Team WinMea3DSXL

[Sabafish]

Hello, Smogon forums. It's been quite some time since I've posted an RMT. My first and most recent RMT was back in the Platinum days, so early 2009 I guess?

Anyway, I've been mostly keeping up to date with the Smogon-based OU metagame for the most part and getting my ass handed to me on Showdown constantly. But, recently the local card shop that I frequent has been holding Pokemon video game tournaments and using the VGC rules. On the Sunday of BW2's release, they will be holding a tournament. The grand prize: a 3DS XL and both versions of BW2.

With very limited knowledge in the VGC metagame, and Double Battles in general, I did a bit of digging around the site (especially in one of the issues of the Smog that went and gave a rundown of some VGC cores) to see what works and I have came up with this.

The Offensive Core:
After reading that article in the Smog I was elated to see that two of my favorite Pokemon, Rotom and Metagross, could make an effective offensive core. With that in mind, I went ahead and made these two first and foremost.

Rotom-W @ Electric Gem
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 248 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Protect

Rotom-W's typing changing has really been a blessing in Gen V. Having access to STAB Hydro Pump, especially in the rain, is just too good. Even more when I don't even need to set the rain up myself.

EVs give me maximum HP, near-Max SAtk just because he hits hard enough as it is (and even more with that Electric Gem) and a bit in both defenses just to pad him out a bit more. The moves should be standard issue for a Rotom-W with the only exception being maybe HP [Fire] over W-o-W.

Rotom is one of the first Pokemon I go to when I see the Rains a-comin'. He's also great for when I really just need to punch through some dudes who have been softened up by my Set-Up crew. And as the article mentioned, he covers Metagross' ass fairly well being able to make Fire types think twice about coming and ruining Gross' day. Being immune to the every present AOE move that is Earthquake also helps.

Metagross @ Steel Gem
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
- Protect

Metagross is the Physical powerhouse in this core as Rotom-W handles the special side of things. Being able to resist Rotom's only Weakness is a fine help where Rotom essentially covers all of Metagross' Weaknesses.

I honestly can't remember too much about the EVs since it's actually been quite some time since I've put this team together. Max'd Atk first, chucked some at HP for some added bulk and the rest in Spd so I'm not at the bare minimum speed. It also helps that one of my starters packs Tailwind to help both Gross and Rotom to outpace some dudes with that nifty +2 in Spd.

Moves should be fairly standard. Meteor Mash to mash dudes and his strongest STAB. Zen Headbutt for things like Ludicolo and other Waters that aren't Slowbro/king, Empoleon, or Starmie (who Rotom-W can fend off well enough). STAB priority is always nice to have and helps pick off any stragglers.

Occa Berry is a nice aid against Fire type attacks that aren't Overheat off of a Fire Gem Chandelure. Changed it to Steel Gem which really helps me out in a pinch. Especially when I boost something like Meteor Mash with Cresselia's Helping Hand.

The Starters:
With Doubles seemingly very reliant on the early setup, I decided to take a weather and pair it with another Pokemon to give general support to the team. Both Abomasnow and Suicune really help give Metagross and Rotom the support they need by eliminating common weathers and by boosting their rather mediocre speeds.

Abomasnow (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Ice Shard
- Protect

In the BW2 era, I've really taken a liking to Abomasnow as my anti-meta weather maker. In singles, I usually run a more offensive set with Expert Belt and things like EQ and Woodhammer for Politoed and TTar and HP [Fire] for Scizors who think they're all bad by U-turning. In VGC though, I've taken a "safer" approach, I suppose.

The moves should be standard enough. Protect is an invaluable move in Doubles, 100 acc Blizzards are too good to pass up, Giga Drain hits things like Politoed and Tyranitar for SE damage, and Ice Shard hits things that are either weak to it or just need a little bit of a push to be KO'd by hail damage.

Focus Sash keeps him alive long enough to go out swinging by spamming Blizzards until someone dies. Max HP for max HP, max SAtk to hit hard enough with Blizzard and Giga Drain, 4 Def just to add a touch of defense though I suppose I could switch it to Atk to give his Ice Shards a smidge more power. Quiet nature for maximum slow to make sure I get the Weather off on turn 1. The only thing that out-slows me is Hippowdon who will probably take a fair amount of damage from Abomasnow and his partner in crime, Suicune.

Suicune @ Wacan Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Tailwind
- Hydro Pump
- Blizzard
- Calm Mind

Take a bulky Water and give it a supporting role. That's pretty much what Suicune is doing here. I was looking at other Tailwind users like Tornadus or Thundurus but both are weak to Rock Slide and don't do a lot for Abomasnow. Suicune is neutral to Rock Slide and covers Abomasnow's big weakness: Fire.

Tailwind is an invaluable move for this team since it lets me go from tanky hitters to 2FastUFurious. Especially if I did a bit of "side decking" during the team preview. Hydro Pump is a very strong move in Doubles since Surf's power takes a dip here (iirc) since it's an AOE move. With Abomasnow's Snow Warning, I figured I'd take the opportunity to slap Blizzard on the Cune and enjoy some mindless double Blizzard spam while I'm at it.

The EVs and nature give me quite a bit of bulk while still letting me hit decently enough.

Wacan Berry has saved my ass more than once. I'm really digging these SE-damage reducing berries here in VGC.

I changed Protect to Calm Mind just to add a little more offensive power when I need it since most Pokemon will be hard-pressed to OHKO me (bar a Grass Gem boosted Leaf Storm lol)

The Side-Deck:
These here are the alternates to my team should I find myself needing a different focus. They are also two Pokemon that I've found to be fairly popular whenever I see "Goodstuff" RMTs floating around. Cresselia and Garchomp are just two dudes that I love to have for those just-in-case moments.

Cresselia (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Helping Hand
- Icy Wind

Should I feel that I need a change in pace from my usual "gotta go fast" strategy, I switch it up to Cresselia for some Trick Room shenanigans. Trick Room, like Tailwind, still benefits Rotom-W and Metagross by helping them still get that speed boost they like.

Cressy is just a really great support-mon and pretty helpful in the late game as well, by mopping up any weakened Pokemon with her STAB Psychics and by boosting any AOE moves with Helping Hand. Light Screen can be used early on to help soften the blows from certain Pokemon and add to the survival of our MetaTom core.

Nature and EVs are designed for surviving many a hit while being able to continually support whatever Pokemon may be out there. Sitrus Berry has been a very useful item at Lvl.50 by giving me a very healthy HP recovery.

Icy Wind has probably been the most helpful change on this team. The speed drop helps me deal with faster dudes like Latios and the other Dragons so much with my own Dragon.

Garchomp (F) @ Yache Berry
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Protect

Part two of my side deck, Garchomp is just a straight up beast. If I see some rather fast Dragons roaming around on my opponent's team, I'll usually stick him in as my late-game clean up crew, picking off any leftover KO's with Dragon Claw and Earthquake. Substitute is there on the chance that I can abuse my opponent's Sandstorm with Sand Veil. Protect is for some obvious scouting.

We should all know how much of a beast Garchomp is by now just going off of his Singles history and it feels no different here in Doubles. Garchomp is still a great heavy hitting, fast, and relatively bulky attacker. Paired with Tailwind and a Helping Hand boost, he's just too scary of a finisher.

This team has done fairly well at the tournaments I have attended going 2-1 in my first, 1-2 in my second, and 4-0 in my latest tournament attendance. I'm fairly happy with this team as it is but I know peer review is a very effective form of criticism and can really help me iron out any wrinkles I have in the team—especially since I am still fairly inexperienced as far as VGC goes, I'm hoping I can get some feedback for this team and get it ready to get me that grand prize!

Please post any suggestions for the team or if you'd like me to go more in depth in my choices of Pokemon, moves, etc. I'll try my best to do so but as far as answering any questions about how I will respond to specific threats, I can only hazard a guess at Theorymon since as I mentioned before, I'm not the most experienced player as far as this metagame goes.

And if you'd like me to pretty up the RMT a bit, I would appreciate a link to the newer sprites so I can put them in here and there. I've been out of the loop for quite some time I so I'm not sure which ginormous database to take the sprites from.

Cheers!

 

[TheMantyke]

Hi there. I've got to say that your team has pretty solid synergy (albiet fairly standard) considering this is your first time getting yourself into VGC. My main concern isn't within any team member in particular, but the way you're elaborating how you plan to use each team member. You should think of partners of Pokemon as fulfilling general roles, but make certain you don't dedicate your Pokemon to that position. It's important for you to keep in mind that you won't always have your cores of Pokemon working together and that your teammates need to work well with each other or form "minicores" with one another. Fortunately, you've picked two cores in Cresselia + Garchomp and Metagross + Rotom that can mix and match members, but for future teams, be sure to keep this is mind!

Beyond that though, you really do have a solid team here. I can't see anything that really needs replacing so here are a few optional tweeks for what you have at the moment.

• Consider Calm Mind > Protect on Suicune. Strange change right? It's change that goes against all the major rules of doubles that Protect should be on nearly every Pokemon and that set up moves are bad, but Suicune is one of those Pokemon that isn't going down easily even from double targetting. Calm Mind gives Suicune a much welcomed offensive boost and makes you that much bulkier on the special side of things. If you do make this change, you should also consider moving some of Suicune's special attack EVs into defense and maybe even switch the nature to Bold. Again, this is hardly a required change since Protect is the swiss army knife of doubles, but it's something to try.
• Consider Icy Wind > Light Screen on Cresselia. Between Rotom, Abomansow, and to some extent Suicune, you're well prepared for taking hits from rain teams, a key reason to bring Light Screen. If you find yourself using it very little, Icy Wind gives Cresselia some speed control and allows your team to rely on Suicune's Tailwind a bit less.
• Finally, you might want to try Steel Gem > Occa Berry on your Metagross. Personally, whenever I use Metagross, I find the Occa Berry to be really inconsistent, being useful against some teams and useless against others. A Steel Gem gives you a wonderful hard hitting priority and a devistating Meteor Mash in exchange for less safety versus Chandelure and Heatran (who, might I add, are dealt with very well between Suicune, Rotom-W and Garchomp).

Hope my advice helped!

 

[Sabafish]

@DrShellgon: Thanks for the link. I'll make sure to bookmark it for the next time I post an RMT.

@TheMantyke: Thanks for the suggestions; for my next teambuilding process and for the current Pokemon. And I can agree with most of those changes there.

For CM on Suicune, I was under the impression that stat-boosting moves were generally a no-no in Doubles. My first turn tends to go something like Protect with Aboma and Tailwind with Sui and go out spamming Blizzards. But I do have to change that up when made to answer certain threats. And while Protect usually lets me stick around for another turn, I can definitely see the benefit in Calm Mind. Like you said, Suicune can take quite the beating (I have even taken negligible damage from Electric Gem boosted Discharge off of Thundurus with help from Wacan berry). I can see Calm Mind benefiting me a lot in the late game as well where I just need to tank and dole out the damage.

Icy Wind on Cresselia is actually something I've been meaning to try out. Especially in one of the battles I had in the last tournament I attended where it was down to Garchomp and Cresselia against Latios and Salamence. Latios was my biggest concern at that moment but luckily, for whatever reason, instead of just taking out the Garchomp, he decided to target down the Cresselia who barely took a hit. If I had Icy Wind at that time, I could have dropped Latios' speed within range of a KO off of Chompy and I would have likely taken out his Salamence who was just barely hanging in there.

Lastly, I feel like I can go with a change in Occa to Steel Gem. There have been a few times where Bullet Punch just failed to squeeze out the KO (with hail damage) and I can always appreciate an ass-load of damage coming off of Meteor Mash.

I'll get to those changes as soon as I can. Again, thanks!

 

[Sabafish]

I'm going to bump the thread with a few recent concerns.

I've noticed a few Pokemon giving me a bit of trouble while screwing around in Random Battle on wifi. Namely, Gastrodon, Ferrothorn, and Alomomola.

If I lose Abomasnow early on, I really don't have that great of an answer to Gastrodon which actually rather scares me. Especially in Trick Room teams. I'm considering switching Rotom's Hidden Power from Fire to Grass just so I have another check on him as Scizor is usually taken care of by either Hydro Pump or Thunderbolt.

Ferrothorn in the rain can be a messy Pokemon to punch through, especially if I lose both of my Blizzard spammers. HP Fire did very marginal damage and was essentially a 5 to 6HKO when I went up against one earlier. Perhaps giving a Fighting move to someone would be a good change? Though I really don't know if I could drop Protect on either Abomasnow or Metagross for something like Hammer Arm. I feel Protect's utility is just too good.

Lastly, Alomomola is more of an embarrassing tale. I really shouldn't have that much trouble against it however, through misplays and critical hits one of my games came down to a 1v1 between my Garchomp and a SubToxicWish Stall Alomomola with Rocky Helmet. Without Swords Dance on Chompy I had no real way to bust through it. But I really don't think I can afford to pass up on any of Chompy's moves either. I feel like I had just gotten unlucky and could probably avoid that whole mess again but I feel like I should bring that up.

 

[Golden Piloswine]

Alomomola? I've never seen it on VGC Random Matchup, maybe it's because I'm doing rating mode. To take out Alomomola just simply aim two strong attacks that it does'nt resist, and it's gone, it's slow so this is very possible. I would suggest to try to pick your Pokemon carefully during Team Preview, you should'nt pick more than any two mons with the same weakness unless your positive that your opponent does'nt carry any potential Pokemon that will wreck your team, so from what I'm seeing about Alomomola, try having Cresselia out there at the same time, even if it's means throwing it out third. Give Cresselia Rest in case of Toxic, and for HP restoration, replace Light Screen.

 

[Sabafish]

I actually changed Light Screen to Icy Wind to help against faster things that I wouldn't normally be able to handle like Latios, etc. Like you said, I probably just need to think about my team choice a little more during the team preview.

 

[TheMantyke]

If I lose Abomasnow early on, I really don't have that great of an answer to Gastrodon which actually rather scares me. Especially in Trick Room teams. I'm considering switching Rotom's Hidden Power from Fire to Grass just so I have another check on him as Scizor is usually taken care of by either Hydro Pump or Thunderbolt.

I agree with this change. Whenever I use Rotom-W, I tend to use him primarily as my go to anti-rain Pokemon and Hidden Power Grass ensures Gastrodon can't sit its keister down all day. It's hardly a requirement since you have Abomasnow, but if you feel like you need the extra insurance against rain, go right ahead.

Ferrothorn in the rain can be a messy Pokemon to punch through, especially if I lose both of my Blizzard spammers. HP Fire did very marginal damage and was essentially a 5 to 6HKO when I went up against one earlier. Perhaps giving a Fighting move to someone would be a good change? Though I really don't know if I could drop Protect on either Abomasnow or Metagross for something like Hammer Arm. I feel Protect's utility is just too good.

Oof, Ferrothorn. It's no secret that things hard to work around if you lack a good STAB SE Fire or Fighting type moves. I think that if you run into him, you should try to fire off as many helping hand boosted STAB attacks as possible just to keep up the pressure on him. Hammer Arm and HP Fire on Abomasnow are definately things to consider, but I would recommend substituting those options in for Ice Shard, Zen Headbutt, or Bullet Punch rather than Protect.

Lastly, Alomomola is more of an embarrassing tale. I really shouldn't have that much trouble against it however, through misplays and critical hits one of my games came down to a 1v1 between my Garchomp and a SubToxicWish Stall Alomomola with Rocky Helmet. Without Swords Dance on Chompy I had no real way to bust through it. But I really don't think I can afford to pass up on any of Chompy's moves either. I feel like I had just gotten unlucky and could probably avoid that whole mess again but I feel like I should bring that up.

Don't be too down about this, we all lose to embarrassing stuff on occasion. My advice for the next time around would be to try playing your Abomasnow and/or Rotom-W very conservatively.

Hope my advice helps again!

 

[Sabafish]

So Team WinMea3DSXL well, won me a 3DSXL. So I'm pretty stoked about that, haha.

I ended up sticking with Hidden Power Fire on Rotom and didn't run into any Ferrothorn at the tournament. Turns out our local meta is largely Sandstorm and Trick Room teams and I had a blast playing in it.

Here's the BW code for one of the rounds in the final match. 637756646927
I made the error of forgetting that there were more than Rotom types than just Wash and made an embarrasing play of T-Bolting a Rotom-H.

 

[uxsee]

This team seems pretty good all-around, but seems to have a giant weakness to ferrothorn, porygon2, and chansey. Therefore, i would recommend changing suicune to Fighting Gem Hitmontop. Suicune only provides tailwind, which is not really needed with cresselia's icy wind. Hitmontop also provides your team with fake out and wide guard support, which is fairly excellent considering half your team is weak to some form of a spread attack. He also forms the famous TopCresselia combo, which can cripple your opponent early on in the game. Sucker Punch also adds some more priority to the team and helps with latios, latias, and chandelure.

Here's the set:

Hide

Hitmontop (M) @ Fight Gem
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Atk / 36 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Wide Guard

 

[Sabafish]

That's actually a pretty cool suggestion. I experienced the sheer power of a boosted CC over random matchup recently and thought it'd be cool to play with him.

The thing with Suicune and Cresselia is I rarely have both of them out at once so the redundancy of Icy Wind and Tail Wind is hardly an issue. I rarely seem to mix "Poke-cores" around as in if I chose to play with AbomaCune, then I probably won't be putting CresseChomp with them.

But still, thanks for the suggestion as he was one of the Pokemon I was considering early on when building this team. Maybe I'll use him for VGC '13 now that BW2 is officially out.

Is there a VGC '13 metagame right now with the BW2 additions? I'd actually like to look into that.

 

[The Knights of Wario Land]

The main problem with Fight Gem Top nowadays is the dreaded Chople Berry Ferrorthorn, which I see being more used nowadays than Lefties Ferrothorn. Chople Ferrothorn can easily live a boosted CC, and then KO right back the -1 Top with Power Whip and/or Leech Seed it or Paralyze it.

I would reccomend just putting HP Fire on Abomasnow over Protect, seeing as most opponents will expect Abomasnow to Protect after its Sash is eaten up, but firing off an HP Fire at Ferrothorn could surprise it.

Porygon2 and Chansey really aren't that common either, but it looks like your team can manage them pretty well if they come in.