Introduction (Yeah fine you can skip it)
Yeah this is my 1K post mainly because I am a gay Fireboter and like 80% of my posts are in this Forum so there we go. Oh and credit for Snorlaxe for indirectly giving me this idea.
Bells and Whistles aside this is a RMT thread (the 1K is just a bonus) so while congratuations are welcome I would prefer it if this thread would not get derailed since again, I would like some assistance with this team.
For all those that don’t know me I really like Toxic Spike teams. I don’t really know why but my best teams always arise in conjunction with Toxic Spikes. Anyway my best team involved Roserade/Latias/Jirachi/Kingdra/Suicune/Scizor and I won many battles with it. However with the banning of Latias the team was void and thus I set out to recreate my previous’s teams successes. This team was created by me deciding to test the effectiness of Toxic Spikes and Leech Seed (cause that’s the kind of things I love to test) so it would be nice if that was in mind when rating this team.
Oh and the title is based of the Dark Side Force Power Dealth Field ( in KOTOR 2) and upgrade of Drain Life. I feel that Leech Seed and Toxic Spikes create a 'death field' for my opponent thanks to toxic damage and Leech Seed.
Team Building Process
I needed a Sub Seeder so I choose Celebi to Sub Seed sice it could abuse Recover and Subtitute to just not die.
after some thought I decided on Tentacruel for my Toxic Spikes user. Tentacruel gave me a water type hat could take hits from Heatran (Celebi's check) and could set up Toxic Spikes. Also it was fairly bulky which would increase the chances of it managing to get up 2 layers
I needed a Rapid Spin blocker since this team was centered around toxic Spikes and thus had to keep them up at all times. Rotom was the perfect choice since it could run a charge beam set which would abuse Toxic Spikes and better let me beat Blissey (which was becomming an issue for the team)
Next up I needed a Lead. While Rotom could fake a Fire Move I currentl had nothing to scare off steel types. I thougt about Magnezone but it did not give me SR and it also came with large ground and Fire Weakneeses. I eventually dcided on Heatran sicne it could scare away steel types, st up SR, act as a lead and compleate my Fire/Water/Grass cmbo.
I now had a strong core for the team and wanted 2 more toxic spike abusers. I though about Jirachi but I had always used Jirachi. Not to meantion that 90% of the time Jirachi= Switch into Heatran so I wanted to avoid this since Rotom and Celebi could not take Fire attacks and Tentacruel and Heatran could not repeated Earthpowers. Also Tentacruel was being used more and more as a pivot into Heatran which weakened it and made it harder for me to set up Toxic Spikes quickly. Thus I wanted a ground immunity and a heatran check that could abuse Toxic Spikes. Therefore Suicune (<3) and Zapdos were brought into the team.
Looking at the team I had a huge Electric weakness. Celebi was my best check and it would hate switching into a Shadow Ball or HP Ice. Charge Beam versions screwed me over as well. I decided to ditch Tentacruel and went for the ever reliable Forretress which could also set up Spikes to hamper my opponent even more.
That was my team for a while however I started to dislike Forretress. I just felt that I personally could just not use him well enough and I also felt that he slowwed the pace of this team down. Also he was also vulnerabel to being set up fodder which pissed my off. heatran was still a problem as I would rely heavily to sponge its attacks with Suicune. Why this was not really an issue it did irritate me. Also the team felt weak. Celebi was not doing anything and rotom was only average. Also Starmie would still be dangerous as Rotom could not switch in. I was on the verge of scrapping the team but speant many hours planning conbinations and such like. It was here when I cam accross Drapion. Loss of spikes was disheartning but the team did not need them anyway and I decided that they just wasted turns. I also decided on a Rest talk Spoiritomb with Max HP/Max SpD which could freely switch in to Starmie (even on a LO Hydro Pump. Have a decent chance to survive a second one, rest back up to full health and I could rest easy (no pun intended) knowing that it had wasted 4 PP of Hydro Pump due to Pressure. It was also an awesome machamp counter. As stated Celebi was useless/not functioning so I tried a Sub Seed Sceptile which actualy worked very well although it was a little bit frail.
So yeah my team had 3 UU pokemon in it and 3 pressure users as well. This was o.k since the team was working well together. However I found myself getting crushed by Taunt Dos and I had nothing to really deal with it. Spiritomb especially was pure set up fodder (especially if it was asleep) and I had very little that could stand in its way. Thus I Put Gengar in over Spiritomb. I got a much shakier Spin Blocker (defense wise) however I got the ability to be a menace to both offensive and stall teams. Gengar also gave me somthing to help break down stall and gave this team a slightly more offensive feel (which is what I wanted since I don't play stall very well). Lastly Gengar also gave this team a bit more speed which I sorely needed and it could act as a semi revenge killerso things that did not have boosts. Although Sceptile was working fine at the time I had already decided (before testing Sceptile) that i was going to playtest every Sub Seeder possiable in the game. Sceptile was last on the list but its position was up for doubt when I remembered that Shaymin set in Twash's (?) RMT. I also saw the set (or a similar one anyway) in Jumpluffs QC Shaymin Skeleton. It was not sub seeding but it was abusing Leech Seed so I decided to give it a try and........fell in love. Sceptile was booted out and Shaymin stayed, giving me the team I have today.
UPDATED TEAM BUILDING SECTION
With this team up for rate Gengars place in the team was but into doubt by serveral raters. Therefore (on their advice) I added a Scarf Rotom. This patched up my DD Dragonite woes and was a more reliable check to Starmie and Gyarados.
Now, onto the Team!
Heatran (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Stealth Rock
- Hidden Power Grass
- Explosion
- Overheat
Yes this is your average Lead Heatran with a bit of a twist. I originally run the norm Shuca Heatran Lead but then I got totally raped by Machamp. I tried Specs Heatran which was awesome but I lost that ability to switch attacks and it was harder for me to set up Stealth Rock. So I used this. Life Orb + Overheat pretty much kill everything. Any Metagross pretty much loses to this since Overheat still has a decent chance to KO through Occa Berry. I can also beat Machamp most of the time. Mild was chosen so that I can fire off my boosted Special Attacks with the option to explode if needed. Thanks to Mild I lose to other Heatran leads but that’s no too much of an issue since Suicune pretty much walls them. Explosion is a last ditch move to take out something that is threatening me. It’s useful every now and again especially vs stuff like Blissey. HP Grass was aded over Earth Power since Earth Poer was not really doing anything and HP Grass lets me hit problematic water types on the switch. Still, Toxic Spikes wears it down and I can always explode on it if I need too although I would prefer not to. Heatran is designed to do huge damage to my opponents lead and then set up SR if I get the opportunity. His huge power means that I can to a lot of damage to my opponent very quickly. Heatran also gives me early momentum in the match by wrecking my opponents lead. Lastly Heatran is instrumental to the team in getting rid of steel types. Jirachi has to run from Heatran letting me abuse Overheat as much as I want. The very fact that Heatran scares away steel types (which this team hates) makes him extremely valuable to the team as a whole.
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Warning, Monster Paragraph ahead!
Drapion (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP/220 Spd/38 SDef
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Toxic Spikes
Heh I bet a few of you may be thinking/saying out loud “WTF” or “What a N00b” or even ‘What HAVE you been smoking”. I assure you I am not drunk, insane or high. Well….. I needed a Toxic Spiker and Drapion is damn near perfect. You see I decided that with Toxic Spikes Leech Seeding is damn near Evil. Drapion gets rather bad press I believe. It was nice stats in all the right places and it gets underestimated often. Remember that Drapion has access to Base 95 speed (thus faster than Roserade and Lucario) and 90 base Attack. It also has a base 70 HP as well as a vey nice 110 base Defence Stat. Since I pretty much created this sets EVs myself (since I could not find an OU Drapion Lead anywhere) I will explain the set. The Speed Evs and nature allow me to outspeed stuff like Jolly Lucario and Timid Roserade. I can also outspeed random stuff like CM Sub Jirachi, Defensive Zapdos and Sub Thunderwave Jirachi. I then put 252 EVs into HP to make him take hits better. Lastly I had 38 Evs left and threw them into SDef so that he could take hits slightly better on the special side of things. The reason I did not just max my speed was because I only really tie with Electivire (not seen) and Gliscor. I really don’t want to speed tie with Gliscor since I lose to Gliscor no matter how much speed I run. The moves are pretty standard. Taunt is for stuff like Roserade, other set up sweepers etc who I can then set up on. Crunch is a nice STAB option to hit Psychics and Ghosts nicely and Earthquake is to hit all these steels around. Toxic Spikes is well….its for the team and just wears stuff down. Now of course I think many of you doubt Drapions ability to be effective in OU. I believe that that just is not so. Drapion can get 2 layers on many pokemon such as Metagross, Swampert, Roserade heck even Heatran (not Specs’ed one though I think). Drapion is just so damn bulky and he can useful as a pseudo stall breaker since he can Taunt effectively.
Drapion also absorbs Toxic Spikes on entry which is always nice since my team does not particularly enjoy them. It will also be my first switch in after Heatran has used Explosion since he can pretty much always get up 2 layers against most things. The fact that there has been a Grass/Fire/Water core running around actually works with Drapion since he can switch in on Grass types and discourage Heatran by throwing around Earthquakes while setting up Toxic Spikes to weaken the bulky waters in this Tier.
Drapion is not useless during the Mid or Late Game either. Lack of recovery sucks but Drapions speed is a huge asset. For example Drapion can handle most CM Jirachi out there and in a Pinch Drapion can take a +2 Adamant LO Lucario’s Extreme Speed and take a chunk out with Earthquake. Drapion does take a nice chunck out of stuff like Rotom and is never OHKO’ed with SR by a Starmie’s LO Hydro Pump thanks to my SDef Evs. Drapion is defiantly not a useless pokemon and he really helps the team as a whole. If you want to remove Drapion good luck since not many other pokemon can set up Toxic Spikes.
Why Drapion?
I thought I really should have this mini heading since some of you may be still sceptical of Drapion. There are 4 Toxic Spike users in OU: Roserade, Forretress, Tentacruel and Smeargle. I tested all of these and they each had issues. With Smeargle I had to use it as a Lead and even then it had trouble getting up layers. Remember I wanted 2 layers to be up often and Smeargle often failed me in that regard. Also I found myself asking why I was not using a Lead Roserade which I prefer over Smeargle.
Roserade was good but it did give me another Fire and Ice weakness which meant that a Sub Tran was very hard to take down. Suicune was my only check and….yea. I found that repeated Ice Beams limited my switchs since Zapdos, Roserade and Shaymin could not risk switching in thus this teams manuverability was diminished. Also I foun myself having to invest in its defences which meant that I could not focus on its speed stat which made it even harder for me to get toxic spikes up.
Tentacruel and Forretress were strong defensive alternatives. I dropped Tentacruel eventually since the Electric weakness was too much and I found it too slow to get Toxic Spikes up. I also believed that it was to similar to Suicune and I hated how Tentacruel was set up fodder for a few things. Forretress was an o.k option which I used for a while. It could set up spikes for me as well but in the end I found it again too slow. I had to perfectly predict moves to bring it in safely and the tempo of the match was low. Understand that I am an offensive player and both Forretress and Tentacruel held back my team for achieving full potential.
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Rotom-w @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Spd/4 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Hydro Pump
If the picture was not enough to go by this is Rotom in its Wash Form. Basically I used to have a Sub Split Gengar which was superb with Toxic Spikes. However the team was open to a few threats such as DD Dragonite which would sweep me cold if I was not careful. Usually I could just play around it but on the advice of many raters (who I respect) I decided to go with their suggestions. I choose Smiths slightly bulkier Ev'ed version since now Rotom can take a hit or two (most notably its does not have a 66% chance to be OHKOed my LO Starmie after SR damage). Anyway Rotom serves as my primary revenge kiler which is always nice. It still checks Lucario (which Gengar did when it was on the team provided it lacked Bullet Punch) and now gives me more solid checks to threats such as Starmie, Gyarados and Dragonite. However this is kinda a double edged sword. Before I added Rotom none of my team were choiced thus making it that much harder for me to things to set up. However now that I have a scarfer Its easier for me to be set up on. Also Rotom is pure pursuit bait so I have to keep it hidden and hopefully scout a T-tar switch in before I can actually use Rotom. Also I lost my main Blissey weakener. Rotom can do nothing to Blissey howver since most of my team can dea lwith it, this is not a huge loss.
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Shaymin @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/180 Spd/76 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Ah yes, my Leech Seeder. Shaymin is fast and hits quite hard which is again, very nice for this team. This set is perfect for this team and it is excellent for wearing my opponent down. The set is pretty simple, Leech Seed then Protect. With Toxic Spikes many pokemon get worn down fast and if needed Shaymin can take a hit or two as well. Seed Flare helps cause switchs and Shaymin acts as my best Swampert check threatening a Seed Flare. Shaymin also dos O.K vs Gyarados since it resists Waterfall and Seed Flare does a bit to it. Hidden Power Fire hits all those steels for super effective damage as it comes in handy vs things Like Forretress and Skarmory which can be major pains to the team by either Spinning or Setting up layers of Spikes which greatly hinder this team.
Shaymin is my first switch in to water types since even Suicune fears a SDef drop Seed Flare. Shaymin can also Leech Seed on the water types if I can predict a switch out thus allowing extra damage to build up on the switch in. The set I run leaves me walled by Heatran. This is annoying however remember that many Heatran don’t often stay in on Shaymin due to Earth Power being very common. If I am feeling very balsy I will stay in on Heatran and Seed it but I don’t do this often since Shaymin is such an important part of the team.
Why Shaymin?
Some of you may be asking why I am using Shaymin over something like Celebi. In creating this team I origionaly had a Sub Seed Celebi on this team but eventually decided that it was more of a dead weight and it was not helping the team as a whole. Roserade was a little too frail and Breloom too slow. I tested Sceptile which I really liked but Shaymin won out due to it hitting very hard and having flexability with Protect and Leech Seed. Natural Cure also gave it points over Sceptile since if I got statused I can switch out and heal it. Also I just had to steal Jumpluffs Shaymin Plush toy there we go
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Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 192 HP/64 Def/252 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
And this is the main reason that Toxic Spikes are essential. Zapdos is perhaps one of the best Toxic Spike abusers in OU and this set is extremely annoying to take down. The aim of the set is simple, get a sub up on something that will switch out and then start the cycle. Substitute and Roost is an excellent way to stall out my opponent. Zapdos’s main selling point however, is pressure. Zapdos is my first Pressure abuser and it does a sterling job since attacks lose their PP when breaking his subs. The moves I chose are fairly standard. Thunderbolt for STAB and Substitute and Roost for the stalling combo. HP Ice is to hit Flygon and Dragonite which can be real pests. Both are immune to Toxic Spikes andthreaten my team greatly. Swampert is handled my the rest of my team pretty well anyway. Zapdos also allows me to deal with most Flying Types that are immune to Toxic Spikes bar steel types which Heatran can take quite well. Zapdos is my main Water check and it synergises well with the team. Lastly Zapdos is a pseudo Lucario check since I outspeed SD variants and can hit them hard with a Thunderbolt. Zapdos is a key member to this team acting as a secondary check to water types (eg Gyarados) while threating to do good amounts of damage to my opponents team with its pseudo Bolt Beam coverage. Zapdos does not always ‘sweep’ but it can often get 2 kills a match. SR does crimp its style however, even without a spinner Zapdos still functions excellently at wearing down my opponents team, in fact Zapdos often cleans up before Gengar!
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Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
The end game Cleaner. In my opinion Suicune is one of the best cleaners with Toxic Spikes up since not much can stand up to her. I knew that I needed a Fire Check and Suicune is mine dealing with most varents of Heatran quite well. Suicune will nearly always be brought out late game so that my opponent does not feel tempted to keep his Shaymin alive for me. In a pinch I can stall out Vaporeon even without Toxic Spikes although I have not needed to do this yet. Surf is my only move but I am not too worried about being walled by other waters. After a few CMs I can deal with most water types and CroCune is very hard to stop late game. I am walled by Tauntdos however which is why Zapdos and Shaymin are very important to the team. With them I can at least weaken Gyarados and hopefully I can take it down. Still, With Stealth Rock I can at least weaken it although Gyarados is difficult to beat with this team. Anyway for those who are not familiar with the set I simply CM up and Rest when necessary until I am at +6. Pressure is really a bitch since I can stall out many attacks while resting. The other pressure abuser help me to also lower the PP of their attacks making it even harder to take down. Between Zapdos and Suicune Grass moves have their PP reduced very quickly.
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Old team members
Conclusion
This team is maybe the best team that I have built. It caters to my style of play and it has a good flexiable playstyle. The thing I most enjoy about this team however, is its pace. Its plays very fast, something that is slightly unusual for a team that relys on stalling out my opponent’s team with Toxic Spikes. This pace it due to half my team having 100 base speed thus quickly allowing me to dictate play and gain quick momentum. Its also funny but even though I don’t have a stall ‘breaker’ I don’t struggle with stall too much. Stall batttles usually revolves around me attempting to eliminate Tentacruel (usually through double switching and prediction) and then re-laying my toxic spikes back down to hamper stall. Gengar can beat Blissey 1v1 and Shaymin can keep my team healing with Leech Seed. Zapdos also does its bit to wear down my opponent. If I realise I am facing stall Drapion is always kept as far back as possible since I can then soak up T-spikes when Cruel is gone and lay my own. I am less worried about Forretress since if I can get Toxic spikes up Heatran gets a free switch and can wreck things with Overheat and Explosion.
Also feel free to Rate/Hate/Steal. I already gave this team to a few friends who can ladder more often than I can. So I guess I don't mind if you guys use it for yourselves.
Thanks to.....
Also thanks to www.arkeis.com/pokemonfactory.htm and www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites.html for the sprites.
Yeah this is my 1K post mainly because I am a gay Fireboter and like 80% of my posts are in this Forum so there we go. Oh and credit for Snorlaxe for indirectly giving me this idea.
Bells and Whistles aside this is a RMT thread (the 1K is just a bonus) so while congratuations are welcome I would prefer it if this thread would not get derailed since again, I would like some assistance with this team.
For all those that don’t know me I really like Toxic Spike teams. I don’t really know why but my best teams always arise in conjunction with Toxic Spikes. Anyway my best team involved Roserade/Latias/Jirachi/Kingdra/Suicune/Scizor and I won many battles with it. However with the banning of Latias the team was void and thus I set out to recreate my previous’s teams successes. This team was created by me deciding to test the effectiness of Toxic Spikes and Leech Seed (cause that’s the kind of things I love to test) so it would be nice if that was in mind when rating this team.
Oh and the title is based of the Dark Side Force Power Dealth Field ( in KOTOR 2) and upgrade of Drain Life. I feel that Leech Seed and Toxic Spikes create a 'death field' for my opponent thanks to toxic damage and Leech Seed.
Team Building Process
I needed a Sub Seeder so I choose Celebi to Sub Seed sice it could abuse Recover and Subtitute to just not die.
after some thought I decided on Tentacruel for my Toxic Spikes user. Tentacruel gave me a water type hat could take hits from Heatran (Celebi's check) and could set up Toxic Spikes. Also it was fairly bulky which would increase the chances of it managing to get up 2 layers
I needed a Rapid Spin blocker since this team was centered around toxic Spikes and thus had to keep them up at all times. Rotom was the perfect choice since it could run a charge beam set which would abuse Toxic Spikes and better let me beat Blissey (which was becomming an issue for the team)
Next up I needed a Lead. While Rotom could fake a Fire Move I currentl had nothing to scare off steel types. I thougt about Magnezone but it did not give me SR and it also came with large ground and Fire Weakneeses. I eventually dcided on Heatran sicne it could scare away steel types, st up SR, act as a lead and compleate my Fire/Water/Grass cmbo.
I now had a strong core for the team and wanted 2 more toxic spike abusers. I though about Jirachi but I had always used Jirachi. Not to meantion that 90% of the time Jirachi= Switch into Heatran so I wanted to avoid this since Rotom and Celebi could not take Fire attacks and Tentacruel and Heatran could not repeated Earthpowers. Also Tentacruel was being used more and more as a pivot into Heatran which weakened it and made it harder for me to set up Toxic Spikes quickly. Thus I wanted a ground immunity and a heatran check that could abuse Toxic Spikes. Therefore Suicune (<3) and Zapdos were brought into the team.
Looking at the team I had a huge Electric weakness. Celebi was my best check and it would hate switching into a Shadow Ball or HP Ice. Charge Beam versions screwed me over as well. I decided to ditch Tentacruel and went for the ever reliable Forretress which could also set up Spikes to hamper my opponent even more.
That was my team for a while however I started to dislike Forretress. I just felt that I personally could just not use him well enough and I also felt that he slowwed the pace of this team down. Also he was also vulnerabel to being set up fodder which pissed my off. heatran was still a problem as I would rely heavily to sponge its attacks with Suicune. Why this was not really an issue it did irritate me. Also the team felt weak. Celebi was not doing anything and rotom was only average. Also Starmie would still be dangerous as Rotom could not switch in. I was on the verge of scrapping the team but speant many hours planning conbinations and such like. It was here when I cam accross Drapion. Loss of spikes was disheartning but the team did not need them anyway and I decided that they just wasted turns. I also decided on a Rest talk Spoiritomb with Max HP/Max SpD which could freely switch in to Starmie (even on a LO Hydro Pump. Have a decent chance to survive a second one, rest back up to full health and I could rest easy (no pun intended) knowing that it had wasted 4 PP of Hydro Pump due to Pressure. It was also an awesome machamp counter. As stated Celebi was useless/not functioning so I tried a Sub Seed Sceptile which actualy worked very well although it was a little bit frail.
So yeah my team had 3 UU pokemon in it and 3 pressure users as well. This was o.k since the team was working well together. However I found myself getting crushed by Taunt Dos and I had nothing to really deal with it. Spiritomb especially was pure set up fodder (especially if it was asleep) and I had very little that could stand in its way. Thus I Put Gengar in over Spiritomb. I got a much shakier Spin Blocker (defense wise) however I got the ability to be a menace to both offensive and stall teams. Gengar also gave me somthing to help break down stall and gave this team a slightly more offensive feel (which is what I wanted since I don't play stall very well). Lastly Gengar also gave this team a bit more speed which I sorely needed and it could act as a semi revenge killerso things that did not have boosts. Although Sceptile was working fine at the time I had already decided (before testing Sceptile) that i was going to playtest every Sub Seeder possiable in the game. Sceptile was last on the list but its position was up for doubt when I remembered that Shaymin set in Twash's (?) RMT. I also saw the set (or a similar one anyway) in Jumpluffs QC Shaymin Skeleton. It was not sub seeding but it was abusing Leech Seed so I decided to give it a try and........fell in love. Sceptile was booted out and Shaymin stayed, giving me the team I have today.
UPDATED TEAM BUILDING SECTION
With this team up for rate Gengars place in the team was but into doubt by serveral raters. Therefore (on their advice) I added a Scarf Rotom. This patched up my DD Dragonite woes and was a more reliable check to Starmie and Gyarados.
Now, onto the Team!
Heatran (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Stealth Rock
- Hidden Power Grass
- Explosion
- Overheat
Yes this is your average Lead Heatran with a bit of a twist. I originally run the norm Shuca Heatran Lead but then I got totally raped by Machamp. I tried Specs Heatran which was awesome but I lost that ability to switch attacks and it was harder for me to set up Stealth Rock. So I used this. Life Orb + Overheat pretty much kill everything. Any Metagross pretty much loses to this since Overheat still has a decent chance to KO through Occa Berry. I can also beat Machamp most of the time. Mild was chosen so that I can fire off my boosted Special Attacks with the option to explode if needed. Thanks to Mild I lose to other Heatran leads but that’s no too much of an issue since Suicune pretty much walls them. Explosion is a last ditch move to take out something that is threatening me. It’s useful every now and again especially vs stuff like Blissey. HP Grass was aded over Earth Power since Earth Poer was not really doing anything and HP Grass lets me hit problematic water types on the switch. Still, Toxic Spikes wears it down and I can always explode on it if I need too although I would prefer not to. Heatran is designed to do huge damage to my opponents lead and then set up SR if I get the opportunity. His huge power means that I can to a lot of damage to my opponent very quickly. Heatran also gives me early momentum in the match by wrecking my opponents lead. Lastly Heatran is instrumental to the team in getting rid of steel types. Jirachi has to run from Heatran letting me abuse Overheat as much as I want. The very fact that Heatran scares away steel types (which this team hates) makes him extremely valuable to the team as a whole.
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Warning, Monster Paragraph ahead!
Drapion (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP/220 Spd/38 SDef
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Toxic Spikes
Heh I bet a few of you may be thinking/saying out loud “WTF” or “What a N00b” or even ‘What HAVE you been smoking”. I assure you I am not drunk, insane or high. Well….. I needed a Toxic Spiker and Drapion is damn near perfect. You see I decided that with Toxic Spikes Leech Seeding is damn near Evil. Drapion gets rather bad press I believe. It was nice stats in all the right places and it gets underestimated often. Remember that Drapion has access to Base 95 speed (thus faster than Roserade and Lucario) and 90 base Attack. It also has a base 70 HP as well as a vey nice 110 base Defence Stat. Since I pretty much created this sets EVs myself (since I could not find an OU Drapion Lead anywhere) I will explain the set. The Speed Evs and nature allow me to outspeed stuff like Jolly Lucario and Timid Roserade. I can also outspeed random stuff like CM Sub Jirachi, Defensive Zapdos and Sub Thunderwave Jirachi. I then put 252 EVs into HP to make him take hits better. Lastly I had 38 Evs left and threw them into SDef so that he could take hits slightly better on the special side of things. The reason I did not just max my speed was because I only really tie with Electivire (not seen) and Gliscor. I really don’t want to speed tie with Gliscor since I lose to Gliscor no matter how much speed I run. The moves are pretty standard. Taunt is for stuff like Roserade, other set up sweepers etc who I can then set up on. Crunch is a nice STAB option to hit Psychics and Ghosts nicely and Earthquake is to hit all these steels around. Toxic Spikes is well….its for the team and just wears stuff down. Now of course I think many of you doubt Drapions ability to be effective in OU. I believe that that just is not so. Drapion can get 2 layers on many pokemon such as Metagross, Swampert, Roserade heck even Heatran (not Specs’ed one though I think). Drapion is just so damn bulky and he can useful as a pseudo stall breaker since he can Taunt effectively.
Drapion also absorbs Toxic Spikes on entry which is always nice since my team does not particularly enjoy them. It will also be my first switch in after Heatran has used Explosion since he can pretty much always get up 2 layers against most things. The fact that there has been a Grass/Fire/Water core running around actually works with Drapion since he can switch in on Grass types and discourage Heatran by throwing around Earthquakes while setting up Toxic Spikes to weaken the bulky waters in this Tier.
Drapion is not useless during the Mid or Late Game either. Lack of recovery sucks but Drapions speed is a huge asset. For example Drapion can handle most CM Jirachi out there and in a Pinch Drapion can take a +2 Adamant LO Lucario’s Extreme Speed and take a chunk out with Earthquake. Drapion does take a nice chunck out of stuff like Rotom and is never OHKO’ed with SR by a Starmie’s LO Hydro Pump thanks to my SDef Evs. Drapion is defiantly not a useless pokemon and he really helps the team as a whole. If you want to remove Drapion good luck since not many other pokemon can set up Toxic Spikes.
Why Drapion?
I thought I really should have this mini heading since some of you may be still sceptical of Drapion. There are 4 Toxic Spike users in OU: Roserade, Forretress, Tentacruel and Smeargle. I tested all of these and they each had issues. With Smeargle I had to use it as a Lead and even then it had trouble getting up layers. Remember I wanted 2 layers to be up often and Smeargle often failed me in that regard. Also I found myself asking why I was not using a Lead Roserade which I prefer over Smeargle.
Roserade was good but it did give me another Fire and Ice weakness which meant that a Sub Tran was very hard to take down. Suicune was my only check and….yea. I found that repeated Ice Beams limited my switchs since Zapdos, Roserade and Shaymin could not risk switching in thus this teams manuverability was diminished. Also I foun myself having to invest in its defences which meant that I could not focus on its speed stat which made it even harder for me to get toxic spikes up.
Tentacruel and Forretress were strong defensive alternatives. I dropped Tentacruel eventually since the Electric weakness was too much and I found it too slow to get Toxic Spikes up. I also believed that it was to similar to Suicune and I hated how Tentacruel was set up fodder for a few things. Forretress was an o.k option which I used for a while. It could set up spikes for me as well but in the end I found it again too slow. I had to perfectly predict moves to bring it in safely and the tempo of the match was low. Understand that I am an offensive player and both Forretress and Tentacruel held back my team for achieving full potential.
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Rotom-w @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Spd/4 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Hydro Pump
If the picture was not enough to go by this is Rotom in its Wash Form. Basically I used to have a Sub Split Gengar which was superb with Toxic Spikes. However the team was open to a few threats such as DD Dragonite which would sweep me cold if I was not careful. Usually I could just play around it but on the advice of many raters (who I respect) I decided to go with their suggestions. I choose Smiths slightly bulkier Ev'ed version since now Rotom can take a hit or two (most notably its does not have a 66% chance to be OHKOed my LO Starmie after SR damage). Anyway Rotom serves as my primary revenge kiler which is always nice. It still checks Lucario (which Gengar did when it was on the team provided it lacked Bullet Punch) and now gives me more solid checks to threats such as Starmie, Gyarados and Dragonite. However this is kinda a double edged sword. Before I added Rotom none of my team were choiced thus making it that much harder for me to things to set up. However now that I have a scarfer Its easier for me to be set up on. Also Rotom is pure pursuit bait so I have to keep it hidden and hopefully scout a T-tar switch in before I can actually use Rotom. Also I lost my main Blissey weakener. Rotom can do nothing to Blissey howver since most of my team can dea lwith it, this is not a huge loss.
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Shaymin @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/180 Spd/76 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Ah yes, my Leech Seeder. Shaymin is fast and hits quite hard which is again, very nice for this team. This set is perfect for this team and it is excellent for wearing my opponent down. The set is pretty simple, Leech Seed then Protect. With Toxic Spikes many pokemon get worn down fast and if needed Shaymin can take a hit or two as well. Seed Flare helps cause switchs and Shaymin acts as my best Swampert check threatening a Seed Flare. Shaymin also dos O.K vs Gyarados since it resists Waterfall and Seed Flare does a bit to it. Hidden Power Fire hits all those steels for super effective damage as it comes in handy vs things Like Forretress and Skarmory which can be major pains to the team by either Spinning or Setting up layers of Spikes which greatly hinder this team.
Shaymin is my first switch in to water types since even Suicune fears a SDef drop Seed Flare. Shaymin can also Leech Seed on the water types if I can predict a switch out thus allowing extra damage to build up on the switch in. The set I run leaves me walled by Heatran. This is annoying however remember that many Heatran don’t often stay in on Shaymin due to Earth Power being very common. If I am feeling very balsy I will stay in on Heatran and Seed it but I don’t do this often since Shaymin is such an important part of the team.
Why Shaymin?
Some of you may be asking why I am using Shaymin over something like Celebi. In creating this team I origionaly had a Sub Seed Celebi on this team but eventually decided that it was more of a dead weight and it was not helping the team as a whole. Roserade was a little too frail and Breloom too slow. I tested Sceptile which I really liked but Shaymin won out due to it hitting very hard and having flexability with Protect and Leech Seed. Natural Cure also gave it points over Sceptile since if I got statused I can switch out and heal it. Also I just had to steal Jumpluffs Shaymin Plush toy there we go
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Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 192 HP/64 Def/252 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
And this is the main reason that Toxic Spikes are essential. Zapdos is perhaps one of the best Toxic Spike abusers in OU and this set is extremely annoying to take down. The aim of the set is simple, get a sub up on something that will switch out and then start the cycle. Substitute and Roost is an excellent way to stall out my opponent. Zapdos’s main selling point however, is pressure. Zapdos is my first Pressure abuser and it does a sterling job since attacks lose their PP when breaking his subs. The moves I chose are fairly standard. Thunderbolt for STAB and Substitute and Roost for the stalling combo. HP Ice is to hit Flygon and Dragonite which can be real pests. Both are immune to Toxic Spikes andthreaten my team greatly. Swampert is handled my the rest of my team pretty well anyway. Zapdos also allows me to deal with most Flying Types that are immune to Toxic Spikes bar steel types which Heatran can take quite well. Zapdos is my main Water check and it synergises well with the team. Lastly Zapdos is a pseudo Lucario check since I outspeed SD variants and can hit them hard with a Thunderbolt. Zapdos is a key member to this team acting as a secondary check to water types (eg Gyarados) while threating to do good amounts of damage to my opponents team with its pseudo Bolt Beam coverage. Zapdos does not always ‘sweep’ but it can often get 2 kills a match. SR does crimp its style however, even without a spinner Zapdos still functions excellently at wearing down my opponents team, in fact Zapdos often cleans up before Gengar!
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Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
The end game Cleaner. In my opinion Suicune is one of the best cleaners with Toxic Spikes up since not much can stand up to her. I knew that I needed a Fire Check and Suicune is mine dealing with most varents of Heatran quite well. Suicune will nearly always be brought out late game so that my opponent does not feel tempted to keep his Shaymin alive for me. In a pinch I can stall out Vaporeon even without Toxic Spikes although I have not needed to do this yet. Surf is my only move but I am not too worried about being walled by other waters. After a few CMs I can deal with most water types and CroCune is very hard to stop late game. I am walled by Tauntdos however which is why Zapdos and Shaymin are very important to the team. With them I can at least weaken Gyarados and hopefully I can take it down. Still, With Stealth Rock I can at least weaken it although Gyarados is difficult to beat with this team. Anyway for those who are not familiar with the set I simply CM up and Rest when necessary until I am at +6. Pressure is really a bitch since I can stall out many attacks while resting. The other pressure abuser help me to also lower the PP of their attacks making it even harder to take down. Between Zapdos and Suicune Grass moves have their PP reduced very quickly.
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Old team members
REPLACED BY ROTOM (WASH FORM)
Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/152 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
Well what can I say here? Gengar is an excellent spin blocker for this team and has excellent speed which helps in giving my team a speedy edge. This set is pretty standard but if people don’t know how it works then I will explain. Bring Gengar in on an immunity or resist and set up a Sub. Then wreck havoc with Shadow Ball and Focus Blast. Pain Split is for recovery and this Gengar can actually beat Blissey.
Gengar acts as my pseudo spin blocker which is nice to have. As stated above Gengar is very fast can thus can often deal the finishing blow to many pokemon. Often I will use Substitute just out of habit to scout my opponents move and often it pays off. One of the few negatives of using this Gengar is Focus Blast which misses often enough for me to consider using Wide Lens. I should note however, that Gegnar is not meant to sweep. If it does then great however its main purpose is to weaken my opponents team both with its powerful attacks, and to abuse Sub + Pain split to give Toxic Spikes greater effect. Gengar is also the perfect check for any SD Lucario that lacks Bullet Punch and it threatens many grass types that like to switch in on Shaymin.
Why Gengar?
Gengar took a while to appear on this team. I origionally had a Charge Beam Rotom and then I tested a Rest Talk Spiritomb (3 pressure abusers yay!). Both worked O.K but Gengar really gives this team a more threatening edge and I really love Gegnars speed. Both Rotom and Gengar let me beat Blissey but in the end Gengar was picked for its ability to give both offensive and stall based teams trouble.
Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/152 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
Well what can I say here? Gengar is an excellent spin blocker for this team and has excellent speed which helps in giving my team a speedy edge. This set is pretty standard but if people don’t know how it works then I will explain. Bring Gengar in on an immunity or resist and set up a Sub. Then wreck havoc with Shadow Ball and Focus Blast. Pain Split is for recovery and this Gengar can actually beat Blissey.
Gengar acts as my pseudo spin blocker which is nice to have. As stated above Gengar is very fast can thus can often deal the finishing blow to many pokemon. Often I will use Substitute just out of habit to scout my opponents move and often it pays off. One of the few negatives of using this Gengar is Focus Blast which misses often enough for me to consider using Wide Lens. I should note however, that Gegnar is not meant to sweep. If it does then great however its main purpose is to weaken my opponents team both with its powerful attacks, and to abuse Sub + Pain split to give Toxic Spikes greater effect. Gengar is also the perfect check for any SD Lucario that lacks Bullet Punch and it threatens many grass types that like to switch in on Shaymin.
Why Gengar?
Gengar took a while to appear on this team. I origionally had a Charge Beam Rotom and then I tested a Rest Talk Spiritomb (3 pressure abusers yay!). Both worked O.K but Gengar really gives this team a more threatening edge and I really love Gegnars speed. Both Rotom and Gengar let me beat Blissey but in the end Gengar was picked for its ability to give both offensive and stall based teams trouble.
Conclusion
This team is maybe the best team that I have built. It caters to my style of play and it has a good flexiable playstyle. The thing I most enjoy about this team however, is its pace. Its plays very fast, something that is slightly unusual for a team that relys on stalling out my opponent’s team with Toxic Spikes. This pace it due to half my team having 100 base speed thus quickly allowing me to dictate play and gain quick momentum. Its also funny but even though I don’t have a stall ‘breaker’ I don’t struggle with stall too much. Stall batttles usually revolves around me attempting to eliminate Tentacruel (usually through double switching and prediction) and then re-laying my toxic spikes back down to hamper stall. Gengar can beat Blissey 1v1 and Shaymin can keep my team healing with Leech Seed. Zapdos also does its bit to wear down my opponent. If I realise I am facing stall Drapion is always kept as far back as possible since I can then soak up T-spikes when Cruel is gone and lay my own. I am less worried about Forretress since if I can get Toxic spikes up Heatran gets a free switch and can wreck things with Overheat and Explosion.
Also feel free to Rate/Hate/Steal. I already gave this team to a few friends who can ladder more often than I can. So I guess I don't mind if you guys use it for yourselves.
Thanks to.....
Jimbo: Yeah your pretty cool and I am always reminded of you whenever I watch those Beached Az youtube vids.
RBG: Everyone seems to forget you so I almost decided to forget you accidently on purpose. But then I thought that would be mean. Seriously though you are a nice guy even though I don’t see you often. I should chat more on IRC.
Genny/Gen Empoleon: man your Uber warstories are epic. Full props for that since it was you (and train man) who got me into ubers.
Blue Kirby: anyone who HAD Schroeder as their avatar/sig is awesome.
Sadly you don’t have it anymore… Still you did an awesome job captaining Oceania though huge props for that.
Bloo: Yeah you’re a nice mod. I am not sure who is faster though between you and Haunter. Has anyone suggested a race?
Haunter: yeah I see you more often when I rate teams. Still even though you mod like Stark and the RMT forum you still have the time to answer any questions I have.
Jumpluff: Obligatory <3 post. You are pretty cool in that you also answered a lot of questions I had when I was new to this place.
Jumpman16: Am I still confined to my safari ball?
Fireburn/Jibaku/Bojangles: You guys are so awesome in the Ubers Forum. Really, I cannot thank you guys enough for the work you do their. It’s sad that with such great mods looking after the subforum very few people go on the uber ladder, hopefully this picks up in Gen 5! Jib also gets a special mention for created the biggest threat list known to man (which I now regret copying and using for my Ubers RMT)
Theorymon: Gets a sub section all to himself for all his gimmicky sets. It was your RMT that inspired on of the best Uber teams I created and it was probably you that ignited my interest in testing new sets (both in Ubers and OU) Thanks for that!
Panamaxis: Best rapper. Even though he is an Aussie I can forgive him solely for those rapping skills
Shrang: I gotta thank you for doing a lot of work for the ubers sub forum as well. Also you are really helpful when rating teams and answering any questions I had about Ubers. Belated Grats on the badge
Firecape01: Again thanks for helping me get into Ubers and stuff. Also you (like Shrang) are always somebody I feel comfortable asking if I need help with something about Ubers
Nesan: Why don’t you post anymore. I miss your green text rates… (o.k that sounds gay even to me…)
Delko: I should be an expert rating Hail teams by now. Anyway I use Toxic Spikes and you use Hail teams, I really think we should meet on the ladder more often
Cypher Admin Lovrina: You and your Milotic Fetish. Ah well it gave me something to do when I was bored…
Lucalibur: man we used to have those great yarns. You should talk to me more
Mountain Dewgong: Again another NZ’er who posts in Firebot much better than I can. Actually it’s rather degrading…
Snorlaxe: Haha ever since I posted on your discussion about how Team rating thread is getting stale……. Rating got stale for me after that . Ah well I miss seeing your thoughtful posts in the RMT forum. (and it was you posting a 1K in the RMT forum that gave me the idea to do the same)
DougJustDoug: I gotta have you in here because you helped so much with this site. Gotta love your Trou posts
Aeolus: man you are intimidating… I think it’s your avatar. Whatever though thanks for actually like admining/steering this place etc. its been great.
Hipmonlee: NZ Super Mod!!!! Nothing else really needs to be said
Philip7086: I mention you mainly because I love those new sets you great, really inspire me to get off my arse and try new things. You are a damn good rater as well.
Fatecrashers: yeah man your pretty awesome. In fact we live in the same city and go to the same Uni which makes us even more awesome. Keep playing around with those REMOTE OPERATED CAMERAS and you will be fine.
Train Man: I see you a bit on the Ubers Ladder. We have some close battles and it’s nice that I know that there is somebody who ladders often that can give me nerves.
To other raters I respect including but not limited to Jc104, Smith, Faladran and others already mentioned such as nesan etc. You guys are awesome and it makes it hard to rate after you guys have posted.
Oh and Reyscarface for using a toxic Spike team (and a Sub Roost Zapdos in that Mizuno Warstory that first got me interested in Toxic Spikes.
Since this is MY 1K I get to have the last word. Basically if I have one regret its that university has prevented from contibuting to smogon as much as I have wanted to. Rating I feel has been the best way I have been able to contribute. However in a month or 2 I have unrestricted internet access and thus can hang out on IRC, Shoddy etc andhelp morem often. Regardless I am staying for Gen 5 and I just wanted to thank everyone for making my time here enjoyable, you have all been awesome.
Also If I missed anyone out feel free to PM me and I will add you in. Don't worry its not your fault but mine!
RBG: Everyone seems to forget you so I almost decided to forget you accidently on purpose. But then I thought that would be mean. Seriously though you are a nice guy even though I don’t see you often. I should chat more on IRC.
Genny/Gen Empoleon: man your Uber warstories are epic. Full props for that since it was you (and train man) who got me into ubers.
Blue Kirby: anyone who HAD Schroeder as their avatar/sig is awesome.
Sadly you don’t have it anymore… Still you did an awesome job captaining Oceania though huge props for that.
Bloo: Yeah you’re a nice mod. I am not sure who is faster though between you and Haunter. Has anyone suggested a race?
Haunter: yeah I see you more often when I rate teams. Still even though you mod like Stark and the RMT forum you still have the time to answer any questions I have.
Jumpluff: Obligatory <3 post. You are pretty cool in that you also answered a lot of questions I had when I was new to this place.
Jumpman16: Am I still confined to my safari ball?
Fireburn/Jibaku/Bojangles: You guys are so awesome in the Ubers Forum. Really, I cannot thank you guys enough for the work you do their. It’s sad that with such great mods looking after the subforum very few people go on the uber ladder, hopefully this picks up in Gen 5! Jib also gets a special mention for created the biggest threat list known to man (which I now regret copying and using for my Ubers RMT)
Theorymon: Gets a sub section all to himself for all his gimmicky sets. It was your RMT that inspired on of the best Uber teams I created and it was probably you that ignited my interest in testing new sets (both in Ubers and OU) Thanks for that!
Panamaxis: Best rapper. Even though he is an Aussie I can forgive him solely for those rapping skills
Shrang: I gotta thank you for doing a lot of work for the ubers sub forum as well. Also you are really helpful when rating teams and answering any questions I had about Ubers. Belated Grats on the badge
Firecape01: Again thanks for helping me get into Ubers and stuff. Also you (like Shrang) are always somebody I feel comfortable asking if I need help with something about Ubers
Nesan: Why don’t you post anymore. I miss your green text rates… (o.k that sounds gay even to me…)
Delko: I should be an expert rating Hail teams by now. Anyway I use Toxic Spikes and you use Hail teams, I really think we should meet on the ladder more often
Cypher Admin Lovrina: You and your Milotic Fetish. Ah well it gave me something to do when I was bored…
Lucalibur: man we used to have those great yarns. You should talk to me more
Mountain Dewgong: Again another NZ’er who posts in Firebot much better than I can. Actually it’s rather degrading…
Snorlaxe: Haha ever since I posted on your discussion about how Team rating thread is getting stale……. Rating got stale for me after that . Ah well I miss seeing your thoughtful posts in the RMT forum. (and it was you posting a 1K in the RMT forum that gave me the idea to do the same)
DougJustDoug: I gotta have you in here because you helped so much with this site. Gotta love your Trou posts
Aeolus: man you are intimidating… I think it’s your avatar. Whatever though thanks for actually like admining/steering this place etc. its been great.
Hipmonlee: NZ Super Mod!!!! Nothing else really needs to be said
Philip7086: I mention you mainly because I love those new sets you great, really inspire me to get off my arse and try new things. You are a damn good rater as well.
Fatecrashers: yeah man your pretty awesome. In fact we live in the same city and go to the same Uni which makes us even more awesome. Keep playing around with those REMOTE OPERATED CAMERAS and you will be fine.
Train Man: I see you a bit on the Ubers Ladder. We have some close battles and it’s nice that I know that there is somebody who ladders often that can give me nerves.
To other raters I respect including but not limited to Jc104, Smith, Faladran and others already mentioned such as nesan etc. You guys are awesome and it makes it hard to rate after you guys have posted.
Oh and Reyscarface for using a toxic Spike team (and a Sub Roost Zapdos in that Mizuno Warstory that first got me interested in Toxic Spikes.
Since this is MY 1K I get to have the last word. Basically if I have one regret its that university has prevented from contibuting to smogon as much as I have wanted to. Rating I feel has been the best way I have been able to contribute. However in a month or 2 I have unrestricted internet access and thus can hang out on IRC, Shoddy etc andhelp morem often. Regardless I am staying for Gen 5 and I just wanted to thank everyone for making my time here enjoyable, you have all been awesome.
Also If I missed anyone out feel free to PM me and I will add you in. Don't worry its not your fault but mine!
Also thanks to www.arkeis.com/pokemonfactory.htm and www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites.html for the sprites.
