Team Saved by the Bell [Standard]

At a glance

487.png
121.png
286.png
227.png
242.png
145.png


Introduction
I am a huge fan of balanced out games. I like a team with both offense and defense. A team that contains different roles, and do pretty much everything, like the kids in the show Saved by the Bell. It seems like the gang does EVERYTHING, like singing in a band, start business, being part of every cliche, like Football, Cheerleading, or simply getting good grades and being a leader.

I've been reading a lot about the UU metagame, and there's this Grass/Fire/Water combo of Pokemon that appears to be very effective. I wanted to bring that to Standard play and think of it as a team of Pokemon that Gary Oak would use. If you guys remember from RBY and GSC, his team usually consisted of Gyarados, Arcanine, Exeggutor, Rhydon, Alakazam, and Pidgeot. It's like a team of the most common types of Pokemon you'd see, and it's pretty cool. I'm a fan of RBY Pokemon since that was a big part of my childhood, the show, Pokemon cards, Pokemon Snap, Blue and Stadium, and even action figures lol, while all I did for other generations was just play their games.

Team Building

So I wanted to start looking at that Water/Grass/Fire type combo, and I looked for Water Pokemon. When I see RBY Pokemon, the first Pokemon that came to mind was Starmie. Starmie is very versatile. Amazing type coverage, very fast, and it's powerful when it holds a Life Orb, and it can heal off the recoil with Recover. It's a good revenge killer for Pokemon with base 110 speed with a positive nature, and it scares away Salamence, Gyarados, Infernape, and some other top tier threats off the field. What really makes Starmie so cool is that it's Misty's second most valued Pokemon after Staryu, so it's like the second most notable fully evolved Water type after Blastoise (in my childhood...).
121.png


Now I wanted a Fire type. I am not interested in any of the Fire types in OU. In UU, Arcanine seems to be a top tier threat with his ridiculous versatility and decent bulk. It attacks well at both sides of the spectrum, it gets Flare Blitz as STAB, and Morning Sun to heal off any recoil. Extremespeed helps it from fast and frail Pokemon. It's a really good counter to Scizor, as long as it does not switch in to Superpower (but Intimidate helps take the hit), or U-Turn. Arcanine has been one of Gary's most valued Pokemon, so it's like the second most notable Fire type after Charizard.
121.png
59.png

Now I wanted a Grass type. There are not many great Grass types out there. None of the Grass types in UU are very formidable. When I think of Grass types, I think of something that resists anything Fire is weak to. Fire is weak to Water, Rock, and Ground. Most Grass types cover Water and Ground, but stay Neutral to Rock. There is one Pokemon that resists all types that a pure Fire type is weak to, and that is Breloom. Although Breloom is frail, it can switch in on a Swampert's Earthquake, which seems to be Arcanine's biggest nightmare, and then either Spore it, or kill it with Seed Bomb. I remember having a ton of fun using Breloom in Ruby version, owning everything with Mach Punch.
121.png
59.png
286.png

Now I need a defensive core. My favorite physically defensive Pokemon is Skarmory. I see myself as a very defensive player, and I've played against other Stall teams with mine, and it's a mess. I'd rather play against offensive teams with my defensive ones. Since this is a balanced out team, I can have trouble with stall, since none of the offensive Pokemon here are too powerful, and don't set up to become more powerful, with the exception of Breloom, but he has weak type coverage. So I decided to use Skarmory as a wall that stops stall. This is done so with the move Taunt, and Special Defense EVs. Things like Vaporeon and Blissey can't hurt it hard with their attacks, and Skarmory sets up Spikes while healing off damage.
121.png
59.png
286.png
227.png

Special defensive Skarmory isn't fat enough to absorb special attacks, so I needed something more dedicated. Without a doubt, Blissey is the most reliable special wall, and has many, many options to choose. This team is not made to be a 'suck a dick' stall team, so using things like Toxic and Protect will not help the other members of the team. The team dislikes status, A LOT, so I decided to use a Cleric. It uses Aromatherapy to rid paralysis off of Arcanine, Breloom, and even Skarmory, as its Speed is necessary to outspeed stalling walls and Taunt them. It absorb attacks from fast and powerful special attackers, and then cripple them with Thunder Wave so the team can deal with finishing them off.
121.png
59.png
286.png
227.png
242.png

So now the team needs a lead. Stealth Rock is appreciated to help Starmie OHKO some threats. I've read about Choice Scarf Azelf, and I think it's marvelous.
487.png
121.png
59.png
286.png
227.png
242.png



After the Trial
I've done some testing, and there has been some flaws. The most notable is that since Heatran is allowed in Standard, Arcanine is worthless. I hate that walking volcano. It makes all fire types except for Infernape and possibly Moltres nonviable for standard play. I can't even go Flash Fire back at it since that thing can still annihilate it with Earth Power. I can't go on with Arcanine any longer.
487.png
121.png
286.png
227.png
242.png

At this point, I decided to ditch the whole Grass/Fire/Water combo idea, and just take what I got, and improve from there. Since Arcanine was out, I wanted to use up the space for a more dedicated physical tank. It needed a different typing. I also did not want it to become worthless to Tricked out Choice items, so it needed some power. Swampert can work, with his hard weakness to Grass can be laughable for Skarmory. It would have some issues though: if it gets Tricked a Scarf, it becomes severely neutered, and the added Speed won't help it at all since it's only base 60, and I'm not using any Speed EVs, and I'm holding a -Speed nature. I also loved holding Fire Type attacks. When I'm in to the nostalgia of RBY Pokemon, good defenses and offenses, and possesion of Fire type moves, I thought Zapdos will work. Zapdos also works as a Scizor counter as it resists everything it has bar Pursuit or Night Slash. Zapdos can Roost to stay alive, and it has Pressure to PP stall those that are not too powerful. I guess having an Electric type also reminds me alot of how I always used Electric Pokemon in RBY, as Thunder Wave was the best move in the game at that time. And I always thought Zapdos was really frikkin cool, as it beat the other two birds, and it got good STAB in Drill Peck. Zapdos was also my favorite Pokemon card. I looked at Zapdos instead of Rotom-H for the reason that Zapdos can heal itself, and it isn't Pursuit-owned like Starmie...although Rotom-A has Will-o-Wisp, but the weak accuracy there is really iffy. Using Heat Wave means Zapdos can stay in, tanking hits while delivering some back, while Overheat means that special attacks will do next to nothing after one use of the Fire move. Rotom-A's spinblocking abilities still leaves me looking back sometimes... I can also use Moltres to still have that Fire/Grass/Water combo, as it can also be very defensive, holds Will-o-Wisp and uses Fire type attacks very well, but the 4x Stealth Rock weakness is an off putting and Moltres does not have very good type coverage.
487.png
121.png
286.png
227.png
242.png
145.png

Breloom stays. Its usefulness to deal with any Tyranitar is welcome. Whether it is Choice Band, Breloom would have the Speed EVs to safely put Jolly Tyranitar to sleep and then set up a Swords Dance or two, or simply finish it off, and it has Mach Punch to eliminate the Dragon Dancer. The Dragon Dancers who are afraid of priority opt for a Babiri Berry. And when it uses Life Orb, I can laugh back at Toxic Spike users, since the team dislikes it.

I've been disappointed that Blissey can't learn both Wish and Aromatherapy. Recently I found out that Blissey was one of the hundreds of Pokemon that get Heal Bell, and I was glad to hear that it is legal with Wish. Wish became really useful to use when Blissey is near full health, and a physical attacker like Salamence arrives, only to damage 70% of HP off of Bold Blissey with Outrage, and it gets OHKO'd back with Ice Beam, and laugh as it recovers 50% right after. Now with Wish, the weakened sweepers can get right back on the fields and do some work, rather than serve as death/trick fodder. Starmie does not really need to Recover itself, and now it uses Rapid Spin to remove annoying entry hazards. Especially Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes.

Starmie still loves its amazing type coverage and its new utility in Rapid Spin, making it more useful.

So without further ado, here are the sets
Team Saved by the Bell

Azelf.png

Lisa Turtle
Azelf@Choice Scarf
Levitate
Jolly
40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Trick
U-Turn
Explosion
Stealth Rock


Synergy

ghost_big.png
->
MDP227.png
MDP242.png

dark_big.png
->
MDP227.png
MDP286.png

bug_big.png
->
MDP227.png
MDP145.png


It sets up Stealth Rock and Explodes when it's done. It Tricks, then U-Turns away for scouting. It can also server as Trick fodder if someone wants to try to do that to one of the tanks. The 216 Speed EVs ensure I outpace all +Speed natured base 110s in a Choice Scarf.

121Starmie.png

Jesse Spano
Starmie@Life Orb
Natural Cure
Timid
40 Def / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Hydro Pump
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Grass Knot


Synergy

ghost_big.png
->
MDP227.png
MDP242.png

dark_big.png
->
MDP227.png
MDP286.png

grass_big.png
->
MDP227.png
MDP145.png
MDP286.png

electric_big.png
->
MDP286.png

bug_big.png
->
MDP227.png
MDP145.png


216 Speed EVs outspeeds all positive base 110s. Hydro Pump provides harder power than Surf, and gets an 80% chance to OHKO Tyranitar after Stealth Rock. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are nice traits to Starmie, and helps revenge kill threats. Grass Knot is a cool coverage move that also stops Swampert, and the rare Lanturn and Rhyperior. Having Jesse on the field would prevent Salamence or Gyarados from coming in, even after a teammate has fallen. Other water types are jealous because they have to resort to HP Electric.


286Breloom.png

AC Slater
Breloom@Life Orb
Poison Heal
Jolly
252 Atk / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Spore
Swords Dance
Mach Punch
Seed Bomb


Synergy

flying_big.png
->
MDP145.png
MDP227.png

fire_big.png
->
MDP121.png

ice_big.png
->
MDP121.png

poison_big.png
->lol, gimme the Toxic
psychic_big.png
->
MDP121.png
MDP227.png
MDP482.png


The muscle of the team. 184 Speed EVs will outspeed Jolly Tyranitar, who will meet a Spore. If Tyranitar scores a Dragon Dance, Mach Punch will put him away. Even then, all enemies slower than 244 speed will be put to Sleep with Spore, while Slater safely sets up a Swords Dance. If one is already put to sleep, opposing Swampert who think Slater is holding Stone Edge+Mach Punch will get beat by Seed Bomb. The team really dislikes Toxic Spikes, so Slater can get in and laugh back, as Life Orb recoil is nullified and he heals 2.5% of HP each turn.

242Blissey.png

Kelly Kapowski
Blissey@Leftovers
Natural Cure
Bold
252 Def / 40 SpA / 216 SpD
Heal Bell
Wish
Ice Beam
Thunder Wave



Synergy

fighting_big.png
->
MDP145.png
MDP121.png
MDP482.png


All teammates dislike certain status, so if any teammates take an unfavorable status, they will be saved by the Heal Bell (pun). I've always wanted to use Aromatherapy+Wish to make the greatest cleric ever, but she gets Heal Bell so Kelly is very capable of completely cleaning up a friend. Thunder Wave is for crippling opponents so the rest of the gang can have an easier time doing their job. Ice Beam is for Salamence. If Kelly is Bold, she'll survive a Jolly Life Orb Outrage from Salamence, and she'll OHKO him with Ice Beam after Stealth Rock. Seismic Toss is not here since she will not be able to touch Levitating Ghosts behind a Sub, like Gengar. Ice Beam has a chance at breaking a Sub. Sometimes I wish I had more Special attack EVs though, but Blissey needs to take boosted special attacks at all costs.

227.png

Zack Morris
Skarmory@Shed Shell
Keen Eye
Careful
252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Taunt
Spikes
Roost
Whirlwind


Synergy

electric_big.png
->
MDP286.png

fire_big.png
->
MDP121.png


Zack here likes to Taunt his opponents showing off how cool his metal jacket is, so all those nerds trying to stall would stop what they are doing and try to hit him. The Special Defense EVs will protect him from weaker Special attacks from Swampert, Blissey, or Vaporeon who would often like to waste time. 80 SpA Flamethrowers will only hurt 33.53% - 39.52% of his health. 0 SpA Surfs from Vaporeon only damages 30.84% - 36.83%, so Zack has free time to set up Spikes, and Roost in between. If I have problems with Dragon Dance Salamence, and he is Outraging, Skarmory can take hits, Roost, maybe a layer of Spikes, and watch Life Orb recoil build up, and Whirlwind his Dragon Dance away, forcing him to switch in on Stealth Rock again.

145Zapdos.png

Screech Powers
Zapdos@Leftovers
Pressure
Bold
248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
Thunderbolt
Heat Wave
Toxic
Roost

Synergy

ice_big.png
->
MDP121.png

rock_big.png
->
MDP286.png


Zack didn't do his Defensive homework, but Screech did. Thunderbolt hits Gyarados for a OHKO, and Heat Wave does that for Scizor. Roost keeps him alive and it sheds off his weaknesses. I can use Hidden Power Grass for Swampert, but then I have to deal with Blissey. I don't really wanna switch to Zack or Slater to deal with it and meet unfavorable status, so Toxic can work for both Blissey and Swampert. Blissey might Thunder Wave or Toxic him, but Kelly can heal that status off for him.




Comments
So there we have a Balanced team. I noticed a flaw after reading how I deal with threats, and that is that I am way too reliant on Hydro Pump. The power drop to Surf would not be worth it at all, since I won't be able to kill many frail things in one hit. Changing to Modest is no option because Starmie needs to outspeed Positive speed natured Pokemon with a higher base speed than 100. The main reason I chose Starmie over Gyarados as the RBY Water Pokemon, is that Gyarados is not very effective without a Dragon Dance, and I don't have much time to set up, while Starmie can hit right off the bat with excellent Speed and decent Special Attack, and a Life Orb, with attacks of high Base Power. Breloom has the time to set up because of Spore.
You may think that not having a spinblocker may be a big deal, but it really isn't, as this team doesn't rely on entry hazards all day. I am glad I am able to make a decent team with good synergy using my favorite Pokemon. It's a shame Arcanine can't be used, but at least now I'm able to use my favorite Pokemon Card and still have a Scizor counter. Even if Heatran didn't exist, Arcanine would still not be in the field much because of bulky waters still being able to survive a Natural Gift Grass (even Swampert wtf) or a Thunder Fang. I'm not very good at prediction... so I might not be the best at using this team. It was fun thinking of a balanced out team for Standard play.

So, any comments? Suggestions? Advice?

Changes in italics.
 
Threats

Threat list
Ani142MS.png
Aerodactyl: The lead gets Tricked. Then I U-Turn to scout the switch.
Ani242MS.png
Blissey: Gets shat on by Zapdos' Toxic. Breloom can either beat her up or put her to sleep, and then setup. Skarmory pisses her off and she can't do much of a comeback. Kelly relieves status symptons done by Blissey.
Ani286MS.png
Breloom: Starmie outspeeds, resists Mach Punch, and kills with Ice Beam. Zapdos resists both STABs and kills with Heat Wave. Skarmory can Taunt slow SubSeeders, and doesn't get hit hard by anything but Focus Punch, while Breloom is scared of Flying type attacks.
Ani437MS.png
Bronzong: Skarmory Taunts, and Bronzong can't do anything. Breloom can put him to sleep. Zapdos resists Gyro Ball and Earthquake and can use Heat Wave. Starmie's Hydro Pump 2HKOs. Azelf can Trick.
Ani251MS.png
Celebi: Azelf can trick. Zapdos resists Grass and can use Heat Wave. Starmie can use Ice Beam if Celebi is low on HP so Grass attacks won't threaten Starmie. If Celebi is only using STAB moves, Skarmory can Taunt any setups and setup himself.
Ani488MS.png
Cressellia: Zapdos can use Toxic, Blissey walls any attack. Skarmory Taunts at its face.
Ani149MS.png
Dragonite: Starmie uses Ice Beam, Zapdos can Toxic. Skarmory can annoy as Flamethrower may not do enough damage.
Ani477MS.png
Dusknoir: Sleeps to Breloom. Taunted by Skarmory, so any field effect attempts will be prevented.
Ani466MS.png
Electivire: Zapdos can Toxic, Heat Wave and Roost, while Ice Punch or HP Ice won't do much damage. Breloom can revenge kill with Mach Punch if it gets a speed boost.
Ani395MS.png
Empoleon: Blissey walls it. Breloom can Mach Punch. Starmie can Thunderbolt.
Ani330MS.png
Flygon: Starmie can Ice Beam. Skarmory won't have to worry much about Special attacks, and takes his time to set up. If it gets caught on Fire Blast, Blissey can switch in and heal whatever and Ice Beam. If Scarf Flygon switches in on Blissey, Earthquake won't hurt it much, and Ice Beam puts a huge dent in it.
Ani205MS.png
Forretress: Taunted by Skarmory. Zapdos Heat Waves. Breloom puts it to sleep and sets up.
Ani094MS.png
Gengar: Blissey walls and cripples those without Explosion or SubPunch. Starmie outspeeds and kills with Hydro Pump.
Ani472MS.png
Gliscor: Starmie kills with Ice Beam...
Ani130MS.png
Gyarados: Starmie and Zapdos kill and outspeed with Thunderbolt.
Ani485MS.png
Heatran: Blissey walls it. Starmie can revenge kill with Hydro Pump, Breloom can do so with Mach Punch.
Ani214MS.png
Heracross: Zapdos resists its STABs and Heat Waves back.
Ani450MS.png
Hippowdon: Skarmory walls it. It is completely useless if Earthquake is its only attack. Starmie can put hurt on it with Hydro Pump or Ice Beam. Azelf Tricks the lead. Breloom resists almost everything except the occasional Ice Fang, outspeeds and puts it to sleep. Zapdos can PP stall the ones with only Earthquake.
Ani392MS.png
Infernape: It dies and is outsped by Starmie and its Hydro Pump. If it's at 38.23% of HP or lower, Breloom will always kill it with Mach Punch.
Ani385MS.png
Jirachi: Uhhh, Zapdos Heat Waves. With the leads, Azelf outspeeds so I use Stealth Rock, then I switch to Skarmory or Zapdos or Starmie if it uses Iron Head, Stealth Rock or Trick. Most of the Calm Mind variants consist of using the attacks Flash Cannon and Thunderbolt, so Zapdos can deal with it.
Ani135MS.png
Jolteon: Breloom can Mach Punch and kill if it's 47.6% or lower. Blissey walls it, and can slowly chip its health away with Ice Beam.
Ani230MS.png
Kingdra: Skarmory can come in on Outrages, and set up and phaze it away. It can't safely switch in on anything. Zapdos takes the Water assaults softer, and chips its health away with Thunderbolt and Toxic, while Roosting in between. Breloom can kill with Mach Punch if its health is at 29.8%.
Ani380MS.png
Latias: Blissey walls, cripples with Thunder Wave and chips its health off with Ice Beam. Starmie can 2HKO or revenge kill with Ice Beam. Skarmory takes soft damage from a Dragon Pulse, and 42.22% - 50% from a Specs Draco Meteor, giving time for setting up. Zapdos can Toxic.
Ani448MS.png
Lucario: Zapdos can take anything besides a boosted Stone Edge, Ice Punch, or a Specs HP Ice, and kill with Heat Wave. If it has not set up Swords Dance, Starmie and Breloom kill with Hydro Pump and Mach Punch.
Ani068MS.png
Machamp: I have issues. Breloom can put it to sleep if it has not set up a Sub, but takes hefty damage from DPunch. Starmie can revenge kill with Hydro Pump...
Ani462MS.png
Magnezone: It gets Heat Waved by Zapdos, walled by Blissey if it lacks Explosion, and can be killed by Mach Punch.
Ani473MS.png
Mamoswine: I have some issus. Starmie can kill with Hydro Pump. Skarmory can take hits but it can't do much back.
Ani376MS.png
Metagross: Zapdos resists nearly everything except Ice Punch and Explosion, and Heat Waves it to death. Breloom can put it to sleep, and set up. Hydro Pump. Azelf tricks the lead. If it sets up SR, Azelf sets it up while it switches. If it uses Meteor Mash or Bullet Punch, I switch to Zapdos or Skarmory.
Ani291MS.png
Ninjask: This can be a gamble. Some don't have protect, but some do. If they don't, Trick is the way to go, but if they do, I should set up SR. Skarmory can later Taunt or Phaze and further setting up.
Ani474MS.png
Porygon-Z: Killed by Mach Punch, walled and crippled by Blissey.
Ani407MS.png
Roserade: U-Turn to Starmie, kill with Ice Beam, and spin away hazards, or leave them in for Breloom to have a laugh.
Ani479OMS.png
Ani479WMS.png
Ani479RMS.png
Ani479FMS.png
Ani479LMS.png
Rotom-A: I've got issues with Tricksters, otherwise, Blissey walls them. I guess I could use Azelf as Trick fodder if it's still alive. Zapdos can pick on the ones without Blizzard.
Ani373MS.png
Salamence: If Starmie is in the field, it won't dare come in. If Blissey is in the field, it can survive Outrage, and OHKO with Ice Beam preventing a Dragon Dance sweep. If it is Outraging, Skarmory can take it, set up and phaze.
Ani212MS.png
Scizor: Scizor is gay. It can U-Turn away from counters. Anyway, Zapdos can kill and it resists everything it has. If Azelf is around, it can Trick its Choice Band for a weaker and useless Scarf, while Azelf's own U-Turn and Explosion is boosted. If Scizor's health is low, I can try to go for a kill with Thunderbolt using Starmie.
Ani227MS.png
Skarmory: Starmie and Zapdos have fatal moves. Breloom can Spore it before it uses a Flying type attack. My own Skarmory can Taunt it.
Ani235MS.png
Smeargle: Leads get tricked, Baton Pass chains get Taunted or phazed by Skarmory. Breloom has Mach Punch.
Ani143MS.png
Snorlax: Breloom can put it to sleep and set up. Skarmory can Taunt and phaze Curses. There might be issues.
Ani121MS.png
Starmie: Blissey absorbs its attacks. My own Starmie has its way with defensive Rapid Spinners, but it has issues with opposing Life Orb users.
Ani245MS.png
Suicune: Breloom boosts its attack and hits with Seed Bomb. Skarmory can Taunt it beforehand or phaze it while it's ResTalking. It can't come in with Starmie in the field because Thunderbolt is too dangerous. There might be issures.
Ani260MS.png
Swampert: Breloom can safely switch in, and either uses Spore or Seed Bomb. Skarmory takes almost nothing from Ice Beam, and can set up. Zapdos can use Toxic while Ice Beam does less than 50%, and Roost spam from there. Azelf can Trick the lead.
Ani073MS.png
Tentacruel: Blissey takes any attack, and cripple with Thunder Wave. Starmie spins away Toxic Spikes, and attacks with Thunderbolt. Skarmory takes any attack as well, Taunts, and wither set up Spikes or Whirlwind the switch. Zapdos doesn't care what it does and scares it with Thunderbolt.
Ani468MS.png
Togekiss: I have some issues. Blissey can cripple it with Thunder Wave. Starmie can use either Ice Beam or Thunderbolt. If it's paralyzed, Skarmory can further Taunt it or phaze it away. Zapdos resists Air Slash and Aura Sphere, and hurts with Thunderbolt or Toxic.
Ani248MS.png
Tyranitar: Breloom can switch in on a Dragon Dance or anything from the Choice Band set. If it doesn't Dragon Dance, Spore and set up. If it does, Mach Punch. Starmie's Hydro Pump has an 80% chance of OHKOing it after Stealth Rock. Skarmory can Taunt or phaze.
Ani134MS.png
Vaporeon: Skarmory Taunts and walls it. Blissey can use Heal Bell to rid itself of Toxic, but it can't do much back other than paralyze. Breloom can put it to sleep, set up, or Seed Bomb, and Starmie and Thunderbolt. Zapdos can Toxic and/or Thunderbolt.
Ani461MS.png
Weavile: I have massive issues. Skarmory can take hits, but not much back other than phaze away Swords Dances and force it to come in on Stealth Rock again. Hopefully it switches in on a status move, or any move for that matter.
Ani145MS.png
Zapdos: If it's low on health Starmie can Ice Beam. Blissey walls it and cripples with Thunder Wave. I think I got issues.
 
Bump

It appears that once one Pokemon in the team goes down, the whole team slowly goes down with it... except Skarmory's death doesn't mean much most of the time... unless there is an Outrage user.
 
I've always found that Rapid Spin is not worth the 10% recoil on the Life Orb sets of Starmie. None of your team are overly injured by Stealth Rock (Only Zapdos, who has Roost and bulky defenses), and Toxic Spikes only really harms Blissey (Starmie can spin+switch if it must), who can Heal Bell it anyway, so I'm not really clear on why you think your team hates it. I think either Recover, or some other offensive move (Grass Knot? Does Starmie learn that?) is more worthwhile on a Life Orb set.

I'd have thought that Breloom would fare better with a Toxic Orb rather than a Life Orb, generally. Does the Life Orb secure any KOs that you don't get otherwise? Particularly since it seems easier to get a second Swords Dance off if you have the 12.5% healing every turn. It also means that you can reengage the Toxic after using Blissey's Heal Bell, instead of having to rely on switching into unhealthy stuff.
 
I've always found that Rapid Spin is not worth the 10% recoil on the Life Orb sets of Starmie. None of your team are overly injured by Stealth Rock (Only Zapdos, who has Roost and bulky defenses), and Toxic Spikes only really harms Blissey (Starmie can spin+switch if it must), who can Heal Bell it anyway, so I'm not really clear on why you think your team hates it. I think either Recover, or some other offensive move (Grass Knot? Does Starmie learn that?) is more worthwhile on a Life Orb set.

I'd have thought that Breloom would fare better with a Toxic Orb rather than a Life Orb, generally. Does the Life Orb secure any KOs that you don't get otherwise? Particularly since it seems easier to get a second Swords Dance off if you have the 12.5% healing every turn. It also means that you can reengage the Toxic after using Blissey's Heal Bell, instead of having to rely on switching into unhealthy stuff.

I've been playing some battles and it seemed like Rapid Spin is just dead space. My team really isn't that weak to Toxic Spikes since one of my grounded Pokemon actually benefit from it, and the other two have Natural Cure, while one of them can heal off the status themselves. Starmie can be healed with Wish anyway. Starmie does learn Grass Knot, and there has been one situation where it could have made me win a game sooner, so I guess I'll replace Rapid Spin for that.

I am keeping Life Orb on Breloom. There's been situations where the extra power helps. A +2 Seed Bomb against a sleeping Gengar OHKOs it. A +2 Mach Punch OHKOs 4 HP Heatran 100% of the time. Heatran is also much much easier to revenge kill. Almost every other Pokemon is much easier to revenge kill. Breloom is still frail so strong super effective hits will deal massive damage so simply recovering 12.5% a turn won't help much. I don't have space to abuse Facade. A single turn of Swords Dance with a Life Orb multiplies Attack stat of 359 by 2.6, to 933.4 while using two turns to set up only multiplies it by 3, to 1077, which does not make a huge difference. Even if Blissey Heal Bells and cures itself and Breloom of Poison, it's not a big loss. Toxic Spikes are still there, since Starmie isn't spinnin' anymore.
 
I am keeping Life Orb on Breloom. There's been situations where the extra power helps. A +2 Seed Bomb against a sleeping Gengar OHKOs it.

This is true, but there are some things to note; it's not a guaranteed OHKO without Stealth Rock, and with Stealth Rock no-Life Orb still OHKOs around 8% of the time; it certainly can't switch in again. If it is asleep, the guaranteed 2HKO means that Life Orb wasn't important; and in fact you have gained a 25% HP profit out of those two turns, as opposed to a -10% loss if you OHKO with the life orb.

However, you will almost never be up against a Sleeping Gengar; the only time that a sleeper is left in the field is if it has Sleep Talk or it's being used as fodder (in which case, the number of hits is irrelevant.

A +2 Mach Punch OHKOs 4 HP Heatran 100% of the time. Heatran is also much much easier to revenge kill. Almost every other Pokemon is much easier to revenge kill.

This is a more convincing argument.

Breloom is still frail so strong super effective hits will deal massive damage so simply recovering 12.5% a turn won't help much. I don't have space to abuse Facade. A single turn of Swords Dance with a Life Orb multiplies Attack stat of 359 by 2.6, to 933.4 while using two turns to set up only multiplies it by 3, to 1077, which does not make a huge difference. Even if Blissey Heal Bells and cures itself and Breloom of Poison, it's not a big loss. Toxic Spikes are still there, since Starmie isn't spinnin' anymore.

I didn't mean to imply you had to use Facade. In any case, Life Orb seems eminently usable, I just wondered if it was importantly so, and the Heatran KOs are probably enough to warrant.
 
I know you didn't imply the use of Facade. I'm just saying that to let you know that I won't get full benefit from Toxic Orb in regards to the moveset, as offensive Toxic Orb users usually hold Facade to abuse its power.
Thanks for reminding me of how Rapid Spin wasn't very useful though.
 
I know that this would spoil the name of your team, but I really doubt the effectiveness of Heal bell. The only Pokemon I can eally see it helping is Zapdos. Two of your pokemon have natural cure, your Azelf is a suicide lead, your Breloom benefits from poison (If you run Toxic Orb, which I recommend you do, it is also protected from other status) and your Skarmory doesn't particularly care, being immune to poison (also too slow to care about paralysis, and doesn't really care about burn either since it runs no attacks and has reliable recovery.) The only thing it is protecting you from is random sleep users. I suggest either you run Protect, Toxic, or another attack.

Alternatively you could attempt to use rest users to take advantage of Heal Bell. Most of your current team members already have reliable recovery though. If you attempt this I would suggest you remove Breloom, because it benefits from status.

Can I also suggest that you use recover on your starmie over grass knot. Swampert already takes high damage from hydro pump (check this but I think a possible OHKO) as does Rhyperior (a definite OHKO.) The main advantage I can see with Grass Knot is accuracy. I dont really think starmie has any business staying in on Lanturn, who you never see anyway, whom Grass knot hits for a mere 40 base power (it is, in fact, worse than hydro pump.) Recover is needed for healing life orb damage, and can help vs stall teams.

Finally, do those 40hp evs do anything in particular for your azelf (as opposed to 4?) 252 speed would certainly be useful after you have tricked away your scarf. You have to remember when using a scarf that you create opponents with strange speed levels, so there is often little point trying to find a level that is specifically necessary.
 
I know that this would spoil the name of your team, but I really doubt the effectiveness of Heal bell. The only Pokemon I can eally see it helping is Zapdos. Two of your pokemon have natural cure, your Azelf is a suicide lead, your Breloom benefits from poison (If you run Toxic Orb, which I recommend you do, it is also protected from other status) and your Skarmory doesn't particularly care, being immune to poison (also too slow to care about paralysis, and doesn't really care about burn either since it runs no attacks and has reliable recovery.) The only thing it is protecting you from is random sleep users. I suggest either you run Protect, Toxic, or another attack.

Heal Bell has came in handy in situations. It really works when Blissey is struck in Toxic poison. Simply switching out and back in won't work because Toxic Spikes can re-poison upon entry, or they can Toxic again, forcing me out again. Simply healing it off can be much simpler, while I either cripple them, or just stall out their attack moves with Wish and Leftovers. It definitely came through in aiding Zapdos' tanking. If the opponent finds out that Breloom is holding Life Orb then they might have the chance to give bad status, like burn or paralysis. If Breloom is Poisoned, big chances are that it is because Toxic Spikes are on the field, and Healing it off will not be a huge loss because Breloom is Poisoned among entry. Breloom's sweeping will not be aided by the healing because it is frail as it is, so extra power is more practical. Skarmory needs its speed because it can Taunt other walls who are slower most of the time, so they don't get a chance to do what they do (Wish, Thunder Wave, Curse, other random moves).
Toxic or Protect will not help the team really. I'm using Thunder Wave here, and Protect might backfire on me if the other player uses a statup move like Dragon Dance.


Alternatively you could attempt to use rest users to take advantage of Heal Bell. Most of your current team members already have reliable recovery though. If you attempt this I would suggest you remove Breloom, because it benefits from status.

The only status Breloom benefits from is Poison. Otherwise, Heal Bell can save it, proving it a use.

Can I also suggest that you use recover on your starmie over grass knot. Swampert already takes high damage from hydro pump (check this but I think a possible OHKO) as does Rhyperior (a definite OHKO.) The main advantage I can see with Grass Knot is accuracy. I dont really think starmie has any business staying in on Lanturn, who you never see anyway, whom Grass knot hits for a mere 40 base power (it is, in fact, worse than hydro pump.) Recover is needed for healing life orb damage, and can help vs stall teams.

Hydro Pump is only a 2HKO, and it has the chance of missing, and I don't want to use 2 or 3 PP of Hydro Pump just to deal with Swampert. Rhyperior is the exact Pokemon that gave me the situation where I wished I had Grass Knot. It had about 64% of HP, and I did not want to risk Hydro Pump's accuracy, so I went with Ice Beam. It damaged around 55%, while Earthquake finished Starmie off. Luckily, Blissey's Ice Beam finished it off. If I had tried Hydro Pump, and it missed, the other player would have won.

Finally, do those 40hp evs do anything in particular for your azelf (as opposed to 4?) 252 speed would certainly be useful after you have tricked away your scarf. You have to remember when using a scarf that you create opponents with strange speed levels, so there is often little point trying to find a level that is specifically necessary.

I guess I can use 252 Speed EVs to get a speed tie with other users of a Choice Scarf Azelf.

Responses in bold.
 
Back
Top