ORAS Ubers Sweepin' Xerneas and Ma Leading Ninja, Suggestions Needed!

[Swingin]

Greninja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Shadow Sneak
The spike stacking lead who can get up t-spikes to wear down opponents. Spikes specifically puts grounded threats in range of your attacks such as a Primal Groudon who can check and wall a lot on this team. Taunt is used to prevent defog from Giratina-O and most Arceus variants. Shadow Sneak allows you to beat Deoxy-S leads and prevent Rapid Spin.

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 184 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
The main sweeper on the team who can wreck an unprepared team after a Geo. Xerneas has tremendous power after a Geo but it needs certain checks to be gone or weakened before it can sweep. The hazards that Greninja provides compliments Xerneas' inability to OHKO certain mons, specifically Spdef Primal Groudon who takes 55.1 - 65% from a +2 Focus Blast. Thunder can hit anything weak to it for tremendous damage. The only survivor being Lugia who would have to take rocks damage before you can sweep. Focus Blast can nail steel type resistances and with spike support you may not have to risk the miss if they're weakened enough for a Moonblast.

Groudon (Groudon-Primal) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
Primal Groudon serves as the stealth rocker on the team. It checks huge threats like GeoXern and Primal Kyogre which patches up a bunch of weaknesses for this team. T-Wave helps keep faster threats in check and makes Groudon a mon you don't wanna be setting up against. Stone Edge is for hitting Ho-oh who also greatly threatens this team as nothing on this team appreciates a banded Brave Bird.

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
A decided go with Arceus Ghost as it checks E-Killer Arceus and can comfortably wear down a team with it's amazing bulk. Ghost stab is pretty powerful in this tier the only threats being Dark types which Xerneas can check. Spreading burns and providing a necessary amount of damage to certain threats is this mon's main goal to assure victory after a Geomancy.

Salamence (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 192 HP / 148 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Refresh
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
The mega on the team and a secondary check to E killer Arceus. Salamence can also switch-in on a Primal Groudon pretty comfortably thanks to Refresh, but watch out for Stone Edge. Refresh also keeps Salamence from becoming set-up bait as a bulk GeoXern can set up pretty comfortably against a paralyzed Salamence. M-Salamence's slow set-up game is also greatly complimented toxic spikes which weaken a team enough for Salamence to easily sweep.

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 176 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe / 4 Spdef
Modest Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
A powerful special attacker whos purpose is to tank hits from steel types and heavy damage back. Kyogre works well with Lando-T as it can check Primal Groudon who is the usually a safe switch into a Primal Kyogre. Sleep Talk is mainly to obsorb Dark Voids and backlash with a Sleep Talk. Kyogre is so powerful that an unprepared team often has nothing to switch-in to it which can force them to sack a huge threat which is what Kyogre's main purpose on the team is. The EV spread is for tanking two Dark Pulses as well+two turns of Bad Dreams making for a reliable switch-in

Conclusion: This team could use a lot of improvements as it is far from perfect in its current state. Any suggestions to improve this team are very welcome just as long as Xerneas and Greninja aren't replaced for anything else as I'm trying to make a team built around them.

 

[Edgar]

Hey, I'm going to have to lock this thread, you're not following the RMT rules, you need a 3 lines paragraph describing each mon and its role. PM me with the necessary changes so I can open the thread for discussion again.

 

[Malley]

Hi Swingin,

Glad to see you've made the changes Edgar asked for. This won't be a full rate, but I'll give my initial thoughts, and this will at least let other raters know that the thread is unlocked.

The first thing is that you haven't given us a proper set for Xerneas. I'll assume it's the 184/x/24/252+/x/48 spread, just because that's easiest to work with for now, but really the RMT needs one like the rest of the team has.

Anti-lead Diancie should always run Protect, since otherwise it's outsped and KOed by Primal Groudon (and a lot else, but that's what it's generally meant to stop). I would run it in place of Calm Mind, since all three coverage moves are pretty important, and most often you won't be 'sweeping' so much as 'slightly denting', even at +1. An example, and also the most common practical case:

+1 252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 266-314 (65.8 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 336-396 (139.4 - 164.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You should also run Diamond Storm with a Naive nature rather than Ancient Power with Timid, since Ancient Power is not a OHKO on Ho-Oh and has very little utility elsewhere. Even with no investment, Diamond Storm is more powerful, and allows Diancie to threaten special walls like Blissey that hate mixed attackers.

And an offensive spread on Sleep Talk Kyogre is rather out of place. You need it to be able to take two hits from Darkrai, plus Bad Dreams damage, which is not guaranteed with your 252+/252 spread. 176 HP / 252+ SpA / 4 SpD / 76 Spe allows it to live two Dark Pulses and two Bad Dreams, while retaining the wallbreaking power that you need Kyogre for, and also outspeeding neutral zero-investment Xerneas and Yveltal.

Finally, both Landorus-T and Diancie are major set-up bait for almost anything, and I am not sure about their places on this team. In addition to being set-up bait, Landorus cannot switch freely in on specially defensive Groudon - Lava Plume is a clear 2HKO - and Diancie is not so much needed to check Darkrai when you have a Sleep Talk Kyogre. Since the main thing Diancie does is check Ho-Oh, you could benefit from running specially defensive Primal Groudon with Stone Edge in its place. This compresses your team nicely, giving you a GeoXern check, stealth rocker, Primal Kyogre check, and extra weather control all in one slot. This also frees up the Stealth Rock slot on Landorus-T, which at the moment is really the only thing keeping it in the team. In place of Landorus-T, therefore, I suggest Mega Salamence (since you would also have a mega slot free now). Salamence is a good secondary E-Killer check, after Ghostceus, while also checking or countering most variants of Primal Groudon well and giving you considerably more offensive pressure. Landorus-T and M-Diancie are real liabilities at the moment, and these changes should tighten the team up a lot.

Sets

Groudon (Groudon-Primal) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Adamant with no attack investment looks odd, but it makes Thunder Wave a far more reliable way of checking +2 Xerneas since Earthquake then has an 85% chance to 2HKO, rather than an 8% chance with a Careful nature. If you run Careful (or any non-attack-boosting nature) you need Roar in place of Thunder Wave.

0+ Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 201-237 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

0 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 183-216 (43.6 - 51.5%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

Salamence (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 192 HP / 148 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Refresh
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

192 HP ensures that Salamence lives a +3 Extremespeed from Jolly Life Orb E-Killer and can then dent it back with Frustration. Earthquake is an option over Refresh if you find you need the coverage, but in this case Xerneas should run Aromatherapy over Thunder, since a burned or paralysed Salamence will hardly be able to do anything.

This is all I can think of for now. Hope I've helped, and good luck!

 

[Swingin]

Hi Swingin,

Glad to see you've made the changes Edgar asked for. This won't be a full rate, but I'll give my initial thoughts, and this will at least let other raters know that the thread is unlocked.

The first thing is that you haven't given us a proper set for Xerneas. I'll assume it's the 184/x/24/252+/x/48 spread, just because that's easiest to work with for now, but really the RMT needs one like the rest of the team has.

Anti-lead Diancie should always run Protect, since otherwise it's outsped and KOed by Primal Groudon (and a lot else, but that's what it's generally meant to stop). I would run it in place of Calm Mind, since all three coverage moves are pretty important, and most often you won't be 'sweeping' so much as 'slightly denting', even at +1. An example, and also the most common practical case:

+1 252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 266-314 (65.8 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 336-396 (139.4 - 164.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You should also run Diamond Storm with a Naive nature rather than Ancient Power with Timid, since Ancient Power is not a OHKO on Ho-Oh and has very little utility elsewhere. Even with no investment, Diamond Storm is more powerful, and allows Diancie to threaten special walls like Blissey that hate mixed attackers.

And an offensive spread on Sleep Talk Kyogre is rather out of place. You need it to be able to take two hits from Darkrai, plus Bad Dreams damage, which is not guaranteed with your 252+/252 spread. 176 HP / 252+ SpA / 4 SpD / 76 Spe allows it to live two Dark Pulses and two Bad Dreams, while retaining the wallbreaking power that you need Kyogre for, and also outspeeding neutral zero-investment Xerneas and Yveltal.

Finally, both Landorus-T and Diancie are major set-up bait for almost anything, and I am not sure about their places on this team. In addition to being set-up bait, Landorus cannot switch freely in on specially defensive Groudon - Lava Plume is a clear 2HKO - and Diancie is not so much needed to check Darkrai when you have a Sleep Talk Kyogre. Since the main thing Diancie does is check Ho-Oh, you could benefit from running specially defensive Primal Groudon with Stone Edge in its place. This compresses your team nicely, giving you a GeoXern check, stealth rocker, Primal Kyogre check, and extra weather control all in one slot. This also frees up the Stealth Rock slot on Landorus-T, which at the moment is really the only thing keeping it in the team. In place of Landorus-T, therefore, I suggest Mega Salamence (since you would also have a mega slot free now). Salamence is a good secondary E-Killer check, after Ghostceus, while also checking or countering most variants of Primal Groudon well and giving you considerably more offensive pressure. Landorus-T and M-Diancie are real liabilities at the moment, and these changes should tighten the team up a lot.

Sets

Groudon (Groudon-Primal) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Adamant with no attack investment looks odd, but it makes Thunder Wave a far more reliable way of checking +2 Xerneas since Earthquake then has an 85% chance to 2HKO, rather than an 8% chance with a Careful nature. If you run Careful (or any non-attack-boosting nature) you need Roar in place of Thunder Wave.

0+ Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 201-237 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

0 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 183-216 (43.6 - 51.5%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

Salamence (Salamence-Mega) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 192 HP / 148 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Refresh
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

192 HP ensures that Salamence lives a +3 Extremespeed from Jolly Life Orb E-Killer and can then dent it back with Frustration. Earthquake is an option over Refresh if you find you need the coverage, but in this case Xerneas should run Aromatherapy over Thunder, since a burned or paralysed Salamence will hardly be able to do anything.

This is all I can think of for now. Hope I've helped, and good luck!

LOL about my missed Xerneas set that was huge mistake on my part, but the spread was nothing but the basic Geomancy set. (still something that shouldn't be forgotten on a RMT lol)
Giving Kyogre some extra bulk to better take on Darkrai was just the specific EV spread I was looking for.
The replacement for Diancie over Primal Groudon gives a more solid answer to GeoXern, Primal Groudon, but makes opposing Lava pluming Primal Groudon the more annoying to go up against.
Refresh M-Salamence cleverly gives me a switch-in on a Lava Plume, but makes Stone Edge a very scary option that the opponent to go for. Though Salamence's slow set-up as well as the t-spikes slowly racking up damage on the opponent makes Salamence a deadly sweeper to deal with.
Overall I appreciate the changes, thanks man.

 

[Malley]

The replacement for Diancie over Primal Groudon gives a more solid answer to GeoXern, Primal Groudon, but makes opposing Lava pluming Primal Groudon the more annoying to go up against.
Refresh M-Salamence cleverly gives me a switch-in on a Lava Plume, but makes Stone Edge a very scary option that the opponent to go for. Though Salamence's slow set-up as well as the t-spikes slowly racking up damage on the opponent makes Salamence a deadly sweeper to deal with.
Overall I appreciate the changes, thanks man.

Protip about Mence - it can actually come in on a Stone Edge from an unboosted 252+ Pdon, mega-evolved or otherwise, and Roost-stall it out of PP or until it misses. It's shit like this that makes it the second best 'mon in the tier.

And I'm not sure why you say Pdon makes Lava Plume more scary - it resists it and is immune to the 30% burn chance, unlike Diancie. With the threat of a ground move, though, neither should be your first or even second switch-in.

Glad I could help.