XY OU The Fish, the Pixie, and the Bell, a Tale of OU Stall

[Scubasage]

So here's a stall team I've been working on the past couple of weeks, for an event I'm participating in along with my friends. The restriction is that our teams must contain at least 3 pokemon that share a specific type. In my case, I was lucky and got the Steel type. So, keeping that restriction in mind, I started the team building. First, a preview of the final team, and then I'll go into the building process.
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Team Building Process

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So, the team started with these two, as I really wanted to use them. Mirror Coat Alommoola and Stalltini. So, simple, I put them on the team.​

Then, I wanted something to beat Aegislash (since he wasn't banned yet at the time) and also something to deal with Landorus, given that he's been a pain for my stall teams to usually handle. So I settled on SpD Gliscor. But Gliscor loses to HP Ice from Landorus, so I decided to add another strong check and pokemon that I was interested in trying out in Bronzong.​

Next, I needed two more steel types, and I hadn't used a Mega yet. Given how my normally physically bulky pokemon are both running SpD variants I went with Skarmory, which gave me access to Defog support as well. Finally, a Steel type, and potential Mega. Scizor is definitely the better Mega, but I needed Stealth Rocks, and Scizor needs to give up coverage to be a win condition since it would need Swords Dance and Roost. So I settled on Mega Aggron, who doesn't need setup to hit fairly hard and is incredibly bulky even if I invest in attack. Plus he gets SR so...​

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At this point the team was testing alright, but I noticed a huge weakness to Rotom-W. I didn't have a cleric, and my two burn absorbers don't like taking Hydro Pumps. Nothing really threatened him either, except Victini hitting it on a switch in. So it was at this point I started searching for a lure that could beat Rotom-W and still work on stall. I settled on Energy Ball Jirachi. I knew it was bad but I figure it has enough utility as a Wish passer to make up for it. So I swapped Mega Aggron out. Now though, I had 3 Psychic types and no Ghost/Dark resist, so I swapped Gliscor for Krookodile. Aegislash was banned and Bronzong dealt with any non-Gravity Landorus just fine, so Gliscor wasn't needed. Krookodile gives me another solid physical wall, keeps Gliscor's access to Knock Off and Earthquake, and can even use Taunt and Stealth Rock.
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After testing the team a bit more, I found Rotom-W was still a huge pain to deal with. My "lure" in Jirachi didn't really work. You'd think a pokemon that is resistant to Iron Head and immune to thunder wave, while also being a generally bulky pokemon would be a great switch in to Jirachi but Rotom-W generally didn't come in at all, even if I didn't reveal Energy Ball. So I came up with a new lure, one that was surefire to get Rotom to switch in. Power Herb Solar Beam Heatran. At this point though, I was also really hurting for a cleric, and while having Heatran was nice, I still didn't have a good switch in to Rotom. So I decided to look for a grass type cleric and settled on Shaymin. I chose Shaymin over Celebi (who is generally better) because Celebi's psychic typing would be a hindrance to the team.
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In the end, I decided that Celebi is better than Shaymin because of being able to take on Keldeo much easier. The Ghost/Dark weaknesses really hurt, but other than random Knock Off users or STAB users, there's hardly any pokemon that use those moves for coverage. Celebi has been testing well, since Keldeo's rise to S rank on the viability thread has been only increasing his popularity.
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So here's where the team stands currently.
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So without further ado, here's the sets:


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Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Wish
- Scald Toxic
- Mirror Coat​

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God do I love the Fish. Chansey 2.0 here has some important distinctions that separate it from its fatter cousin and her older sister, Blissey. The first is a better typing. Sure, Fish has more weaknesses than Chansey, but more importantly, Fish also has resistances, namely Water, Steel, Fire and Ice. The second thing is that Fish is a much better Wish passer than Chansey. Chansey's are legitimately huge, but Alomomola's aren't slouches either, healing for a good 267 HP, which is enough to get most pokemon back up to full if they can survive the hit coming in. What really makes Fish shine as a Wish passer is Regenerator, which lets it come in, sponge a hit, Wish on the switch, then switch out and in most cases not even have taken any damage after all is said and done. Regenerator + Leftovers means that one hit has to do more than 40% to even scratch the Fish after it switches. Now, going Calm with Mirror Coat might seem strange, given that Fish is known for being a physical wall, but Alomomola makes a great Mirror Coat user. People don't expect it, very little can actually OHKO this thing, and Mirror Coat deals so much damage it's actually kinda ridiculous. Wish and Protect are pretty obvious and don't need explaining. Toxic is there to better deal with threats like Hydreigon and Charizard X.

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Extra Info and Calcs

A typical Rotom's Volt Switch, for example, will OHKO any pokemon that comes in that isn't a dark type or has less than base 80 fully invested HP.
4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 182-216 (34 - 40.4%) -- 38.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(182, 182, 186, 188, 192, 192, 194, 198, 198, 200, 204, 206, 206, 210, 212, 216)

So let's take 182, the lowest damage roll. That's 34% to Fish (not enough to actually hurt it once it switches out), and 364 damage to the switch in with Mirror Coat. That happens to be exactly Mega Venusaur's maximum HP if fully invested. So a Volt Switch from Rotom-W into Mega Venusaur will pretty much always OHKO Venusaur. As if that wasn't enough, it can beat Yzard in the sun in a pinch!
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola in Sun: 179-211 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 20% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Assuming 39.5% damage, after leftovers that leaves Fish at 67%. Protect for the leftovers recovery. 73%. Then Solar Beam hits.
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 348-410 (65.1 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(348, 352, 356, 360, 364, 368, 372, 376, 380, 384, 388, 392, 396, 400, 404, 410)

That's a pretty good chance of surviving, given that Mola will have 390 HP...and that was with a max damage roll Fire Blast too. Mirror Coat obviously wipes the floor with Yzard afterwards. Focus Blast does a little bit less damage (about 1-2% less on either end of the rolls) than Fire Blast, so nothing changes there. Flamethrower variants lose as max damage rolls from both attacks will leave Mola at 3% HP after everything is said and done. Fish loses to Modest variants though.

It's also fun to make people just instantly quit after getting hit by Mirror Coat
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-149268487
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Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 140 HP / 252 Atk / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
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This is my own take on the Stalltini set. Generally Stalltini runs 224 HP / 252+ Atk / 32 Spe, and I originally ran that spread. It outspeeds Adamant Bisharp and everything slower, and lets Victini burn them. However, I decided going up to 56 speed to outspeed Adamant Mega Heracross was prudent, given how much of a pain Mega Hera will be to deal with. I then bumped the speed up to 116 to outspeed Jolly Breloom (technically 108 speed deals with it, but as this is an in-game team the battles will be at lvl 50, where 116 is needed to outspeed). This change came about after having faced literally 6 Breloom leads in a row...5 of which were SubSeed with Poison Heal. So, the speed lets me outspeed and burn Breloom before it can set up Substitute or Spore and cripple it, regardless of whether or not it is Poison Heal or Technician. Taunt lets Victini beat a lot of slower pokemon who think they can use it as setup bait, while V-Create is just an insane nuke, and Bolt Strike is very good to hit the water types that think they can stomach a V-Create.
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Extra Info and Calcs

Victini is also a great answer to Mega Mawile, Mega Medicham, and Mega Gardevoir depending on her coverage and it's health. it resist all of their STAB attacks, while either crippling with Will-o-Wisp or killing outright.

Besides being a good replay of the team in general, this replay shows how Victini can deal with Mega Mawile, even SubPunch ones.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-149685785

Now, some of you are probably thinking it was an act of desperation, risking Victini like that, but the odds were quite firmly in my favor.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Victini: 330-390 (87.7 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

75% chance of crippling Mega Mawile? Sounds good to me, especially since I outspeed even after the speed drop and can land the burn regardless of what he does. Victini isn't a counter, more of a hard check, and the Pixie definitely needs entry hazards dealt with, but I can sac Skarmory to clear them pretty easily against a Mawile.

No replays vs Mega Medicham or Gardevoir, but...
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Victini: 177-208 (47 - 55.3%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Adamant is a 91% chance of 2HKO though, so it's risky. That being said, Will-O-Wisp cripples it and V-Create actually OHKOs it.
252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 307-363 (117.6 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 140 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 114-135 (30.3 - 35.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
If it runs shadow ball though...
252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Shadow Ball vs. 140 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 210-248 (55.8 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

But, I can switch into Hyper Voice then comfortably take a shadow ball, followed up by:
252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 382-450 (137.4 - 161.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As always with Victini, entry hazards do compromise it's bulk quite a bit, but there's always the option of Wish passing to it to take the hit + rocks then come out all squeaky clean at full health and ready to deal with the opposing pokemon.
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Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Atk / 164 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Zen Headbutt/Protect​

Originally I ran Assault Vest Bronzong with Hidden Power Ice to deal with Landorus-I better. The spread + Assault Vest made Focus Blast a 20% chance to 3HKO with SR up...meaning that I can switch into any attack (barring Gravity) and 2HKO it with Hidden Power Ice. Then I realized that Gyro Ball is a 91% to 2HKO without any prior damage to Landorus, and HP Ice actually loses if it's Calm Mind Landorus. So this means I had a "free" moveslot. Originally I ran Stealth Rocks on Heatran, but I was hurting for a phazing move somewhere, so I switched Bronzong to leftovers and gave it Stealth Rock in the free slot. Landorus is a bit more of an issue now, since Focus Blast is a guaranteed 3HKO, but if Bronzong switches into Earth Power (without Gravity up, of course), Psychic, Sludge Wave or Hidden Power Ice I win, and if a single Focus Blast out of the three misses I win. I'll take those odds. Gyro Ball is STAB and Bronzong's strongest attack by far. Rock Slide is to help against Flying types that like to switch into Bronzong (Talonflame), or that I like to switch Bronzong into (Thundurus and Pinsir). Zen Headbutt is another STAB that happens to hit Mega Venusaur fairly hard, though it really only beats offensive variants or variants that lack Synthesis. It also nails Keldeo on switches. Protect allows me to get Leftovers recovery and offers me another pokemon to swap to for Toxic stalling. I'm undecided on which I like more.
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Extra Info and Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 164+ SpD Bronzong: 142-168 (42 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

92 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (131 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 154-183 (48.1 - 57.1%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO

Like I said earlier, I'll take those odds. It's not called Focus Miss for nothing. Besides, Fish takes about 55% from Earth Power and Mirror Coat will obviously kill it in return afterwards.

Bronzong, however, also deals with Mega Pinsir, and it's the main reason for that attack investment and Rock Slide being on the set.

+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 262-309 (77.5 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

That means I can switch in on the Swords Dance and still live the strongest hit Pinsir can throw at me.
Meanwhile,
92 Atk Bronzong Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 184-220 (67.8 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(184, 188, 188, 192, 192, 196, 200, 200, 204, 204, 208, 208, 212, 212, 216, 220)

Assuming Pinsir switched into SR, then Mega Evolved, that puts it at 204 HP...so I have about a 50% chance to beat it with Rock Slide. Not the best odds, but I can't really improve them much, and I do have Skarmory with Rocky Helmet in the back to help. My main draw to Bronzong especially was how some higher end players were saying he could deal with both Mega Pinsir and Landorus in the same set...and it turns out he's basically a strong check to both, but not really a counter to either. Still, he's been performing well enough that while I do have my doubts about it being a shaky answer, I enjoy having him on the team.
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Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Def / 52 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Taunt​

Pretty standard Skarmory, though there are some important changes. I'm loving Taunt on Skarmory, though I do miss Whirlwind, since it lets me deal with defensive pokemon better. I'm also running a little bit more speed than normal, this is to outspeed Adamant 4 Spe Mega Heracross (at lvl 50 of course). It's such a small investment over the standard 24 Spe that I feel confortable making the switch, especially as Brave Bird is a OHKO on 252 HP Mega Heracross. Granted, that Heracross set isn't common in high level play but it is common in lower level play, which is where I am on the ladder, technically. Defog and Roost need no explaining. I prefer Brave Bird to Counter as it lets me be a little more proactive with Skarmory, and not be entirely reliant on my opponent to deal damage. Also, Counter is really, really awful against Mega Heracross since it only does damage based on the last hit of Rock Blast or Pin Missile, not all 5 hits combined.
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Extra Info and Calcs

0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 204-244 (109 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

yeah that's about all I got for calcs. Skarmory is a pretty standard old hat and at this point most everyone knows what it can do
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Heatran @ Power Herb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 132 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
- Lava Plume
- Solar Beam
- Roar
- Taunt​

Ah, Heatran. This set may look really weird, but the EVs are optimized for lvl 50 play. Lava Plume is standard STAB, Solar Beam is for killing Rotom-W (and non AV Azumarills that are common switch ins as well), Roar is for phazing and Taunt is just generally disruptive. I've found that while I have missed leftovers recovery on Heatran, he still has great bulk just with HP investment, so I'm pretty comfortable using this set. This was the best lure I could come up with for a Stall team.
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Extra Info and Calcs

Alright, let's do some dirty deals here. Assuming the standard 248 HP / 212+ Def / 44 Rotom-W, who runs that speed to outspeed and burn Jolly Azumarill, my EV spread lets me outspeed Rotom-W by 1 point. Next, the actual damage calcs.

132+ SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 33-39 (21.1 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

not very impressive...but then:
132+ SpA Heatran Solar Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 132-156 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

So, assuming the absolute lowest damage roll on both attacks, no SR on his side, and Rotom-W holding Leftovers, the wombo combo does 99% So yeah, chances are Heatran will break right through the Washing Machine. And even if it manages to live (and therefor go up to 7% HP at the end of the turn) I outspeed and KO it with Lava Plume anyways.

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 126-150 (63.6 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I even live the Hydro Pump he fires off after my Solar Beam just barely fails to kill him. Note that these particular calcs were done at lvl 50, at lvl 100 it's 97% rather than 99%, not that it changes much of anything
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Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Heal Bell
- Giga Drain
- Psychic​

Celebi basically deals with everything Shaymin did, except for Hydreigon, but deals better with Keldeo in return. Rotom-W still doesn't bug Celebi at all (except for random Shadow Ball Rotoms...), it's still a grass type cleric, and Recover is definitely better than Synthesis, having more PP and being more reliable. Giga Drain is STAB and heals Celebi extra (Shaymin could have done the same but the extra power on Seed Flare was too strong to give up). Psychic is another STAB that hits Keldeo harder, lets Celebi actually hurt Mega Venusaur, which Shaymin couldn't.
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Extra Calcs and Info

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252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 120-143 (29.7 - 35.3%) -- 18.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 66-79 (16.3 - 19.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Even if Thundurus has Nasty Plot, it needs Life Orb to be able to beat Celebi at +2
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 184-218 (45.5 - 53.9%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Celebi has the same bulk as Shaymin did, so the calcs didn't change, but Celebi has a harder team dealing with Thundurus since it doesn't have Toxic and has to rely on Life Orb recoil to really stall it out. However, switching in Alomomola on a HP Ice or HP Flying should allow it to take the follow up Thunderbolt and Mirror Coat it.

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 96-114 (23.7 - 28.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 103-122 (25.4 - 30.1%) -- 0.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 130-154 (32.1 - 38.1%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 212-252 (65.6 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Celebi Psychic vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 144-170 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- 18.8% chance to 2HKO

So yeah, Keldeo is pretty well taken care of, even SubCM Keldeo. As for Mega Venusaur...

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 222-264 (54.9 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO

So while Celebi isn't an answer to Mega Venusaur, it can win a 1v1 with any variant if the Venusaur switches into Psychic. It won't always win, bad rolls happen, but...it can do it.
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Big Threat:
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Now, one pokemon I've noticed I have some trouble with in particular is Hydreigon. Alomomola can usually deal with it but I need to hope Scald burns (pitiful ~8% damage on each hit) and if Hydreigon has Roost...well, then it'll really take forever to KO it. Immunity to Mirror Coat hurts. Plus, having a Fire Blast that strong means my other two specially defensive pokemon can't really switch in. I'm not sure what I can change to deal with it. Luckily it's not very common, but it's still worth trying to find a solution to. Having put Toxic on Alomomola makes Hydreigon a lot easier to handle. It's still a dangerous pokemon, but a lot less than it used to be.

Finally, here are some replays and an importable of the team. Excuse the low ELO of these, I'm not very high up on the ladder, as you can see. Also some were on an alt that's lower on the ladder still.

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Bunch of Replays

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-149119977
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-149198682
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-149203317
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-149268487
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-149447765
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-149470545
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-149685785
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Importable

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Wish
- Toxic
- Mirror Coat

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Atk / 164 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Zen Headbutt

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Taunt

Heatran @ Power Herb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 136 SpA / 4 SpD / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
- Lava Plume
- Solar Beam
- Roar
- Taunt

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Heal Bell
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
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Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks for reading.​

 

[Scubasage]

Thanks for the suggestions, but unfortunately those changes would break the "run 3 steel types" rule that I have to adhere to, so I can't implement them. There's no steel type clerics either (which makes me quite the sad panda) and since I built the team around using Stalltini and Alomomola I'd rather not switch them out, which leaves me with the last non-steel as the cleric.

SD Bisharp is a problem, but if Skarmory is healthy it's not that big an issue. Victini burns it, Skarm stalls it out.

DD Mega Tyranitar is more of an issue. However, there's not much it can come in on. Skarm can taunt, since it survives even Fire Blast, letting me prevent it from setting up, coming in on Victini has it take a chunk of damage, get burned on the switch in or Taunted on the switch in, and Crunch can't OHKO a healthy Victini without a boost. Heatran can taunt or burn with Lava Plume as it comes in, Mola has to rely on Scald burn but Mola is one of my better answers to it anyways, stalling it out until it boosts +3 or higher. Shaymin can actually come in on the DD, live any hit and Toxic it, in addition to being able to switch in on any attack (Stone Edge has a good chance of 2HKO assuming it hits twice...which, I mean...it's Stone Edge). Finally, Bronzong's Gyro Ball is a 79% chance to 2HKO while Crunch isn't a OHKO, meaning it can't come in on a Gyro Ball from Bronzong. It's certainly a threat that I have to play carefully around, but none of my pokemon are really set up fodder for it, so it's manageable.

 

[Terrakion.]

Ahh, a different stall team.
Firstly, I would switch Bronzong to:

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball
- Protect

Or something similar as for the reason you stated, it usually loses to Defensive Mega Venusaur and / or lack Synthesis which most never do.

Also you have no switch in to Choice Specs Keldeo. Unless you predict perfectly and switch into the appropiate move, Keldeo can also cause some problems as it 2HKOs the majority of your team. As a matter of fact, SubCM Keldeo pretty much screws you over as well. I would suggest Celebi really, despite adding another Psychic as it can still serve as the cleric role, or try to cover your ghost weakness somehow. Unless you are willing to sac something and bring in Alomomola to Mirror Coat, but then again Substitute.

+1 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 207-244 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Alomomola: 249-294 (46.6 - 55%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And with your Hydreigon problem, your best bet would be Chansey or Sylveon. If you are willing to take out Shaymin, Sylveon would be a nice fit. Handles Keldeo pretty well and Hydreigon while still being able to fill the cleric role.
Anyways, an OK team, still room for improvement, good luck :]




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[Scubasage]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm curious about the Bronzong changes though. Is there something specific the EVs are for? Like, what hit does the 48 Def help it survive, does the 208 SpD give it enough bulk to take on Landorus-I with Focus Blast without having to rely on switching in on another attack or having Focus Blast miss? Even then though...the loss of the attack EVs would turn Gyro Ball into a 3HKO without prior damage on Landorus, which means unless Focus Blast becomes a 4HKO (impossible without Assault Vest), Bronzong now loses. Then there's earthquake. I get that its a good physical move, but what targets does it hit? Heatran is the only one that pops out to me, as Bronzong gets lots of Heatran switch ins, but it doesn't help it beat unboosted Thundurus, Talonflame, Volcarona and Mega Pinsir that I either use Bronzong as a possible answer to or that switch in often against him, and Rock Slide deals with all of them. Protect is nice, extra leftovers recovery and burn/toxic stalling is always nice, but I'm not sure I would run it. I don't know if its better than Zen Headbutt.

As for Celebi over Shaymin, that would require me to use stall Bisharp to get a ghost/dark resist. Not really feasible. Celebi does have a better chance against Keldeo though. Can it beat SubCM sets while still being a bulky cleric?

I could technically replace Scald on Alomomola with Toxic to help deal with Hydreigon better, but then any physical pokemon with Taunt forces a switch, and clutch burns on switch ins really do help Mola stay healthy. But that would also give me a more reliable way to beat Greninja, as Greninja with Dark Pulse is like a less bulky Hydreigon :/

EDIT: Been testing Toxic > Scald on Alomomola and Celebi > Shaymin. I'm kinda sad Celebi doesn't get Psyshock but eh, Celebi still beats Keldeo pretty easily. Dark/Ghost moves are relatively uncommon now that Aegislash is gone. Definitely liking Celebi...though I will miss the cute little flower bush.

Toxic > Scald I'm still not sold on. Same for Protect > Zen Headbutt. Will need to do more testing.

 

[Aragorn the King]

The first major problem I see is the title; it should say pixies instead of pixie :)

Just kidding of course; there are no major problems with the team at first glance. However, you've said that Heatran is expendable, so I'll just ignore it while rating and see if I can find a better fit. Also, just a note, EV spreads I mention are for level 100 matches. Sorry if that's annoying, but I'm sure it's nothing you can't fix. :)

First, Alomomola. MirrorMola, the set you're running, is actually a bit outdated. Brankflakes popularized the set awhile ago, and now it's basically what everyone thinks about Alomomola. It needs the surprise factor to be effective, and since it's lost that, it really isn't great. Additionally, without Scald, you're setup bait for physical attackers like Mega Scizor. I believe replacing Mirror Coat with Scald would benefit your team, since it allows Fish to burn Pokemon that try to set up on it, and sacrifices nothing, since MirrorMola is too niche and outdated in general. Lastly, on a Pokemon with huge HP and mediocre defenses, it's generally best to invest in the defenses. It will make your wishes a bit small, but they're still huge. 36 HP / 220 Def / 252 SpD with a Calm nature is the general best spread, as it improves its chance against Charizard-X, while sacrificing little to no necessary special bulk, especially once/if you remove Mirror Coat.

Next, I love that you're using StallTini. I love love love using it, since it's a fail-proof check to Mega Gardevoir, Mega Medicham, and Mega Charizard-Y. I personally use a different spread: 248 HP / 64 Atk / 68 Def / 4 SpD / 124 Spe with an Adamant nature. This spread is very weird, but it does what I need it to do. It outspeeds Jolly Mega Tyranitar and everything slower, including Breloom + Bisharp, avoids the 2HKO from Mega Medicham's HJK, and OHKOs Mega Medicham with V-Create. Feel free to use or not use this fun little spread I like.

Bronzong is also a cool Pokemon in OU. I haven't used it a lot, since it's only recently become viable, so I know a lot less about it. Your spread beats Landorus + Gardevoir reliably, so I don't see any real problems with it. EQ is a cool move, and I truthfully don't see the point of Rock Slide, since it's incredibly weak, and you already have mon for Talon. Play around with it, and I will too, since I'm not 100% sure of its set.

Your Skarmory set is interesting, to say the least. Zero speed Heracross in non-existent, at least on PS, so I kinda think the Speed EVs are wasted. I'd rather just eight speed and the rest in defense, but I guess that's just me. Also, I prefer counter over brave bird, since it allows it to beat Bisharp, who it can't scratch with Brave Bird. Counter OHKOs Mega Heracross, so you won't have to worry about that. Having to take a BB is rough, but in general Heracross outspeeds Skarmory anyway, so at least Skarm won't have to take recoil with counter. Also, I prefer the passive recovery of leftovers over rocky helmet, but that may be just me. Take your pick.

Celebi is cool mon, since it checks Lando and counters Keldeo. I'd just make the HP investment 248 to take SR better.

Okay, so now I'm gonna look at this five mon team and see if I see any issues. The first thing I see is a weakness to Nasty Plot Thundurus and Double Dance Thundurus-T. You're only Electric resist is Celebi, who happens to be hit super effectively by Ice and Flying. Additionally, its Psychic is rather weak, so it won't threaten Thundy that much. A Thundurus + Manectric, so basically an Electric-type with coverage, is really all I see. Your limitations are annoying, since Mega Ampharos or Raikou. But, I think I may have something - Magnezone. Magnezone beats Thundurus so long as it isn't using Focus Miss, and if it is, it probably isn't using Nasty Plot, which is the set that troubles you. Bulky AV Excadrill would also be cool, however it also struggles with Focus Blast.

A final possibility would be using Ferrothorn > Celebi. You gain Leech Seed, in spite of losing out on recover. However, this provides you with your third Steel-type, which would allow you to use AV Raikou or Mega Ampharos instead of Heatran. Experiment with these things I suggested, hopefully they all/some work out for you! Good luck! :)

 

[Scubasage]

The first major problem I see is the title; it should say pixies instead of pixie :)

First, Alomomola. MirrorMola, the set you're running, is actually a bit outdated. Brankflakes popularized the set awhile ago, and now it's basically what everyone thinks about Alomomola. It needs the surprise factor to be effective, and since it's lost that, it really isn't great. Additionally, without Scald, you're setup bait for physical attackers like Mega Scizor. I believe replacing Mirror Coat with Scald would benefit your team, since it allows Fish to burn Pokemon that try to set up on it, and sacrifices nothing, since MirrorMola is too niche and outdated in general. Lastly, on a Pokemon with huge HP and mediocre defenses, it's generally best to invest in the defenses. It will make your wishes a bit small, but they're still huge. 36 HP / 220 Def / 252 SpD with a Calm nature is the general best spread, as it improves its chance against Charizard-X, while sacrificing little to no necessary special bulk, especially once/if you remove Mirror Coat.

Well at the time there was really only one pixie, but I guess I should change it :P

Mirror Mola might be more common and less surprising at higher levels on the ladder, but honestly, it's net me at least one KO in pretty much every match of played. There was one memorable battle (I wish I saved the replay) where it got me 3 KOs. Yeah, bad players, I know, but well, I play mostly bad players given my place on the ladder. Even with good players, the threat of Mirror Coat will force them to play around it, and not only will that restrict how they use certain pokemon, but Mirror Coat might get the KO anyways, since they might end up with no other choice but to hope they can break through somehow. Your spread provides 240 HP wishes, which is pretty close to the 267 my spread has, but your spread means I lose to Charizard Y most of the time, instead of being able to beat it most of the time :\

Next, I love that you're using StallTini. I love love love using it, since it's a fail-proof check to Mega Gardevoir, Mega Medicham, and Mega Charizard-Y. I personally use a different spread: 248 HP / 64 Atk / 68 Def / 4 SpD / 124 Spe with an Adamant nature. This spread is very weird, but it does what I need it to do. It outspeeds Jolly Mega Tyranitar and everything slower, including Breloom + Bisharp, avoids the 2HKO from Mega Medicham's HJK, and OHKOs Mega Medicham with V-Create. Feel free to use or not use this fun little spread I like.

So less power for more bulk. Interesting. I'll try it out. I can't think of anything that power is really needed for, so the extra bulk is handy.

Bronzong is also a cool Pokemon in OU. I haven't used it a lot, since it's only recently become viable, so I know a lot less about it. Your spread beats Landorus + Gardevoir reliably, so I don't see any real problems with it. EQ is a cool move, and I truthfully don't see the point of Rock Slide, since it's incredibly weak, and you already have mon for Talon. Play around with it, and I will too, since I'm not 100% sure of its set.

92 Atk Bronzong Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 146-172 (48.6 - 57.3%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO

92 Atk Bronzong Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 184-220 (67.8 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

92 Atk Bronzong Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 288-340 (96.6 - 114%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

92 Atk Bronzong Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 308-364 (98.7 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

4 common situations (Volcarona less common, but every time I've faced one it always tries to come in on Bronzong) for why I'm using Rock Slide. It beats Pinsir after SR, it beats Thundurus if Thundy switches in, regardless if Thundurus tries to boost or not. Meanwhile, Earthquake might be a nice chunk stronger...but what does it hit? Seems to me like people are just running it on Bronzong cause it's Earthquake. As I said before, the only thing I can think of is Heatran. Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, all of them aren't hit strongly by either attack, Bisharp KOs before being hit, and even then

92 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 146-172 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

There's Mawile, but Bronzong wouldn't stay to fight Mawile, and even if it does

92 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 120-142 (49.7 - 58.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

That's a 0 HP Mawile without intimidate factored in. Aegislash is gone, so no need to worry about hitting it. Doublade is a thing, yes, but it's much less threatening and I have other pokemon who can deal with it. Excadrill?

92 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 218-258 (60.2 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mold Breaker EQ kills it. It does do well against Sand Rush variants though. Unless they have Air Balloon, in which case a single Iron Head flinch means they beat Bronzong (assuming they SD as I switch Bronzong in, +2 Iron Head is a 3HKO).

Your Skarmory set is interesting, to say the least. Zero speed Heracross in non-existent, at least on PS, so I kinda think the Speed EVs are wasted. I'd rather just eight speed and the rest in defense, but I guess that's just me. Also, I prefer counter over brave bird, since it allows it to beat Bisharp, who it can't scratch with Brave Bird. Counter OHKOs Mega Heracross, so you won't have to worry about that. Having to take a BB is rough, but in general Heracross outspeeds Skarmory anyway, so at least Skarm won't have to take recoil with counter. Also, I prefer the passive recovery of leftovers over rocky helmet, but that may be just me. Take your pick.

4 Speed Heracross is used something like 60-70% of the time on showdown, in the unweighted stats. The lower down the ladder you go, the more likely it is to find no speed Heracross. Even going as low as 1695 stats instead of 1860 stats puts 4 Speed Heracross about 2% less popular than Heracross with speed, and 1500 stats already have 4 Speed (0 speed, actually) Heracross as the most popular. Given that I'm low on the ladder to begin with, I feel it's a decent meta call to try and beat Mega Heracrosses. Counter OHKOs Mega Heracross if it uses CC, if it uses Rock Blast it doesn't scratch it. Like I said in the OP though, I like allowing Skarmory to be proactive. Rocky Helmet also lets me roost stall out pokemon with Taunt.

Celebi is cool mon, since it checks Lando and counters Keldeo. I'd just make the HP investment 248 to take SR better.

Yeah, I forgot about that, thanks.

Okay, so now I'm gonna look at this five mon team and see if I see any issues. The first thing I see is a weakness to Nasty Plot Thundurus and Double Dance Thundurus-T. You're only Electric resist is Celebi, who happens to be hit super effectively by Ice and Flying. Additionally, its Psychic is rather weak, so it won't threaten Thundy that much. A Thundurus + Manectric, so basically an Electric-type with coverage, is really all I see. Your limitations are annoying, since Mega Ampharos or Raikou. But, I think I may have something - Magnezone. Magnezone beats Thundurus so long as it isn't using Focus Miss, and if it is, it probably isn't using Nasty Plot, which is the set that troubles you. Bulky AV Excadrill would also be cool, however it also struggles with Focus Blast.

A final possibility would be using Ferrothorn > Celebi. You gain Leech Seed, in spite of losing out on recover. However, this provides you with your third Steel-type, which would allow you to use AV Raikou or Mega Ampharos instead of Heatran. Experiment with these things I suggested, hopefully they all/some work out for you! Good luck! :)

Ferrothorn > Celebi wouldn't work, as then I lose my cleric. However, Magnezone might work. The only thing that worries me is that it needs a boosting item to OHKO Thundurus.

252+ SpA Analytic Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 253-298 (84.3 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So say I switch Magnezone in on the Nasty Plot. Their Thunderbolt is now a 2HKO and so is mine...and they're obviously faster. Unless, Assault Vest Magnezone, perhaps? Thunderbolt, Volt Switch, Flash Cannon and then Hidden Power Fire? AV Magnezone would also allow me to run Magnet Pull instead of Analytic while still dealing with Thundurus. Thundurus-T poses a problem though...Volt Absorb means I can't really beat it with Magnezone, unless I use Hidden Power Ice. And if I'm using Hidden Power Ice, then I should go with Analytic since I can't trap and kill Scizor, Ferrothorn and Forretress anymore, leaving my only real target as Skarmory. Thoughts?

 

[Aragorn the King]

Well at the time there was really only one pixie, but I guess I should change it :P

lol

Mirror Mola might be more common and less surprising at higher levels on the ladder, but honestly, it's net me at least one KO in pretty much every match of played. There was one memorable battle (I wish I saved the replay) where it got me 3 KOs. Yeah, bad players, I know, but well, I play mostly bad players given my place on the ladder. Even with good players, the threat of Mirror Coat will force them to play around it, and not only will that restrict how they use certain pokemon, but Mirror Coat might get the KO anyways, since they might end up with no other choice but to hope they can break through somehow. Your spread provides 240 HP wishes, which is pretty close to the 267 my spread has, but your spread means I lose to Charizard Y most of the time, instead of being able to beat it most of the time :\

Of course, do as you wish. Sorry, unintended pun. Anyway, without Scald, I find it setup fodder for Mega Scizor, which is dangerous. Also, you have Victini for Charizard-Y, so something else to beat it isn't that necessary imo.

So less power for more bulk. Interesting. I'll try it out. I can't think of anything that power is really needed for, so the extra bulk is handy.

Yeah. Avoiding the 2hko from cham is really handy.

92 Atk Bronzong Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 146-172 (48.6 - 57.3%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO

92 Atk Bronzong Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 184-220 (67.8 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

92 Atk Bronzong Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 288-340 (96.6 - 114%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

92 Atk Bronzong Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 308-364 (98.7 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

4 common situations (Volcarona less common, but every time I've faced one it always tries to come in on Bronzong) for why I'm using Rock Slide. It beats Pinsir after SR, it beats Thundurus if Thundy switches in, regardless if Thundurus tries to boost or not. Meanwhile, Earthquake might be a nice chunk stronger...but what does it hit? Seems to me like people are just running it on Bronzong cause it's Earthquake. As I said before, the only thing I can think of is Heatran. Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, all of them aren't hit strongly by either attack, Bisharp KOs before being hit, and even then

That's fair, I guess Rock Slide does have some utility. I still don't really see it for Zen Headbutt, though.

92 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 146-172 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

There's Mawile, but Bronzong wouldn't stay to fight Mawile, and even if it does

92 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 120-142 (49.7 - 58.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

That's a 0 HP Mawile without intimidate factored in. Aegislash is gone, so no need to worry about hitting it. Doublade is a thing, yes, but it's much less threatening and I have other pokemon who can deal with it. Excadrill?

92 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 218-258 (60.2 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mold Breaker EQ kills it. It does do well against Sand Rush variants though. Unless they have Air Balloon, in which case a single Iron Head flinch means they beat Bronzong (assuming they SD as I switch Bronzong in, +2 Iron Head is a 3HKO).

True. Bronzong is great v. Sandy Drill, which is part of why I like Bronzong.

4 Speed Heracross is used something like 60-70% of the time on showdown, in the unweighted stats. The lower down the ladder you go, the more likely it is to find no speed Heracross. Even going as low as 1695 stats instead of 1860 stats puts 4 Speed Heracross about 2% less popular than Heracross with speed, and 1500 stats already have 4 Speed (0 speed, actually) Heracross as the most popular. Given that I'm low on the ladder to begin with, I feel it's a decent meta call to try and beat Mega Heracrosses. Counter OHKOs Mega Heracross if it uses CC, if it uses Rock Blast it doesn't scratch it. Like I said in the OP though, I like allowing Skarmory to be proactive. Rocky Helmet also lets me roost stall out pokemon with Taunt.

Ok. You seem to like how Skarm is, so I won't touch it.

Yeah, I forgot about that, thanks.

Np

Ferrothorn > Celebi wouldn't work, as then I lose my cleric. However, Magnezone might work. The only thing that worries me is that it needs a boosting item to OHKO Thundurus.

252+ SpA Analytic Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 253-298 (84.3 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So say I switch Magnezone in on the Nasty Plot. Their Thunderbolt is now a 2HKO and so is mine...and they're obviously faster. Unless, Assault Vest Magnezone, perhaps? Thunderbolt, Volt Switch, Flash Cannon and then Hidden Power Fire? AV Magnezone would also allow me to run Magnet Pull instead of Analytic while still dealing with Thundurus. Thundurus-T poses a problem though...Volt Absorb means I can't really beat it with Magnezone, unless I use Hidden Power Ice. And if I'm using Hidden Power Ice, then I should go with Analytic since I can't trap and kill Scizor, Ferrothorn and Forretress anymore, leaving my only real target as Skarmory. Thoughts?

I only brought up Magnezone because of your restriction - I've never used StallZone, lol. AV Magnezone does seem to be a possibility, since it's rather bulky and needs no support moves. You in general can assume SR for calcs, since Bronzong is a reliable setter of it, and it probably should be up when Thundy comes out. In that case, unboosted Magnezone has a small chance to OHKO after rocks. I'm really not sure if it's the best thing to use, but it seems better than Heatran. Sorry that I can't really say more than this - I'm stuck. I'll keep thinking though.

 

[Scubasage]

Even with Scald, Mola is set up bait for Mega Scizor. It does hardly any damage at all, they boost up to +6 and then roost to get back the health they lost from the burn. I'd rather just use Victini to threaten it out.

I could replace Zen Headbutt with Earthquake to better deal with Heatran and non balloon Sand Rush Excadrill. Ill test that out.

And while Bronzong is pretty reliable as a sneaky pebbles user, I don't just blindly lead with him and and get up rocks right away, I usually wait until I can get a semi free turn to do so. So its possible that Thundy comes out without prior damage.

It wouldn't really be stallzone anyways, its just bulky zone replacing lefties with Assault Vest to be able to beat a specific threat for the team :P

 

[Scubasage]

Bump.

Been testing AV Magnezone extensively and it's alright. I don't know if it's better than standard Heatran, which I could probably easily use since Celebi really does take care of Rotom-W well. No need for

Taunt Gliscor is a huge pain, especially if it has Knock Off, since atm Magnezone is the only one who can do anything and it loses to EQ. Any ideas for what I can do to help better deal with Gliscor?