Pokémon Tapu Lele

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Isn't AV muk a good counter to it? Even then, just because it has very few theoretical counters, there are still a lot of ways to deal with it. You guys are acting as if every set is choice specs. It has to make some hard ass predictions to even have the chance of 2hkoing every poke. And once a poke dies, it isn't too difficult to revenge kill it.
 
Isn't AV muk a good counter to it? Even then, just because it has very few theoretical counters, there are still a lot of ways to deal with it. You guys are acting as if every set is choice specs. It has to make some hard ass predictions to even have the chance of 2hkoing every poke. And once a poke dies, it isn't too difficult to revenge kill it.
My understanding is that Tapu Lele is supposed to wallbreaker. Therefore, if it has to be revenge killed to be dealt with, that means it's already done its job. Also, good luck revenge killing Specs Lele without a Dark type coming in on its Psychic STAB it's locked itself into. No priority renders that iffy speed stat kind of a moot point, especially if running a Scarf set. Not to mention, E Belt, Mind Plate, etc sets could theoretically bluff a Choice item, lure that Dark type in, and wipe it out with Moonblast.

Certainly not to say this thing is broken. I don't think a ban is in order, but this thing is going to be a defining force in the meta at the very least.
 
My understanding is that Tapu Lele is supposed to wallbreaker. Therefore, if it has to be revenge killed to be dealt with, that means it's already done its job. Also, good luck revenge killing Specs Lele without a Dark type coming in on its Psychic STAB it's locked itself into. No priority renders that iffy speed stat kind of a moot point, especially if running a Scarf set. Not to mention, E Belt, Mind Plate, etc sets could theoretically bluff a Choice item, lure that Dark type in, and wipe it out with Moonblast.

Certainly not to say this thing is broken. I don't think a ban is in order, but this thing is going to be a defining force in the meta at the very least.
95 Speed narrows the range of things that can kill it even if it does not have Scarf. It seems to be like Hoopa-Unbound with a better speed tier, better defensive typing, and protection from priority. While Hoopa-Unbound and Tapu Lele do not have many counters, Lele's high enough speed, decent bulk, and immunity from priority make it more difficult to check.

Magaerna, Muk Alola, Mega-Metagross, Genesect, Celesteela, Skarmory, and Heatran are the only good checks that come to my mind. (I assume that Lele has Hidden Power Fire and not Thunderbolt.) In the case of Heatran, a psychic attack could pop its balloon, leaving it vulnerable to the ground-type Pokemon that the Lele user would likely have to deal with steel types.


Choice Band Scizor seemed to be the gold standard for being anti-(pure)fairy since it has additional utility as being a U-Turner if it is not running the Swords Dance set. Scizor would have the dubious distinction of being a steel type that cannot check Lele since it couldn't use its bullet punch.

I really feel that Lele and Koko make Genesect an important part of the meta. Scarf Iron Head becomes Bullet Punch.

If I were to speculate about the decision making process of the OU Council, I think this think Genesect isn't quick banned because it provide a way for offensive teams to check this thing (but not counter it). Defensive teams can rely on some steel type. Scizor somewhat checks Koko if it has a low enough HP, but it is not a good check for Lele if it is not choice locked.

I don't think Genesect deserves to be quick-banned even though it is a fairly popular sentiment.

Offensive unevolved Scizor takes a chunk from Lele's Psychic.


252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 133-157 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- 16.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock




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Here is a comparison for Scarf Lele versus wall-breaking Hoopa-Unbound (with Life Orb), Kingdra (with Specs under Rain), and Serperior.

(With Terrain)
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regigigas: 205-243 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regigigas: 180-213 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

(With Terrain + Life Orb)
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regigigas: 266-316 (62.7 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regigigas: 234-277 (55.1 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regigigas: 238-281 (56.1 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regigigas: 211-250 (49.7 - 58.9%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regigigas: 211-250 (49.7 - 58.9%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

(Under rain)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regigigas: 330-388 (77.8 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regigigas: 271-319 (63.9 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regigigas: 271-321 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

As for Kingdra, it relies on another Pokemon otherwise it would be too slow and lack power, while Lele just needs its ability.

Serperior is vulnerable to priority, except Aqua Jet, and Priority Brave Bird was a thing last generation. Also, Grass is arguably less spamable than psychic. Serperior also needs to successfully use Leaf Storm in order to be that powerful.


As for its Special Bulk

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 237-280 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 262-310 (93.2 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 214-253 (76.1 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 286-338 (101.7 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 234-276 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Volcanion Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 192-226 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

versus

252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 241-285 (79.8 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 313-370 (103.6 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO



So, one needs a Pokemon with a high base special, STAB, a choice item, and highly-powered inaccurate move (although Volcanion's Steam Eruption isn't inaccurate) to kill it. Volcanion cannot outspeed Lele, unless Volcanion is running a Scarf while Lele isn't. Stab fully invested neutral moves could take it down, but it a coverage move doesn't have the power to so.

Physical Bulk:

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 225-265 (80 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 258-304 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 222-262 (79 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

A fully invested, STAB high-powered attack cannot knock it out. Conkeldurr and Landorus-Therian have high base attack while Garchomp is slightly lower. A Scarf coverage move is not enough to kill it.

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What Pokémon has everyone been using to support Lele? I know Lele supports fast, frail sweepers quite well, but what supports lele? I find it is either easily exploited due to being choice-locked (psychic gets blocked by dark types, which also have the luxury of STAB pursuit, and anything but psyshock gets sponged by Chansey, which is quite common), or it is running life orb, in which case it is easily whittled down from life orb damage plus toxic/recover (softboiled etc.) Stall.

I was thinking of screech dugtrio for Chansey, but it seems a bit iffy. Although the only thing that comes to my mind right now that deals well with the two is weavile.

And since I've mentioned it, which set do you think is the best?
 
What Pokémon has everyone been using to support Lele? I know Lele supports fast, frail sweepers quite well, but what supports lele? I find it is either easily exploited due to being choice-locked (psychic gets blocked by dark types, which also have the luxury of STAB pursuit, and anything but psyshock gets sponged by Chansey, which is quite common), or it is running life orb, in which case it is easily whittled down from life orb damage plus toxic/recover (softboiled etc.) Stall.

I was thinking of screech dugtrio for Chansey, but it seems a bit iffy. Although the only thing that comes to my mind right now that deals well with the two is weavile.
I suppose one should run other Pokemon with strong ground-type attacks as panacea against Steel-types and Muk Alola. Fighting, Thunder, and Fire are nice secondary attacks to deal with Skarmory and Ferrothorn and fighting for Dark types in general.

You should also remember that it has Moonblast from hitting from a 130 Special Attack Stat. That's still pretty powerful if there are dark-types around.

And since I've mentioned it, which set do you think is the best?
I suppose whatever fits one's team or playing style. You could say the same about Hoopa-Unbound last generation.

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There are some checks for this Pokemon, and I underestimated them. They are mostly metal types (with the exception of Muk Alola) but Chansey doesn't the Psyshock Life Orb variant. Maybe something could be Assault Vested such as Tyranitar and Muk Alola. I also forgot to mention Bisharp.

Lol, this is also a viable check for Belly Drum Azumarill unless it benefited from speed passing.
 
I suppose one should run other Pokemon with strong ground-type attacks as panacea against Steel-types and Muk Alola. Fighting, Thunder, and Fire are nice secondary attacks to deal with Skarmory and Ferrothorn and fighting for Dark types in general.

You should also remember that it has Moonblast from hitting from a 130 Special Attack Stat. That's still pretty powerful if there are dark-types around.


I suppose whatever fits one's team or playing style. You could say the same about Hoopa-Unbound last generation.

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There are some checks for this Pokemon, and I underestimated them. They are mostly metal types (with the exception of Muk Alola) but Chansey doesn't the Psyshock Life Orb variant. Maybe something could be Assault Vested such as Tyranitar and Muk Alola. I also forgot to mention Bisharp.

Lol, this is also a viable check for Belly Drum Azumarill unless it benefited from speed passing.
I've been using the trapping duo (Magnezone and Dugtrio) since Lele struggles to break steel types.
 
How important is Modest for the Specs/LO/Cm sets?
I'm about to SR for a HP fire one but torn between Modest and Timid. I'm Currently favoring Timid since it seems to be better for the scarf sets.
So does modest nab some import Ohkos or can i just run Timid on those other sets without major issues?
 
How effective would Psychium Z be on Lele? I don't want to be choice-locked into Psychic, and I personally have an aversion to Life Orb if there is no way to reliably recover the recoil or negate it, so I am drawn to Psychium Z. I haven't tested it on Showdown yet.
How important is Modest for the Specs/LO/Cm sets?
I'm about to SR for a HP fire one but torn between Modest and Timid. I'm Currently favoring Timid since it seems to be better for the scarf sets.
So does modest nab some import Ohkos or can i just run Timid on those other sets without major issues?
I personally prefer modest. SM metagame is quite a bit slower and bulkier with things like Celesteela, Toxapex, and (as an example) Mudsdale, so I see little reason to try outpacing foes. I say, go for as much power as possible. Lele seems more like a wallbreaker than a sweeper to me.
Plus, I never try to outpace a scarf user without priority or my own scarfer. My experience tells me that that is a bad idea. Then again, Lele give most Pokemon a 5-8 turn Quick Guard so priority isn't something to use if you run Lele.
 
How effective would Psychium Z be on Lele? I don't want to be choice-locked into Psychic, and I personally have an aversion to Life Orb if there is no way to reliably recover the recoil or negate it, so I am drawn to Psychium Z. I haven't tested it on Showdown yet.
Well i'll attempt to make a few calcs

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 301-355 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 241-285 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 208-246 (69.1 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 208-246 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Magearna: 169-200 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

I'm using the Blissey line and the OU sets for the purposes of a baseline. Magearna is used as I think it might be the most relevant known counter that can be hit. Psychic is used as the base move for I assume it would be their most common STAB (175 BP)

Do note that the high SpA would KO most enemies if it hits supereffectibly so it might be a waste on those and of course Dark-types would be immune
 
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Well i'll attempt to make a few calcs

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 301-355 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 241-285 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 208-246 (69.1 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 208-246 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Magearna: 169-200 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

I'm using the Blissey line and the OU sets for the purposes of a baseline. Magearna is used as I think it might be the most relevant known counter that can be hit. Psychic is used as the base move for I assume it would be their most common STAB (175 BP)

Do note that the high SpA would KO most enemies if it hits supereffectibly so it might be a waste on those and of course Dark-types would be immune
Chansey and Blissey can pretty much laugh it off with softboiled then. But the big hit on Magearna is interesting. Do the calcs include Assault Vest for Magearna? If they don't, then I don't see Psychium Z being too helpful.
Also, do the calcs include Psychic Terrain's boost?
 
Chansey and Blissey can pretty much laugh it off with softboiled then. But the big hit on Magearna is interesting. Do the calcs include Assault Vest for Magearna? If they don't, then I don't see Psychium Z being too helpful.
Also, do the calcs include Psychic Terrain's boost?
No Assault Vest, and the respective terrain was on by default when i made the calcs.
 
Magaerna, Muk Alola, Mega-Metagross, Genesect, Celesteela, Skarmory, and Heatran are the only good checks that come to my mind. (I assume that Lele has Hidden Power Fire and not Thunderbolt.) In the case of Heatran, a psychic attack could pop its balloon, leaving it vulnerable to the ground-type Pokemon that the Lele user would likely have to deal with steel types.
Victini, Jirachi, SpD Doublade, and Choice Scarf Steel types are all good/great checks for lele.
 
No Assault Vest, and the respective terrain was on by default when i made the calcs.
I see. Thanks for the calcs man.
Try Z-Focus Blast. It's a decent option for breaking through checks such as Mega Metagross, Assault Vest Muk, etc.

A Z Crystal can't be Knocked Off, which also gives Lele some protection from Knock Off.
I didn't even think about Fightium Z (think that's what its called). I'll give that a try.
 
You'll have a harder time against Celesteela and Skarmory, so I wouldn't recommend it unless you run Tbolt on the same set. Even then, if you're just afraid of missing, you can use Fight-Z Focus Blast as discussed above.
 
How viable is hidden power ground on Lele,
or is focus blast going to be superior in most cases, despite its iffy accuracy
HP fire is generally the preferred one, primarily for Scizor and Ferrothorn. Focus blast can be used with it to hit Heatran, and do more damage to Ferrothorn in rain. Hidden power ground is almost solely for Heatran, and feels like a waste. Besides, even psychic or psyshock deals chunks with life orb or specs. Then there is Z moves, which also don't miss, and provide solid KOs on its checks.
 
I posted this in the Z-move discussion thread a few days ago, but I think this would be useful here too.

I've been trying out Fightnium Z on Tapu Lele, and I've found it to be a pretty decent option that lets you hit both Heatran and Scizor, alongside Skarmory and non-specially defensive variants of Celesteela.

Tapu Lele @ Fightnium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast

After the CM boost, even with Timid Tapu Lele can really hurt things that otherwise wall it with All-Out Pummeling:

+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0+ SpD Skarmory: 379-446 (113.8 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 279-329 (83.7 - 98.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 309-364 (89.8 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 590-696 (182 - 214.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Celesteela: 307-362 (77.1 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 448-528 (130.6 - 153.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 442-522 (125.5 - 148.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Modest can be run instead to increase the OHKO chances on Celesteela and specially defensive Skarmory, while also having a chance to OHKO non-AV Muk:

+1 252+ SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Celesteela: 338-398 (84.9 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 307-362 (92.1 - 108.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Muk-Alola: 339-399 (81.8 - 96.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Obviously you wouldn't send it right out against any of these, but if any of them switch in expecting a choice item, they need to decide whether they want to risk staying in and getting KO'd or switch out to something else that will get maimed by its STABs. And so long as it isn't running LO or Choice Specs, Heatran fails to KO Tapu Lele after a CM boost while you KO back:

252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 170-204 (60.4 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Psyshock is only listed for Chansey. Even so, if you manage to get a couple more CM boosts in against Chansey All-out Pummeling can take it down:

+2 252+ SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 578-682 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 658-776 (93.4 - 110.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

It still struggles against AV Muk and Magearna, but it can still wear them down if Tapu Lele is stuck facing them:

+1 252+ SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 226-267 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 201-237 (55.2 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Naturally it still has a harder time against faster checks like Metagross and Mimikyu, but given that it can beat many of its slower checks, I think Fightnium Z is definitely a decent item to run.
 
Well if you put it into perspective if you skill swap: Psychic terrain gets reset, you gain the enemies ability, and you remove the original ability of the enemy. That's 2 good things and potential 3. Even if you don't get something good for you are most likely taking away something good from the enemy as well.
Yes, Skill Swap has unique potential with Tapu Lele! I do wonder if it would ever become widely used. Smogon's collective methology understandably includes a high standard regarding which of the 'tinkering'/alteration moves are valuable, and Skill Swap is not necessarily within that standard. Should such a move be limited in its efficacy then it may as well not take the space of a more reliable one. However with Lele it certainly might be quite functional and powerful, and not easily predicted due to the logical abundance Scarf and Specs Leles. Swapping Beast Boost to Lele is just one example!
 
This is a fun set that is pretty nice
Tapu Lele @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/ 4 SpD
Timid/Modest Nature
-Skill Swap
-Moonblast/Focus Blast
-Psychic/Psyshock
-Thunderbolt/Calm Mind/Shadow Ball
This set functions as a Psychium Z lele + Z skill swap( Z skill swap is +1 speed, which could be really helpful against offensive builds.) It abuses Psychic Terrain to clean past offensive teams without a reliable way to revenge kill it, particularly if paired with memento support. Timid Nature outspeeds + Speed pheromosa while modest maximizes damage output.
Pros
. Strong Special Attack stat, abuses Psychic Terrain in both aspects.
. Decent Spdef stat allows it to set up on a lot against Pokemon like Greninja-Ash, keldeo, special pheromosa(before a quiver dance) , Tapu Koko, Tapu Fini etc.
. Still dents balance builds and can also pressure stall builds, trying to get a kill before duggy traps. It also brings dugtrio to sash.
. The rise of keldeo helps it a lot
. Interestingly, can reset up Psychic Surge by skill swapping after the turns run out.
. Skill Swap steals many abilities which are important for lele.
Cons
- Scarfers like Niheligo outspeed it after a speed boost.
- Mega Mawile at full health forces it out, the best you can do is skill swap or dent it.
- You lose a coverage move
- You still get revengetrapped by Dugtrio
- Max Health bronzong allow annoy this set, which is on a rise.
 
This is a fun set that is pretty nice
Tapu Lele @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/ 4 SpD
Timid/Modest Nature
-Skill Swap
-Moonblast/Focus Blast
-Psychic/Psyshock
-Thunderbolt/Calm Mind/Shadow Ball
This set functions as a Psychium Z lele + Z skill swap( Z skill swap is +1 speed, which could be really helpful against offensive builds.) It abuses Psychic Terrain to clean past offensive teams without a reliable way to revenge kill it, particularly if paired with memento support. Timid Nature outspeeds + Speed pheromosa while modest maximizes damage output.
Pros
. Strong Special Attack stat, abuses Psychic Terrain in both aspects.
. Decent Spdef stat allows it to set up on a lot against Pokemon like Greninja-Ash, keldeo, special pheromosa(before a quiver dance) , Tapu Koko, Tapu Fini etc.
. Still dents balance builds and can also pressure stall builds, trying to get a kill before duggy traps. It also brings dugtrio to sash.
. The rise of keldeo helps it a lot
. Interestingly, can reset up Psychic Surge by skill swapping after the turns run out.
. Skill Swap steals many abilities which are important for lele.
Cons
- Scarfers like Niheligo outspeed it after a speed boost.
- Mega Mawile at full health forces it out, the best you can do is skill swap or dent it.
- You lose a coverage move
- You still get revengetrapped by Dugtrio
- Max Health bronzong allow annoy this set, which is on a rise.
I have a question, what would happen if Lele switches out with a different ability? Would the ability revert back to Psychic Surge?
 
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