The Blue Cune has risen [OU RMT]

[Fallen Destiny]

Hey guys, it's FD here with another OU Rate My Team. This time, again i don't want to use the most used pokemon in my team, 2-3 being the limit. I hope this doesn't become one of the reasons why it won't get enough rates. If it doesn't, that is xD. Now, after some testing on shoddy, i thought i would put this team up for rating. It does quite well. Now, this team is partly offensive. Here we are---

Team Building Process

First of all, i need a good lead. Now, i want to differ from your everyday leads, like swampert, metagross etc. So i chose mamoswine, partly because it is my favourite lead and can stop many sweeps.

Now, i want two revenge killers. So i chose flygon and heatran, which are one of the most reliable revenge killers (in my opinion).

I don't want to be walled by skarmbliss or swampert, so i chose infernape as my mixed sweeper and my hard-hitter.

Stealth rock is an important to help in sweeping, so i need a spin blocker which also acts as a supportive pokemon. Now, gengar is not the best option, since it can't support. So i choose mismagius, with will-o-wisp and taunt.

I had a bit of a water weakness, so i put in a suicune to also act as an offensive pokemon and partly a wall.


So we have:

An in-depth look:

The Lead:

@Focus Sash
Adamant|Snow Cloak
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spe
~Earthquake
~Stealth Rock
~Stone Edge/Superpower
~Ice Shard


This is my mean, brown, leading machine o_o. It takes care of most of the leads in the OU metagame. Now, i'm not really sure whether to keep the EV spread as 252 Spe or 252 HP, since it's a lead. So please help me out with that. Also, i don't know whether to run stone edge or superpower. Earthquake is a 2HKO on metagross. Ice shard helps me with countering salamence, flygon, latias. So there is no worry of DD mence running through my team. I have a feeling stone edge will be of less use than superpower, but i don't know what to run. Mamoswine's main role is to eliminate all leads and later, to hit hard.

The first Revenge Killer:

@Choice Scarf
Jolly|Levitate
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
~U-Turn
~Outrage
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge/Fire Blast/ThunderPunch

My first revenge killer. As i started playing OU, i realized what a reliable revenge killer flygon is. It can deal with most threats, including starmie, which is a great threat to my team. Flygon can U-Turn on switches and keep the momentum of the game on my side. It's my stallbreaker. Fire Blast i preferred by me because of skarmory, but my friend said stone edge would be better. Help me out on that xD. Outrage can be used when 1-2 pokemon of my opponent are left, to hit hard. It's main role is to revenge kill and keep the momentum of the game on my side

The Second Revenge Killer:

@Life Orb
Timid|Flash Fire
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
~Fire Blast
~Dragon Pulse
~Earth Power
~Explosion


My second revenge killer. This heatran can absorb fire attacks, which includes will-o-wisp from rotoms and weezing which can cripple flygon, making it useless, and mamoswine, which also makes it pretty much useless. In my last RMT, i had run HP Electric for gyarados, but i was told to run dragon pulse, so i ran it and it did okayish. Still in the dark about that. Flash fire is an amazing ability, giving me a 2HKO over swampert with stealth rock damage twice or thrice, using fire blast. It's main role is to absorb fire attacks and hit hard/revenge kill.

The Support:

@Leftovers
Bold|Levitate
252 HP, 168 Def, 88 SpD
~Will-o-wisp
~Overheat
~Shadow Ball
~Thunderbolt/Discharge

My support. It cripples scizors and tyranitars, who happily switch into it, hoping to pursuit it to death. Overheat is used to shut down scizor instantly, mostly for the SD variants. It can also kill an SD lucario instantly. Rotom really helps in sticky situations. Shadow ball and thunderbolt are epic with dual STAB. If you can suggest better EVs, then your suggestion is welcome. It's main role is to support and cripple physcial sweepers, whilst hitting hard at the same time.

The Monkey Man:

@Life Orb
Naive|Blaze
~Grass Knot
~Flamethrower/Fire Blast
~Close Combat/Vacuum Wave
~Nasty Plot

My mixed sweeper. This ensures that i don't get walled by SkarmBliss. This thing likes running amok on teams, and hitting very hard. It's specially based nasty plot. And i think i need grass knot more than HP [ice]. It makes me vulnerable to swampert, not having grass knot, or so i think. Help me with this .-. Now, this thing can sweep things after it has a few plots up. Or even one. Something makes me want to use Vacuum wave, but that same something tells me skarmbliss exists. Help me with that too please.

The Elegant Cune:

@Leftovers
Bold|Pressure
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
~Surf
~Ice Beam/HP electric (Help!)
~Rest
~Calm Mind

Suicune is my water insurance. It can tank and sweep at the same time. Surf+Ice Beam is walled by a water type, and i don't know whether to chose between ice beam or HP [Electric]. Suicune is mostly used in the late-game stage, and i don't know why, but it helps in the late game stage a lot..Pressure stall lets me stall out pokemon like vaporeon and quagsire, but it's not preferred, especially if it isn't the last pokemon. Suicune's main role is to tank, and sweep at the same time.

So there we are, my n00bish team xD. Now, let me brace myself for all those negative comments.

 

[Fallen Destiny]

Abomasnow- Mamoswine can kill it with superpower, providing it does not wood hammer first or wood hammer misses. Heatran can OHKO, rotom-h can OHKO.

Aerodactyl- Taken care of by mamoswine, rotom-h, suicune, and even flygon!

Azelf- All lead variants call for flygon, stopping the trick and could harm it badly with U-Turn and then KO with mamoswine's ice shard. Late game sweeper variants, again taken care of by flygon, and suicune.

Blissey- Taken care of by mamoswine's superpower, infernape's close combat, heatran's explosion, and suicune pressure stall as a last resort.

Breloom- Not much of a problem. Rotom can shadow ball him to death, or instant kill via overheat. Subseeders annoy me though.

Bronzong- Lead variants call for a switch to heatran after setting up rocks. Otherwise, suicune, heatran, infernape, and rotom can take care of it.

Celebi- Mamoswine can hurt it a little, can be annoying at times. But infernape and heatran keep it down pretty much. Flygon can hurt it a great deal with U-Turn, and suicune can kill it with Ice Beam.

Dragonite- Ice shard OHKOs, and mamoswine takes about 40-50 from +2 extremespeed. Yachenites are told, "Hi, I'm your killer!", by flygon. Rotom can always WoW it too.

Dusknoir- Rotom can 2HKO or 3HKO with shadow ball, suicune can own it by CMing and then sweep. Could cause some problems.

Electivire- Fail. Infernape can OHKO once a plot is up, rotom can Willowisp and shadow ball it to death. Flygon can come in and OHKO with earthquake.

Empoleon- Suicune can stop SubAgiliPetaya ones, +1 surf can break a sub and +2 can 3-4HKO. Otherwise, i have problems with this thing. Mostly i don't let it set up, so it hasn't caused me much of a problem yet.

Flygon- My own flygon, but that's speed tie. Suicune owns it, mamoswine owns it, rotom owns it.

Forretress- Infernape oHKOs with fire blast, heatran does the same. All special attacks from my pokemon 2HKO it at the least .-.

Gengar- Flygon 2HKOs with outrage. Infernape can cause some harm to it since it won't OHKO with shadow ball, and infernape can hit it with a STAB LO Fire blast. Then, once it's below 50, mamoswine finishes it off. Or even suicune, for that matter.

Gliscor- Suicune OHKOs with Ice Beam, rotom can outspeed and Will o wisp it and then shadow ball. Infernape can OHKO with HP Ice and mamoswine can at least 2HKO it with SR damage via ice shard.

Gyarados- It can be stopped by flygon's thunderpunch after +1 too. Otherwise, rotom can will o wisp it or thunderbolt for instant kill.

Heatran- My own heatran, mamoswine can kill the heatran leads, flygon can revenge kill and suicune can surf it to death.

Heracross- Suicune keeps a good check on it, 2HKOing with +1 surf, and rotom can thunderbolt it to death. Infernape can take care of the flame/toxic orb variants.

Infernape- Suicune can OHKO with surf, flygon can revenge kill, rotom can 3HKO with thunderbolt.

Jolteon- Heatran can OHKO with earth power, same for mamoswine with earthquake, flygon can revenge kill it.

Jirachi- Heatran and infernape can 2HKO with fire blasts, and flygon can 2HKO with earthquake. Rotom can will o wisp the scarf variants.

Kingdra- Flygon can OHKO DD variants after +1, and heatran can explode if it's trying to setup on it. Rotom can Will o wisp it after it gets +1. Rain dance variants are a bit of a problem..

Latias- Flygon can revenge kill it, suicune can 2HKO with Ice Beam, and mamoswine can 2HKO with Ice shard. Rotom might OHKO with shadow ball.

Lucario- Suicune can 2HKO with +1 CM. It would take 1 turn for lucario to setup SD, thus suicune gets the KO, whilst not getting OHKOd itself. Rotom can also will-o-wisp, since i might change the 88 SpD Evs to 88 Spe EVs. Infernape also doesn't get OHKOd by +2 Extremespeed, OHKOing with close combat/fireblast

Machamp- Suicune pretty much takes care of it, 3HKOing it after +1 surf. Resttalk versions can be used as setup bait for suicune. Mamoswine can take off 60% with an Earthquake, allowing infernape/suicune/heatran to clean up.

Magnezone- Mamoswine OHKOs. As for the scarf variants, they can't do anything to heatran, which OHKOs with fire blast.

Mamoswine- Heatran outruns adamant variants. Infernape OHKOs with fire blast.

Metagross- AgiliGross is stopped by suicune. Otherwise, flygon can revenge kill, rotom can will-o-wisp it. Infernape OHKOs with fire blast, and heatran 2HKOs with flamethrower/fireblast.

Ninjask- Mamoswine could OHKO with ice shard, heatran can wall it, infernape can wall it, and suicune can set up on it. Mostly mamoswine can beat it .-.

Roserade- Mamoswine 2HKOs lead variants, breaking their sashes. After it's asleep, heatran comes to clean up.

Rotom-a- My own rotom, heatran makes a good check.

Scizor- Heatran, infernape, suicune, and rotom can all own this little annoying buggy.

 

[ginganinja]

Well ill give this a shot.

First Mammo really wants a sash otherwise it can get KO'ed by many leads who do run sash. Its worth it as many leads have supereffective attacks on mammo.

i really don't like your mismagius set, you says its for support so why is is running sweeper orrientated EV's? Try a Rotom H which can burn, gets STAB on Thunderbolt unlike Mismagius, and is more bulky than Mismagius.

You have nothing to really deal with Water types especially offensive suicune as while they lack recovery, they carry HP Electric as laugh while you try to kill them with Surf. Give your suicune HP electric or run Roar over Rest to deal with them at a later time.

I would also like to see a a Nasty Plot mixape as it can help against waters it it gets a Nasty Plot in.

lastly Heatran is fine however I am not seeing why it needs to have a scarf, you could run a LO set to hit a wider range of things without having to be restricted by a Scarf.

Just my 2 cents

Have a nice Day

 

[Bartman101]

well, lets see..

Mamo- i use on myself to great success with the following moveset
Mamo@sash
252atk 252speed 4 def (SR)
adamant
-SR
-EQ
-Ice Shard
-Protect
Protect allows u to beat ape, eq is good strong stab and can kill tran even through shuca, speed is needed 4 a lead

flygon-
4 the last moveslot, fire blast is not needed, since u have 2 pokes with fire moves already
u also need to revenge kill gyara effectively, id go 4 tpunch as stone edge is too unreliable

heatran- looks good, though change the 4hp evs to attack for SR and explosion

mismagius- well, erm im afraid in OU, against most good players, that thing cant cut it, as a replacement i recommend rotom-c
Rotom-C@leftovers
252hp 168def 88 speed
bold
-will o wisp
-thunderbolt/rest
-shadow ball/rest
- hp fighting/sleep talk
this thing does very similar to mismagius, but it gets stab on both tbolt and shadow ball, can spread burn with will-owisp and have good type coverage, or be a good sleep absorber if u go 4 rest, talk, w-o-w, tbolt/shadow ball

infernape- all fine

suicune- ur late game sweeper i presume, so on ur rather offensive team this suicune may work, or u may prefer ur current set-up better
suicune@life orb
4hp 252spa 252 speed
timid/modest
-calm mind
-surf/hydro pump
-hp electric
-ice beam
taken straight from the analysis, i've never used this set b4 myself, but i believe it can work as a good element of suprise, even outspeeding adamant lucario (if u go timid) and drawing with it if luc is jolly, u basically set-up a couple of cms and then proceed to sweep with very good type coverage

 

[jc104]

I would suggest using a Jolly nature and 4hp 252atk 252spe on Mamoswine, such that you can outrun Heatran and OHKO most of the time. This would obviously be best used with a focus sash. As mentioned before, Mamoswine has terrible defensive typing and will as such be OHKOed easily by many leads otherwise.

Good luck

Edit @ bartman - I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. You have a good chance to prevent SR against Heatran with Jolly, but not with Adamant. If it chooses to attack, you may not be able to set up SR afterwards. You can easily finish it off the following turn if you miss the KO, giving Heatran the same number of turns as you would with Adamant.

I quite like the idea of protect though.

 

[Bartman101]

yo jc104, as i've experienced, most lead trans set up SR on the first turn against mamo lead, plus u r not guaranteed to KO through shuca with jolly, but u r with adamant

 

[Fallen Destiny]

Ok, i'll try those changes. Thanks. Although, how excatly does protect help me beat infernape?

 

[Bartman101]

u protect first turn, so they cant fake out u, not breaking ur sash, u then EQ them to their sash, as they fire blast/set up rocks. u then ice shard 4 the ko!

 

[Fallen Destiny]

Oh right. Thanks a lot for the suggestion. I'll get the threat list done in some time, sorry. But rates can keep coming!

The team has been updated with some changes!

 

[Lucalibur]

got your PM, i will try my best here:try a different suicune with a ev spread of 252 hp, 216 speed and 40 defense using a timid nature, the reason for this is so that you can outspeed pokemons like adamant lucario so that you surf then before the CC(a +2 CC got a chance to ohko max max bold suicune after SR damage), there is no need to run max speed or life orb because you need a significant amount of bulky to setup more then 1 CM, use surf, hp eletric, ice beam and CM with leftovers, you also outspeed adamant gyara and ko with a +1 hp eletric after SR and with ice beam you can kill those salamences. if you want a skarmbliss counter then the standard mixape can work just fine (with all latias and starmies running around OU you dont really got time to setup nasty plot) instead of the nasty plot one, you got suicune AND heatran for heavy special atacks anyway so no need for another special setup pokemon. (taking out bliss from the way make sure only vaporeon wall suicune even with hp eletric. but since you got rotom that is not a problem), i dont have a lot more to say besides that, sorry.

 

[Fallen Destiny]

Thanks. How would you rate it on a scale of 10?

 

[Lucalibur]

i would give a 9, the thing is that you got 2 fire types that share weakness and the same counters but besides that the team is well done and got good sinergy together. btw good going using timid nature on heatran, explosion still ohko blissey even with timid but most people dont notice that and use naive instead(with naive nature latias surf is going to ko you a lot more often, with timid her surf wont ever do more then 70% if its the timid scarf one)

 

[YTP]

Hmm

Take 20 EVs out of defense and put them into speed on cune. This will allow you to beat out defensive rotom and calm mind before they can tbolt.

I would personally use physically based mixape with u-turn over your set. just to lure out latias (if its allowed still... iono). A pursuiter would be nice on the other end of this. Maybe a lead tar over mamo or scizor over tran. I personally dont like lead mamo with machamp lead always beating it one on one.

 

[Fallen Destiny]

Yes, YTP. I did consider those changes earlier, but i don't want to use really used pokemon a lot, you see :P

 

[Aircraft Cemetery]

Hey Fallen Destiny,

OK, got our message again and although I'm unfortunately a bit late (really sorry for that. University, you know...) I will give this a shot and try to do my best to help.
This team appears to be quite offensive natured. This concept is followed by your team members quite well, for you have two very reliable revenge killers and some hard-hitting stuff. But when I now look at your team, after the first changes you made, I must say that the general performance became better, but a new flaw emerged. Scarf Heatran and Missy were two very reliable checks for SD Lucario. LO Heatran and this Rotom... let me put it like this: Once Lucario got in one SD and Stealth Rocks are on the field, you can forfeit. Crunch ohkoes Rotom, Close Combat ohkoes Heatran and Suicune while +2 ESpeed ohkoes the rest. Lucario is the only threat that arises but that's already enough I think. Having analyzed this team I also could find other possible problems, namely Salamence. I know Mamoswine sounds like the best Mence counter out there, but actually it won't be alive when Mence starts it's rampage (no pun intended). If Mamo is dead you will absolutely rely on the Speed Tie with Flygon to kill it. Something your team will also have trouble is Draco Meteors in general. MixMences and Latias can spam DMs and kill one of your team members after the other. Heatran is your only Dragon resist, and a rather unreliable one as it has no form of recovery and won't like switching into Latias at all. So this is really something you will have to carefully play around, as it will be very hard to efectively fix without changing too much of your team. Also you can have some slight issues against Baton Pass teams due to your Lack of a phazer and Trick. Anyway, onto the suggestions.

Okay, first of all I've noticed you now run Infernape, Rotom, Heatran, Suicune all of which have been over 10% usage last month so have you given up your concept of using rare pokemon?
Because if not, I would definitely use Metagross over Mamoswine in the lead slot. With its dragon resist and immense bulk it will fare well against most dragons. The big advantages over Mamo are its survivability throughout the whole match and its better matchups against common leads (in contrast to what you said Meta leads win against Mamo leads !). The main reason why i chose Metagross is its immensely powerful Explosion, which will be your only offensive answer to Baton Pass teams (doing for example over 75% to BP Gliscor under Screens and 80% to Vaporeon after Acid Armor).
Metagross@Lum Berry
-Meteor Mash
-Explosion
-Bullet Punch
-Stealth Rock

Flygon: Perfect set. Definitely Stone Edge in the last slot, as Gyarados is already covered by Rotom and Suicune and Fire Blast won't have the power coming from base 80 SpAtk.

Heatran: You absolutely need the SD Lucario counter, one that counters Jolly and Adamant, Crunch, Ice Punch, Stone Edge and Bullet Punch variants so Scarf Tran is your best hope. Put back the Scarf and keep your moveset. Something you could try however is HP Grass over Dragon Pulse, Earth Power or Explosion in order to hit Swampert harder.

Infernape: I agree with the opinion above that Nasty Plot is not the best choice in today's metagame. So go with the set of CC, Fire Blast, Grass Knot and HP Ice and use Infernape only late game to clean the field. Opposed to what has been said above Heatran and Infernape on the same team is not bad due to them having similar counters, but indeed an advantage for you. Scarf Heatran can weaken those bulky waters so that N'Ape can finish them later.

Suicune: I agree with Lucalibur that a CM three attack set would fit best. The reason is that I feel you will need Ice Beam, Surf and HP Electric or Gyarados and Salamence could become a problem. I would use a spread of 232 Speed, 252SpAtk and 24HP. This spread is bulky enough to take boosted attacks by Gyara and Mence to ohko back while at the same time it provides enough power to sweep (many teams are not prepared for offensive Cune).

Rotom-H: A slightly faster spread will fit your team better, as your team is more a bulky offensive team than a balanced/semi-stall team. 188Spe EVs with a timid nature will outspeed Adamant Lucario, thus provid you with a backup check for it. It will still counter Scizor with ease.
Rotom-H@Leftovers
Timid-252HP, 188Spe, 68Def
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Will-O-Wisp
-Substitute/Overheat
Substitute will let you scout for tyranitar switch ins, so you'll easily burn them. If you want to have the immediate fire Power, Overheat is an option but tbh your team really has enough strong Fire moves, so I'd stick with Sub.

Hope this helped. Good Luck !

 

[Fallen Destiny]

Thanks a lot ACC. I made my team into what you suggested, and it is working very well now. Any final suggestions?

 

[jbozz1217]

I would go for Stone Edge on your Mamoswine and Flygon. Hidden Power Electric for Suicune, and definitely Vacuum Wave on Infernape. I've experienced that Stone Edge on Lead Mamoswine works better than Superpower or Endeavor. You have the fire support on Heatran and Infernape and I don't think you need it on Flygon too. You really could beenfit form Ice Beam on Suicune, but I'd at least test out the HP Elc.