Team Unorthodox

[Zonix]

Been a couple years since I was last on the competitive scene. Used to play back when chomp was still OU and the metagame wasnt so sporadic. This is a shoddy oriented team I created and its literally been tearing through everything because its simply not something you would expect. This is played on a ladder where Salamence and Latias are considered OU ( Im freaking out that mence is somehow uber now ).​

Team Unorthodox!

In Depth​

Ninja ( Ninjask )

Jolly, Focus Sash
Speed Boost
176hp/252atk/80spe
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor
- Swords Dance​

I know this may seem like a generic lead dating back to the old ADV days, but this thing is an essential core to the sweeping ability of this team. The odd numbered hp so it's able to come in on stealth rocks twice and the jolly/minimum speed ev investment to outrun 90% of the metagame with a choice scarf ( After one speed boost, the entire metagame is outrun ). Protect is so i can get two to three ( Depending on what I feel like doing ) speed boosts in along with a swords dance to pass off. X-Scissor for the generic STAB move running off a respectable 90 attack stat with a large EV investment is nothing to scoff at. Essentially this team automatically wins unless the other team has a lead with the following attributes : ​

- A priority move -
- Sleep/Paralyzing status move -
- A phazing move ( Does not necissarily have to be the lead ) -
- INSANELY lucky freeze hax -​

Ive found those traits to be very uncommon which is why ive literally been tearing through everything. This leads into the pokemon which this pokemon supports.​

The Machine ( Metagross )

Adamant, Leftovers
Clear Body
252atk/40spe/216spd
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt​

The main killing machine of this team. If even one swords dance gets passed to gross ( Along with two speed boosts gaurunteed, three if I simply outplay the person, which is more than half of the time :P ) say goodbye to your entire team. Gaurunteed ( Barring your entire team has protect/detect and inflicts burn status on me SOMEHOW ). Attacks coming off an 810 attack stat that cover literally the entire metagame spell an end for whatever team I happen to play against. After two speed boosts get passed along, it outspeeds a standard ninjask so anything without a choice scarf and at least 280 speed is finished. The synergy between meteor mash and earthquake cover essentially everything, and zen headbutt surprises rotom which is meta's main counter with an OHKO. It also OHKO's gyara with SR support ( Can OHKO without it as well ) which is another big issue for gross' sweep abilities. Nothing can truly counter this if it happens except skarmory with whirlwind presuming I dont have stealth rock support, in which case its a 2HKO before it can phase me out ( Standard spec def skarm ).​

Star Support ( Starmie )

Timid, Leftovers
Natural Cure
252hp/252spe/4spatk
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Thunderbolt
- Surf​

Star of the show. Gives the essential bulk this team needs as well as its support to one of its main flaws, stealth rocks ( Spikes too ). Timid with max speed to outrun pretty much everything. Leftovers for health bulk. Rapid spin to support the rest of my team. Rapid spin is so vital if the initial strategy of ninjask/meta gets thwarted for some reason so I can attempt it later in the game to clean up the rest of my opponents team. Thunderbolt/Surf for a great deal of coverage and a reliable STAB move running off a respectable spatk base stat. Switches into heatran with ease and scares it right off ( Heatran would be an issue for this team otherwise ).​

What On Earth? ( Uxie )

Bold, Leftovers
Levitate
252hp/68def/188spd
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Psychic​

Now I know what you're thinking, but let me explain. This thing has proven to be bulk - zilla. I was playing with only 252hp ev's for the longest time and it was still tanking everything out, it's going to be even better now that ive added the defensive spread. 353hp/344def/343spd is going to be a pain for anybody to take out even if this doesnt have access to a recovery move, and leftovers only adds to the bulk. Knock off to ruin essential opponent strategies. Stealth rock support for obvious reasons and to give meta the gaurunteed OHKO on everything if it comes to that point. Thunderwave to spread potentially the most annoying status ever and psychic for a reliable STAB move if for some reason its appropriate to let this thing stick around. This has some issues with ground types, but that's what the rest of the team is for right? This pokemon is seldom seen which is why it's so threatening in a support role. People just don't know what to expect.​

Clean Up Crew ( Salamence )

Mild, Choice Scarf
Intimidate
252hp/252spatk/4spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Hyrdo Pump
- Outrage​

Standard clean up mence. People expect a ddmence or something along those lines, but they never see a hybrid choice scarf, specs mence, blissy mind trick killing machine. Draco meteor to destroy anything that doesnt resist it and or hasnt made a significant EV investment. Fire blast for steels which resist meteor and a decent chance for putting physical attackers out of comission. Hydro pump for any heatran or fire types who think they can get comfy coming in on the two prior moves and outrage for when i mind trick any blissies to come out after seeing that i might be a specsmence. Great for cleaning up and revenge killing, provides my main mixed pokemon with special care pertaining to the raw special attack power i need.​

This pokemon has been changed, just havent updated this yet ( Trying scarf flygon at the moment )

Timid, Choice Specs
Download
24def/252spatk/232spe
- Dark Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- HP Fighting​

This is my undecided pokemon on my team. Im really looking for another physical attacker, or something which can allow me to wall a few things slightly better, but for now this is what im using. 300 Speed stat with this nature which outruns maxed out base 100s with a neutral nature. Special attacks coming off 552 spatk ( 828 with a download boost ) is tremendous considering the moveset covers everything in the metagame. Nothing can switch into this and feel comfortable about surviving. Ghosts and psychics are annhilated by dark pulse. Bolt beam for superior coverage only resisted by a handfull of select pokemon. HP fighting to top off anything that isnt covered. At a bare minimum, neutral damage on everything. Pretty much OHKO's or 2HKO's the entire metagame. Unfortunatley, if a scarfed fighting move comes my way, this thing is like a glass cannon, im sure you know where this is going. So im really looking to replace this to take care of some obvious counters to parts of this team and prefferably add another physical attacker since I have plenty of special bulk.​

Anyway rate this and tell me what you think. This teams main strategy is to force the ninjask/meta combo to happen no matter what, and even if it doesnt, its going to be terribly difficult to take care of the rest of the team even if ninjask gets wrecked. I really want to replace porygon with another physical tool, but nothing has really fit the bill quite yet.​

Current team statistics :
65 Wins, 14 Losses - 82.3% Win Ratio
Fluctuates between 80 - 85%​

Four losses have been from pure luck hax, but ive counted them anyway. One person managed to get four freezes in a row on me with an ice punch dusknoir lol...​

Please, feel free to leave team opinions and a solution to my porygon z problem. I mean proygon does its job and it does it well, but i feel I could push this team even further if I had a solid physical monster to add on. Id also like to raise an interesting discussion about how meta should be banned to Ubers as well :P

 

[FlameSaber]

Hi Zonix, cool team you have. I actually tried something pretty similar on PokeLabs. Very similar actually, it had Metagross, Salamence, and a baton passer. By your win-loss record, it looks like this team has worked out for you, though I have a few suggestions for you to try out, which could improve your team.

First off, in addition to what you already mentioned, Taunt can be a major problem for Ninjask. That prevents it from using all of its move except for X-Scissor. Also, it's incredibly frail and weak to Stealth Rock.

Also, mid-to-late game, if your team is weakened enough (particularly by stealth rock) something like Jolteon can outspeed and demolish your entire team. Actually, it can even come early game and put a huge dent it something (provided it isn't coming in against a boosted Metagross, or in front of Salamence). This is because you lack a resist to a very common attacking type- electric.

To patch this up, I recommend trying out a Baton Pass Gliscor over Ninjask.

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Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP / 196 SpD / 60 Spe
-Baton Pass
-Swords Dance
-Rock Polish
-Taunt

The big selling point of this is Taunt. Taunt prevents phazing, opposing taunt users who are slower, and other unpleasant status effects. It's also much bulkier than Ninjask, not weak to Stealth Rock, and gives you a much needed electric immunity. Of course, it can't really do much back, having no attacking move. It can be a check to an extent though, if the opposing electric is choiced and locked into an electric type move, it will probably switch out. If not, it will switch moves, and you can Baton Pass to a Pokemon that resists said move.

However, said Gliscor doesn't do that well in the lead spot, as faster taunt users such as Aerodactyl and Azelf plague the lead spot. So, I suggest moving your Uxie to the lead spot with a slightly different set.

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Uxie @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Stealth Rock/U-turn
-U-turn/Memento

With this, you can set up dual screens which will make Gliscor (as well as your sweeper) even harder to take down. Light Screen and Reflect are obvious. Stealth Rock of course to help weaken the opponent's team members, and a choice of U-turn or Memento. U-turn prevents you from being complete Taunt bait, and can allow you to switch in Gliscor or another one of your Pokemon safely. Memento can get your Gliscor in even safer, though it somewhat wastes Uxie's bulk. Do note that if you choose Memento, Uxie will be wrecked by Taunt, so I'd put U-turn over Stealth Rock in such a case.

Personally, I think you're kinda wasting Mence's potential by opting for a Scarf set, not to mention one that doesn't even run max speed (which means it can be revenge killed by opposing base-100 scarfers). You're forcing yourself into one move, and for what? 26 more points in speed (which isn't really doing a whole lot for you anyway)? At least as Specs set would boost his special moves to do astronomically high levels of damage. Not to mention an, unboosted, uninvested Outrage fails to KO a Blissey that runs 252 Def (which really isn't uncommon), so it's free to switch out. I think running a Specs, or DD set would serve you better. The former would just hit things like an out of control train, while the latter would setup then proceed to hit things like a... oh dear, God.

For Metagross, I'd suggest Jolly so as to outrun Jolly Scarf Flygon when you have +2 speed. Also, just pointing this out, Skarmory tend to be physically defensive, and paired with Blissey, so you'll have a much harder time KOing most, and they can just Whirlwind you out. Metagross often has to choose what its walled by. With Zen Headbutt, it's walled by Skarmory and Bronzong (though all the latter can do is set up some stuff and explode on you). With Thunder Punch, it's walled effortlessly by Rotom-A, as well as Zapdos to a lesser extent. With Ice Punch, Gyarados becomes a problem, and Skarmory and Bronzong return to cause some trouble. Only thing that can really take an Explosion (not to mention +2) is a Ghost, or something with protect. I don't recommend Explosion though, you want as much coverage as you can get.

And then there's Porygon-Z. You mention another wanting Physical attacker. Well, you're also lacking a solid revenge killer, so I think I have a good suggestion to put over it.

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Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-Iron Head
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-Trick

It has the same typing as Metagross, but their shared weaknesses are well covered by your teammates. With powerhouses like Metagross and Salamence plowing through opposing teams, you'll often only need to finish off a very weakened Pokemon. Jirachi is perfect for this, with his very respectable 100 base attack and speed, not to mention his bulk. A choice scarf to of course boost his speed, allowing it to be faster than most of the non-scarfed OU metagame (and it still outspeeds many who are equipped with a scarf; anything lower than base 100 is beaten). Iron Head for STAB and flinch hax when in desperation, Fire Punch is for Steels in particular, as they resist Iron Head and Ice Punch, but it still has good coverage otherwise. Ice punch for Grounds, Dragons, and Flying types and more coverage in general. Thunder Punch is mostly for Gyarados, as Jirachi probably isn't taking down bulky waters with good health, but Gyarados is already well covered. Trick cripples walls like Blissey and Skarmory in particular, who would be a problem for your Metagross.

TL;DR:
-Baton Pass Gliscor over Ninjask
-Uxie to the lead spot with Dual Screen set
-Specs or DD mence over current set
-Jolly over Adamant on Metagross
-Choice Scarf Jirachi over Porygon-Z

Finally, about Metagross going to Ubers- he can be fairly easily walled or revenge killed by common threats, so I don't think there's too much of a case. Sure, with the proper support he can wreck a team, but that can be said of almost any sweeper. :P

Well, that's all I've got. Hope I helped, and good luck with the team!

 

[Zonix]

I see what you're saying about ninjask, taunt can definetly ruin its synergy with metagross, but 90% of the time I can outstall the original taunt coming off a lead pokemon using protect which attempt to ruin me ( Presuming the usual azelf/aero culprits ). Azelf type starters ( Especially azelf ) REALLY wouldnt want to be sticking around if it taunted me and I got a swords dance in, OHKO/2HKO if it has a focus sash which allows me 3 turns to waste away the taunt with my focus sash factored in as well. If the lead happens to be aero, I simply switch out to uxie which proceeds to twave/SR/knock off the aero to make it extremely vunerable, usually after all that, uxie still comes out with a decent chunk of hp so I can bring it back later in the game to spronge a hit or two and pass some more status around. It can also potentially put up some more rocks if the previous ones get blown away. The point being, my ninjask has tremendous survivability compared to most suicide ninjasks as it has several attempts to pass off boosts. If i get an azelf type taunter which is brave enough to stick around and take a STAB x-sci, im almost gaurunteed to get my baton pass off anyway ( Barring if they have a priority move pokemon in backup, in which case id merely switch out ninjask for my uxie and attempt to set up solid OHKO's with my meta later on in the game ). Starmie also makes sure this happens because of its rapid spin support, I have zero issues with stealth rocks due to its bulkiness and ability to scare things off.

If i opted for gliscor, id lose the ability to boost two stats per turn which is what my team relies on, a very fast unstoppable sweep which can re-occur several times in the game which is how the team is set up. Mathematically based on turns, gliscor stands much less of a chance of being reliable due to almost every team having an ice related move. I probably wont be able to bring in gliscor as many times as ninjask due to its dysmal speed in comparison. It helps patch up the blatent resistance to electric im missing, but I simply dont feel its slow paced setup is viable for this team. Like I stated earlier, this team relies on being fast and ruthless as well as hit n' running whenever appropriate. So I think ill stick with ninjask for the time being, but ill attempt experimenting with gliscor as I see it can also be semi - viable ( If only it had more speed :( )

There's also an issue with moving uxie to the lead spot, if it gets taunted, it's going to be useless and essentially allow for a free setup of SR as I take meaningless damage switching into starmie to get rid of them at some point. The point of my uxie is annoyance and to assure that everything ( Barring skarmory ) is an OHKO ( Skarm being the 2HKO with my own SR support out at that time already ). This is presuming I dont get the sweep meta right off the bat in which case the game would already be over ( Presuming they dont have a skarm around ). I dont think its very fun for the other team having all of its items knocked off and being para'ed all the time slowing them down to be swept with ease. The only real issue is the recovery move it lacks to continue its annoyance past 2 or 3 pokemon and its clear issue against darks ( In which case I have it set up Twave/SR and switch out to Porygon Z to threaten a switch. Either the opponent risks staying in and being OHKO'ed or switches out to take SR damage as well as a potentially boosted HP ). With the way I have things setup with Ninjask/Uxie/Meta/Starmie, they all perform a role to make sure a very high chance of a Lol-Sweep occurs.

Mence though I will look at. The reason I run such an odd set is because people simply dont expect it. Most people run neutral spe scarf sets in exchange for more power with the expectation that they wont be outrun. Although I do believe the HP evs are somewhat missplaced and could be tampered with. With SR support outrage is a 2HKO on a standard 252hp/252def bold bliss, but mence could easily be outstalled by softboiled so it IS an issue. I suppose I could contemplate running different sets on this, but I want it to remain my hit and run pokemon regardless as mence is very frail. Ill expirement with specsmence and get back to you on that one.

I was also contemplating jirachi which would be a very good call, but while writing this I thought of something which is fairly uncommon and could potentially solve many problems at once. Swampert. It would plug up my electric weakness and it would serve as a decent physical force with plenty of bulk which is exactly what im looking for. I have nothing to fear from HP grass considering that two pokemon on my team 4x resist it I believe and it is VERY uncommon to see. Solid base 110 atk and a 100/90/90 hp/def/spd spread make this a physical bulk to be reckoned with. Im not quite sure what set id use for it though, possibly rest talk to patch up hypnosis which would ruin my initial strategy.

Pokemon im now considering for the last slot :
- Swampert
- Jirachi
- Electivire

I dunno id need some advice on that one.

Finally, regarding metagross' spread and nature. I do believe that more can be invested into speed to outrun choice scarf base 100 spe pokemon. I dont see many pokemon running a +speed nature with base 100 just to use a choice scarf. More often than not, a neutral nature is run to push more into its attacking stat since most of the time its a "hit n' run" scenario with pokemon like those. I suppose the least I could do is remove a tiny bit of the attacking power and abit of the bulk to pour it into speed so it can outrun neutral max speed base 100's. Ill experiment with this as well.

Many thanks for your opinions, it got me thinking about my mence and some options to replace porygon-z. Also, ill be experimenting with the evs of my meta abit.

If anyone has additional comments or suggestions after managing to read all this, feel free to fire away :P

 

[FlameSaber]

Alright, I understand how your reasons for Ninjask. I played my team a bit differently; instead of repeatedly passing boosts, I just went through one time each with Metagross and Salamence, then there was just a little bit of cleaning up left, if all went well. As far as taunt though, I'd be more worried about mid-game taunters, Gyarados especially, since it gives you -1 attack. As far as the survivability issue, that's what the dual screens are for, and you can run Yache Berry. You could also run max speed, since base 95 is actually pretty decent. Really, what suits you best is for you to figure out, as I can only suggest possibilities. xD

It's not exactly free Stealth Rock, as U-turn will break a sash, leaving it open to be KO'd (or to at least put a huge dent in something with Mence for example), so you could be up 6-5 at the cost of SR, which you can spin away anyway. But I do find it interesting the way you put your Uxie to use, it's got some great utility options. Which actually reminded me, Uxie also has access to Yawn, which you could use to cause switches and rack up SR damage, or put something to sleep which you can set up on.

Surprise factor is great, but you shouldn't limit yourself to surprise your opponent. :P Mence has plenty of attacking options anyway, you rarely can be sure what exactly it's running until it attacks. And sometimes even then, you'll be in for a big surprise. If you want hit-and-run Specs Mence is a perfectly usable option. The HP EVs aren't actually misplaced, so much as it's not really the set to run HP EVs on. A bulky setup mence would be wise to run HP EVs, but not something like a Scarf Mence.

For your sixth slot... I might be biased against Swampert, but I haven't found it to that effective. As a tank, it lacks reliable recovery, so strong, repeated hits will put it in its grave. Offensively, it's 'eh' at best, unless you try and run the Choice Band set. It's also pretty slow, which kinda deviates from the style of play of this team. Jirachi has good 100/100/100 defensive stats, as well as matching offensive stats. The Choice Scarf set would provide you with an instant fast speed without the need to set up, and acts as a good revenge killer, and fits your hit and run. However, it doesn't have an electric resist. Electivire is... well, even after a speed boost from Motor Drive, it isn't quite fast enough to sweep efficiently, and its revenge killed my several things, in particular, the ever common Scarf Flygon. I know someone who pulled off a Scarf Electivire, which can net some surprise kills, but it takes a little prediction, and you're forced to lock yourself into one move, which means Electivire's versatility is not taken advantage of, and you lose your Motor Drive boost often, because you're forced to switch out. The electric immunity is nice, though.

Now that I think about it though, an option that could fit is a Scarf Flygon. Same speed and attack stats as Jirachi, but it has a Dragon/Ground typing that makes it immune to electric attacks. Flygon is widely regarded as the best revenge killer in the current 4th Gen Metagame. It's bulk is okay at 80/80/80, but its typing really helps it out. I think this could patch things up for your team.

To outspeed positive nature, max speed, base 100 pokemon with a Choice Scarf, you need a positive nature yourself, 216 EVs in speed (I believe), and a +2 boost. So basically, you just change your nature, and after +2 speed, you should be set.

I'm glad to be of help. :)

 

[Zonix]

I experimented with swampert, jirachi and elect. Swampert definetly edged out over jirachi and elect was severely lacking in my opinion. I like the prospect of a scarfed flygon though, im definetly going to give it a whirl at some point and compare it with its reliability over swampert. Its strong, fast, and fits the hit and run physical attacker style that my team needs. I find the bulk I added with swampert was not very useful anyway since uxie pretty much walls everything anyway. Definetly going to give it a try.

As for the ninjask scenario, i really dont want to have to waste my uxie's utility abilities just so it can set up some screens for a gliscor which i have to overbulk just to pass a swords dance. Im personally just going to stick with ninjask as ive never had an issue with it the way the team is currently set up.

Although i ran some calcs of a scarfed jolly flygon earthquake hitting my metagross and clearly see 65.4% - 78.7% ( After my free lefties recovery ) is not completely what i want to happen. All the flygons ive ran into were adamant though, so i was able to outspeed them anyway. Though this could present a POTENTIAL problem if i ever ran into it even though practically nothing that my opponent could send out afterwards could kill off the rest of my meta's health as it wouldnt get the chance. I will take into consideration the jolly nature on meta though to ensure I dont have to take the risk in any case. I would need 220 speed to outspeed positive natured maxed out speed base 100's after a +2 boost ( Might only need 119, but max jolly scarf flygon is at 492 speed and meta with 219 speed and +2 boost is at 492.75 and im not sure it rounds up to 493 ). Ill see how it goes though.

Also, still pondering what im going to do with mence. For some reason the set I have is working wonders, but ill try other sets here and there when i experiment with other pokes.

tl;dr

- Choice scarf flygon looks like a serious option over all the other ones
- Uxie's role is unique and shouldnt be changed since its in perfect synergy with starmie/meta/ninjask
- Considering a jolly change for meta, but need verification calcs from up there ^
- Mence will be fooled around with here and there

Oh and updated the win tallies, the team is surging right now ^_^