The Steel Gym

THE STEEL GYM


Hey Smogon! On another Perth based Pokemon community you can find in my signature, we have this Gym Leader challenge, and my friend asked me for help with his Steel Gym. Now I’ve done a bit of testing but found it faces a couple of problems, obviously no mono-typed team can be perfect but I’ll aim to get as close as I can.

One thing I’ll point out to give rating guidelines is that everything in this team has to have a Steel typing somewhere, and no wildcards are allowed. Also it's quite easy to use bulky offense especially for my mate as it's quite fail safe, and even though it's hard to shy away from that with a mono-steel team, keeping to that theme will be preferable, but by all means suggest what you need to for making this team work Ok onto the team building process!


TeamBuilding Process:


First of all when making mono-typed team you consider the common weaknesses and aim to alleviate them. As such I initially chose the two levitators, Bronzong and Skarmory to cover up the ground weakness.

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Next, Fire needed the cover up. The two who offered this were Heatran and Empoleon, and with quite different roles I didn’t see why I should put both in there even though Fire is less common.

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I was quite happy with this, seeing here we already have 2 pokemon to resist the last weakness which is Fighting, however; Skarmory takes a beating from Electric attacks which aren't really covered up anywhere. As such I thought Magnezone would make a good Electric resist and a good Choice Scarf candidate.

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The spot for a lead me to Metagross, he's bulky and will set up those Stealth Rocks nicely, and could get in a revenge kill with Bullet Punch somewhere, as priority is something the team lacked. So I chucked in Metagross.

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I looked at the team and noticed a couple of flaws, as any first compile would do. A weakness to Gyarados and Salamence is something I normally take into account in the building stage but still this team is weak to it. I decided to change Bronzong to the lead spot and leaving out Metagross, and chucking in Choice Scarf Jirachi with max Speed and Jolly. It also became apparent the only way to run Empoleon would be Agility, to outrun those threats.

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Looking at that, I’ve been quite satisfied with it. However I’ve tried out Choice Band Scizor in there, and I just love that pokemon, but every spot is really quite vital and I don't know where to put it. I've also considered having Lucario over Empoleon as the late game sweeper, considering Heatran still resists Fire although uncommon, and Jirachi with the Choice Scarf outpaces many threats anyway. However, Empoleon is a reliable sponge, and I’ve tried more bulky sets with Leftovers with Agility to achieve that so it's quite hard to rule out. A big problem the team has is Rotom-A, as it can rip through most of the team. Because of this I’m tempted to use Trick + Iron Ball Metagross but I don't know where to put it in, it's tempting over Magnezone who now functions as a quick Substitute user. But I need to get some opinions on that matter.


The Team in Depth:



bronzong.png







Bronzong
----
Item: Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP / 86 Atk / 60 Def / 92 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
----
~ Gyro Ball
~ Earthquake
~ Explosion
~ Stealth Rock​




Bronzong does well as a lead and a vital Ground resist this team needs. He sets up rocks easy too, which helps out the sweepers, but Taunt annoys him even though it can come back later. I don't really see a need to change anything from the standard set, as some Earthquake coverage is nice, and Exploding doesn't make it set-up fodder, such as versus Gyarados. Gyro Ball is handy for OHKO’ing Gengar, because he can be annoying to switch on.


skarmory.png






Skarmory
----
Item: Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 192 Def
----
~ Brave Bird
~ Roost
~ Spikes
~ Whirlwind​




Skarmory makes sweeping easier once a couple of layers of Spikes are up, and Whirlwinding is often my way of weeding in the damage before a final sweep. It sponges many threats like Metagross, who are quite annoying to switch in on, as I don't want to waste Heatran's Shuca Berry outright, plus they may often have a Salamence in the wings. His Ground immunity rocks too.


heatran.png






Heatran
----
Item: Shuca Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
----
~ Flamethrower
~ Earth Power
~ Hidden Power Ice
~ Taunt​




This is basically just the Life Orb set but tweaked for what I need Heatran to do. Being paranoid of Salamence makes a Shuca Berry and Hidden Power Ice good options. Flamethrower is more reliable and considering it's the only solid Fire user it's quite essential it hits what it aims for, because Scizor can be a pain without Heatran. The Shuca Berry also helps out against other Heatran, letting me get the KO and living their Earth Power. Taunt is good for Blissey that come in, and then I can switch to something else like Jirachi, but I stay in to see if it has Flamethrower some times after constantly making the switch to Jirachi, as it gets pretty predictable.


magnezone.png






Magnezone
----
Item: Leftovers
Trait: Magnet Pull
Nature: Timid
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
----
~ Thunderbolt
~ Hidden Power Fire
~ Substitute
~ Magnet Rise​




Four more EVs in speed are needed to make up for the imperfect Speed IV needed for Hidden Power Fire, just to clear that one up. Apart from that, this is standard Steel Killer Magnezone with Hidden Power Fire over Grass, as that's not really needed. I can set up on Swampert with Skarmory anyway, and get an easy OHKO with Empoleon via Grass Knot if I come in on something besides Earthquake. Substitute on switches and Magnet Rise helps with more Ground resistance. I'm not a fan of Explosion as it doesn't really do much with Magnezone, and he's often needed time and again for many threats and sponging his many resists.


jirachi.png






Jirachi
----
Item: Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
----
~ Iron Head
~ Ice Punch
~ Thunderpunch
~ U-turn​




This is like the glue to the team I believe, what others fail to achieve Jirachi cleans up with his good Speed + coverage. I don't need Fire Punch, as I already have Heatran's Flamethrower and Magnezone's Hidden Power Fire, so the other elemental punches for Gyarados and Salamence are best. Iron Head is good for optimistic flinching and can often get me out of sticky situations. U-turn is good for scouting but it's hard to resist what Jirachi gets hit by and be able to hit back with that pokemon, but none-the-less is a sick move.


empoleon.png






Empoleon
----
Item: Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
Nature: Modest
EVs: 236 HP / 40 SpA / 232 Spe
----
~ Surf
~ Ice Beam
~ Grass Knot
~ Agility​




It should be a late game sweeper, but it often comes in to take hits with its many resistances, like 13 IIRC. Getting the Agility up is quite easy - hitting the same speed as the analysis recommends, mainly for Heatran - and having a high HP (largest Leftovers number) lets it come back in quite a few times to do this. Even with the low Special Attack investment, Ice Beam OHKO's Salamence even without Stealth Rock. However, this doesn't really hit Gyarados that hard, it does 33.23% - 39.27% to standard Offensive Dragon Dance sets and shocking to Bulky, but I have Jirachi to cover this up anyway, plus it often fears the possibility of Hidden Power Electric so instead tries against Bronzong, often getting Exploded on. Speaking of which, I tested out Hidden Power Electric over Grass Knot but I need Grass Knot to get like Suicune and what not, and it's only 10 BP less versus Vaporeon who doesn't do jack without Hidden Power Electric itself. I contemplated it over Agility however, then having less Speed EVs and more Special Attack, but the Speed jump on random threats is hard to pass up.


ALTERNATE POKEMON



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Metagross
----
Item: Iron Ball
Trait: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
----
~ Meteor Mash
~ Bullet Punch
~ Earthquake
~ Trick​




This is a really tempting option for the team but I’ve got 6 Pokemon syndrome, seriously 7 members would make this easier. The main reason this would be good is a shocking Rotom-A weakness, so Tricking and Iron Ball would rid it of Leftovers recovery and ground it, meaning I can Earthquake it for super effective damage, or just generally screw up any pokemon. Bullet Punches priority is also really nice to have too plus isn't hindered by Iron Ball. There's not really room for Explosion though it'd be pretty cool, but I replacer Meteor Mash, or even Bullet Punch; but it's not convincing enough for me to change the set.


Last Words:


Well that's the team, you may see the problems I'm facing, which is mainly just the Rotom-A issue *shakes fist* so I’ll get to testing Metagross in there more but it really is hard to pass up a Pokemon. Love, Hate, Rate, Steal (or Steel :P). Yeah it’s lame I know. Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance!
 
O.K I fiddled with the team and came up with the same pokemon that you did lol.

Firstly I believe that Empoleon works best in the lead spot. I it is better than Bronzong which gets too easily taunted anyway.

Next I think that Skarmory should run the set its running now, except is prob worth running max Special defense so that you can survive special attacks better.

Next up is Bronzong. I suggest a Duel Srean set as i think it is your best bet with a Mono steel team, Fire and Ground attacks will overwhelm you otherwise.

Jirachi I am not sure on, on a Duel screan team ideally you do not want choiced pokemon but i am not sure if it is too risky to go without a scarfer especially as this duel screan team works differently than most (ie it runs spikes and the duel screener is not a fast pokemon nor a lead). You may need to test and see if Jirachi is needed, if it is not a Lucario could work for it or Jirachi could stay with a CM wish set or a Physical mixed sweeper instead.

Heatran is O.K but I am not sure if a Torment tran (to abuse spikes) or a HEATrap set could work (to catch Heatran counters and then switch out and have ther pokemon deal with them).

Lastly I suggest an AgiliGross or a SD Lucario in the last spot to take advantage of Duel screans and potentially sweep.


Well I hope I helped or at least gave you ideas lol.

If you don't like the Duel Screen Idea thats fine, say it outright I all suggest something else (I already have other ideas as I love a challenge lol)

Feel free to PM me to discuss this at all if you want

Have a Nice Day!
 
That seems like quite a good idea man, having Dual Screens up for a Lucario will alleviate the Rotom-A counter nicely considering it'll get the chance to Swords Dance. Although a Burn will be piss annoying... Maybey a Lum Berry on it? I'll test it out...

Now to be brutally honest with you here, i've actually never used a typical Dual Screen team as such before. Only just a partnership of Dual Screen Bronzong with DD Kingdra backed with a Metagross lead and CeleTranPert core. Which was sick BTW...

If you say that this team is unorthodox because of not leading with the Dual Screener then should I simply change Bronzong's set to Dual Screen? If so i could replace Empoleon for SD Lucario and might even use another Dual Screener in Jirachi.

First up I will test the team you have suggested, so thanks a tonne for that, hopefully i'll hear back from you soon. Thanks a lot ginganinja, you seem to have helped a lot of people around here ^_^
 
Lol thanks but I owe a lot to you guys as when I rate teams I learn from them and hving OPs run nice RMT threads encourage me to continue to RMT teams. Yes you could run a duel screan set on Bronzong but Jirachi should lead with Duel Screens as Bronzong gets Taunted far too easily and lol, safeguard for a burn problem?

G'nite as im very tirrrred so ill catch up with you later 2day
Have a Nice Day/Night!
 
With a gym, I find that surprise is the best tactic, as the team is monotype which puts it at a big disadvanatage, but something like using a sword dance empoleon to draw out an agility metagross counter etc. But something like that always helps. Or a specs lucario to draw out SD scizor counters

But the team looks very solid, as far as monotype team go, I just think it will be predited around and beaten by an average team, without the "surprise" factor.
 
I think you may want a Swords Dance Scizor as a late game sweeper. When people see a steel mono-type team, they predict the obvious. while seeing Swords Dance Lucario is obvious, Swords Dance Scizor: not so much.

A scizor with the life orb, and swords Dance, Bug Bite, Super Power and Bullet Punch can deal pretty hefty damage to a wide variety of pokemon. Also, Bullet Punch deals massive damage to anything that is nuetral to it while Bug Bite does more damage it you move first, and with 252 eV's in speed, you should.

Besides scizor, there is nothing else I can suggest. scizor is after all my favorite OU pokemon. Lucario may be better, but Scizor has sTAB technician Bullet Punch.

I don't know that much about steel types and I probably wasn't too much help. Sorry XD.
-Marble101
 
The first thing I noticed is an absolutely massive weakness to Infernape. The only thing fast enough to take him out is your Jirachi, which won't do much except pray that you can flinch kill it with the 4HKO Iron Head. Sure you have a 60% chance every time to make it flinch, but the chance to flinch it 3 times in a row in reality is more around a 21.6% chance. So, to eliminate all possibilty of a sweep I'd suggest this little change.

Jirachi
@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Naive
EVs: 232 Atk / 24 SpA / 252 Spe
----
~ Iron Head
~ Ice Punch
~ Psychic

~ U-turn

This way you can bring Jirachi in to Revenge Kill any of your pokes, and that little boost in SpA guarentees an OHKO, while still keeping Jirachi's Attack high enough to get some other important revenge KO's.

The Thunderpunch won't be missed since your Bronzong can OHKO Gyarados that try to set up with Explosion, and your Magnezone is not OHKO'd by a single Dragon Dance Boosted Waterfall, so bringing him in on the DD will guarantee a stop to the attempted sweep. But be aware, that the Magnezone response does take out a VERY hefty chunk of HP... So it's more realistic to assume that both suicide against the big blue (pseudo)dragon.
 
Hello

First of all you should change your Magnezone. Hidden Power Fire is only needed to take care of Scizor, and this team doesn't worry to much about Scizor (until it gets wise and uses Superpower, but Hidden Power Fire won't help you there.) Use HP Ice instead. Second of all, Magnet Rise isn't that good, use Charge Beam and actually get to sweep a bit.

Magnezone @ Leftovers
40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid
-Charge Beam
-Substitute
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Ice

Secondly, this team has an incredible weakness to SkarmBliss. Use WishCM Jirachi to alleviate this as well as your stall weakness in general.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
232 HP / 236 Def / 40 Spe
Bold
-Wish
-Calm Mind
-Psychic
-Thunderbolt

This leaves you without a revenge killer, however. But right now, your Heatran doesn't seem to be doing much. Why not give it a Scarf?

Heatran @ Scarf
Naive
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-HP Ice
-Explosion

Finally, most mono-teams use a wild card. You need to take advantage of that for this team to be effective. Use Gyarados: it patches up your Infernape weaknesses and laughs at the Ground, Fire, and Fighting type attacks that will hurt your pokemon. Use it over Empoleon.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Impish
248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
-Waterfall
-Roar
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
 
@george: I agree, Lucario will be quite obvious so i'll take the idea of SD scizor on board. Although, it'll need to counter a Rotom-A because that's the reason it's spot gets a mention. I could try out Pursuit or even Night Slash if thew OHKO isn't certain.

@thevalkyries: that's a really good point, i've never though of that! It'll also help with Machamp too so i'll test it out if i don't like the idea of the other Jirachi sets (CM Stall breaker / dual screener)

@TheAmazingFlygon: The whole reason Iron Ball is used is because it will get rid of levitate on a Rotom-A who does well versus this team. Through that, i'll likely obtain leftovers, or even a choice scarf to incapacitate something else with. Then when it's grounded I can earthquake for super effective damage, same deal versus Skarmory and Breonzong too. BTW though, i'm not keen on using the metagross anymore, dual screens with Lucario is turning out well as a Rotom-A counter.

@zach: I agree with a few of those changes. Magnezone does seem like a logical change so i'll try that one out. Jirachi acting as a stall breaker seems like a good idea although Lucario can do that too. Either way i'll test it out, as Wish support seems like a good idea. On heatran though it does do a good job, i'll only consider Choice Scarf if I end up disliking the idea of Dual Screens, as his stupid weaknesses are covered up, so having the freedom to switch between more powerful attacks is good, and i'm liking how it runs in Dual Screens.

Believe me when i say Gyarados would COMPLETE the team. The shame is in case you missed where i wrote it, there are no wildcards allowed in the challenge. It's not primarilly run on Shoddy so it's not an issue to shy from the norm. Plus it makes it more interesting and challenging but cheers for the heads up on Gyarados anyway.

Well that's some amazing feedback i've gotten so far. I'll get back on this friday as I'm currently in religion class and obviously not allowed, lol. I'll finish my testing and update the OP then. Thanks for the help so far and any more to come in advance!!!
 
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