Team Venenum Coma (Proof that semi stall does exist)

[george182]

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Introduction:

Hi, this was a team I started making a while ago, but the original version had huge mix mence problems and I chose to scrap it. Now that mence is uber, I re-vamped the team and it has been a successful clan war team for me. It started off just testing around and messing with different combo's of pokemon, but once I started making the proper team it soon became a semi stall team.

I once read a post where someone did a summary of semi stall, they said something like:

"it was a team that utilises things like entry hazards and recovery simular to full stall. However it normally differs from full stall by having things like a scarfed revenge killer and a sweeper."

After looking at my team, I think it fits that definition which is where the team name comes from. The name is meant Latin for poisen stall, as the team is based around wearing Jirachi counter's down with toxic spikes, and then bringing in Jirachi for a quick sweep. EDIT: However, when I came up with the name I just rushed it through an online translator and it could mean something more like venomous (market) stall lol, but as no one learns Latin these days, you can't prove me wrong XD

I wanted to make a team where every member had a helpful typing and added something to the team, i.e. setting up entry Hazards, Taunt, Phazing, Wish, Absorbing status, Leading, Revenge killing and sweeping. Bellow is a rough summary of how the team came together and if this isn't semi stall, then I don't know what is. Enjoy XD

Team Building

So I started off not planning to make a semi stall team, but just testing random combinations, and I found Vaporeon + Calm mind Jirachi worked really well, as Vaporeon could heal up Jirachi's substitutes.

Most of Jirachi's counter's are easily beaten by toxic spikes, while Vaporeon can use them to help her stall. After testing out the various possibilities I decided that Roserade was the best pokemon for the job.

Now a Rotom form would be needed to block rapid spin, I chose rotom-W as he somewhat scares tyranitar and heatran.

I wanted a stealth rock user for obvious reason's, so I decided to look at other semi stall teams, to see what they use. I ended up using the scarf Heatran set off Vashta's Rose Tyler team.

To finish off the team, I chose Gliscor, originally because he was my stealth rock user, but after I put SR on heatran so I could then use the full stall breaker set, as it's stalling tactics work really well with my team.

Team Venenum Coma

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Roserade (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 112 HP / 232 Spd / 164 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Toxic Spikes
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]


Roserade has a good match up against many leads, 2hkoing the faster ones and sleeping the slower ones, while also getting up my toxic spikes. I generally prefer to set up 1 layer of toxic spikes first, and then sleep powder as a last hurrah, because if I sleep powder first and miss then I will probably end up dead for nothing. I find 1 layer is all I really need to wear down Jirachi counter's, and it is crippling enough to most teams. I chose hp fire as my coverage move because hp ground is pointless, it doesn't even OHKO non shucca heatran, while I can just sleep a tran. Hp ice is just for dragonite, as leafstorm handles gliscor and flygon, so I chose hp fire to handle scizor, skarmory, forretress etc.

The ev's may seem odd, but roserade often has to switch back into stealth rocks. So I wanted a few more hp ev's so I could take a hit or too, so I saved all the ev's I could. Firstly, as I have hp fire, I have to drop a speed IV, so I decided to just drop my speed to 300, still beating 295 suicune, 298 rotom and 299 base 100's. I then lowered my special attack, so that I can still 2hko skarmory's. The new ev's allow me to live a starmie life orbed ice beam after stealth rocks doing (74% - 87.9%). It also makes a Blissey flamethrower not 2hko after stealth rocks (36% - 42.9%).

Here is how I handle some of the common leads:

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Azelf: Sleep powder then spikes, if they taunt, then I attack.

Aerodactyl: 2hko with leaf storm + hidden power.

Swampert: Toxic spikes, then act according to their move

Metagross: I go to rotom-w and attempt to burn it (fearing the lum berry)

Jirachi: I switch to heatran and stealth rock up

Infernape: Switch to vaporeon

Machamp: Leaf storm, then go to Rotom on the bullet punch to finish it off

Ninjask: Toxic spikes 1nce, then go to Vaporeon and Roar

Roserade: Go to Rotom to take the sleep, then back to roserade and Ko it, there is no point in toxic spiking till their roserade is dead

Tyranitar:Switch to Gliscor and then toxic predicting a switch

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Heatran (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

Well I stole the idea of a scarf heatran with stealth rocks off Vashta, so credit to him for this. Heatran is my revenge killer, and his 3 attacking moves can OHKO pretty much every sweeper, while his great typing let's him switch in really easily. Stealth rock is actually really sneaky on this set, as heatran forces loads of switches, so I can often get my SR up really easily. The sneaky part, is that when you see stealth rock on a heatran you automatically think, "aah it's a shuca heatran". This leaves me to get many surprise revenge kills as people don't expect the speed.

Heatran lures in Jirachi counter's pokemon like swampert/tyranitar, so they can be worn down by toxic spikes. It also lures in bulky waters for Jirachi to set up on. I'm tempted to run a hasty nature, because I often switch into rotom forms.

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Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 12 Spd / 24 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Surf
- Roar

Vaporeon unintentionally completes my fire/water/grass combo. She is the core to my team and keeps the team healthy with wish. Wish + Protect also help with toxic spike stalling, and keeping vaporeon healthy. Surf is a decent stab move, not ressited by many types. Roar is here because I found I needed a phazor, and it has proven to be really useful, allowing me to keep problematic threats till the end, so that I can explode on them, 1 vs 1 calm minders with Jirachi, or taunt + toxic them with gliscor.

The ev's are fairly simple, max hp to take hit's from both sides better and it's a leftovers number. 12 speed outspeeds scizor, so when it get's bellow 40% I can KO it with a surf. 24 sp.def prevent gengar from 2hkoing with shadow ball, allowing me counter the sub set, and then switch to heatran to scare it off (or Ko it, if he has fallen for the stealth rock trick). Then the rest into defence for more physical bulk.

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Gliscor (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Roost

Your standard taunt toxic gliscor set, it's a pain for stall teams, takes out those last man stat boosters (snorlax) and it also allows me to poisen flying types, as well as a back up incase I don't get toxic spikes up. If you don't know how the set works, you get your gliscor counter poisened and then taunt them to prevent rest/heal bell. You then stall them with Earthquake and roost, or go to a counter and then stall the taunted and poisened pokemon.

You may have noticed the max hp, max defence ev's. The reason for this is I see no need for the speed ev's. Speed was primarly for Sword dance jolly ice punch lucario, desgined to catch mence and gliscor. Well mence is uber, and every1 uses jolly gliscor, so who in the right mind would use ice punch on an SD Lucario. If they use an aglity set, I will actually live their ice punch (72.3% - 85.9%). I used to have enough speed to beat 245 speed Brelloom/celebi, however I found being slower is better as I can roost up after they use the grass move, so that it isn't super effective.

Gliscor is a solid physical wall, and works really well with Vaporeon as together they check many OU threats, here are some damage calcs from some top OU physical attackers to show the bulk of max hp, the natures are just the standard natures for them (the numbers in the the brackets show you what it would do to the a standard smogon Gliscor):

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Flygon: Jolly, Choice band Outrage = 42.7% - 50.3% (Vs normal gliscor = 57.1% - 67.2%)

Dragonite: Jolly, Dragon dance, life orb Dragonite Outrage = 67.8% - 79.9% (Vs normal gliscor = 91% - 107.1%)

Tyranitar: Adamant, Choice band Crunch = 38.1% - 45.2% (Vs normal gliscor = 51.1% - 60.5%)

Scizor: Adamant, Choice band Bullet punch = 28.2% - 33.3% (Vs normal gliscor = 38.1% - 44.9%)

Gyrados: Adamant, Choice band waterfall = 72.9% - 86.4% (Vs normal gliscor = 97.2% - 115.3%)

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Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

Good old rotom-w, my favourite rotom form as he makes tyranitar/heatran think twice before switching in, due to the fear of hydro pump. Rotom is my throw around pokemon, and switches into to status and random attacks, due to Rotom's great typing and lack of weakneses. I chose thunderbolt as paralysis doesn't help my team that much and with toxic spikes/Wow, it is generally useless. So I went for power.

The ev's I came up with myself, they just co-coincidently are the same as smogon's lol. I wanted to not be 2hkoed after SR + leftovers by a brelloom seed bomb, while having loads of sp.def to counter starmie/tentacruel. In the end I have a respectable tank that makes up for his lower defence with WoW.

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Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Spd / 76 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt

Now the sweeper, it's been my favourite special sweeper ever since I first used the set, and in my opinion the second best in the game (lucario is the best imo). However unlike lucario, teams are generally less prepared for Jirachi .

The idea of the set is to Calm mind up as much as possible, while setting up Substitute to prevent revenge kills, trick and status etc. Many people use the Bold wish Jirachi set, however after testing it, I decided it sucked. It lacks the much needed speed, it doesn't always beat CM cune in an 1 vs1 and it's crit fodder. Lets say you alternate up to +6 by wish + calm mind, that is 12 turns and there is a 1/16 chance of getting a crit. You can do the math, but it's pretty obvious it will regularly fail.

I'm also suprised at how few people use Substitute, for one blocking thunderwave/wow is vital, as they make it really hard for raichi to set up. It also defendes Jirachi against critical hits. But most importantly it stops revenge killers like flygon and flare blits infernape from revenge killing Jirachi. One problem with the sub set, is that you keep lowering your hp everytime you sub up, but that is why I have wish support to heal up Jirachi's subs, allowing me to scout the counter and wear it down e.g. ground types, heatran and tyranitar etc.

I have 180 speed gives me 309 speed to beat standard jolly gliscor's and other people sitting at that 308 speed. Max hp for the 101 subsitutes and then 76 special attack helps sweeping with little boosts, and helps me beat other calm minders like Suicune.

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This is the end of my RMT, thank you for reading and please leave a comment:​

 

[IronBullet]

Hey,

Very solid team. I really think it's worth trying out the Speed EVs on Gliscor, it's very important to outspeed and Taunt Pokemon such as Rotom who otherwise could set up a Substitute, or cripple you with a burn. It's also very important to get the jump on Heatran, as Life Orb versions can be a real headache for your team to face, as you're forces to lock Heatran into Earth Power. If you really want some bulk, try out 40 Defense EVs with an Impish nature. This allows you to outspeed Adamant Lucario, while still maintaining good speed.

DDnite can be a problem, especially if it's the last Poke. So, trying out Ice Beam on Vaporeon could work pretty well. You do lose a valuable phazer, but the threat of Dragonite is a pretty big threat that can't be ignored.

Otherwise, great team, and gl!

 

[WadihStats]

Well i really can't aport much ... but ... jirachi with "flash canon" can cover much better than psichic.
And in roserade i used to use (XD) hp fire, but heatran is most common to counter the roserade, i put HP Ground and is much better in the metagame know.

And again, congrtulations , nice team!

 

[Conan Edogawa415]

This is a really solid team, let me start by saying that. The only thing I really saw that I would adjust is the jirachi at the end. I feel Wish/CM rachi is much more effective then sub rachi now. Also, the wish passing is always nice, even if you do have vaporeon to do that.

One more small thing I actually noticed going through the team again, you may want to switch gliscor to jolly to outspeed more threats, jolly gliscor is better all around then impish gliscor.

Those are just a couple small things, like I said though, this is a very nice team, well done

 

[george182]

Thanks for the rates

@ Thanks for the rate. I'm not too worried about outspeeding heatran, as I already have 2 decent heatran counters (vaporeon and my scarf tran). Dragonite is a bit of a pain, I generally have to go 1-1 to take out, with either Gliscor, Vaporeon to force it into outrage and then revenge kill with Jirachi. Heatran outspeeds adamant ones and can explode in their face. If I have time I might add a threat list. But making gliscor jolly, means he won't be taking the Outrage anymore. He was orrignaly the jolly set on smogon, but when I saw they now suggest max speed, I decided it was turning into a speed fest and I decided to switch to bulky gliscor, who surprises many people with his bulk. Ice beam is a neat idea on vaporeon, I chose roar, because alot of people like to set up on vaporeon, mainly kingdra and dragonite, so I'll see if ice beam prevents this. I do still have taunt on gliscor for those ninjask.

@ Wadih, thanks for the rate. Flash cannon is mainly for Latias, celebi and tyranitar. Latias is uber, and celebi/tyranitar are worn down by toxic spikes. Also celebi canno't break my subs if im at +1, even with earthpower. While Physchic has more power and hit's magnezone, OHKO's infernape, swampert and rotom much harder. Magnezone and infernape are the most threatning to sub raichi imo, so I chose physchic. I can just sleep heatran's so I decided not to use HP ground, I also found HP ground doesn't even OHKO non shucca tran, so I don't see the point in useing it.

@ Conan thanks for the rate. I orriginally had the bold wish raichi on smogon, but it is crit fodder. The idea of alternating between Wish + Calm mind, means you have to spend 12 turns setting up with a 1/16 chance of being critted, with no substute to block crits, and crits go through your calm mind boosts, meaning you can be OHKOed and have wasted 12 turns for nothing. It just doesn't work. I also found the speed loss painful, being beaten by mamoswine heatran, lucario, 216 gliscor etc. is just painful. While without out the defence ev's wish doesn't work as you take too much damage from physical hits. To add to that wil-o-wisp and t-wave ruin a Jirachi sweep, w-o-w bassically means you can only set up on a kakuna, and a timely parahax is the loss of Jirachi. Also Jirachi doesn't have a sub to protect her from revenge killers, who can either OHKO raichi or trick it. It's just when you are stat boosting to the extents that Jirachi does, it's not worth taking these risks that ruin your sweep.

^ wow long bit of text, as for Jolly gliscor, I don't see the point tbh. Maybe it's better all around, but I don't need the speed, as I have Jirachi and heatran at or above that speed anyway. It also makes me faster than celebi/brelloom so I can't roost off there grass moves.


Well thanks for the rates. It seems Jolly gliscor is wanted over impish, but I don't need to beat Heatran, and Gliscor outspeeds Bulky rotom anyway, both are special attackers so gliscor won't be switching into them any time soon. Lucario is going to extreme speed me anyway, and Gyarados/dragonite have dragon dance, while I actually want to be slower than fighters and grass types so I can roost after they attack. So I really don't see the need for speed, especially as I loose my primary DD dragonite counter.

 

[Eggbert]

Yea, this team is very solid and there is not much really to say that hasn't been said. However, I think you could gain a bit more from Rotom by running a sub charge or pain split set. Both take good advantage of t-spikes, and the sub charge set can either 2HKO ttar with hp fighting or burn it depending on the last move slot. Either way, it won't be able to stop jirachi after forcing rotom out. Breloom still doesn't stand much of a chance against psychic from jirachi or gliscor's taunts.

 

[george182]

@ eggbert, thanks for the rate. Yea I used to have a sub split rotom, with w-o-w, but I realised that rest talk was better as he still outstall blissey, because rest lasts for (16 x 3) 48 turns. I then tried to make it offensive with a life orb, and realised it was a worse gengar. I then realised that sub-split gengar is the worst spin blocker, as he can't beat Forretress, Starmie or Tentacruel. He ever looses to UU spinners like Blastoise, Hitmontop (forsight) and Donphan. This is because the only spinner gengar OHKO's is starmie, which is faster than him. I then changed the Rotom ev's, so he had enough bulk to take a few payback's from Forretress, but also enough special defence to switch into a starmie surf at low health. In summary the reason why my spin blocker is not offensive like you see on other teams, is because he looses his orrignal and main purpose, which is to spin block. I also like how Rotom fits in with the stallish nature of the team, and is a nice special sponge. Taking hit's that my Vap-Glis combo can't.

@ Star99, thanks for the rate, I think I'm just stubborn about gliscor. But people don't suggest that cresselia uses max speed, to beat CB tyranitar, or that hippowdon runs max speed to beat Metagross before they explode. Even defence zapdos, who are faster than gliscor don't run max speed, so why should gliscor?

 

[Philip7086]

Rating on request.

Overall, I think this is a pretty solid team already, but I have a few suggestions which I think will greatly help improve your team. As you might have noticed, you're very weak to fast special attackers like Substitute Life Orb Gengar, who can easily set up on Gliscor or Heatran locked on a bad move, or Starmie who can come in and deal hefty damage to your entire team. I'm not quite sure what you're using Scarf Heatran for to be honest, and I feel like using Scarf Tyranitar in its place would serve your team a lot better. Tyranitar would ensure that fast special threats like Gengar and Starmie don't run through your team. It would also provide you with a good switch-in for Azelf leads, since you currently lose to them. Finally, Tyranitar would provide your Gliscor sandstream support, which we all know turns Gliscor into one of the most annoying Pokemon of all time. With that change, though, you lose your Stealth Rock Pokemon, so I would also recommend switching Jirachi with Bronzong. Bronzong is actually very useful in today's metagame and can find many opportunities to set up Stealth Rock. Not only that, but Bronzong would provide you with a good Dragonite counter, if you use HP Ice, which you currently desperately need. I would run the moveset: Stealth Rock, Earthquake, HP Ice, Gyro Ball / Payback. I know these changes practically completely change the way your team works, but I think you would be more successful with them. I also would like to recommend Jolly 252 Spe on Gliscor, but you seem pretty adamant about keeping it the way it is, so it's up to you. Good luck with the team.