The Beauties and the Beasts

Tryo

Hey there, I'm about to build a team for my first competition for beginners of a regional European forum. I started to read about competitive battling a few months ago so I'm still far from being an expert and my team still has some major flaws.

So here it is:

THE BEAUTIES

florges.png

Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast

I built my team around this beauty. I know Sylveon is a slightly better wish passer but I kind of have a special relationship with her and she does her job really well. I might consider replacing her with Eviolite Chansey if Chansey with Wish is allowed but otherwise I would like to keep Florges in my team. I gave her some physical bulk to better resist fighting Pokémon, the rest should be clear.


350.png

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Haze

Haze as a surprise move for boosters that otherwise would give my team a hard time. Since it takes away an attack slot I decided against a Sleep Talk set and went for Recover instead.


THE BEASTS

aggron-mega.png

Aggron @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Power-Up Punch

Florges fears poison and steal attacks, which Mega-Aggron doesn't care about at all. Plus Thunder Wave cripples the enemy and increases the chance for Florges to pass her wishes to her teammates. Power-Up Punch for some Power since all EVs were used to increase the kind of low special defense and to outspeed other 50 base-speed Pokémon. Iron Head as a strong STAB and Earthquake as a strong attack for neutral coverage.


490.png

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Bold Nature
- Fire Blast
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stealth Rock

I want some hazards! Taunt and Will-O-Wisp to cripple enemies, Fire Blast to do some damage. I gave it an Air Ballon because of its great weakness to Earthquake, while the enemy is busy destroying the ballon I can burn him and make it safer for my other members to switch.
I thought of giving it a few Speed IVs to outspeed Mega-Venusaur and can taunt it before it can use Leach Seed because Heatran is my only Pokémon that can safely check it, what do you think?


660.png

Mandibuzz @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 SDef
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Defog
- Roost

My defogger to get rid of annoying entry hazards, of course I always have to bear in mind that I will remove my own Stealth Rocks as well. Knock Off to weaken almost everything that's not a Mega-Pokémon or Gliscor. The Toxic/Rocky Helmet/Defog combination to passively beat or at least weaken the enemy.


675.png

Landorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs:4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- U-turn

Looking at my team I found that Heatran and Aggron had a ground weakness while Milotic and Mandibuzz will get problems with electric attacks so I picked Landorus as my last team member to be immune to both types. I chose the incarnate form over the therian form to have more speed, Swords Dance to handle Aegislash's King Shield and U-turn to switch and cause some extra damage.




Main problem:
Bulky water Pokémon. I have no attack that hits water Pokémon effectively, I can't even OHKO Greninja (except from when someone used Dark Pulse against my Florges...). I could replace Milotic with Rotom-W but then I would still have problems with Water/Ground types like Quagsire and Gastrodon. The only plant Pokémon I like playing so far is Mega-Venusur but I don't really want to let go of Aggron. Any other suggestions how I could get rid of this problem?
 
Why not replace Milotic with a Gastrodon? A standard bold defensive set with leftovers makes for physical bulk and even has the chance to power up if you make a switch into a water move meant for Heatran or Lando. It doesn't have haze BUT it does get clear smog if you're looking to stop set up.
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4SDef
Bold Nature
- Earth Power/Clear Smog
- Scald
- Ice Beam/Toxic
- Recover
Toxic is for another way to deal with bulky water types
 
Thanks, replacing Milotic with a water/ground type is a good idea, although I decided to go for Quagsire instead of Gastrodon. Clear Smog has the same effect as Haze but it also causes damage, it can thus easily be stopped by a substitute that many Pokémon that boost set up, especially in Baton Passer teams. Even if Gastrodon destroys the substitute, due to its incredibly low speed the enemy can easily set up a new one before I have even the chance to use Clear Smog.
While Quagsire can not only avoid the substitute with Haze, it can more safely be switched in an already boosted Pokémon thanks to Unaware.

Here is the set I thought of:

195.png

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze

Should I play Scald over Waterfall and choose bold nature? I fear it won't do much damage if I don't burn the enemy, 65 SpA-base isn't much.
 
Tryo said:
Clear Smog has the same effect as Haze but it also causes damage, it can thus easily be stopped by a substitute that many Pokémon that boost set up, especially in Baton Passer teams.
Click to expand...

Added affects on moves like Knock Off, Dynamic Punch and Clear Smog Don't Go Though Substitues.
 
Hey posting on this rather interesting team:

First off, I know you prefer Florges over Sylveon even though Sylveon is stronger for the role and thats fine, but you should still think about it over again. Other than that, I'd like to advise you to change your current Florges set. With a rather measly 68 Def stat compared to its more powerful 154 SpD stat I think its just better to make it a full SpD Wall rather than invest point on Def that it won't particularly use at all as it won't take physical attacks well in general. Most hits you take that would have been OHKO's just become 2HKO's with the Def EV's, which means that Florges won't be able to switch into those hit anyways and then won't be able to take hits from big hitters like Mega Charizard Y. You already are running a Mega Aggron and a Quagsire as full Physical Walls and a Mandibuzz leaning more towards the Physically Defensive side so having a full Special Wall is prefered. I think its a good idea to test out Chansey over Florges as it might prove more helpful as a SpD wall.

Defensive EV Florges
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 234-276 (65 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(234, 237, 240, 241, 244, 247, 250, 253, 256, 258, 261, 264, 267, 270, 273, 276)

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges in Sun: 217-256 (60.2 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(217, 220, 222, 225, 228, 229, 232, 235, 238, 240, 243, 246, 247, 250, 253, 256)

Specially Defensive EV Florges
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 349-412 (96.9 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
(349, 354, 358, 363, 366, 370, 375, 379, 382, 387, 391, 396, 399, 403, 408, 412)

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges in Sun: 168-198 (46.6 - 55%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(168, 169, 171, 174, 175, 177, 180, 181, 183, 186, 187, 189, 192, 193, 195, 198)
Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast

I think maybe try out Trevenant in order to deal with those pesky Water, Ground, or Water/Ground types that are common. It has nice recovery with either a ChestoResto + Harvest set or a Sitrus Harvest set and it can take a good amount of Spd hits.
 
[quote="

Should I play Scald over Waterfall and choose bold nature? I fear it won't do much damage if I don't burn the enemy, 65 SpA-base isn't much.[/quote]
Scald is good if you want residual damage but you have toxic so I'd vote for waterfall
 
Dirty Bum said:
Added affects on moves like Knock Off, Dynamic Punch and Clear Smog Don't Go Though Substitues.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I didn't know that! Still I think unaware helps me to better handle boosters although I'm quite disappointed with Quagsire's special defense.

Bravadorado said:
Why is Mandibuzz in the beasts? ARE YOU IMPLYING THAT SHE IS NOT A HOT PIECE OF ASS?!
Click to expand...
Lol sorry, I admit there's something hot about her with the bone in her hair, maybe she's some kind of gothic beauty? Since she has noting for that fairy-glitter-thing that surrounds Florges and Milotic I'd rather leave her with the beasts where she feels way more at ease.

whoyoufinnatry said:
Hey posting on this rather interesting team:

First off, I know you prefer Florges over Sylveon even though Sylveon is stronger for the role and thats fine, but you should still think about it over again. Other than that, I'd like to advise you to change your current Florges set. With a rather measly 68 Def stat compared to its more powerful 154 SpD stat I think its just better to make it a full SpD Wall rather than invest point on Def that it won't particularly use at all as it won't take physical attacks well in general. Most hits you take that would have been OHKO's just become 2HKO's with the Def EV's, which means that Florges won't be able to switch into those hit anyways and then won't be able to take hits from big hitters like Mega Charizard Y. You already are running a Mega Aggron and a Quagsire as full Physical Walls and a Mandibuzz leaning more towards the Physically Defensive side so having a full Special Wall is prefered. I think its a good idea to test out Chansey over Florges as it might prove more helpful as a SpD wall.
Click to expand...

I was ready to change Florges for Sylveon (its only for a competition anyway, not the team I want to build in X where Heal Bell Sylveon would be a problem) but had a look at the stats again. Except from Sylveon's higher HP which definitely makes it a better wisher, Florges' much higher special defense and speed stand out, I really couldn't make myself changing her. My team has already lost much speed when I replaced Milotic with Quagsire, I really want to stay with Florges. I made her a SpD wall as you suggested though, it's awesome how she walls Rotom-W now.

whoyoufinnatry said:
I think maybe try out Trevenant in order to deal with those pesky Water, Ground, or Water/Ground types that are common. It has nice recovery with either a ChestoResto + Harvest set or a Sitrus Harvest set and it can take a good amount of Spd hits.
Click to expand...
Trevenant can be quite annoying (I got walled by a lum berry set btw) and I wouldn't mind having it in my team, unfortunately I don't know which Pokémon I should abandon for him, everyone has their role which can't be taken by Trevenant.




I figured out another very common candidate that really gives me problems:
477.png

Waterfall doesn't do enough damage (even Florges' Moonblast hits it harder...) , I really need an ice move back on my team (Milotic gives me a smuggly "I knew it"-look). I could either play Landorus as a special sweeper and give up the strong Earthquakes and U-Turn after one Swords Dance, or play this rather creative set on Aggron I came up with thinking which of my team's move could most easily be replaced. Since I hardly get to play Power-Up Punch, I thought of replacing it with Avalanche:

Aggron @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Atk / 92 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Avalanche

For the EV-split I calculated how much investment on attack is needed for a guaranteed OHKO on a 252 HP / 252 Def Scizor after it had hit me with Earthquake. It lost a lot of its special bulk but Florges can do that job much better anyway now. It also makes sense to use it to check Scizor since it's immune to Toxic that cripples the rest of my team if Heatran has lost its balloon.
 
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To counter gliscor put HP Ice on heatran and get heatran out before gliscor because if the opponate has a Gliscor it is almost the perfect counter for Heatran except for HP ice. That won't help you out on the switch ins, switching Heatran into gliscor is a terrible idea, but it should help you lure it out.
 
The above is a good idea, I would fall for this trap. But keep in mind you lose a coverage move by doing so so weigh your options thoroughly.

Also OP you seem to be confusing gliscor and scizor in your last post at the bottom.
 
I'm back to give some points to why Florges isn't as good as Sylveon.

Not only does Sylveon prove to have a stronger base HP and SpA, but Sylveon proves to have the better ability in Pixilate, which allows Sylveon to run a stronger move in Hyper Voice and be able to hit through substitutes if need be. The difference in SpD between the two does not make as much of a difference as you'd think and the extra HP proves much more helpful as it allows Sylveon to provide it's role as a cleric better as it can heal other pokes better. Though you might prefer the Spe stat of Florges, you won't outspeed much in the OU tier with either 60 Base Spe from Sylveon or 75 Base Spe from Florges, so the difference is not going to stand out that much. The only notable pokes I can think of that Florges outspeeds but Sylveon doesn't is Tyranitar and with some Choice Banded Tyranitars running around, Florges won't want to stay in anyways since it doesn't want to take an incoming Stone Edge which will OHKO it. In fact, they are walls so speed isn't really going to be their more useful trait. In order to show the lacking difference in SpD between Sylveon and Florges, here are some calcs, using Mega Charizard-Y:

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon in Sun: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(187, 190, 192, 195, 196, 199, 201, 204, 205, 208, 210, 213, 214, 217, 219, 222)

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges in Sun: 168-198 (46.6 - 55%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(168, 169, 171, 174, 175, 177, 180, 181, 183, 186, 187, 189, 192, 193, 195, 198)
 
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