion etc just use a different water type. It's better at checking revavroom sure but it's still meh at the job gunk does so fucking much. It's usable sure but I'm just not remotely a fan. I'm sure it'll get better though but for now imma hate.

Aand since its 12:30am im gonna wrap it up with this shit. Yeah this mon still busted lmao. Recently been teching Temper Flare on my Revavrooms, and have had the added benefit of 2 tapping Feli's orthworm for free as he greed spiked on it thinking he could actually check it with his "counter". I've also been using Tera flying, which has benefit of ignoring Hippowdon even after a balloon pop, so that's no longer sufficient counterplay either. Temper flare also messes with Tera Steel Washtoms if you can call the worlds most telegraphed emergency tera, Bronzong, and Forretrees as answer to it. Because truthfully you don't actually need tera ground or HHP, it's nice but Temper Flare does alot of the same things, with added benefits. Note how revavroom can just choose to ignore these counterplay with a minor change and you gotta just hold that? Yeah me too. Incineroar and Moltres move nicely until the holy spirit known as Tera Fire sends both packing to a 1 way trip to Dubai. The moment the people abandon the notion that Revavroom is beholden to one set, the quicker we can get this mon up outta here. Try changing around what tera types and moveslots it uses and you'll see this mon just isn't ok.

 

[Serviperhater]

Tier List

View attachment 607072

Tier list time. I'll be going over some specific noms / opinions and continue my Revavroom Agenda, as well as mention some other pokemon who are either slept on, unused, suck ass or are worth a note of discussion. (Tier List only ordered in S ranks)
https://sprites.pmdcollab.org/#/ PMD sprite credits are the link here btw

View attachment 607075
I think Zarude is in the conversations for being nutty once more. While i was originally a skeptic, I'm starting to understand more and more how goofy this mon can be. Bulk up sets with tera are incredibly dangerous and I've seen this thing 1v1 pokemon it has zero business going head to head with like why is this thing beating IDBP cobalions like why is that ok. Fezandipiti is... bad at the task because of tera poison and Moltres both hates knock and any burns applied are cleansed with Jungle healing so yea. There are ways to force its hand with things like Psyfangs Okidogi and Encore Tinkaton, but this is a scant few compared to the value it provides. That's just one set too, other options exist like SD Trailblaze, and Scarf, despite being less common. I'm not going to vouch for anything just yet since I want to try it out myself since embarassingly I haven't, but what I've seen this thing do is cause for concern.

View attachment 607077
...Alright let's talk about the elephant in the room. Hippowdon is a fantastic pokemon, there's no denying it. Fantastic longevity, solid rocker... and the most targetable and abusable mon we have in the tier right now. HO's have began focusing heavily on applying extreme pressure on Hippowdon with things partnered with Revavroom. I've personally used Minior for this, but other things like SD Lead Kleavor doing 70% with an X-Scissor, Draco DD Mence, Wood Hammer Mimikyus, everything about Thundurus-Therian, and I've been trying DD Taunt Iron Thorns to decent success aswell. This also ignores how truthfully what stops Revavroom from using Tera Flying itself? I think this overloading and Hippowdon being the primary if only "reliable" check to some of these is and will become more and more noticeable / problematic as time goes on. This will keep going until hippowdons give up and march in with fucking rock tombs to pop balloons / Tera flyers itself and just let Cobalion lay up the rocks. And by that point I think we've officially lost to the plot. The only reason I don't call it ass for this reason is because it's damn necessary alot of the time. It's tasked with ALOT and the range of mons it "handles" is extensive, which is why I find this dynamic a bit unhealthy. You already know my opinion on how to solve this is called nuking the Car, but I'll get to him (again), later.

View attachment 607080
Look at him he's so happy. Have I ever told yall I like minior well I really like minior. That aside I think this thing is pretty solid. It's another member of the Hippowdon Hater fanclub, and it does a good job of fucking with it. Being immune to EQ naturally, and having quality acrobatics especially with tera flying pushing it further, it can do silly shit like ohko a cobalion with it in the right form. I think it's a really valuable wincon and look at him he's so happy to be here can we use him more please? It's setup chances are.. acceptable, it's shields down lets it be status immune while the shell is up which is a plus, being able to target Cyclizar, Slowking (with tera), Muk-A, Hippowdon as a last mon, Donphan, and it's speed tier is amazing in the Meteor form. Please use him he's so adorable I want 20 of him.

View attachment 607081 View attachment 607082 View attachment 607083 View attachment 607084 View attachment 607085
This is the category i like to call "Lower tiered gas" Exeggutor-A sounds like a meme, but dragon / grass / fire coverage with OTR is actually pretty solid as an Anti-HO pick. Tera steel with Harvest Sitrus has good longevity and has opportunities to set the room up multiple times. Fezandipiti aside, switchins are pretty scarce to it. Iron Thorns is an HO mon with a niche of both it's defensive typing and having access to Taunt, giving it some ways to mess with Hippo, and can run balloon + taunt to completely abuse hippo ala revavroom. Wo-chien is an incredibly fat shithead that can do immense amount of lounging around while chipping down the right teams. Sylveon makes it name as a fairy type nuke, which is high in value as most of our steels are on the fake end. Competition with Enam-T exists but Sylveon has some reasons to pick it, namely pixilate and access to Wish to play team support if theres a check to it. Vileplume once again abuses every click of U-turn with a 30% chance to cripple the target, and with teams consisting of Cobal Cyclizar Molt Fezandipiti, this things value starts to show, especially with unrestricted sleep proc potential. Defensive value is also nice of course.

View attachment 607088
Best HO lead in the tier for free. It's strong, reliable at getting them up, can usually dent a mon you want if thats your pick, like CC into cobalion or +2 X-scissor into Hippo/Donphan etc. It's prone to counterleading from Terrakion, but that's something i find to be a niche cope set than something practical. Not much to add, it has variety like Trailblaze, SD, Tailwind, rock blast, QA, etc. Very nice.

View attachment 607096View attachment 607097
I'll be honest I think both of these are very ass. I ranked Necrozma highly in part because i think it absolutely has potential, unlike slowbro. Slowbro right now is just... why not use a different water. We have slowking (for now), washtom, swampert, volcanion etc just use a different water type. It's better at checking revavroom sure but it's still meh at the job gunk does so fucking much. It's usable sure but I'm just not remotely a fan. I'm sure it'll get better though but for now imma hate.

View attachment 607098
Aand since its 12:30am im gonna wrap it up with this shit. Yeah this mon still busted lmao. Recently been teching Temper Flare on my Revavrooms, and have had the added benefit of 2 tapping Feli's orthworm for free as he greed spiked on it thinking he could actually check it with his "counter". I've also been using Tera flying, which has benefit of ignoring Hippowdon even after a balloon pop, so that's no longer sufficient counterplay either. Temper flare also messes with Tera Steel Washtoms if you can call the worlds most telegraphed emergency tera, Bronzong, and Forretrees as answer to it. Because truthfully you don't actually need tera ground or HHP, it's nice but Temper Flare does alot of the same things, with added benefits. Note how revavroom can just choose to ignore these counterplay with a minor change and you gotta just hold that? Yeah me too. Incineroar and Moltres move nicely until the holy spirit known as Tera Fire sends both packing to a 1 way trip to Dubai. The moment the people abandon the notion that Revavroom is beholden to one set, the quicker we can get this mon up outta here. Try changing around what tera types and moveslots it uses and you'll see this mon just isn't ok.

Blud really stuck jigglypuff in b- and thought we wouldn’t notice smh

 

[LBN]

Blud really stuck jigglypuff in b- and thought we wouldn’t notice smh

the tier list maker i used didn't have scream tail you gotta understand i did what i could

 

[Danny]

I haven't made a forum post regarding RU in a long time. I want to reference some of the posts made by my fellow rult players and also speak from my own experience.


I agree with Master Chief 100%. This mon is crazy asf. Its BU set is probably too strong and fast and scary and tera makes it so awkward to play around. Ghost means you lose to opposing zarude but you beat ID coba so thats cute. Poison means you flip your type matchups a little bit and you can probably beat IDBP coba unless its the good set. It is just rly strong knock is insane progress making in the tier where the only removal that is really viable is cyclizar. I am open to seeing more counterplay to zarude, and I have been able to find it but having to dig in the trenches to beat a mon is textbook unfair. Very questionable mon would probs have to see how it does in cycle 4 and this round of ssnl but please keep an eye on it.


Ight call me crazy but this mon is more oppressive than zarude right now. Its speed tier is nuts. It outspeeds most of the unboosted metagame and has the ability to consistently flip HO mus on its head. I love that for cobalion ngl bc the HO cheese bullshit kids spam makes me hate the tier sometimes. It made me cringe how every single game in the first half of the cycle was just bullshit jug v jug v leaves v leaves and was pleasantly surprised when I could actually skill express later on in the week. HOWEVER, cobalion's ability to flip matchups and beat its own checks is a little questionable. Obviously IDBP is its best set and its best move is pretty known by now as taunt. Taunt is what probs pushes it over the edge it can legit just beat the checks it has like hippo and slowking and with good team support you can evade burns and other status moves that can check you long term. Feels like the only reliable checks include knocking it once and then pressuring with a special scarfer or a ghost type like zoro/gengar/basculegion. two of those if the coba spams hslam it can beat long term and the other one isnt the strongest in the meta. Its just a weird mon to play around and seeing it consistently smack resists fucks w my head. Had a game vs Dugza HO where he had a set up mew, a rocky helmet cresselia, and an infernape. cobalion still won. get the cress to 50 and then taunt it and then beat it down with body press. 2hko the mew with bpress. It has just won more games this rult cycle between all of the players than any other mon.


Dude how the heck was this not banned. Necessitates one of 3 mons as scarfers or weird nu/pu picks to counter it. A bit disappointed it wasnt taken along with Jugulis when they are equally broken in my view. Too many games where it just swept teams because it was able to tera and flip its resists while also owning everything with its strong moves. Pre-SD its kind of weak but its attack combo is damn near unstoppable with resistances. Really implore that this gets looked at again. Im sure the playerbase will find cplay as I managed to but I still find it quite annoying for most players.


Many players have touched on this a bit so I wont go too in depth about it. I think its another borderline always broken mon that having hippo in the tier only helps a bit. The HO spam with it and air balloon was soo cringe every game and even tho I had ways to beat it with my teams I felt like it was always 1 flinch away and that is lame. Idk if its broken but keep an eye on it because its consistently handing out Ls to players who supposedly prepared well with rotom w+hippo or coba+swampert and stuff like that.

Tera:
This is more a personal take but tera is what flips these mons from good to potentially broken. This is an overarching SV trend but since the general smogon community decided to keep tera( personally I agree I like tera just think its broken occasionally) I believe a more heavy-handed approach to tiering should take place.

There were a few other mons I think are nuts but not as nuts as the ones i mentioned. These opinions are subject to change the more I ladder so keep that in mind just my views from the past week or so of laddering after taking a quick break from ru.

 

[Bruxish supremacy]

Just run Goat chien to defeat iron leaves and vroom. Noobs.

 

[Sneakyplanner]

Just run Goat chien to defeat iron leaves and vroom. Noobs.

+2 160 Atk Quark Drive Iron Leaves Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Wo-Chien: 344-406 (91.9 - 108.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Woch doesn't do a particularly good job of answering it. And of course if you tera your wo-chien and get your physical wall chipped, then you just lose to iron leaves/ teammates.

 

[fluff!!]

(on Iron Leaves)

Im sure the playerbase will find cplay as I managed to but I still find it quite annoying for most players.

Very good post, but I find this part in particular paradoxical.

If a threat is strong, you find counterplay, and if said counterplay is reliable, then we don't need to ban it, no? I hate to be that guy, but if good players can find couterplay and lesser players can't, then... just adapt? git gud? finding answers to problems is also what makes a strong player. You can't say "we found answers but ban it anyways".
It's not like the counterplay you listed was overly specific and constraining either. As you stated, plenty of viable scarfers (even outside of the Iron Leaves use case!) outspeed and rk leaves, not just 1, and defensive answers are very real too. Defensive mons trading Teras is natural counterplay and is a dynamic that has existed since the beginning of the generation in every tier where Tera is allowed.

Also, just because a mon is NU/PU doesn't mean it cannot have a place in RU. There is plenty of examples already of lower tier Pokemon seeing play in higher tiers as answers to specific questions throughout every generation. see Cofagrigus, a RU mon, in ORAS OU.

in my opinion, Iron Leaves is a strong, but healthy presence in the tier with little to no cheese potential (unlike a certain car) and should not get banned.

 

[Moyashi]

I hate to be that guy, but if good players can find couterplay and lesser players can't, then... just adapt? git gud? finding answers to problems is also what makes a strong player.

Good players have no problems adapting. But there’s a difference between reasonable adaptations and adaptations that are awkward and/or are the result of heavy strain on the builder.

and defensive answers are very real too. Defensive mons trading Teras is natural counterplay and is a dynamic that has existed since the beginning of the generation in every tier where Tera is allowed.

there really isn’t a whole lot of natural defensive answers. And defensive mons being forced to trade Tera to avoid getting walked on because there aren’t many other options is not really reasonable counter play, given how this dynamic is very exploitable for the side that is forcing the Tera (in this case leaves). This has never really been a good sign of things.

Also, just because a mon is NU/PU doesn't mean it cannot have a place in RU. There is plenty of examples already of lower tier Pokemon seeing play in higher tiers as answers to specific questions throughout every generation. see Cofagrigus, a RU mon, in ORAS OU

the difference is that Oras cofagrigus had a wide reach of applications beyond one case, and isn’t something that strains teambuilding badly to include. If something from nu/pu can check leaves while also be good elsewhere and not compromise teambuilding, great. But on this case I’m not seeing it.

 

[carbonlifeform]

Getting bored of running ID Cobalion on all of your teams to have something, anything to throw at the likes of Zarude, Iron Leaves, and more? I've got one simple question for you: Why not Chesnaught?

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 224 HP / 200 Def / 84 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Leech Seed
- Body Press
- Roar

Chesnaught has a few things it offers over Cobalion in this role:
In its natural type, it resists ground and doesn't have a fighting weakness, giving it some different options to set up on.
After Tera-ing, Bulletproof's immunity to Shadow Ball takes away by far the most common Ghost-type coverage option.
Leech Seed gives you a way to make progress against obvious switch-ins and pick up extra longevity in general.
It's not Cobalion, so you may not be bored out of your mind from seeing it all the time.

The last move can be any number of things. Knock and Spikes are obviously great utility, but I love running Roar here (try it on Coba, too!). Roar offers a couple of really nice use cases: My favorite is when you're clicking ID while your opponent is clicking DD/BU/SD and then you just Roar away their boosts while keeping your own. But it's also obviously great for phazing out a would-be counter, wracking up hazard damage and giving you a chance to click ID or Leech Seed or just to make an informed double switch.

On the topic of Zarude and Iron Leaves, I wouldn't be sad to see either go.

BU Zarude is certifiably nuts. With Tera Poison, it turns so many of its would-be counters into setup bait (and its STABs covering both of Poison's weaknesses is huge). Like, on paper, Dogi should be a borderline hard counter to Zarude. It's got more-than reasonable bulk, resists both of Zarude's STABs and all of its common coverage moves, has two STABs that hit Zarude SE pre-Tera and can run Psychic Fangs to handle it post-tera. And yet, the only set that can reliably switch-in to Zarude is BU + Psychic Fangs, and you probably need Taunt as well to be safe -- which is really only a set you would run for Zarude and the Dogi mirror. Anything else is setup fodder. Like, Band Dogi cannot break Zarude if Zarude clicks BU on the switch. Jungle Healing will outpace Psychic Fangs damage before you can kill it. Trust me, Feliburn took many, many wins off of me the past couple of days due to my inability to learn that lesson.

Iron Leaves biggest issue, to me, is its ability to trivially adapt to whatever its most common checks are. Like, there's no rule that it needs to run SD/Leaf Blade/Psyblade/CC with Tera Fighting, and with its power, bulk, and BE-enhanced speed, it doesn't take a major change of script to upend a match. For example, if you're relying on Bulky, Mixed Moltres as your Iron Leaves check and you run into a Tera Fire set or Leaves is opting to run Wild Charge for the specific MU (as it often did/does in UU to handle Torn), then, uh, good luck. It's also a fantastic Tera Blast abuser to pick its coverage and resistances. Ghost is particularly great to upend the MU against ID Coba both offensively and defensively (and also benefits from BE minimizing Knock damage and generating an immunity to Poltergeist).

FWIW, I haven't found Maus or Revavroom to be nearly as frustrating post-Jugulis ban with Balance/Bulky Offense generally feeling stronger. Vroom can still flinch its way through games, which always sucks, but it's definitely harder for it to come in and take over.

 

[Elec-ant1234]

Y'all know what time it is: It's the Meloetta Corner, coming to YOU the day before tier shifts (again) to inform y'all about how Meloetta is doing!

So unfortunately for most of the meta Meloetta quite simply could NOT be used, and for one very important reason: Iron Jugulis. Iron Jug is such an absolute hard-wall for Meloetta it's crazy, but what about after the demon got banned?
Well sadly Meloetta simply doesn't fit all that well into this current meta. Although it's become less HO focused (which lets Meloetta get cruical set up turns with it's best set of sub CM) it's legitimately too powercrept for Meloetta to actually fulfill her role as a bulky wincon. Thund-T in particular is horrific for the Meloetta user, since it just way too hard and breaks subs with ease. Additionally, since sand is a constant in the tier, Meloetta isn't able to recover HP from lefties after using subs.
TLDR, better luck next meta, but don't count her out just yet!...

 

[Bruxish supremacy]

View attachment 609708Y'all know what time it is: It's the Meloetta Corner, coming to YOU the day before tier shifts (again) to inform y'all about how Meloetta is doing!

So unfortunately for most of the meta Meloetta quite simply could NOT be used, and for one very important reason: Iron Jugulis. Iron Jug is such an absolute hard-wall for Meloetta it's crazy, but what about after the demon got banned?
Well sadly Meloetta simply doesn't fit all that well into this current meta. Although it's become less HO focused (which lets Meloetta get cruical set up turns with it's best set of sub CM) it's legitimately too powercrept for Meloetta to actually fulfill her role as a bulky wincon. Thund-T in particular is horrific for the Meloetta user, since it just way too hard and breaks subs with ease. Additionally, since sand is a constant in the tier, Meloetta isn't able to recover HP from lefties after using subs.
TLDR, better luck next meta, but don't count her out just yet!...

I am fairly certain cm melo should run some sp.def so thundy can't break sub. Which btw u can ev it.
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 4+ SpD Meloetta: 78-93 (19.3 - 23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tera fairy/fighting helps vs knock off u turn aswell. Def not as good as it was during last month but still a very nice pick imho. Av is also fat as f.

 

[Elec-ant1234]

I am fairly certain cm melo should run some sp.def so thundy can't break sub. Which btw u can ev it.
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 4+ SpD Meloetta: 78-93 (19.3 - 23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tera fairy/fighting helps vs knock off u turn aswell. Def not as good as it was during last month but still a very nice pick imho. Av is also fat as f.

While that is true, the issue lies in the fact that most Thundy's run nasty plot, so it's pretty easy for them to chip you down into range for a teammate to pick up the KO.

Also I should have mentioned but usually Cobalion can defeat Melo, so watch out for that next month

 

[Bruxish supremacy]

While that is true, the issue lies in the fact that most Thundy's run nasty plot, so it's pretty easy for them to chip you down into range for a teammate to pick up the KO.

Also I should have mentioned but usually Cobalion can defeat Melo, so watch out for that next month

I mean u sub up as thundy switches in they tbolt to break ur sub u Psyshock the thundy they tbolt again doing around 30% to u while melo has a very good chance to 2 hot ko thundy with Psyshock. Melo will win the exchange most of the times. Of course this is a bit unfavourable trade as losing so much health on Melo isn't helpful. If u cmd first then thundy is forced to plot which gives u free sub so it's fine.

Cobal is getting banned trust me.

 

[Elec-ant1234]

...well THAT just happened

swapping out slowking for deoxy-d huh

also UU was *THIS* close to taking away Hoopa-U, which would have been great for us.

guess we got amoongus?? and cincinoo too but idk if she's gonna be anything other than ambipom 2.
and also RIP to the goat Krookodile, he finally got killed off after months of barely hanging on

 

[Feliburn]

March shifts:

We lost:



We got: