Team Paleo Wave [OU RMT]

Hi, everyone. This is crobatchop with his third RMT showcase of a rather typical but effective mixture of Pokemon.


Team at a glance

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Team Info

The well known Luke-ranitar and the infamous Luc-gar make their appearances again amazingly that would definitely give a good punch the the end of the 4th generation game. The destructive capabilities of these three Pokemon will naturally make this a heavily offensive team, or offensive at least.

There are some usual problems with a sandstorm team. One of them, clearly understandable but subtle, is the imbalance in the physical/special split. The resistance to sandstorm damage from the three types is nice, but adds to the common weaknesses as well. The third problem, of course, is when the sandstorm backfires. This happens especially against stall-based teams, where weather damage could play a rather large part.

“Lead Synergy” is probably the most inspiring article in all The Smog. Here I could get Crobat and Swarmpert working together, as together they resist quite a large number of types, and have distinct utilities. Now the obvious water and electric weakness in my team allows me to select a grass Pokemon and put it into my team (yes, because normally I don’t use grass types). Since I have a fighting type already, Celebi is my choice.

I hope you will enjoy my lead/support/core team building strategy and provide any sensible suggestions. Thank you for reading up to this far.


Detailed Description

Markers:
Old
Changes

Crobat (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 104 HP/152 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Taunt
- Roost
- U-turn
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This lovely Pokemon serves as my lead. The advantage of having an anti-lead is that you can put your opponent into a difficult situation from the start. The ability to taunt support moves and to scout with u-turn should be the shining part of this crobat. I have always used crobat in-game, simply because of its speed. When I designed a team I usually look for a speedie, and crobat does it very well. As far as wallbreaking goes, crobat should be one of the most powerful stallbreakers with its fast taunt and roost, a deadly anti-stall weapon. Don’t ever underestimate this brave bat, as it 2hko moderately defensive pokemon like flygon and scizor. Unless you are facing aerodatyl or perhaps Zapdos, you have everything you need in the wings with Swarmpert on the bench.
Taunt is probably your first move most of the time even if it’s ninjask, although I would have to beware of Azelf’s psychic. A successful taunt usually gains me the momentum of the whole early game, and scouts so that I know which Pokemon should be the one to keep. I usually have two Pokemon unrevealed after my opponent have all of his/her showed. Oh and Brave Bird is better than super fang because it can actually kill something.

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP/216 Def/52 SDef
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Surf Roar
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Personally, I don’t mind stealth rock but it would be really nice without them. More importantly though, is to get my own rocks up, and Swarmpert does a brilliant job here. Crobat’s u-turn can usually scout a lot already, so surf can be used for extra coverage. Actually, one of the main reasons I choose Swarmpert is because of its typing, sponging quite a large number of attacks including those from Scizor and Zapdos more than half of the time. I find him so valuable that I would usually keep it for the late game and stall time.
One problem I find is that Swarmpert is not easy to switch in, and fears Breloom and Roserade so much. I might want to consider Hydro Pump to clean Skarmory off as well, so I will need some suggestions from you guys. A rather common Pokemon, but it does its job quite well I must say.

Celebi @ Choice Scarf Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/40 Spd/216 SDef
Bold nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Fire Ice]
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
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My Paleo Wave. Unlike using its fellow speedmate Flygon, who is expected to be scarfed most of the time, Celebi can actually net a revenge kill by the fact that the opponent is not aware of the choice scarf. Trick because sometimes, Celebi won’t need the scarf to deal with Suicune, and the scarf gags Snorlax and the likes as if making a path for them to faint. I might want to use hp fire or recover instead with the Dragons’ disappearance.
It is possible to trick first as long as it’s not Scizor or Heatran, because Blissey and Snorlax switchins are not uncommon at all. Actually, Celebi is more like my only answer to water types. Many might treat Celebi a wall and setup on it such as taunt, only to be KOed fast. It’s a pity though Celebi manages a 2HKO on Gyarados after SR, but not even a 3HKO without.

Defensive Celebi gives me counters and eases prediction, and consequently lettting me getting control of the game. As I have said in the section of crobat before, recover is the main thing that makes this Celebi so useful. Grass Knot is also working better for Celebi. I do really like the surprise element in putting a scarf on Celebi, but now I understand why Celebi is not a top candidate for that: it lacks coverage. Rather, with Rotom-H being versaile and unpredictable, the effect is even scarier. The additional thunder wave supports Lucario in some ways, that faster Pokemon will be crippled and will not ruin Lucario's sweep.

Gengar (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
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Subsitute and pain split makes perfect sense in a sandstorm environment, and makes an Explosion absorber as well. Beats Blissey when Crobat makes sure it uses toxic (oh and yes, crobat’s immunity is a big thing in anti-stall). I find it pretty acceptable not having thunderbolt, as the set can at least 2hko everything not named Blissey. Lure in Scizor and the likes wand I make sure they are choiced.
Substitute makes life so much easier for the most part. Perfect coverage with two moves, but it fails to be faster than Starmie and Azelf, so Gengar will usually have to wait for choice users and roserade and the likes.

Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat
- Trick
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My new Scarfer, as explained in Celebi's corner. As I get better, consistency will be more important than annoyance. Overheat now allows me to deal with steel types properly, and STABs are used for general revenge killing. Even with trick, the scarfholder needs the scarf more than it tricks.

Bit (Lucario) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Stone Edge Crunch
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This female dog creature needs no explanation. Actually... stone edge because it can then beat Gyarados since Rotom is usually scarfed. A more reliable sweeper than Salamence (please don’t make a pointless discussion about Salamence here) because the powerful 120 CC is backed by a strong priority. That is to say, you still need quite a lot of experience with Lucario, especially those won’t don’t run calcs in battles like me.

Tyranitar (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk/208 Spd/48 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Crunch Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Flamethrower
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Tyranitar never fails to be the surprise. It is probably apparent that this tyranitar bluffs the choice set as it contains the bog standard move of the CB/CS set: pursuit. Recently though, I find that pursuit isn’t used as much, so I am considering Stone Edge. Very reliable to say at least, Tyranitar is one of the elite competitive Pokemon in standard.The speed here allows me to be faster than certain Pokemon like Scizor and Blissey and lets me beat them without taking status (or OHKO in the case of Scizor).


Problems

Scizor – Yeah some mistakes here. I did not have opposing Scizor in mind when I build this team, so I am afraid I will have to pay the price. SD Scizor could be gg, but Swarmpert can somehow wall it otherwise. Rotom can now check this jack as well.

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Rotom – A Pokemon which puts me into a tough situation frankly. The oven versions are handled well by Tyranitar, but cut and wash forms are common as well. If it is scarfed Lucario might lose the chance to sweep. Scarf Rotom helped a bit, but still.

Mamoswine – This happens mostly in hail teams. I am quite sure that all my Pokemon are prone to Ice Shard + Earthquake Combo, especially if it’s Jolly. Not with Rotom.

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Roserade,
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Breloom – my mid-game is usually limited because I use Swarmpert and Tyranitar quite a lot, none of which can handle these threats. Crobat should threaten them well enough, but the spore or toxic spikes cannot be overlooked. Celebi can briefly counter them.

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Jirachi – Scarfed versions could ruin Lucario’s sweep, while CM will give me a lot of trouble.

Gliscor - omg

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Azelf,
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Zapdos,
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Aerodatyl – Lead Problems. Because I run the risk of getting OHKOed in the first turn, which is never cool.

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Infernape – have seen much for a while, will definitely prove itself a problem with priorities super effective type coverage. Rotom can revenge now.

Please remind me if I have missed out and troublesome scenarios.


Suggestions
I think
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Heatran will fit nicely in my team but I appear to have a Poke-slot syndrome. I still need to cover a lot of water Pokemon. It also counters and checks the majority of the Pokemon of the list above.

Thank you for reading this, and again, I hope many of you experts will give
some really fruitful advices.
 
I'm no OU professor but I would really consider changing crobat to comething else due to the danger of Azelfs (especially ShinyAzelf's) lurking around as explosion/physic leads.
 
I'm no OU professor but I would really consider changing crobat to comething else due to the danger of Azelfs (especially ShinyAzelf's) lurking around as explosion/physic leads.

Crobat is just going to outspeed, Taunt, and then next turn U-Turn to break the Sash.

If you'd like to keep bluffing the Tyranitar is holding CS/CB, I would suggest keeping Pursuit. Stone Edge is pretty much standard on almost every one of Tyranitar's sets.
 
But wouldn't Azlef just use Psychic knowing that the taunt match is not useful, and it's OHKO.

If Tyranitar uses Stone Edge, then Lucario will have Crunch instead. I'll see.

UKF, if I replace Crobat with someone else, who would that be? Is that Pokemon able to use a fast taunt? Quick U-turn for scouting? SR? Great mid-match value? etc. These are all the things I would have in mind, and a good rater should be advising upon these. Right now I am still not clear what you want me to do.
 
My gut tells my Crobat would do better with a focus sash, with such frailness

Ok, what are you doing? Sash on Crobat Sucks like hell, plus, who is it for? Aero? its handled by Swampert, Azelf? its handled by Tyranitar, so no need to use Focus Sash, pokemon in the lead position are handled pretty well. No offence, your guts? lol.


Oh Hi! i got your PM ^^

Anyways on the rate, well, i can't rate that much now, its late night,,like 11 pm :X

Well, Whats Swamepert doing that for and he does have surf .-. That sucks, you can just use Roar to Scout :D, Scouting is the best for lucario to sweep ;D.So Roar > Surf. Ice beam + Earthquake have decent coverage anyways.

Hmm, defensive celebi and scarf rotom is better than Celebi + Gengar, your team is weak to Sword dance Scizor + Lucario, even Celebi takes 64.6% - 76.3% from Extremespeed which is a 2HKO and gengar might run into a rare bullet punch set that does 95.4% - 112.6%. Pretty dangerous, so you might want to run Rotom-H

So much for short rate, oh yeah, its short and i will update it in hours time or tmrw

Good Luck!
 
Hey I got your message. I'll tell you that my first impression, is that Scizor, as you have noticed, is a large threat- but scarf scizor is the anti-christ! I'm not sure if you've run into him, but what he does is murder 4/6 of your team, which is obviously a problem. Infernape too can sweep a large portion of this team, but he's less worrisome because of Gengar. I don't really see that big a weakness to Rotom though, as scarfed ones are stopped by Tyranitar and Gengar can set up on others. Onto the actual suggestions:

Crobat seems pretty pointless actually. As anti-leads go, he's not the best and doesn't really benefit this team too much. I'd say he should be replace for a Gyarados. I think he fulfills a lot of synergy problems this team has. Swampert could become the lead. He should run Roar though, as you don't really need Surf in my opinion. And yes, this does make you weaker to Rotom-a, which is why I have another suggestion.

Lucario has much better options for the last slot, in my opinion. Stone Edge hits what, Gyarados? After switching in twice he'll die to extremespeed anyway, and he'll usually outspeed. I'd change Stone Edge to Crunch and nature to Jolly. This will allow him to get around Rotom no problem, assuming no scarf, which can be pursuited by Tyranitar anyway.

That's all I got, hope this helped.
 
Hello,

I noticed that you were considering putting Heatran in somewhere on your team. If you do decide to make this change, an easy way to add it would be to use it as a lead. This will complete a Fire/Water/Grass core of Heatran, Swampert and Celebi, which should work quite well in covering each others' weaknesses. I've been recommending this set a lot lately for its ability to unexpectedly OHKO leads such as Machamp and opposing Swampert:

Heatran (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 174 HP/84 Spd/252 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- Hidden Power Grass
- Explosion

Adding this Heatran lead will give you two Stealth Rock users, which is redundant. Therefore, feel free to add an additional move instead of Stealth Rock on whichever Pokemon you find to require it more. For example, I would recommend using Roar somewhere on Swampert's moveset to help phaze out any threats.

Good luck with your team!
 
I suggest you keep the Crobat lead. People don't know the power of it. However, I would like to suggest Super Fang > U-turn if you're not too iffy with the lack of scouting. It works for me.

Also, I would like to ask what happens if a Gyarados happens to stat-up while Swampert is dead? It seems the only solution to a boosted Gyarados is to roar it out, or deal damage with Shadow Ball/Extremespeed. Most Gyarados come with them FWG cores and Swampert is quite threatened by all the Shaymins (especially since it's not weak to Pursuit) and Celebis running about.

@ all above: Crobat's bulk is underestimated. It is 3HKOed by Swampert's Ice Beam, allowing you to play mind games with Taunt (preventing Roar) and Roost (making it into a 5HKO) while you whittle it down to Brave Bird KO range via Super Fang. It does the same for Blissey too. Azelf you can Taunt first turn, most of them lay SR first not expecting a Crobat at all. If the 50-50 dice is rolled the wrong way and you're up against one of them newfangled anti-LeadChamp Azelf with Psychic AND your opponent attacks first, then bad luck.
 
Alright, I know I don't have the seniority of people here, but I'm going to throw my two cents in on Crobat.

I've been working with a Crobat lead myself, and it goes pretty well. Taunt does cover everything except Aerodactyl, and against more offensive leads, you can U-turn away.

Azelf is a huge problem because of STAB Psychic, or even Fire Blast. My solution is to keep Focus Sash on Crobat and go with a Super Fang / U-turn combo for a 2HKO. It will leave your bat at 1 hp, and pretty useless, admittedly, but (since I run Super Fang over Brave Bird) it can switch in later on a wall and with it's amazing speed take 50% of their HP away, which is a nice start to wall breaking(Barring Hippowodon who will just Slack Off.)

I do like pairing Crobat with Swampert, because Swampert can take any of Crobat's weaknesses and set up Stealth Rock. I personally use Donphan for lead synergy and take the risk of running into lead Mamoswine who ruin that combo's day.

Good luck on the team.
 
Re: Third RMT!

Hey, thanks everyone for giving such detailed information, I meant that sincerely. And a good thing to see there is a wide variety of responses as well, some of which are more tailored for my team, while some are more metagame-minded, and I believe both of these elements would be important. So, I am going to go through some of the suggestions all of you have put here: (the rating I put here is based on how convinced I am, and not on the users' experience and skill)

@ Pen Ink, Smith: Putting Crunch on Lucario (and subsequently Stone Edge on Tyranitar)
I understand that Crunch is more accurate and useful, although I did run into Gyarados sometimes and KOed it. I am changing on that, but would you suggest why Jolly > Adamant? Thanks. Oh, I have also seen a double priority Lucario, but that's just situational and the standard is better right?
Rating: 7/10
Crunch > Stone Edge for Lucario

@ Azlanslayer: Replacing Surf with Roar
Scouting is obviously the choice for a well prepared Lucario sweep, but here are the questions: Would a team without a single water move be ok?
You said roar can stop Gyarados' DD sweep, but Bulkygyara with taunt can screw you up, so what should be done (and come to think of it, surf won't do any good either)?
When would be the best time for Lucario to come in then?
Rating: 7/10
Roar > Surf for Swarmpert

@ Alzanslayer: Replacing Gengar with Def Celebi + Scarf Rotom
So basically I have a wall Pokemon, and Scarf Rotom that does pretty much the same job as Gengar except it's tougher but scarfed. Sounds good. And Rotom resists Bullet Punch. Might do that actually.
Rating: 8/10
I'll try that. EDIT: Wait which Rotom?

@Faladran: Adding LO Support Heatran
I can see that would be a cool set. If I do use Heatran to complete the FWG core, which Pokemon should I replace? (and why?)
What are the previlages and weaknesses of adding Heatran and how to deal with it?
Rating: 5/10
Very good sugestions, but slightly lack of instructions

@Smith, Min Min, Nakun: Issues with Crobat
Never mind about my favourite Pokemon. How is Gyarados going to fulfil the synergy though? Come to think of it, Crobat would be one of those anti-FWG Pokemon. I am not saying that Gyarados is useless on this team, but giving up U-turn and roost to me is a great deal.
Rating (+ Gyarados): 3/10
Rating (focus sash): 1/10

Don't worry though, I will take time to try out as many of these suggestions as possible.
 
@ Azlanslayer: Replacing Surf with Roar
Scouting is obviously the choice for a well prepared Lucario sweep, but here are the questions: Would a team without a single water move be ok?
You said roar can stop Gyarados' DD sweep, but Bulkygyara with taunt can screw you up, so what should be done (and come to think of it, surf won't do any good either)?
When would be the best time for Lucario to come in then?
Rating: 7/10
Roar > Surf for Swarmpert

@ Alzanslayer: Replacing Gengar with Def Celebi + Scarf Rotom
So basically I have a wall Pokemon, and Scarf Rotom that does pretty much the same job as Gengar except it's tougher but scarfed. Sounds good. And Rotom resists Bullet Punch. Might do that actually.
Rating: 8/10
I'll try that.

Hey, thanks for the High ratings :)

A team without a single water move is ok, because many of the threats are pretty much covered by your team. The only problem with Swampert is that it can't touch Bulky Gyarados, so thats when Scarf Rotom comes in to revenge kill Gyarados, as well as crippling Blissey, Suicune, Vaporeon or any wall with Trick. Like i said, Roar to Scout and to Stack up SR damage.

Also, i don't see a need for Stone edge on Lucario since Gyarados is covered by Rotom, Crunch or Bullet punch is a better choice to prevent Gengar, Celebi, Def Rotom from ruining your sweep.
Zapdos is handle well by Tyranitar, so there's no need for Stone Edge.

I See your team can't handle Breloom, since you are using replacing scarf Celebi with Def Celebi, you have a Good counter for breloom, just use Psychic on the moveset. Celebi will laugh at the pathetic Breloom, barely doing any damage other than a Crit. Just make Pert or Tyranitar your fodder and Celebi comes in.

Good Luck!
 
OK this is kind of a bump but somehow not... my team is pretty Gliscor weak, whichever version. This is going to wreck my team, especially whened paired with Tspikes (coming from Roserade that is).
 
Of you are having Gliscor Problem, maybe you should remove Hp Fire with Hp Ice on Celebi. It counter's gliscor pretty well, even KOing them + surprising them. Since you have Rotom, Steel types won't be bothering you much. Alternative way is to use Hp Ice > Overheat, and you lose your counter for Scizor, so i suggest u use Rotom-W if you follow this advice =). Scaring off heatran because of Hydro Pump xD

Good Luck
 
Okay, should have done this before but it slipped my mind. Have you considered a full-on Mixtar? You mentioned Pursuit not having much use, so why not Ice Beam? Handles Gliscor switch-ins like popsicles. You do loe a large unpredictability factor, thoughh.
 
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