The Twilight Zone (OU RMT)

bubbly

il_570xN.143108487.jpg



I posted a retirement team a while back, which was kinda stupid because three days after that I got sick of using the same old team, like, over and over again, for three whole days. So I made this team, inspired by my new avatar (who is very pleased to meet you by the way).
260.png
94.png
497.png
248.png
130.png
467.png


This set up was doing okay but had some significant problems which I couldn't get around with changing the entire core of the team. So I did :) Thanks a lot to both Smith and Faladran in particular for their suggestions.
260.png
503.png
497.png
248.png
130.png
385.png



In Detail

260.png

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Roar
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

I've used pretty much every common OU lead and can say that Swampert is probably my favourite for setting up Stealth Rock safely. I find it especially useful at the present stage in the lead metagame as Machamp's popularity lessens, since Swampert does fairly well against LO Heatran and some other leads which have been popularised to deal with Machamp. Azelf, of course, still make Swampert's job much harder, although Tyranitar is a fairly good switch in for me to avoid Taunt.

That said, Swampert was the last addition to my team and it wasn't an easy one to make, as it doesn't add as much to my team synergistically as I'd hoped. The main problem I wanted to keep in mind was Starmie, who despite being possibly the most stupid design for a starfish I've ever seen, is a menace, and consequently ruled out Heatran. Swampert isn't that much better, being easily 2HKO'd by LO Hydro Pump, so I'm actually pretty open to changes here.

Celebi was one thing I was considering, as I cover Heatran and Scizor pretty well and its paralysis support, along with the SR it can give me in most cases, is very beneficial for my other members.
Celebi would also keep some of Swampert's usefulness for my team in shutting down Gyarados and Kingdra, neither of which I beat as comfortably as I'd like. Unfortunately, though, it makes me incredibly vulnerable to Infernape, so if someone could suggest an alternative that would be great. Plus, Swampert's pseudo hazing has been invaluable on occasion.


503.png

Rotom-W (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Trick

This was originally a Gengar and is now a Rotom-W. Rotom is my team's insurance against threats which I would otherwise have serious issues with, such as Nasty Plot Infernape, while also allowing me to cripple stall teams, and providing me with numerous useful immunities and resistances.

497.png

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Leech Seed
This was originally a Scarf Shaymin, but with the addition of Rotom to the team, it now holds a more defensive role, giving me a reliable way to take out bulky waters and Starmie if I don't switch in to Ice beam.

248.png


Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aqua Tail
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit

This was originally a Life Orb DD Tyranitar, however, with the removal of Gengar and Magnezone from the team, it was becoming obsolete in that position so I changed to a bulkier CB set. Teams well with both Gyarados and Jirachi.

130.png

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge

This is a standard bulky Gyarados, allowing me to beat Infernape, Lucario, Breloom and Machamp fairly comfortably, all of which are otherwise dangerous. As such, especially given its SR weakness, Gyarados is occasionally overstretched, and, since I'm generally a kind and gentle master, I'd like to give him some more support if possible. Intimidate is superb as per usual, while he fits into the same kind of category as Tyranitar after I'm sure he has no more significant threats to check; that is, Dragon Dancing to force things like Rotom-A to come in (actually I normally just double switch straight to Gengar or Tyranitar until later on in the match). EV's and Leftovers are standard and essential for keeping him alive as long as necessary.
Type wise, Gyarados feels right at home in my team. He can resist every type in the game alongside Magnezone, whilst he also has great synergy with Tyranitar and Shaymin. His ability to switch in and set up on many of the threats to my team allows me to maintain offensive momentum throughout a match.

385.png


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic

Magnezone has been replaced by a CM Wish Jirachi.

Conclusion and Threats

Overall this is one of my favourite teams to use at the moment. I can't get on Pokemon Online at the moment but I think I made it up to #85 after laddering for about an hour or so and was still winning about 70% of my games. Unfortunately, there are obviously a number of problems which I don't have any sufficient way of dealing with, so any help with these would be great.

NOTE: Not updated

497.png
The problem with Shaymin is that there really is no decent counter for it. You basically have to know the set and Hidden Power to wall it. As it stands, I have to try and pretend that I'm not overly troubled by Shaymin and convince the opponent to let it die cheaply. I seriously NEED to find a way to beat it.
121.png
My own Shaymin is the only thing stopping Starmie from breaking me in half and using me as a toothpick. Need help.
245.png
See Starmie. At least it doesn't hit as hard off the bat so Swampert can comfortably pseudohaze.
130.png
If it has Earthquake, only Shaymin and Swampert can beat it. This might be acceptable if I didn't need Shaymin for so much other stuff.
 
Hi, nice team. There several ways to deal with these threats, but I just can't think of who to replace. Anyways, a scarfed Metagross can beat all four of those threats, unless Gyarados happens to be jolly. If you don't want to scarf Metagross, a specially defensive Scizor can counter HP Fire-less Shaymin (most LO ones). Though you do fall to the leech seeder who almost always runs HP fire. Scizor also beats Starmie by checking it or by switching into an ice beam or t-bolt. SpD Scizor also counters Gengar (barring a SpD drop) who might also be troublesome to this team. However Scizor is completely stopped by Suicune and Gyarados and very stall weak.

If you do chose to try this, Metagross would be Jolly with 252 Spe/252 Atk and have Meteor Mash/Earthquake/(Ice Punch/Thunder Punch)/Explosion. Scizor would have 224 Hp/100 Atk/184 SpD, adamant, CB/LO.
 
I tested Metagross and tried to change some other things to accomadate him but unfortunately his roles are too different and the team stopped working properly. Thanks for the suggestion though!

I was thinking though, the only thing which can reliably counter those pokemon without locking itself into Choice is Zapdos. Unfortunately I'm not sure if I can fit him in either, will test and try to post back.

By the way, any other suggestions would be very very helpful.
 
If you do want Zapdos I suggest you drop Mangezone, Mangezone is a pretty cool poke. But Zapdos has Heat Wave and you can run HP Ice against Dragons and pesky ground types such as Hippodown.

I suggest you either run a LO Zapdos set or even the rare Choice Scarf Set.
 
Agree with the above poster.

I don't see what Magnezone is doing for your team, I'd replace it with an offensive Zapdos.

Zapdos @ Life Orb
252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power Ice / Grass
- Roost

It can wall Shaymin it lacks Hidden Power Ice and 2HKO with Heat Wave, Thunderbolt is the STAB of this set, and HP Grass/Ice is mainly for coverage.

This thing can also counter Scizor if it gives you problems.
 
I'll give it a go. The problem I see with running Zapdos, especially offensive Zapdos, is that I have no Dragon resists (e.g. late game I'd have no chance against an Outraging Dragonite or Flygon), and the two pokemon who I rely on to kill Scizor are now both weak to Stealth Rock.
Magnezone's role is taking out steels, while having a lot of good complementary resistances with my other team members.

Like I said, I'll try it out, but I'm not sure it will work on the team.
 
I would also be concerned with having no Dragon resists. I don't see how useful Tyranitar is if he doesn't have a Band, yet you don't use him as a sweeper. You could put a Steel type there. Some thoughts are Agiligross, SubCmRachi, WishPass Rachi, or SD Scizor. Each one serves the team a different purpose. Agiligross is another powerful sweeper who could be very useful late game. If you have trouble with stall, SubCM Rachi can set up on the likes of Blissey, or bulky Grasses and Waters such as Shaymin and Suicune. WishPass Rachi will help keep your other team mates around and healthy. SD Scizor is another sweeper, and I find him the least usefull of the above. These are just some thoughts, you could playtest to see which benefits your team most. Hope I helped :)
 
That's actually a pretty interesting suggestion AlphaJolt, especially WishCM Jirachi. Tyranitar is fairly useful and occasionally does sweep, while usually doing quite a bit of damage, although its not the most useful member of my team by far. I'll go and test Jirachi over Tyranitar and Magnezone to see if it fits properly (since Tyranitar-Jirachi-Gyarados is actually a pretty nice core as well).

Thanks for the suggestion :)
 
Hey, I got your message. I agree that WishCM Jirachi would be best over Magnezone for reasons already outlined, so I won't get into that. One thing that I think would work to improve the team would be a more reliable stop to some of your problem Pokemon, and an accompanying change. First, instead of Gengar, try the following set:

479-washa.png
@ Choice Scarf
252 Spe / 252 HP / 4 SpDef
Timid
-Thunderbolt
-Hydro Pump
-Will-o-wisp
-Trick

First, let me explain how this differs from standard scarf rotom. HP EVs allow you to withstand Starmie a lot longer so that he/she doesn't get a spin on you without some serious effort, and also come in handy against Suicune, Gyarados, Infernape etc. Shadow ball isn't very useful and is just tyranitar set up fodder, so will o wisp is used to revenge in general a variety of offensive threats, like Dragonite, Lucario, Metagross, and even Tyranitar in a pinch. This effectively stops many problematic Pokemon.

Of course, this does prompt the question, why use this over Shaymin? Scarf Shaymin is, arguably, a better stop to some of the above threats. The answer is that (a) Shaymin can still stop these threats reasonably well without a scarf and (b) scarfing Shaymin when it has other fantastic options is, to me at least, a waste. Try the following set instead:

492a.png
@ Leftovers
252 HP / 76 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest
-Leech Seed
-Protect
-Seed Flare
-Hidden Power (Fire)

This set maintains a combination of bulk, support and reasonable offensive presence. Shaymin still acts to a great check to all of your problem Pokemon- Starmie and Suciune can't KO with Ice Beam, and Gyarados can only hit Shaymin super effectively with Bounce, which, thanks to Protect, can be played around. Giving Leech Seed support to itself as well as your team members is another great plus for using him.

That's all the advice I have, I hope this helps.
 
I think Smith's suggestions are pretty good here; Scarf Rotom makes for a reliable Gyarados check, while Leech Seed Shaymin does a great job of checking bulky Waters. The loss of Scarf Shaymin does leave you a bit more open to LO Starmie, but Rotom can outspeed and check it if needed. The only thing I'm really concerned about is how these changes would alter the structure of your team; currently, you have a number of strong offensive Pokemon that benefit from Magnezone's efforts. Since neither Rotom nor Leech Seed Shaymin is particularly troubled by Steels, adding them may result in Magnezone being made less effective, therefore changing the playstyle of your team. However, these suggestions are certainly worth trying out for some of the reasons outlined above.

WishCM Jirachi is a great Pokemon, no doubt about that. Since I obviously have something of a Jirachi fetish (err...wrong word choice perhaps), I can definitely vouch for its effectiveness. However, Magnezone's role of Steel-trapper is unmatched, and it removes problematic counters to many of your other team members. I'm also not a fan of Substitute + Life Orb, which really tends to cut down on a Pokemon's survivability. Having played against Gouki recently, I was interested in a SubCharge Magnezone set that he used, which I think could work quite well over your current set:

[box]
467.png


Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Charge Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
[/box]
SubCharge Magnezone is pretty unexpected, but it is perfectly capable of setting up a few boosts on the Steel-types that it traps. Magnezone can then utilize its high Special Attack stat to deal quite a lot of damage to opposing teams. Thunderbolt and HP Ice retain the pseudo-BoltBeam coverage of your current set.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the help guys, very interesting suggestions :) I'm running Scarf Rotom and Charge Beam Magnezone at the moment with better results than I was getting before, I haven't lost in the last seven battles =D
I'll test out Smith's suggestions tomorrow once my exams are done.

Thanks so much for the suggestions everyone :)
 
Okay, reporting back. I experimented with SubCharge Zone for a bit and it did pretty well, but since there are only about 30 pokemon playing gen4 PO in my team zone it got very predictable, so I've ended up using Smith's changes as well as shifting the team around slightly.

First of all, I'm now running Wish CM Jirachi over Magnezone, and I have to say I really love it. Unfortunately its sort of useless except for wish passing until I eliminate Heatran and most Tyranitar, but its still doing a great job at the moment.

Gengar has been replaced by a Scarfed Rotom-W. I started with Smith's more defensive set but I realised I needed the extra reliability in taking out threats since my team hasn't got many ways to take out pokemon sitting above 100 base speed (e.g. Nasty Plot Infernape completely swept me after Hydro Pump missed, whereas I could have insured it with Thunderbolt with some SpAtk).

I was also running with Leech Seed / Protect Shaymin for a while but it was actually turning into a liability against Heatran, so its currently been replaced by an offensive Shaymin with Leftovers, Seed Flare, Earth Power, HP Ice and Leech Seed, which has been working out pretty well (although it makes Starmie into a complete #^@& again :(

Tyranitar also got swapped to a bulky CB set which has been an extremely helpful change for the team.

I'll update the RMT itself ASAP but I'm not sure about Swampert as my lead. Can anyone suggest any other Stealth Rock leads which might work? I could even run SR on a Celebi instead of Shaymin and then stick something else in the lead spot (hopefully, something which is fast and can help out against Infernape and the like). Something like LO Azelf might be interesting to try out here.
 
Not really a full rate but posting to say I think Lum Gross > Pert here, you cover the leads Gross loses to well and it helps deal with Lead Champ.

good luck!
 
The problem I have with Metagross is that an Infernape is already a major problem for me with NP, since I really can't beat it without Rotom-W. If possible, I'd like a lead which can at least help out somewhat against him.

This also doubles as a bump, since I've updated the RMT (sorta) with the changes which have been made.
 
Have you tried using Uxie? It's bulk is much better than Azelf and has acess to t-wave in order to stop Ape destroying your team.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top