Synergy and Teambuilding

[Ancien Régime]

Synergy (from the Greek syn-ergo, συνεργός meaning working together) refers to the phenomenon in which two or more discrete influences or agents acting together create an effect greater than that predicted by knowing only the separate effects of the individual agents. It is originally a scientific term.

In a lot of my team rates, I talk about synergy. I just gave you a "dictionary" definition, but what does it mean in regards to Pokemon?

Let's take the team I use now - Deoxys-E, Yanmega, Heatran, Celebi, Garchomp, Lucario.

What is my strategy? Similar to a lot of people today, it's set up rocks, prevent SR from getting set up, dent things (i.e) don't set up until mid/late game, then sweep.

It's a very simple plan, but it's a plan. Every pokemon contributes to that plan, whether it's Celebi crippling things with paralysis or stopping big threats like Garchomp (Celebi does that incredibly well), or whether its denting things for a sweep by something else (Lucario hits even its counters hard, especially since many of them are SR weak), or Garchomp clearing the way with SD Outrage, or Yanmega sleeping and denting things, or Heatran revengekilling, every member of the team has an important place on the team.

Those questions are the most important - is it just 6 OU pokemon thrown together just because they're strong individually?

You must have a plan to win; a plan that is viable under any conditions, at the same time, being able to cover yourself when your plan goes wrong.

Now, let's see - let's take a team like this - this is a team style I often see by not so experienced players.

Baton Passer, Baton Passer 2, random wall, random wall, sweeper, sweeper.

Some may think this is an example of a strategy - boost up, baton pass and sweep. However, the flaw is "what happens if something goes wrong?" What happens if I predict your 6+ 6+ pass to Metagross and fire off a random EQ? What if I bring in a Taunter? Now, your strategy has failed, and because your team doesn't work together outside that one strategy, you are at a major disadvantage. This is why you see people quit after you stop their JaskWak strategy or something.

Pokemon is a game of 6 members of a team- don't structure your strategy around a link of 2 members, to the exclusion of the other 4. (for example, if you want to use a Baton Passer, use one that can support the team beyond Baton Passing (say, a Leech Seed/Reflect Celebi), and can survive for a while (Roost Gliscor), as well as being to Pass repeatedly to different pokemon. Or, like wdro does, you can structure your team to eliminate potential threats to the Baton Pass recipient, like phazers, scarfers, etc.

"Little things" are highly important too. To optimize synergy, a lot of tweaks have to be made - these can be as insignificant as a unique EV spread, a somewhat unorthodox and situational move, or even a change in pokemon. For example, on my ADV Salamence, I run 168 SDef EVs - enough to survive a Swampert's Ice Beam. Why is that important? In general, it can help in the late game to get another hit on Swampert to make it faint, but in particular, my team relies heavily on Baton Passing Swords Dances from Celebi to the rest of my team, and being able to survive an Ice Beam is the difference between beating Swampert to set up the sweep, or losing to it completely and having my strategy fail.

In short, synergy is very difficult to create - let me tell you, for many people, a lof of teams will fail before you hit upon the perfect one, and even that will take a lot of tweaking. I can attest to this.

Now, to discuss - how do you create "synergy" within your teams? Do you look to "cover weaknesses" (does your strategy demand that you not have a particular weakness, etc), what "little things" do you incorporate into your movesets (for example, on my stall team in April, I used Toxic/Roar Heatran because I needed phazing support and Toxic was a good way to hit Garchomp/Salamence/Gyarados on the switch (this was when everything was bulky, before people started using Outrage to plow through everything lol). I think there are a lot of ways to achieve "synergy" within a team, no matter the play or team style.

 

[Taylor]

Is ensuring you have no singular weaknesess to a threat 'synergy'? I'd be inclined to believe that synergizing a team together in order to account for all opposing types in the game is 'synergy'. But as for maintaining a team that can handle most threats in the game, I personally determine that quality to be either common sense or a strategy in itself - not synergy. Well, at least that's what I feel.

When I think 'synergy' in Pokemon, I define it as one of a few different styles. First off, as mentioned, the 'type synergy', where the entire team combined resists every attacking type in the game. Secondly, an effective dual combination of two Pokemon that work extremely well together. Heatran and Celebi for example, as they both cover for one another's weaknesses and appear to be able to handle one another's counters particulary well - Heatran can switch in on Gengar and pose and immediate threat, on the other hand, Celebi can switch in on a Starmie that initially had Heatran countered. Of course, the two cannot be viewed as a 'perfect synergetic combination', as they both have their own downsides as a unit, too. Ironically, Heatran itself is one of them.

 

[thetorsoboy]

Well, I'm inexperienced. But, I start with my favorites, and then try to cover all the weaknesses, with a few status-inducers, and they usually work halfway decent.

But like you said, what happens if there's a problem? What if Metagross, my Agili-sweeper, gets a Thunder Wave? Well, I'm screwed. I don't have Blissey, so I can't fix him up, and now I rely on walls.

In the end, it's making the initial team, and then testing, testing, and some more testing, making small improvements that add up until I have a solid team that covers everything I've had problems with.

Overall, a team can look amazing on paper, but it'll never really work without testing. (Or a bit of hax on your side.)

 

[StarmanXL]

Well, seeing as I can't create synergy for shit on any of my standard teams (my mono-special team was close but hampered by my limited selection of pokemon), but for my doubles teams I usually look for a couple things:

1. Do I have a strategy? Something as simple as Trick Room, Gravity, Rain Dance, etc, but it could also be something like setting up a Rhyperior first turn to do a lot of damage afterwards, or pairing Discharge Porygon-Z with Electivire or something to that effect.

2. How do I keep my strategy from being stopped? Simple enough; if I lead with Trick Room, how do I prevent my Trick Roomer from being Taunted? If I lead with Rain Dance, how do I kill Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow as quickly as possible? Is my team too dependent on my strategy (as in, if it doesn't work or I can't set it up right away, can my team still function? Can I set it up again?)? Do I have a back-up?

3. Am I abusing my strategy to the fullest? Quite simply, I want most of my pokes to take advantage of my strategy; if I'm using Sunny Day, I want to abuse Heat Wave, Solar Beam, and Chrolphyll. If Tailwind, I want pokes with good to average speed. If Trick Room, I want slow, powerful pokemon like Rhyperior, Marowak, Machamp, Camerupt, etc. I also want to abuse whatever abilities and moves I can, like Skill Swap, Levitate, Snow Warning, Water Absorb, Flash Fire, Volt Absorb, Dry Skin, Intimidate, etc. Obviously, I don't want something that's supposed to spam Thunder on a Gravity team alongside a Lightningrod Marowak or putting Infernape on a team that spams Surf all the time--it's as TheMaskedNitpicker said in his doubles primer, you don't wanna shoot yourself in the foot.

4. Do I have good pokemon pairings? This goes with the last one, but I want to make sure I have pokemon that work well together when out on the field at the same time. For example, I don't want a Garchomp paired with Heatran because I can't use Earthquake then. Likewise, I don't want something like Blaziken and Tentacruel out at the same time as EQ takes them both down. I also wouldn't want two pokemon out walled by exactly the same thing or type.

A good pairing would be something like Toxicroak and Ludicolo or Kingdra on a rain dance team. Ludicolo or Kingdra can set up Rain for Toxicroak and can spam Surf, which not only heals Toxicroak but is boosted by rain and STAB, hits both opponents, and puts the hurt on pokemon that beat Toxicroak such as the Nidos, Gliscor, Swampert, Banette, Rotom, and so on. Toxicroak threatens Blissey, Empoleon, Snorlax, and Regice which wall the rain dancer, can Sucker Punch or X-Scissor Celebi, and put the hurt on Tentacruel with Stone Edge (I think). Auto-weather changers Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow can't easily switch in, since the first two risk taking a SE Surf, Ice Beam, or Energy Ball, while the first and second are threatened by Cross Chop. Not an absolutely perfect pairing, but as you can see, it's effective.

I guess you could consider doubles team synergy an extension of singles synergy except with less of an emphasis on "countering" pokemon and the question "does this pokemon work well with this pokemon?" becomes even more important, although it works less like the Celebi and Heatran combo Taylor mentioned and more like the Ludicolo and Toxicroak pairing. Single pokemon sweeps are less likely, but still possible if you've a poorly constructed team--for example, CS Typhlosion with Eruption is a real bother, as well as a Blizzard-spamming Glaceon, but something like Deoxys-S won't singlehandedly run through your team.

Of course, I doubt most people here give two shits about doubles, so...

 

[Brawley]

Good article AR, I create synergy in my teams though having an core of 1-3 pokemon that I base the who either sweep or stall out my opponent. Well I build the team around these pokemon, while covering other threats with the other pokemon, For example take one of my old teams for example. It's Gengar/Celebi/Heatran/Heracross/Garchomp/Dragonite, the core is around Garchomp and Dragonite, basically its yache chomp setting up early weakening or destroying they're dragon counter, while DDnite comes in late game and sweeps everything. Gengar is there for a fast hypnosis, which is helpful for setting up, and it destroys some physical walls, including cresselia. Celebi is there to counter chomp and dos, both which can give my 2 dragons trouble, and it either sets up rocks or thunderwaves for easier sweeps. Heatran is there to take out gengar, mainly scarf gar who can give me trouble, along as working well with celebi. Heracross is really usefull as it is a wall breaker, which gives less troubles for my dragons.

That's how I basically do most of my teams. :]

 

[Sojiro Aionis]

I have a hard time with some of this sometimes, but I can manage alright...

 

[Tangerine]

Augh, I was going to make this thread.

Is ensuring you have no singular weaknesess to a threat 'synergy'? I'd be inclined to believe that synergizing a team together in order to account for all opposing types in the game is 'synergy'. But as for maintaining a team that can handle most threats in the game, I personally determine that quality to be either common sense or a strategy in itself - not synergy. Well, at least that's what I feel.

The implied goal of any team is to be able to deal with any situation no matter what situation it is in - simply because you want to win as many times as possible. If that's the case, the goal of synergy is to have each pokemon contribute to this concept. With D/P where you cannot counter everything, you find that revenge killers are more used now simply because of this reason - they're one way to take down what you normally cannot take down. So yes, if your team has a specstran weak, and you EV your Gliscor to outspeed Heatran and Magnezone - that would be an action that would boost Synergy.

There are of course many ways to accomplish this. Having a spin blocker to a stall team may be common sense, but the spin blocker is an essential part of the team. You pick this spin blocker to handle the biggest threats in your team and you choose one of the many. Perhaps this is why Nidoqueen is being used - people want a toxic spiker/absorber that can counter heracross and SD Luke. Why? Because it helps their team win more. But perhaps your team is already 4x EQ weak. Then you would have to go with Gliscor - because having another EQ weak would just make your team prone to being swept by <insert threat here>

Each choice in a well built team has all of this in mind. Another way to build teams is to throw in 6 random Pokemon and figure out how to deal with threats using those Pokemon. Learn how to use the team to handle threats - that's another example of maximizing synergy.

 

[Itchni]

I usually go with a theme, either stall or sweep and any other gimmicks that I want, like a sand storm team, or trick room. then i pick out my special and physical walls (has anyone ever noticed the massive synergy between hippo and cradilly, its amazing the only weaknesses they have are special fighting and physical ice) and then finally the pokemon to execute the plan.

 

[Ancien Régime]

"2 pokemon" does NOT make synergy. People have Celetran on their teams and think that creates synergy when, while they work well together, that does not make a unified team strategy.

For example, I have Lucario, Garchomp, and Yanmega as my primary. Because I tend to have SR on the field from turn one (due to the rarity of spinners and the speed of Deoxys-S), everything is taking damage on switchins. Furthermore, the biggest counters to Yanmega are Heatran, Blissey, and Zapdos. Zapdos is Stealth Rock weak. Thus, even an unboosted Close Combat will take Zapdos below 40% health, meaning that assuming the rocks stay up, Zapdos will be unable to switch in more than once. Blissey and Heatran are of course OHKOed by Close Combat. Garchomp can theoretically OHKO them all after a Swords Dance (though obviously Heatran tend to be scarfed HP Ice users). Conversely, Yanmega is excellent at disabling the bulky waters that can dent shut down Garchomp, and after a speed boost can hurt Gengar trying to wall Lucario. Garchomp itself can take out 1-2 pokemon, weakening the team for a later sweep.

The synergy comes from each pokemon opening the way for the success of another pokemon.

 

[SnK-arcbound]

Absolutely nothing that you've said so far is synergy. Having a team that covers weaknesses isn't synergy, because weaknesses and resistences are a common game mechanic, and a basic desired effect. Putting in bait to pull out a SR weak pokemon isn't synergy, it requires your opponent to choose the SR damage etc. over not switching.

What is synergy then? Simple. Switching a breloom into poison spikes would be synergy. Why? The intended effect, poisoning breloom activates poison heal giving it a free 12.5% a turn, without anything other than switching in, which is a common play. Your opponent intends for the poison to be a hinderance, not helpful.

What about breloom with poison orb? That is a combo. Poison orb + poison heal +(often) protect for a combination to certain effect. Other things that aren't synergistic would be any stat up + BP (a combo), switching into a status with a natural cure pokemon, SR phazers, wish protect, forcing a switch to get a stat up etc.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

a bundle of wrongness

i don't think you have a clue what synergy means which is sad because he even posted a definition at the beginning just for you.

i don't really think synergy is as important in DP as it was in ADV. in DP you can be successful by throwing 6 sweepers together and windmilling your fists. however i think the slower the team is, the more synergy you need. once you start to slow down your offenses in favor of defense, you need to start finding a balance to optimize the two.

 

[Taylor]

I thought maximizing your chances of winning was the goal of any team, which is not strategy nor synergy. It is, however, your primary objective that every player must aim for. The strategy that you utilize to your advantage is one of many different ways of reaching the eventuality of winning the game; and that strategy may have good/bad synergy within.

I agree with Jabba entirely. I certainly believe that we all are more than capable of grouping six, random Pokemon together and still manage to win. In RSE, that is considerably far more difficult task to achieve; it would be much more of an acomplishment, I can assure you of that.

 

[Ancien Régime]

You don't have a clue what synergy is, and you give no evidence otherwise, or anything to disprove me.

Apparently, you do not have a clue what synergy is either. Synergy is NOT single combos like BP, Wish/Protect, etc. Synergy involves all 6 members of your team working together to execute a strategy, whether it's to break defensive walls/resistances to clear the way for something else, to maintain a Baton Pass chain. (full Baton Pass teams are an excellent example of synergy as you cannot slap 5 BPers + sweeper together and win consistently, especially in DP; you have to make sure the BPers work together in unision and support each other)

Putting in bait to pull out a SR weak pokemon isn't synergy, it requires your opponent to choose the SR damage etc. over not switching.

Yes, it is synergy. I have made it so that their designated counter to my attacking pokemon is no LONGER a counter, because they have to switch in and take heavy damage, then switch out when I send in my counter, then switch in again while damaged. Now, their counter is gone, and my attacking pokemon has free rein.

Honestly, did you even read my OP?

 

[IggyBot]

Absolutely nothing that you've said so far is synergy. Having a team that covers weaknesses isn't synergy, because weaknesses and resistences are a common game mechanic, and a basic desired effect. Putting in bait to pull out a SR weak pokemon isn't synergy, it requires your opponent to choose the SR damage etc. over not switching.

What is synergy then? Simple. Switching a breloom into poison spikes would be synergy. Why? The intended effect, poisoning breloom activates poison heal giving it a free 12.5% a turn, without anything other than switching in, which is a common play. Your opponent intends for the poison to be a hinderance, not helpful.

What about breloom with poison orb? That is a combo. Poison orb + poison heal +(often) protect for a combination to certain effect. Other things that aren't synergistic would be any stat up + BP (a combo), switching into a status with a natural cure pokemon, SR phazers, wish protect, forcing a switch to get a stat up etc.

You don't give any example of your definition of "synergy" in this post. You say that Breloom switching into Toxic Spikes is "synergy", but how is that synergizing with the rest of your team? You don't give ANY team example, and don't even give a real example of synergy. So yeah, when Jabba says you don't know what you're talking about, he's right.

I certainly believe that we all are more than capable of grouping six, random Pokemon together and still manage to win

Yes, you can win, but can you win consistantly? Can you consistantly compete against other top tier teams with just six thrown together pokemon?

I've never played ADV, so I can't argue that synergy was harder to achieve/more important/whatever, but I still think that team synergy is important when it comes to winning consistantly in D/P. "Throwing" six pokemon together may get you some wins, but when you do this, you're either making a team that will ultimately fail, or you're inherrently picking six pokemon that work well together anyways, just because it's become a habit when building teams for you. That's my opinion anyways.

 

[Ancien Régime]

Normally, a team with defensive combinations like Skarmory and Cresselia can wall Garchomp. The predicted result >>> Skarm/Cress walling Garchomp. However, Lucario is NOT walled by them, therefore, Lucario deals heavy damage to them. Now, Garchomp can beat the weakened Skarmory/Cresselia - two discrete agents producing an effect greater than the predicted result (Garchomp losing to Skarmory and Cresselia v.s Garchomp making them faint.)

That is what I mean by synergy.

That's what I'm trying to get at.

 

[SnK-arcbound]

Normally, a team with defensive combinations like Skarmory and Cresselia can wall Garchomp. The predicted result >>> Skarm/Cress walling Garchomp. However, Lucario is NOT walled by them, therefore, Lucario deals heavy damage to them. Now, Garchomp can beat the weakened Skarmory/Cresselia - two discrete agents producing an effect greater than the predicted result (Garchomp losing to Skarmory and Cresselia v.s Garchomp making them faint.)

That is what I mean by synergy.

That's what I'm trying to get at.

The predicted result is that garchomp and lucario beat skarm/bliss after taking damage, how is that not the predicted result?

Synergy is 1+1=3. Garchomp and lucario take out skarm/bliss, while it is greater than what either could do by themselves, together they do not exceed their own combined capacity (which is to take out skarm/bliss).

When chomp lucario starts taking out more than they are supposed to, for no other reason than because they are being used together, would be synergy, so add in a third pokemon who walls them.

 

[Bologo]

Synergy eh? Hm, well I normally create synergy on my teams by having pokemon that can cover each other's weaknesses. This makes it so that I'm not forced to address every single threat in the game flawlessly, but allows me to beat them using teamwork. I am a player that depends a lot on prediction to make myself win, but in turn, this helps a lot to open up my teambuilding to other pokemon.

Sometimes I might use 2-pokemon combos that would normally die to a huge threat while they're alone, but they can easily beat them when complemented with an adequate partner. Just like AR's Lucario + Garchomp example.

One of my examples is a combo that I use to beat Garchomp on one of my latest teams:

It includes Jumpluff + Heatran. Jumpluff comes in and Encores the Earthquakes/Swords Dances that Garchomp tries to do, since it's faster, and it can proceed to Sleep/Leech Seed him if he doesn't switch out. Heatran can take any Outrages/Dragon Claws + Fire Fangs that can kill Jumpluff, and Heatran is Scarfed and therefore can kill with HP Ice.

That's an example of synergy in a team, where it turns what would normally be the fucked when alone, into the fuckers together.

One thing that I always say whenever you're making a team, is to have a plan A, B, C, D, E, and F. That means, that although having a strategy is nice, your team should NOT fall apart completely if that strategy fails. Everyone on the team should be doing SOMETHING. Everyone on the team should have their own way that they can win the match if your strategy falls through, because you don't want to put yourself into a situation where you have to forfeit, simply because, for example, your final pokemon didn't even have an attacking move, and therefore couldn't hurt the opponent. In my opinion, having no attacking moves on a pokemon is an absolute no-no.

Remember, pokemon is a team game. This is why I also feel that it's a horrible idea to base your entire strategy around one pokemon, or to depend one pokemon for that strategy to work. For example, Baton Passing from Ninjask is okay, but it's got to be the worst idea in the world to make the entire remainder of your team Baton Passing recipients. That's not synergy, and at most, it's very poor synergy, since chances are, a lot of the members don't actually work very well together, and they can't really operate as a team very well without Ninjask.

 

[TAY]

"2 pokemon" does NOT make synergy. People have Celetran on their teams and think that creates synergy when, while they work well together, that does not make a unified team strategy.

I disagree with this. By your own definition:

The synergy comes from each pokemon opening the way for the success of another pokemon.

Two pokemon which work well together do in fact create synergy. Just because you don't have all six members of your team working together in perfect harmony, it doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have a high level of team synergy. Celebi/Heatran/Gyarados works even better than Celebi/Heatran alone. While it may be more synergistic to have more team members involved, having a powerful two-pokemon combination is definitely an example of synergy.

This becomes even more clear when viewing offensive examples. Let's look at CM Jirachi/Dugtrio. The only pokemon which can repeatedly stop CM Jirachi are Heatran and Tyranitar, both of which are easily beaten by Dugtrio. That is certainly, "a pokemon opening the way for the success of another pokemon." Now if we add in Heatran, who also appreciates having Heatran/TTar/Starmie out of the way, we have even more synergy; however this does not take away from the fact that, even with only Dugtrio and Jirachi, the whole is clearly greater than the sum of the parts, which is synergy in a nutshell.

So yes, using two pokemon which work well together and which may or may not have a combined name does create a level of synergy (though its effectiveness obviously depends on the player).


Also, let's not forget that synergy need not be limited to only pokemon. Certain moves, specifically field effects, can create a high level of synergy for one pokemon or for an entire team. I'm sure many people have seen the recent "Light Clay Deoxys + Sweepers" teams floating around, and things like Toxic Spikes + Suicune are also very powerful.

Honestly I think a lot of people are making this out to be a lot more difficult that it actually is. Synergy is a pretty damn simple concept that I think at least 80% of players have a good grasp of.

 

[Taylor]

Yes, you can win, but can you win consistantly? Can you consistantly compete against other top tier teams with just six thrown together pokemon?

Perhaps not, but your everyday tournament match consists of two players aiming for a single win. There's no need for consistancy in one match, right? I don't have any guaranteed results or anything, but I can assure you that six Pokemon - that are completely random - in RSE OU was far more difficult to win on a regular basis than DP OU.