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I was struggling to stay 1.6k rating with my old team which consist of Latios, Sylveon, Garchomp, Mega Gengar, thundurus, Gyarados(I call it the true love team LOL). It is not working well, so I decide to make some major changes to it.
Here is the new team:
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out
I thought Kangaskhan is a really strong pokemon to fit into most team. Was thinking of going a bulky one with 100~252HP, since I am planning to use a tailwind team, but decide to go jolly just to be safe.
Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Hyper Beam
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
I keep my Sylveon since It can act as a good counter to fighting type pokemon which pose a big threat to my kangaskhan. It also to hit dragon type hard which consist a lot of strong pokemon. Psyshock to hit poison type hard and Hyper beam so I can KO Mega kangaskhan in one turn.
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Disable
- Will-O-Wisp
Gengar is one of my favorite pokemon since gen1, I put it into this team mainly because I like this pokemon. It act as good counter against grass type and pyschic type pokemon, which my team lack. Standard utility Gengar build, nothing much to say
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 212 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind/Snarl?
- Scald
- Tailwind
- Ice Beam
Since this is a tailwind team, I definitely need a tailwind user. I want something that has some bulk and is able to dish out some damage. Was thinking of using latios at first, since it can use tailwind and dish out very good damage, but after a few matches I notice that my latios just die right away after using tailwind and have almost no chance to do much damage at all. Whimsicott is too squishy and beside tailwind, I already have Gengar and thundurus doing his job. So suicune seems like a solid choice to me. I am still thinking whether to use snarl or calm mind for my last skill, both provide me with extra bulk against special attackers, calm mind increase my damage output while snarl can act as a support skill, tough decision.
Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Knock Off
Landorus's job is simple. To deal with sun team and Steel type pokemon since I lack pokemon to hit those 2 type super effective.
Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Swagger
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
My Last pokemon Thundurus. Was thinking of going a bulkier build, but I dont really want to have other prankster user to set up on me, so I need it to be as fast as possible to taunt opponent. Swagger and thunder wave to just annoy opponent and finally, I need max special attack so as to deal with rain team, which I think is very common among opponent I fight with.
That is all for my team. All advice are welcome, hope I explain it clear so you can understand where I am coming from and advice me on how to improve the team. Thanks in advance!
Firs BS RMT in forever and it's not Singles. Ofc lol
Anyways, the one thing I can tell you is Landog really doesn't need Jolly ever. Especially when you have Tailwind and a para spreader, Jolly Scarf is excessive. Even once you switch to Adamant 252 Spe EVs isn't really necessary. You can look for a better spread, or I can give you the one Nelson Tangela graciously gave me when I started doing doubles somewhat seriously.
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Def / 4 SpD / 148 Spe
Here are the EVs. I'm more particular about EVs in Singles where calcs are easier to do. All I remember is this lives Bisharp's Sucker Punch even though it'll be +1 after Intimidate.
This is actually not a bad looking team, but there's several very glaring issues that are likely contributing to your lack of success. First off, you have absolutely no Protect users, which is really bad in Doubles. This makes it impossible for you to deal with other Fake Out users reliably and makes you very vulnerable to double targetting, speed control and Trick Room. In terms of specific suggestions:
Nothing wrong with bog standard Kangaskhan, I would consider Low Kick over Power-Up Punch though. PuP is not as effective if you lack a redirector such as Amoonguss or Togekiss, since Kangaskhan's average speed makes it an huge target given the lack of Protect, even with Sucker Punch at your disposal. Low Kick also hits Ferrothorn harder, which kinda walls your team at the moment.
Choice Specs Sylveon is a fine set, though I would consider Protect over Hyper Beam and Pixie Plate over Choice Specs, to give you some flexibility while still launching strong Hyper Voices. Choice Specs Sylveon definitely loves Tailwind but it doesn't need Specs to be dangerous under Tailwind and the safety of Protect is very useful for your team. A spread of 140 HP / 252 SpA / 116 Spe also lets you outrun Jolly Mega Salamence under Tailwind which is useful to make effective use of said Tailwind, though otherwise a spread of 188 HP / 68 Def / 252 SpA is good for surviving Return from Jolly Mega Kangaskhan.
Your team also looks like it might benefit from Togekiss over Suicune if you decide to keep Power Up Punch on Kangaskhan and/or Choice Specs on Sylveon though. Togekiss offers much appreciated redirection to deal with the lack of Protect users a bit and also offers Tailwind + a Ground immunity that lets Landorus-T use Earthquake freely next to it. The following set is what I'd recommend:
Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 4 SpA / 28 SpD / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
- Follow Me
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
- Protect
This is mainly the analysis Togekiss set, but it's a great spread that lets it outspeed Rotom-W (and Adamant Scarf Lando-T after Tailwind). Air Slash lets you fish for flinches under Tailwind and benefits from Thunder Wave from Thundurus. Tailwind naturally lets you maintain the Tailwind support you want, and Protect lets you scout and punish double targets, which your opponent might be more prone to doing after a Follow Me. Sitrus Berry is preferred here since you can't fit Roost here easily, though Rocky Helmet is nice if you feel you need the extra Kangaskhan deterrent.
If you prefer to keep Suicune, I'd recommend against using Calm Mind with Tailwind. You have few chances to ever set up with Suicune when your primary goal is to get Tailwind up, and it's much better off supporting its team this way. Definitely use Snarl over Calm Mind. Protect is just as viable to patch up your Protect problem too. Another thing you should do is drop Leftovers for Sitrus Berry, battles in Battle Spot Doubles are usually not long enough for Leftovers to be worth it and the immediate healing from Sitrus is far more useful, especially on something that lacks Protect. EV spread looks good though, OHKO'ing Mega Salamence and outspeeding Adamant Scarf Landorus-T are good so that spread is fine.
Gengar feels slightly out of place but it does offer very useful offensive utility and Kangaskhan check, as well as making for a good lead alongside Landorus-T in the Kangaskhan matchup. I would use Protect over Will-O-Wisp though. Both support moves are useful but Gengar really likes Protect to keep its Focus Sash intact if possible, which is useful against Scrappy Fake Out from Kangaskhan. Disable is also not nearly as effective on Focus Sash Gengar than it is on Mega Gengar sets.
The rest of your team is Double Genies, honestly no need to replace those two. It's actually not true that you don't need Jolly Landorus-T ever, a decent amount run Jolly but Adamant is preferred for Landorus-T, especially since you're running Tailwind anyway. So yeah, Adamant over Jolly. I also like the look of Superpower over Knock Off here though, for hitting Kangaskhan, as well Ferrothorn which this team actually hates. EV spread doesn't need to change but Omastar68's spread is actually a solid option, Life Orb Bisharp is a pain if it gets a boost and being able to survive it would be very useful in an emergency. For Thundurus, I'd personally drop Swagger for Hidden Power Ice. While Swagger isn't a bad fit, it's better on a bulky Thundurus that's usually more likely to stick around for longer. You're running a Life Orb set which wants to threaten stuff, and HP Ice is generally just good for hitting Landorus-T and Mega Salamence which is useful here. If you don't have an HP Ice Thundurus I'd recommend the Wifi forum, it's a popular Pokemon so it shouldn't be too hard to find one these days. Otherwise you can try Protect, which has some surprise factor since Thundurus doesn't usually run Protect.
This is actually a longer post than I was anticipating, but yeah this team is a good start. Hopefully these suggestions help you push even further beyond 1600s.
Thanks for the advice, it is really helpful. You mentioned several time in the post that ferrothorn would post a great problem to my team and also that gengar being out of place here. So would replacing Gengar with Entei or Heatran a good idea here?
Thanks for the advice, it is really helpful. You mentioned several time in the post that ferrothorn would post a great problem to my team and also that gengar being out of place here. So would replacing Gengar with Entei or Heatran a good idea here?
I guess I made it sound like that, but nah you don't need to overextend and run Heatran if you don't want to since Ferrothorn is nowhere near as common as something like Kangaskhan or Cresselia, which Gengar still checks effectively. I would definitely recommend one or both of the Fighting move changes on Kangaskhan and Landorus-T though, because Ferrothorn is a pain for your team to beat. Gengar does offer utility for this team though, but if you try Heatran I'd definitely replace Gengar for it. Something like:
This is the standard analysis Heatran. Contrary to what I said about Suicune, Heatran is one of few Pokemon that can effectively run Leftovers since it tends to stick around on the field for a long time, especially in conjunction with Substitute. If you run Togekiss I'd definitely recommend Leftovers with Substitute, but otherwise Shuca Berry and Flash Cannon is fine options. The Speed lets you outspeed Rotom-W, but you can run 252 Spe if you'd prefer since Heatran mirrors are a losing battle if you're slower.
I guess I made it sound like that, but nah you don't need to overextend and run Heatran if you don't want to since Ferrothorn is nowhere near as common as something like Kangaskhan or Cresselia, which Gengar still checks effectively. I would definitely recommend one or both of the Fighting move changes on Kangaskhan and Landorus-T though, because Ferrothorn is a pain for your team to beat. Gengar does offer utility for this team though, but if you try Heatran I'd definitely replace Gengar for it. Something like:
This is the standard analysis Heatran. Contrary to what I said about Suicune, Heatran is one of few Pokemon that can effectively run Leftovers since it tends to stick around on the field for a long time, especially in conjunction with Substitute. If you run Togekiss I'd definitely recommend Leftovers with Substitute, but otherwise Shuca Berry and Flash Cannon is fine options. The Speed lets you outspeed Rotom-W, but you can run 252 Spe if you'd prefer since Heatran mirrors are a losing battle if you're slower.
Wouldn't it make more sense to take 8 EVs out of HP and put 4 in each defense? That's a point of Def and SpD for just one point of HP. I was running calcs on Heatran earlier, and putting all the EVs into HP instead of a tiny bit in each defense hurts bulk.
Well damn, something I can actually help with. Let's start with Psynergy's suggestions: Pixie Plate Sylveon is a huge buff, and imho one of it's best sets in Doubles. Psynergy's spread is fine; I think he switched Def and HP though.
Would suggest:
This set accomplishes a few things. It lets Sylveon attack freely, and also greatly increses its utility by shedding Shadow Ball. I know Shadow Ball hits Aegislash and offers great neutral coverage blah blah, but I've shot down Shadow Ball on so many Sylveon it's not even funny anymore. Shadow Ball does absolutely nothing constructive, ever. Against Aegislash, it simply fails to OHKO outside of critical + specs but let's be serious. You also run a very high chance of activating Weakness Policy, and believe me you don't want to to stomach a +2 Aegislash when you have absolutely no counters to it beyond a Landorus that has to lock itself into EQ to even hope to threaten it, and a Sucker Punch Kangaskhan that can be freely Subbed / King's Shield against. Only other targets are Gengar, which takes far more from Psyshock anyway, and obscure Ghosts like Driflblim that can't stomach Hyper Voice anyway.
Helping Hand allows Kangaskhan, Thundurus, Gengar, and possibly even Landog to greatly increase their list of KOs, and thanks to priority ensures Sylveon will accomplish something even when walled (ie, Aegislash, Heatran), or about to be outran and KO'd. Hyper Beam can be used as an emergency stop to opposing Kangaskhan, and even bulky resists like Char-Y and Amoonguss are losing over 50% of their HP.
Spread outruns max Speed Thundurus in Tailwind (your exact set, actually), outpaces a few things unsupported like defensive Politoed, opposing Sylveon, and most Machamp. The bulk prevents Adamant MegaKhan from KOing you with Return (ok, it has like, 2% chance to KO) and I assume Psynergy just got the EVs switched, lol. The Sp. atk is largely a remainder but does, funny enough, guarentee the OHKO on 4/0 Mega Khan with Hyper beam.
Power-up Punch (PuP) on Khan isn't really a bad thing to run: it lets Khan beat Rocky Helmet Cresselia (set up on something NOT named "Cresselia", "Ferrothorn", or "Garchomp") which otherwise shits on your entire life. Also makes a disgustingly hard to stop snowball sweep in Tailwind; tbh you can PuP + Tailwind in the same turn and just watch them burn. However, extensive combat against high ranking Japanese players has taught me that a lot of high-ranked ones on BS Dubz like to run Protect: stops Khan's constant issue of getting Status'd and double-targeted. I know it sounds absurd, but a Khan set running Double-Edge / Protect / PuP / Crunch was one of the fiercest bitches I ever killed. Crunch WRECKS the usual approach of "Ghost with WoW", Cresselia, and Intimidate by simply preying upon Khan's usual answers and undoing Intimidate via PuP, while also doing what Khan does best: spam overpowered as shit Return and generaly command a lot of attention, while punishing people for clicking Sub / Moonlight / etc. in Khan's face expecting Sucker Punch.
Gengar, Disable is funny but not that useful. Gengar is a nightmare in Doubles; I could rework your entire team into the horrors of Mega Khan + Mega Gengar but I'd prefer to not see those kinds of teams. lol.
I would suggest Destiny Bond or Icy Wind over Disable on Gengar. Destiny Bond + Sash is usually a free kill (unless they burn / sand you to death), and lets Gengar go down with something accomplished. Icy Wind is annoying as fuck on Gengar as well, keeping the Speed advantage in your favor nearly always, whille breaking Sashes and trolling redirect + setup stratagies. The choice is up to you, can't really go wrong.
Suicune can do a lot of neat little things. Scald + Tailwind is a given on basically any set. Yours is an offensive Bold set, which is perfectly fine. Ice Beam for a quick kill on Mega Mence and Landog helps, but you do have the option of running Scald / Tailwind / Icy Wind / Snarl and a slightly faster, bulkier spread. It's a fierce way to control the battlefield, by simply threatening so many things all at once and it can't be Taunted. Physical mons fear the Burn of Scald, special mons have a huge weakness to Snarl in general (though you do have to watch for WP Aegislash and Milotic), and Icy Wind + Tailwind gives you flexibility in Speed control options by countering opposing Tailwind teams and ruining teams reliant on Taunt to stop Suicune. I won't promote the set, as there's simply nothing wrong with yours. Snarl would be my advice; CM only really works on mons that are bulky and can heal themselves reliably in Doubles. Sylveon (CM ChestoRest), Cresselia, Latias, and Volcarona (QD+Roost) are really the only things that can get away with it. Suicune could do CM ChestoRest but that straps a lot of moveslots + item.
Landorus-T, I personally never reccomend Scarf as I find it very easy to take advantage of Scarfed Landog. It's too easy to wall, and you will cringe the first time you're forced to EQ yourself. AV, Yache, and Expert Belt all have uses, and don't force you to Protect + EQ or switch in Gengar / Thundy. It's also a highly obvious set most people are very capable of handling. Yes, Scarf Rock Slide wins far more matches than it should, but being stuck on Rock Slide in front of Ferrothorn, Suicune, cresselia, Garchomp, other Landog, or Heatran sucks. Being stuck on EQ always sucks. It's not a bad set or anything, I just... can't advocate Scarf EQ ever, lol. Try the spread Omastar posted though.
Togekiss I cannot suggest simply because it it removes your sole Ice resistance and adds HUGE ice weakness with double genie, which struggles enough with random Ice Beams and Icy Wind as is. Togekiss is fun, don't get me wrong: pairs hilariously with Aegislash and Kangaskhan but it'd basically demand a big rework of your entire team. I would stick with Suicune for now.
LO Thundy is a nasty set: very shocking, literally, when it actually does something other than click "T-Wave". I'm cool with that, despite nearly always dying to it. In fact, mere minutes ago, I killed a LO Thundy running Thunderbolt / T-Wave / Protect / HP Ice. Would reccomend that set. Protect on Thundy really messes people up; much like Kangaskhan, most people will not hesitate to double tap it, and it still does 95% of the things that Thundy always does.
tl;dr moar Protect, Suicune should have Snarl, Gengar needs a better move over Disable, Sylveon wants the spoiler'd set, Khan can change up it's movepool a bit but tbh it's fine, Landog probably wants a new EV spread, Thundy wants Protect + HP Ice over Taunt + Swagger since it's an offensive set.
