Team Annoying - OU Gen 5 Weather Killer

Hi everyone, this would be my second RMT. My first team did pretty well but had many flaws in it. Furthermore, it had a massive ice weakness due to the Pokemon I chose for my team.

To be honest, I never found a team that I've been completely satisfied with. There have been many Pokemon that I really love, and many Pokemon that function well enough on my team but am not completely satisfied with. Here's my team.

Team at a Glance
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Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Body Slam
- Trick

Jirachi was an amazing Gen 4 lead and still just as amazing in Gen 5. If it's a suicide lead such as Gengar, Aerodactyl, etc. simply Iron Head them to death. The scarf ensures my LeadRachi will outspeed everything up to those pesky genies. This Jirachi is also capable of surviving a lot of attacks due to it's HP investment. If a Ttar stays in and doesn't get flinched, then Rachi easily survives a Flamethrower and KOes with Iron Head. I also happen to play on a server (PokeBattle Center) where there is NO team preview, so I can't simply switch my lead around. For a bulkier lead, like Swampert, Natorrei, Foretress, etc. I trick it to permanently cripple it. Against Politoed I U-turn to Ferrothorn and against Ninetales I U-turn to Rotom-W. Sun teams actually give me the most trouble out of all the teams I face.


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Rotom-W @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split

I'm not sure if other people are using this set or not, but this set is amazing. Rotom-W is such a big threat to teams. I love switching in on fire attacks and threatening with a STAB Hydro Pump. Ferrothorn is such a common switch in, so I WoW it and switch to my Ferrothorn. If his Ferrothorn attacks after I WoW it does virtually nothing. I also use a Life Orb to build up damage to make Pain Split more effective. Rotom-W loves switching in to bulky waters, even Toxic. This just builds up damage faster for Pain Split. If a team doesn't have a solid counter for Rotom-W, it's pretty much gg for them.


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Heatran (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 44 SDef / 220 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Torment
- Protect
- Substitute
- Lava Plume


Heatran is amazing in some instances and fail in others. If my opponent doesn't give me a chance to switch in, then I Heatran is useless. If I do get a chance, I have to make sure I don't switch in to a leech seed or thunder wave, which will greatly cripple him. One more dragon attack absorber, but still hard to use. If I know my opponent is going to switch out, I always set up a sub, hoping they don't switch to a set up Pokemon. The idea is behind a sub, you torment them, which prevents them from using the same move twice in a row. Since most Pokemon don't have two attacks that can break Heatran's sub, then every other turn Heatran gets a free Lava Plume while they try to attack Heatran. During the turn Heatran doesn't attack, he uses Protect. This works even better on a Choiced Pokemon since every other turn they are forced to struggle. He works somewhat well with Jirachi, absorbing fire attacks aimed at him while Jirachi can Trick an opponent's Pokemon into a single attack. Also works very well with Ferrothorn, who takes water attacks aimed at Heatran while Heatran takes fire attacks aimed at Ferrothorn.


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Nattorei (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Power Whip

Defense core number 1. For those of you familiar with JelliThorn, this is the reason I'm using him. However, my defensive core has one additional Pokemon. Pretty standard set. I prefer Protect over GyroBall because I love residual damage. All of the common switch-ins gets seeded, I protect to recover and deal more residual damage, and then switch to the appropriate counter. Protect has kept Ferrothorn alive so many times and scouted so many moves, that I am probably never going to take it off. This is my primary dragon attack absorber. This is also a very efficient rain team counter. Fire or fighting attacks aimed at Ferrothorn goes to Jellicent.


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Burungeru (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Surf

Defense core number 2. Absorbs fire and fighting attacks all day. Infernape is a rather scary Pokemon since it could have Grassknot or Thunderpunch. If it doesn't have Grassknot or it's purely physical, then Gliscor takes on ape really well. If a Ferrothorn switches in, I WoW it, taunt it, and recover while it dies. I also switch to my Ferrothorn and keep seeding because either their Ferrothorn will die or they'll switch Pokemon right into my leech seed. Jellicent counters rain teams by switching in to water and ice attacks aimed at Gliscor for either recovery or virtually no damage. If my opponent sets up a single layer of toxic spikes, I quickly switch Jellicent in so it only gets one layer of poison and the rest of my team is immune to toxic spikes. Jellicent actually counters sand teams surprisingly well too. The EV spread is taken from this site with enough speed to outspeed a minimum speed Scizor and WoW it to death. I can also switch this in to Ttars and WoW it before it Pursuits or Crunches, crippling it for the rest of the game. Jellicent also walls other slower walls by taunting it and whittling it down by burning them.


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Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

Defense core number 3. The most amazing Gliscor set ever. Having problems with sandstorm teams? Just use Gliscor. It can sweep an entire team if they aren't prepared for it. So many lower ranked teams consists of mostly physical fighters. People will also make the mistake of assuming a physical ice attack is a guaranteed kill. A Banded Hitmonchan's Ice Punch and a Metagross's Ice Punch can't even OHKO Gliscor. Gliscor just sits and takes physical attacks all day without worry about status. I can switch it in as a Conkeldurr uses Bulk Up and eventually beat it. Once my Gliscor is +6 and they're Conkeldurr is +4/+4, Gliscor just keeps EQing it. Most people make the mistake of going for drain punch first. Even after 4 bulk ups Gliscor just laughs it off while a Payback can't 2HKO factoring in toxic orb recovery. This set evens beats other Gliscors without SD. They Ice Fang thinking it will do a decent amount. Ice and Water, Gliscor's only two weaknesses, are both resisted by Jellicent.

Threats

The two Grass/Fighting Pokemon give this team trouble. The Calm Mind Virizion can KO my entire team unresisted with its Ice/Grass/Fighting coverage. The physical version of Virizion gets walled by Gliscor.

Breloom is the other huge threat to this team. In addition to sporing one of my Pokemon, it then proceeds to leech seed someone. If it has Seed Bomb as it's primary attacking move instead of Focus Punch, then Gliscor is in trouble. It loses its recovery to Leech Seed and gets bombed to death. However, my Ferrothorn (if it's still alive and awake) can wall that set. Now another Breloom set I ran into didn't have Spore. It had SubSeed and both Seed Bomb and Focus Punch. This ended up beating my team. The only solid counters I can think of to these two threats is either Skarm or Zapdoes with a flying attack. The Technician version of Breloom is even worst. It hits everything on my team for at least neutral damage as well as a good chance of a 2HKO on Gliscor while picking off other members with Mach Punch.

Finally, another big threat is Tornadus in the rain. A STAB Hurricane can 2HKO everything on my team. If Jirachi doesn't have its scarf then I don't have anything that can switch into an attack and threaten it back. After it kill something, I bring in Rotom-W. A smart rain player will switch Tornadus out and switch it back in when Rotom-W is gone. Rince and repeat 4 times is all they need. With proper EV distribution, they're guaranteed to be able to take damage from rocks and survive with 1 HP.

Old team members
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Sazandora (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Surf
- Flamethrower

Meh. I'm very open to suggestions for a replacement, Nothing enjoys taking a Draco Meteor coming off of any modest dragon except steel types and Bliss. The EVs are there to maximize bulk while still holding a scarf to outspeed some of the more common threats to my team. One of the most important features about Sazandora is his dark typing, which allows me to have a safe switch in to psychic types. Especially those silly psychics that only one one attack that's psychic type *cough*assistpowersigilyph*cough*. This is a hard Pokemon to switch in to due to it's excellent coverage. I may replace Flamethrower with U-Turn since it still hits psychic types for decent damage (as most of them don't have physical defense). I believe on the server I play on, Latios is an uber, otherwise I would love to have him on my team again. Crippling switch-ins with Choice Specs since I wouldn't need him to carry a scarf with all his speed.
 
My first time rating a team here, but I'll give you my suggestion from reading the RMT.

It seems like Hydreigon is just kind of "there." Personally, this team looks rather semi-stallish, and while certain offensive sets should sometimes be run, I think you need to replace the Hydreigon set you currently use.

If sun teams worry you, I would suggest replacing Hydreigon with Heatran. You still retain a fighting weakness and gain a new ground weakness, but you also gain reliable fire and poison immunity, in addition to x4 grass, steel, and bug resists. I would suggest Tormenttran, as it is my personal favorite set, but I don't think this team has the core and Trick support required. Thus, I would suggest something, perhaps, like this:

Heatran @ Leftovers/Air Balloon
Timid, Flash Fire
252 Speed /252 Special Attack /4 Special Defense
-Substitute/ Taunt
-Flamethrower
-Hidden Power [Grass] /Hidden Power [Ice]
-Earth Power

I haven't tried Air Balloon on Heatran yet, but I've seen it work effectively before. Substitute is great, as it can be fairly simple to scare off certain things (Ferrothorn, for example) or simply block status from slower targets. I use Flamethrower on my sets for the consistency, and since it's STABed and even sometimes Flash Fire boosted, I see no need to take the risk of missing. Earth Power is there for coverage, and the Hidden Power can be tailored to take out which gives you more trouble; Dragons or bulky waters. The 4 Special Defense EVs rob Genesect of its Download boost.

I hope this was of some type of help to you.
 
Actually, TormentTran is perfect. In addition to adding another ice and dragon resist, I get the perfect pokemin for the job. The fire and poison immunity aslo helps against sun teams and those who set up toxic spikes. I've used TormentTran before in Gen 4 with a lot of success. Swamerts are definitely rarer and I believe so is Gyarados with EQ. I personally don't like to use balloons because it's wasted if you switch it in on something to resist. I'd use a Shucca Berry. Why would a Genesect switch in? Anyways, Jitachi provides some trick support and the rest of my team provides residual damage via WoW and Leech Seed. The one thing Hydregion was good for was taking down psychics, which TormentTran could function very well for too. Would you recommend Taunt over Lava Plume since I already have WoW and so I dont need to worry about phazers? It'll also help against other stall teams.

Two main questions:
Taunt or Lava Plume?
What EV spread should I use?
 
Hi,

Cool team. I have some tips and suggestions though. I see you list Breloom as a thraet to this team and there is an easy way to remidy this. Get Gliscor into the game as early as possible to ensure that he can't Spore you, seeing as how he is probably your greatest counter to it. I also you you struggle with Virizion + Sun teams. Once again this is rather easily remidied with the substitution of Choice Specs Latios > Choice Scarf Sazandora. Under the Sun Latios is granted 3 STAB moves to which it can abuse as well as a form of crippling, which should really help this team out! He also resists Fire + Grass, but under Sun it is neutered to being neutral to Fire.

As for some of your sets it seems rather obscure to me as to why you run a Choice Scarf Jirachi with no speed. I would suggest enough speed to at least outspeed the genies, seeing as the flinch rate is still very high without paralysis support, meaning you could easily 2HKO them. I woulod also mess around with a more balanced defensive set for Jirachi.

Give Jellicent Cursed Body > Water Absorb seeing as how Jellicent takes moot damage from and water attack except maybe Scald. With Cursed Body you're able to effectively stop a Pokemon's sweep. I would also say Scald > Surf but its more of a power vs effect situation. Also I wouldn't say Jellicent was handling opposing Rain teams, that is more Rotom-W's job, seeing as Jellicent fears Thunder. For that reason I suggest giving Rotom-W some bulk seeing as he is surprisingly bulky living through the likes of Dragonite Dragon Claw. It also helps you abuse Pain Split.

GL
 
Cool team, but there are some changes I'd like you to consider. First off, Hidden Power Fire should be used over Will-O-Wisp on Rotom - this way you can 2HKO opposing Ferrothorn that switch in on you. Speaking of Rotom, I would try a spread of 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Def. This gives you much-needed longevity, a Life Orb number, and maximum power - you're not really outspeeding anything important with Timid.

Try Taunt over Protect on Gliscor; it will help you set up versus Skarmory and opposing Ferrothorn. Protect is nice to assure you get your Toxic Orb but I don't see it as too necessary as you can just switch in on a fighting attack aimed at your Ferrothorn and activate it that way.

I oppose the Torment Tran > Hydreigon switch mentioned above because them you will be very weak to opposing Sub-SD Garchomp. However, I'd change the nature to Timid so you can outrun +1 Jolly Haxorus. I would also run Dragon Pulse > Dark Pulse because Dark doesn't have very good coverage and with Dragon Pulse you can clean up late game because at the moment, your only dragon attack is Draco Meteor - not exactly efficient for late game cleaning, and it creates setup opportunites for your opponent. Last thing - you're not very weak to Breloom at all, Gliscor walls it for days and can nail it with some super effective Ice Fangs, just make sure you get your Toxic Orb activated as soon as possible once you see Breloom in team preview. At worst you'll be forced to sacrifice something. I hope this helped, good luck!
 
I think you should change Rotom's evs to 128HP / 252Spat / 128Spe and go with a modest nature. You arent outspeeding anything noteworthy with max speed and timid. This set gives you more power and bulk.
 
@Dezza Laa
I just read your sandstorm team. Love it. As you can see, I love stalling as well XD beware though, I think this team is made to take down teams like yours :P

I do need to get Gliscor in earlier. It really depends on the Breloom's set. If it has Leech Seed, it can keep subbing without any HP loss and simply switch out to give another Pokemon recovery.

I'm going to test out TormentTran to remedy my sun problem. I would definitely use Latios over Sazandora any day, but the problem is Latios is an Uber on the server I play on.

Lead Jirachi actually does outspeed the genies, although usually a lead Thunderus will Twave, so I switch immediately to Gliscor who won't get paralyzed. I do however need to put a few more points in to oustpeed Timid Azelf.

I used to use Cursed Body on another team, which worked very well. However, I use water absorb now to force things like Kingra to Outrage and let Ferrothorn take the hit and make them take damage from Iron Barbs. In addition, since they're locked in, I can go for the Power Whip or Leech Seed if I'm weak. With WoW, Jellicent no longer needs Scald. I'm not sure if most people use Jellicent as a physical or special wall, but mine is physical with the added bonus of walling bulky waters. A STAB Vaporeon's Hydro Pump managed to finish off my Ferrothorn. In addition, Ferrothorn is 2HKOed by Waterfall from a Banded Azumarill.

Rotom-W + Ferrothorn definitely beats entire rain teams while Gliscor is there for the common Toxicroak. I definitely need more bulk on Rotom-W. What would you recommend as its EV spread? I need him more specially bulky for Tornadus.


@Blazin Kickin Chicken
I didn't realize there was a Life Orb number XD definitely will consider that, although I love how much damage Pain Split does with no EV investment in HP. I chose WoW over HP Fire since if I get Ferrothorn on the switch in, I simply switch to my Ferrothorn and wait for his to die or switch out. With WoW, a lot of things that switch in gets crippled. Even special sweepers take residual damage.

Protect on Gliscor is going to stay since it serves for building up residual damage, surviving attacks that would otherwise KO, scouting, healing, etc. While Taunt is a good stallbreaker move, all of Gliscor's moves are too important to give up.

Unfortunately there isn't a team preview on the server I play on, so there's no reordering Pokemon around. If I saw a Breloom I would lead Gliscor and Protect on Turn 1 to guarantee I get the Toxic Orb to activate.


@Krum
I'll definitely want to try that Rotom-W spread out.
 
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