Team Econ (OU)

[weaselForce1]

At a glance:

Hiya, Smogon! Long-time lurker, sixth-time poster with a team that I conceived, built, and fine-tuned in my Macroeconomics class (hence the name, and the nicknames; they're all people I've met in my studies in Economics). I really wanted to try Sub/Calm Mind Jirachi, so I built a team around him during a particularly drawn-out, redundant example of something I learned last year in one economics class. The team-building process was something like:

To start, because I always wanted to try it. I wanted another late-game sweeper to compliment it, so in came Gyarados.

So, with my two end-game sweepers in place, I wanted something that could soften both of their counters. Mixmence immediately sprung to mind.

Eww...these three really don't like seeing DD Tyranitar, certain Celebi, some fast and powerful but frail Pokemon like Gengar, and especially Latias. Scizor rounds out some of those weaknesses.

At this point, I started looking at the type balance. I had two fire weaknesses and two ground immunities, as well as a pretty significant physical bias, so Heatran, specifically Scarftran to help out with certain threats that I now forget, seemed to fit perfectly. Swampert fit in well type-wise, and it's a consistent lead I've used before, so I threw him in as my lead.

So I played with that for a while on Shoddy, and I liked it, but eventually I got tired of being continuously swept by Gyarados, so I switched out Scarftran for Scarf Latias to counter it.

But that gave me type problems, as I just switched out a 4x ice resist for a 2x ice weak, so perhaps I should change my lead to....

And there's the team as it is now.

So, finally, after a lot of talking and a huge pile of pictures, here's the team!

Empoleon@Focus Sash: Prof. Yohe
Modest; 156 HP / 252 SpA / 100 Spe
-Hydro Pump
-Aqua Jet
-Grass Knot
-Stealth Rock

Standard lead Empoleon. I was really skeptical about this at first, but it worked wonders for me, and I love it to pieces. It's incredibly consistent; if it doesn't get Stealth Rock up early, it's usually because it was busy securing a kill (or two!). Beats a huge range of leads, including Swampert and Heatran, which can be a bit of a pain to this team later on. Infernape, which it can't handle, get sent to Latias, and it can use Aqua Jet to break the sash that most sleep leads carry to make killing them much easier for whoever (Salamence, usually). Max Special Attack for power; 100 speed EVs outspeeds most Metagross, Tyranitar, and Machamp, which is a godsend; and the rest go in HP for bulk.

He's named for my current Macroeconomics professor for one reason, and one reason only: Popped Collar. Seriously, Prof. Yohe has a polo shirt with a popped collar on under a sweater every single day.

Latias@Choice Scarf: Gabby
Modest; 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Sp
-Draco Meteor
-Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Trick

Gabby is the suede elbows for this team's tweed jacket; she holds it together, protects it from some scary things, and in general makes it that much more comfortable and fun to use. She checks/counters a multitude of things that would cause my team troubles, including Gyarados (the original bane of this team), Gengar, and bulkier DD Salamences (which seemed to always run juuuust enough bulk to survive a Scizor bullet punch and kill back with fire blast, then rampage the rest of the team). She's also pretty much my only way to kill scarfed Rotom-A, which is a problem because she's weak to ghost, so she can't switch in without a significant amount of risk. The spread is self-explanatory. Draco Meteor dents things, Surf gives great neutral coverage and dispatches Heatran, Trick cripples walls, and Thunderbolt is there over other coverage moves to strike down Gyarados, even after a DD.

She saves my ass all the time, so she's named for a TA for Econ 110 who saved my ass with an econ paper that I had no idea how to outline.

Scizor@Choice Band: Quinn
Adamant; 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
-Bullet Punch
-U-Turn
-Superpower
-Pursuit

Really, what team doesn't like having a Choice Band Scizor? This is general is just a great scout and revenge-killer. It rounds out a good number of weaknesses, most importantly to Tyranitar, Latias, Gengar, Celebi, and non-lead Azelf. I don't really know what else to say about it, but really, it's so commonly used, what hasn't been said about it?

Mr. Quinn taught the honors economics class that I took in high school. He's a super teacher, and he turned me on to the pursuit of economics. I'm going to go punch myself in the face now.

Salamence@Life Orb: Prof. McCann
Hasty; 68 Atk / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast

Oh, how wonderful MixMence is. Draco Meteor and Outrage put huge dents in a lot of things, and Earthquake and Fire Blast hit things that the huge Dragon STABs don't. The EV spread here is the only thing on this team with even a modicum of originality. I was originally using the standard New Mixmence spread, but I didn't like how slow it was, so I read up on the analysis to see what I could take liberties with. It turns out the spread was made with Cresselia in mind, which not only has decreased immensely in usage since the onset of this set, but is also a welcome sight for this team, because Jirachi treats it as set-up bait. Max Special Attack because Draco Meteor is my main form of attack here. A +Speed nature and 188 speed EVs to outspeed most standard base 100s that run +Speed and 176, plus enough to outrun various degrees of "clever" spreads designed to outrun the same things; rest gets dumped into Attack. The decreased offenses aren't really a problem; they still OHKO and 2HKO the important walls with the relevant moves, most importantly SkarmBliss (Standard Skarm is OHKOd with Fire Blast and gets KOed by -2 Fire Blast after switching in on Draco Meteor, and Blissey is 2HKOed by Outrage) and Gyarados (which is OHKOed by Draco Meteor after Stealth Rock). More importantly, the speed lets this Salamence outrun a lot of things people think it shouldn't, such as CM Jirachi, CB Flygon, offensive Celebi variations, and all +Speed base 90s.

Named for Prof. McCann, my advisor, who, despite not actually being in the Economics department, is incredibly helpful (especially early/mid-way in my college career, just as Mixmence is especially so in the early/mid game), and is rather intimidating.

Gyarados@Leftovers: Prof. Adelstein
Adamant; 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Dragon Dance

Oh, how wonderful Gyarados is; I'm still finding out how many teams I face are Gyara-weak. He hits incredibly hard and compliments the rest of the team nicely; he takes on Infernape that come for Empoleon, Scizor that try to prey on Latias and Salamence, and many fire attacks aimed at Jirachi and Scizor. Just like Scizor, I don't really have much to say about Gyara that hasn't been said before. 184 speed to outspeed all +speed base 115s and slower after a Dragon Dance, max Attack, and the rest in HP for bulk. He holds Leftovers because he's a bulkier than many expect, and Earthquake makes the cut over Ice Fang because the latter doesn't 2HKO Celebi after one Dragon Dance without a Life Orb.

Named for Prof. Richie Adelstein, the professor for Econ 110, the first college economics class I took. He's easily my favorite professor so far. Gyarados gets his name because, just like Adelstein, he's being around forever, doing the same thing for years and years, and is the best at it. Also because they're both made of awesome.

Jirachi@Leftovers: Prof. Masami
Timid; 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 Sp
-Flash Cannon
-Thunderbolt
-Substitute
-Calm Mind

He goes down stairs, alone or in pairs, and devastates teams all around: A star, a star! From close or afar, everyone knows it's Jirachi!

Just like with Gyarados above, I'm finding out more every day how many teams have a Sub/CM Jirachi weakness, especially those which use Blissey as their main or only answer to special sweepers. He turns a lot of things that annoy this team, including Blissey, Vaporeon, and the aforementioned Cresselia, into setup bait. Another thing that's great about him is that he can switch in after a death mid-game and, because he doesn't show lefties recovery at the end of the turn, he can bluff a Choice Scarf set. It works like a charm, over and over, as people switch in their Scarf Jirachi checks right into a substitute, forcing them to switch again and giving Jirachi another free turn. It does everything I was hoping for, and more.

Named for my professor for Econ 300 (basically, stats) because they're equally quirky and idiosyncratic, and because Jirachi's slow, methodical setup mirrors Masami's slow and methodical teaching style.

----

So, there's the team. It has one glaring weakness that I know of: Electric-type moves. I have a lot of trouble dealing with fast/powerful or bulky Thunderbolt users. More specifically, the biggest problem pokemon are Agility Metagross, which are hard to kill and almost always carry Thunderpunch; Choice Scarf Magnezone, which typically comes in on Scizor and makes itself a pain for the rest of the battle; and, most of all, any Rotom-A, which is powerful enough to cause problems and bulky enough to not be brushed aside easily. It doesn't help that my only electric resist, Latias, is also weak to Ghost. The worst thing for me to see is a scarfed Rotom appliance, because it outspeeds everything but Latias, which it hits hard with Shadow Ball, and hits everything else hard with Thunderbolt. If anyone can help fix this without drastically changing the team, I'll be ecstatic.

There's my team, my current pride and joy. Rate it, hate on it, steal it if you wish. If you do steal it, please tell me, because that will absolutely make my day.

Credit, where art credit is due: Thanks to PokemonElite2000.com for their vast repository of sprites, massive thanks to aragornbird and his site arkeis.com for massive collection of Pokemon drawing that I drew from for this RMT.

Rate away!

 

[MrIndigo]

You could try replacing Salamence with Mixvire. This gives you a solution to the Thunderbolters, as well as supporting Gyarados well. Many teams are Mixvire weak, so this gives you an even bigger advantage. (I prefer Bulky Tauntados, but that's neither here nor there).

I believe the convention these days is to use Wish over Substitute on Jirachi. It gives you greater longevity, while still allowing you to set up on Blissey and the like (without wasting 75% of your health). In a pinch, it can also pass Wishes to the rest of the team.

 

[Taang]

Hello,

Change Latias' nature to Timid over Modest. This will allow you to outspeed positive natured +1 Salamence and Gyarados, along with other +2 Pokemon such as Empoleon. Scizor's EV spread could benefit from 160 HP | 176 Atk | 168 SpD | 4 Spe which will allow you to take Draco Meteors, Surfs, Thunderbolts, and other Special moves much better. This will also allow you to take out Latias, Starmie, Cresselia, etc.. much more efficiently and living with more health. Jirachi's EV spread should be changed to 252 HP | 252 Def | 4 Spe along with a Bold nature. This will give you a reliable tank that can literally break stall in half as well as giving you a much needed Wish passer. Since Salamence & Gyarados are both 2x weak to Stealth Rock and Latias & Scizor are both taking damage every time they switch in. A Wish passer will significantly help your team.

Good Luck with your team!

 

[george182]

I would suggest a shuca berry on empoleon:
- it allows you to come out of the lead spot with above half health, thus making empoleon more use midgame
- It means your not on 1hp and therefore you can switch back into stealth rocks
- It means your not on 1hp so a faster priority user can't bring you to your sahs and kill you
- It allows you to use surf over hydro pump for more accuracy.
- Focus sash has no real bonuses, the onyl common fighting lead is infernape, who has fake out making a sash useless.
- It means you can come in to SR and not worry about your sash beign broken.

Overall shucca berry empoleon can take hits and 2hko/1hko almost every common lead, and be useful mid game.

and i will agree with the mix evire suggestion, you need someone to absorb thunderbolts and mix evire can also act as a wall break and a gimick sweeper, he would be great for this team, especialy if empoleon dosn't hav a sash, which people will expect so they won't predict the evire switch and no one takes a risk on a +2 gyrados.

I also think tauntrados could be more useful, as with taunt he can also allow jirachi to set up, but mroe importantly it can get him an extra dragon dance. Here is a common situation:
- oponent switches to phazaer, you dragon dance up
- You taunt, opoent fails to roar/wirlwind
- You dragon dance up as the phazer switches out

Your on plus 2 instead of plus 1 and are able use gyrados' taunt to break stall and stop calm mind cune from sweeping your team. He also can have good coverage with return or bounce, bounce works well will stall and can provide some parahax to discourage the foe form switching and taunt + bounce can net you some nice leftovers recovery, meaning you can repeatedly swithc in and crush and switch out again. Tauntrados is beter early game, and gyrados is better at ripping an oponents team apart early game, salamence is better in almost every aspect for late game.

 

[Nonary Game]

I'd make a recommendation for a Chople berry for Empoleon, since it will let you defeat Infernape leads. Shuca is also viable, as the above poster mentioned. Empoleon already has the bulk it needs to survive all but critical Earthquakes from every lead bar Mamoswine.

And george182, it NEEDS Hydro Pump. It cannot secure some crucial KOs otherwise.

Jolteon or anything with electric attacks could be a potential nuisance to your team. I don't see Blissey to cause this team too many problems, and Jirachi seems to be the weak link of the team. You could consider a bulky ground like Swampert, seeing how he can take Electric attacks all day.

I'll expand a bit further on this when I get back.

 

[Snorlaxe]

Hi there.

This is an interesting team, but I feel that it could be improved. First off, I think that you should run a lead Roserade over your current Empoleon lead. Toxic Spikes is a huge help for Jirachi (and to a lesser extent, Gyarados), as it allows them to stall out their counters while they stat up. Use a set of Sleep Powder, Toxic Spikes, Grass Knot, and Hidden Power Ice, a Timid nature, and an EV spread of 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (item Focus Sash). Roserade is a great lead to use against more bulky leads, as it can sleep them with Sleep Powder and then proceed to stack Toxic Spikes. Grass Knot is a reliable STAB move that OHKOes both Swampert and Hippowdon, and Hidden Power Ice allows you to hit less common leads like Gliscor, as well as OHKO Salamence and Flygon that may switch in. The only problem with Roserade is that she is shut down by Taunt leads, but this isn't a huge problem; she can always switch out then come in and stack Toxic Spikes later.

I also think that this team needs a Rapid Spinner; Gyarados and Salamence both take 25% damage on the switchin thanks to the omnipresent Stealth Rock, and allowing such important Pokemon on your team to be damaged as such is unacceptable. I think that you should consider using a Rapid Spinning Life Orb Starmie over Latias. Use a set of Hydro Pump, Rapid Spin, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt, a Timid nature, and a spread of 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe. Life Orb Starmie is a huge special threat thanks to it's respectable special attack, great speed, and fantastic type coverage due to its wide special movepool. It is also a great Rapid Spinner, easily capable of 2HKOing every Spin Blocker in the game (besides Spiritomb). Hydro Pump is better than Surf on this set so that you can always 2HKO bulky Rotom-A and occasionally OHKO Scizor. If you think that removing Latias would make you weak to Gyarados and Salamence, this isn't really entirely true; Starmie isn't OHKOed by Gyarados's +1 Waterfall, and can OHKO with Thunderbolt. As for Salamence, when it is locked into Outrage, you can switch in Jirachi. That is essentially free turns for it to set up.

A few minor things; I think that you should try running Taunt on Gyarados in place of one of your non-STAB moves, probably Earthquake. Taunt not only makes Gyarados a great stallbreaker, but it also allows him to easily set up on many of the metagame's best walls, like Bronzong, Skarmory, and Blissey. Not only that, but Taunt Gyarados is great at stalling out bulky-waters, Gyarados's number one counter. Also, you are going to want to run a Naive nature on Salamence so as to not lower its defense; this will allows it to take Scizor's Bullet Punches with much more ease. Plus, special attacks are simply not as common as physical attacks in the current OU metagame.

Hope I helped, and good luck! ;)

 

[weaselForce1]

Hey, thanks for the advice everyone! I've never had such rapid response to an RMT.

First, a major change: Ultimania92, I agree with you that Jirachi is the weak link of the team. I'm going to try an offensive Calm Mind Raikou@Life Orb with Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball/Hidden Power Fighting/Calm Mind in that slot, and I'll update the topic with how it works out. If it does, I'll keep that there; if it doesn't, I'll try out MrIndigo's and george182's suggestions to try Mixvire, and see how it goes from there.

Now, for minor changes: Per Snorlaxe's suggestion, I switched Salamence's nature from Hasty to Naive. I doubt it will help it take bullet punches much better, but Salamence's Intimidate, along with the general physical tendency of the metagame he mentioned, make a defense-neutral nature make much more sense.

I'm currently trying out Shuca berry on Empoleon; once I'm decided on that, I'll run some calcs to see if Timid is worth the power loss on Latias and if Taang's Scizor spread works better for my team, and I'll test if Tauntrados is better than the set that I have.

Thanks again!

 

[george182]

I dont think Jirachi is the weak link, Jirachi is one of the best sweepers in the game and can just 6-0 the many OU teams that are not prepared for her.

Jirachi and gyrados work really well together and jirachi is capable of outstalling blissey 1 vs 1 get to plus 5 (not 6), then flash cannon for the 3hko, if blissey softboils you gain lefties and serene grace sp.def drop will come into play, with empoleon OHKOing lead swamperts, you hav some great synergy there, then you have the effective lati/scizor revenge kill combo. This suggests that the weak link is salamence, although mixmence is good, I realy don't feel he fits this team, and mix-evire fills the spot nicely and negates the need for a rapid spinner. Not too mention that your team draws in t-bolts/t-waves to aid a mixvire sweep, and eltivire resists bullet punch and has flamethrower for scizor and hp grass as a back up too swampert, I would strongly recomend electivire, but its your choice.

Toxic spikes arnt that useful, bulky waters still KO gyrados with hp electric/t-bolt etc. Toxic spikes main use in OU is crippling blissey and celebi to bypass natural cure, however neither of them really trouble your team. So toxic spikes arent nessecery and lead empoleon with sash, chopple or shucca is probably a better option. With latias and gyrados, I highly doubt a chopple berry is needed, tbh that also means a shucca berry isnt too needed, but earthquake is the most common lead move out there, and shucca/sash is needed to survive a metagross EQ.

 

[weaselForce1]

I see what you're saying, george182, but the thing I dislike most about Electivire is that it adds yet another ground weak to this team, so if I added it, I'd have three weaknesses and only two immunities to ground, which is a massive problem when Earthquake is the most common move in the game. Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that Manaphy is now OU; Electivire, without the Motor Drive boost, is outsped by just about any Manaphy (which is a huge threat to my team), while Raikou has base 115 speed and decimates Manaphy left and right. In addition, Raikou has problems with the Swampert that Empoleon takes out, so there's synergy there, and this team doesn't have so much trouble with Blissey that I need a special sweeper that can beat her 1 on 1.