Who is better in your opinion: A standard gyarados with taunt or a standard tyranitar with taunt?
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Tauntdos-VS.Taunting Tyranitar
- Thread starter BlitzTheReaper
- Start date
Gyarados has three things going for it in my opinion.
First it has a better trait. Not only does intimidate help bolster his allready impressive defenses, but it doesn't have the drawback of hurting other memebers of your team like sandstream does.
Second, the typing has a more beneficial 4x weakness in electric (because grounds get a free switchin and things like electivire can get a boost) and a handy immunity that helps switchins.
Third, and this is mostly just about tyranitar, but with its wide movepool options and options available to tyranitar it really has better things to do than taunt. CB and Mixed sets are so much more threatening than the DD variety that DD versions are usually sacrificing either versatility or power. Gyarados doesn't really have much else to do besides taunt. Tyranitar has better things to do.
First it has a better trait. Not only does intimidate help bolster his allready impressive defenses, but it doesn't have the drawback of hurting other memebers of your team like sandstream does.
Second, the typing has a more beneficial 4x weakness in electric (because grounds get a free switchin and things like electivire can get a boost) and a handy immunity that helps switchins.
Third, and this is mostly just about tyranitar, but with its wide movepool options and options available to tyranitar it really has better things to do than taunt. CB and Mixed sets are so much more threatening than the DD variety that DD versions are usually sacrificing either versatility or power. Gyarados doesn't really have much else to do besides taunt. Tyranitar has better things to do.
Hmmm. Everyone is voting for Gyardados.
Hmm, I wonder which Taunter is better.
Duh...
Every Gyarados out there is a Tauntdos (unless it's a rare CB Gyara, I haven't even seen any of these at all), and that's because it's really good at what it does - DDing up and sweeping. Tyranitar is a completely different beast. Yes, it can Taunt, but that's not its best set, and it can do other things better, like break walls (Boah) or hit something hard no matter what switches in (CB Tar). They have completely different roles.
Sandstream isn't always negative, either. It makes Cradily rival Blissey in terms of special walling, and it isn't OHKOd by any STAB physical move like Bliss.
Duh...
Every Gyarados out there is a Tauntdos (unless it's a rare CB Gyara, I haven't even seen any of these at all), and that's because it's really good at what it does - DDing up and sweeping. Tyranitar is a completely different beast. Yes, it can Taunt, but that's not its best set, and it can do other things better, like break walls (Boah) or hit something hard no matter what switches in (CB Tar). They have completely different roles.
Sandstream isn't always negative, either. It makes Cradily rival Blissey in terms of special walling, and it isn't OHKOd by any STAB physical move like Bliss.
Cradily gets OHKO'd by Infernape, but that's besides the point.
Assuming we're talkinga bout Dragon Dancing for both of these Pokes, there's not even really a use for Taunt on Tyranitar. For Gyarados, it's to stop slower Waters from trying to Toxic or Thunder Wave or Sleep you. It's to prevent other things to not be able to set up on you. But with Tyranitar, what does it need to Taunt? It's biggest fear are actual attacks, which Taunt will in no way help. I mean, why would you need Taunt on Tyranitar when a Dragon Danced, Life Orb Stone Edge does like 70-80% to Skarmory? And the other common Roarers are most likely Donphan, Swampert and Hippowdon, who would much rather Earthquake.
So in conclusion Taunt Gyarados is better as it actually has a use for it.
Now whether or not I think you should use Taunt on Gyarados is a whole different topic!
Assuming we're talkinga bout Dragon Dancing for both of these Pokes, there's not even really a use for Taunt on Tyranitar. For Gyarados, it's to stop slower Waters from trying to Toxic or Thunder Wave or Sleep you. It's to prevent other things to not be able to set up on you. But with Tyranitar, what does it need to Taunt? It's biggest fear are actual attacks, which Taunt will in no way help. I mean, why would you need Taunt on Tyranitar when a Dragon Danced, Life Orb Stone Edge does like 70-80% to Skarmory? And the other common Roarers are most likely Donphan, Swampert and Hippowdon, who would much rather Earthquake.
So in conclusion Taunt Gyarados is better as it actually has a use for it.
Now whether or not I think you should use Taunt on Gyarados is a whole different topic!
Yeah, But its harder to taunt that fucker now, Brave bird does quite a bit of damage :(
By 2-3 dd's gyarados is looking at about 70 - 90% with a 210 - 220 atk skarmory.
Either way, gyara is better at taunting despite tyranitar having better defenses, His typing leaves too many weaknesses.Personally i wouldn't even use taunt/ddance on tyranitar.. Rock polish + Life orb demolishes teams no matter which attacking route you take.
Taunt gyara ftw
By 2-3 dd's gyarados is looking at about 70 - 90% with a 210 - 220 atk skarmory.
Either way, gyara is better at taunting despite tyranitar having better defenses, His typing leaves too many weaknesses.Personally i wouldn't even use taunt/ddance on tyranitar.. Rock polish + Life orb demolishes teams no matter which attacking route you take.
Taunt gyara ftw
All right I'll cut that one then since my question is already answered.
So you can prevent it from Phazing you and get another DDance, letting you outspeed even more things and hopefully OHKO Skarm the next time it comes in?
Anyways, though I find Taunt can be useful on DDtar, it's put to a lot better use on Gyara. Gyara has much better coverage with just 2 attacks and (from my experience) is a lot more likely to get statused (99% of the time when I'm using TTar, people decide to kill him rather than try T-wave/Will O' Wisp), as well as having better stats for dancing.
Tyranitar just has better things to do on its turns than Taunt. Sometimes i see a T-Tar lead with it, to own Stealth Rock leads, but generally speaking, it should be setting up a DD, or hitting hard with SE/STAB moves.
On the other side of the spectrum is Gyarados, who with Intimidate prolly caused a switch on a Physical lead, bringing in most likely a Wall like Dusknoir. Taking away a Wall's heal move and any SR/Spikes it might run is very useful, and having a sturdy/powerful pokemon to back up that strategy works well.
On the other side of the spectrum is Gyarados, who with Intimidate prolly caused a switch on a Physical lead, bringing in most likely a Wall like Dusknoir. Taking away a Wall's heal move and any SR/Spikes it might run is very useful, and having a sturdy/powerful pokemon to back up that strategy works well.
Wow! Only a tiny chunk actually voted for tyranitar. Well this is the first time I've never seen at tie like this that lasted for a long time.
Hmmm. All of you have provided reasonable answers.
Aren't you more likely to do more damage within a hit-and-run system with 1 DD at a time, as the next time there will be no doubt for a kill. It could also mean that you have open up the field for other things to sweep should a random Focus Sash Lucario happen to kill Tyranitar. But then I guess it's all down to preference.
But just know that greed will more times fuck you over than not.
I rarely ever see that type of Lucario, due to the fact that it is noy worth killing your one of your own.
That is besides the point. It was an example that something random could take you down.
Eh, that was an example of why you might taunt Skarm more than anything else. Unless your opponent predicted your Taunt and switched in something that's faster and could OHKO TTar (always a possibility), you'd end up with 2 DDances as opposed to one, without TTar taking any extra damage (lol Drill Peck). As for whether or not that's worth another moveslot on TTar, well...
I had a DD/Ice Fang/Waterfall/EQ Gyarados set once which was ok although doubtless I found Tuantdos much easier to use and generally more effective. (Speaking of sets, has anyone ever tried Sub/Flail/DD/Attacking Move? It actually worked for me in Adv)
Gyarados is better at the DD+Taunt system BTW. Tyranitar need not worry about Skarmory since he has a CB Stone Edge to work with anyway. I personally use Choice Band on my T-Tar and avoid anything else if possible. Gyarados, however needs DD to keep up with Skarmory, and Taunt prevents WoW and TWave useage, but T-Tar hates status as well furthering the need for Taunt on his Dragon Dancing model.
I'll echo one of the sentiments that others have been saying in favor of Gyarados: typing. I like to look at the weakness side, though.
Gyarados is weak to Electric and Rock. It can stay in on several types of attacks.
Tyranitar is weak to Fighting and Ground... and Steel... and Bug... and Grass... and Water. It may have one more overall resistance than Gyarados, but it's weak to more of the common Attack types you see nowadays; not a fair trade-off IMO.
That's why I favor Gyarados over Tyranitar.
Gyarados is weak to Electric and Rock. It can stay in on several types of attacks.
Tyranitar is weak to Fighting and Ground... and Steel... and Bug... and Grass... and Water. It may have one more overall resistance than Gyarados, but it's weak to more of the common Attack types you see nowadays; not a fair trade-off IMO.
That's why I favor Gyarados over Tyranitar.
Defense tier analysis for 252 Atk / 252 Speed spreads
Tyranitar 119.37 118.52
Gyarados 116.15 118.2
Intimidate is a 4.25 boost to defenses.
Sandstorm is a 4.25 boost to Sp. Defenses.
After boosts:
Tyranitar 119.37 122.77
Gyarados 120.40 118.2
So after Intimidate, Gyarados is only slightly more defensive than T-Tar in physical defenses, while T-Tar is a beast in Sp. Def. (over 4 tiers higher than Gyarados)
Just throwing it out there to those who are like "OMFG! Intimidate makes Gyarados better!". It only makes him slightly more defensive, and the counter to Gyarados won't be intimidated. Remember that.
2nd. I think Gyarados wins due to typing and higher speed. But we're really comparing apples to oranges here.
Tyranitar 119.37 118.52
Gyarados 116.15 118.2
Intimidate is a 4.25 boost to defenses.
Sandstorm is a 4.25 boost to Sp. Defenses.
After boosts:
Tyranitar 119.37 122.77
Gyarados 120.40 118.2
So after Intimidate, Gyarados is only slightly more defensive than T-Tar in physical defenses, while T-Tar is a beast in Sp. Def. (over 4 tiers higher than Gyarados)
Just throwing it out there to those who are like "OMFG! Intimidate makes Gyarados better!". It only makes him slightly more defensive, and the counter to Gyarados won't be intimidated. Remember that.
2nd. I think Gyarados wins due to typing and higher speed. But we're really comparing apples to oranges here.
The thing is though, when people think of the two pokemon defensively, they dont think about their defense stats/defense tiers. They think about how Gyarados's flying type gives him nice resistances. So despite the fact that Gyarados is only slightly higher in defense, and lower in sp.defense, him not being weak to grass and water makes up for it.