The Usual Suspects (An OU Weatherless Team)

[Jolteon Bandit]

The Usual Suspects

Introduction​

Hello again Smogon! This will be my third RMT on the site, and I was just looking for some feedback on this team I made. Unlike my first two teams, this one is more balanced than the Heavy Offense teams I usually run. Basically, I try to set up Rocks and Spikes to punish other teams for switching. Usually, my three pokemon defensive core can severely impair my opponent's strategy and set up attempts. Then, when the opponent is damaged enough, any of my three sweepers and come in and clean up the game. Now, let's take a quick look at my team:

At A Glance

In Depth​

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Knock Off

I really like having Tentacruel here on my team. Perhaps his most useful ability is his knack for getting rid of hazards on my side of the field. His good bulk also allows him to come in and either go for the Toxic or Burn on my opponent. With the commonness of rain teams, Rain Dish helps Tenta immensely since most rain teams have difficulty getting rid of him after Thundurus-T is gone. Toxic Spikes is a good move, but I found Toxic to be more useful generally, since many of the foes I want to be affected by TS are either flyers or levitators (Dragonite for example). All around, a great spinner with good cohesion with my team.

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 232 Def / 252 HP / 24 Spd
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird

The standard Skarmory set that hasn't changed much generation to generation. It's huge Defense stat can often make physical attackers run straight back into their pokeballs in sheer frustration. Spikes punishes other pokemon for switching in and out, something my team can cause a lot of. Roost helps heal off damage from either attackers or Brave Birds. Whirlwind is good for phazing or just shuffling the opponent's pokemon to keep them off balance and racking up entry hazard damage. Brave Bird is a pretty good STAB that can deal decent damage to anything it's super effective against.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Toxic

Heatran is a pretty excellent special wall. He has great defensive stats along with a pretty wide movepool. Most importantly though, he is immune to Toxic and Burn (most of the time). If Heatran can get a burn on the opponent with Lava Plume, then he is very hard to take down due to his good defensive bulk even without investment. Stealth Rocks is another entry hazard that I utilize to make Skarmory more effective and to break things like Focus Sash, Multiscale, and Sturdy so that my sweepers can be more effective as well. Since Heatran causes a lot of switches himself, Roar is a good move on him to rack up more entry hazard damage and to shuffle the opponent's counter. Toxic is a good move that can take care of one of Heatran's most common counters, Blissey. This means that all Heatran can do to opposing Heatran though is Roar or switch out unfortunately.

Breloom @ Lum Berry
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Spore

With only one turn of set up, Breloom becomes a terrible force to be reckoned with. Combining its huge Attack stat with a Swords Dance and giving it great priority with a Technician Mach Punch, Breloom can cleanly sweep through teams with little difficulty. Even without the boost, Mach Punch makes Breloom a good revenge killer against things like T-Tar and Terrakion. Spore is the bread and butter of this set, essentially KOing an opponent's pokemon with one, 100% accurate move.

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Alakazam can be a deadly sweeper and cleaner without any set up. Without needing any set up, Alakazam has amazing stats. He has the second highest Special Attack stat in OU and the second highest Speed as well. Magic Guard and Focus Sash make Alakazam a tremendous revenge killer with it's perfect coverage and good stats. Psyshock is the move that I prefer to use since it allows Alakazam to punish special walls while also KOing any fighting types. Fun fact, Psychic can't OHKO Terrakion in Sandstorm due to the Special Defense boost. Guess what can: Psyshock. Focus Blast helps Zam deal with Dark and Steel types such as TTar and Ferrothorn. Shadow Ball creates perfect neutral coverage with Focus Blast and hits opposing Psychic types for super effective damage. HP Ice helps Zam deal with dragons and Gliscor (since he's using Psyshock). These things make Zam one of the premier revenge killers and late game cleaners in the metagame.

Haxorus @ Lum Berry
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 220 Spd / 252 Atk / 36 HP
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Brick Break

It's so irritating to realize that Haxorus only needed a little bit more speed to be a truly phenomenal pokemon. 97 puts him in a wierd place, faster than the Kyurem formes and slower than things like Salamence and Latios. The Dragon Dance set is amazing since it basically give Haxorus a Choice Band and Scarf all in one move while still allowing him to switch his attacks for great coverage. After a DD, the only thing that can really wall Haxorus is Skarmory. However, he must be careful since many common pokemon carry Scarfs with greater than base 100 speed like Mence and Lati@s. Once he sets up, he's hard to shut down though.

In Conclusion

This is definitely my most successful weatherless team (which isn't saying much since I'm not much good at battling) and it's really fun to play with once you get the hang of it. I've played against all the types of weather and this team has dealt with them pretty well, which is a must in this metagame. Depending on the weather, it makes certain members of my defensive core stand out. Tentacruel can usually frustrate rain teams once Thundurus-T is out of the way. Skarmory is good at taking on physically inclined Sand teams. Hetran can usually take care of sun teams that utilize a lot of fire attacks. Hail is pretty rare, but I find a way to play around it. All in all, this is a pretty good team that has done very well for me. Hate it, rate it, steal it, Luvdisc it, whatever. Have fun fellow Smogonites, and thank you.

Finally, I'd like to thank these people for their very useful rates:
Cherub Agent ==> Reminded me of Skarmory when I need a ground immune pokemon that could set up Spikes
Mr. Green ==> Suggested Toxic on both Tentacruel and Heatran, it's worked out really well
Neliel Tu Oderschvank and Leftiez ==> Suggested Roar on Heatran, helps my team phaze

Suggested Changes:

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MoxieMence/DD-Nite over Haxorus

Previous Team Members:

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Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

 

[Cherub Agent]

Hey, pretty solid weatherless team. You may want to try Skarmory over Ferrothorn, as you keep your Spikes, but obtain a Ground immunity. It also helps you handle Fighting-types a little easier, taking the pressure off Alakazam. I'm sorry that this is such a short rate, but I'm really busy atm, just wanted to point out a change that may prove useful. If I've got time later I'll add to it :)

 

[nmitchell890]

Hey there, nice team :) pretty short rate coming up but it should help massively.

Agreeing with Cherub Agent, your team lacks an immunity to ground. As sad as I am to see Haxorus go (he's an absolute beast and he should be used more) I think your team would benefit if you replaced him with Choice Scarf Salamence. Since your team lacks speed other than Alakazam, the addition of a Choice Scarf user is useful to provide a little extra. Salamence is powerful enough to begin with but once it gains a KO, it gains an attack boost due to Moxie and begins a 'snowball' effect that allows it to sweep very easily late game, especially with Breloom/Heatran removing steel types.

Well that was a short rate for me. Good luck with your team

 

[Mr. Green]

Hi, there

Two known weaknesses quite substantial or Rock Polish Landorus and Mamoswine. Rock Polish Landorus with the support of Stealth Rock, can really hurt your team, same goes for Mamoswine.
To resolve the weakness in Rock Polish Landorus, I would try to change your Alakazam for Latias Life Orb evs with this spread: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd with Timid nature. In this way you are able to kill Landorus is that the entrance of Latias uses Rock Polish and immediately after Hidden Power Ice, whether it's using direct Hidden Power Ice, in both cases you are able to kill it with Surf, another aid that Latias can make this better is to keep Keldeo with Tentacruel, that he may give you enough trouble.

Another change I would do is Skarmory> Ferrothorn, for several reasons, first, because to hold the Dragons have already moved Heatran, while for Water moves you Tentacruel, Skamory also gives an important immunity to Ground could then enter the various Earthquake, he can place as Ferrothorn Spikes and has a much more useful recovery move, or Roost. The most important reason that leads me to suggest Skamory is that it covers very well your weakness to Mamoswine, resisting all his moves, as well as Mamoswine Skamory good resistance to various physical sweeper for example dragons.

Covered the biggest weaknesses of the team, I would like to now move on to some minor modifications, but still important, starting with Tentacruel, I suggest Toxic> Toxic Spikes, for several reasons: the team opponents in most cases have Pokemon Steel, Flyng, with Pokemon levitate, Poison Pokemon (Venusaur, Tentacruel, Amoonguss for example) and the various Rapid Spinner, so it's a very, very difficult to poison the entire opposing team focusing on Toxic Spikes, and Toxic poisoning with Pokemon that come on Tentacruel is already more simple.

For Heatran instead of Earth Power except that against other Heatran, with whom you risk be exceeded in speed and killed is useless, since in Tyranitar under Sandstorm do very little damage, as well as to Jirachi specially Defensive, that is best to aim to hit him with Lava Plume, hope for the burn, i would try to put a more useful in my opinion Toxic / Will-o-Wisp, to stall the various Chansey / Blissey, and Will-o-Wisp for example Amoonguss. That is all.
Good luck, with your team!

Sets

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Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Roost
- Psyshock

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Toxic > Toxic Spikes (for Tentacruel)
Toxic/Will-o-Wisp (for Heatran)

 

[Jolteon Bandit]

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies.

@Cherub Agent - I completely forgot about Skarmory. He would fill the same role as Ferrothorn by setting spikes and taking physical hits. Awesome, I'll definitely change that and see if I like it. Thanks a lot for your rate.

@nmitchell890 - CS Mence is a pretty interesting option. I really like Haxorus though, he's probably my favorite Gen 5 pokemon. I'll try the Scarf option and if I don't like it I may try the DD option too (I like being able to switch moves with my sweepers). And I have found that my team can be a bit on the slow side =P

@Mr. Green - This is actually a really interesting rate since Alakazam's competition for his spot was between the Lati twins and Gothitelle. So I'll definitely try it and see if I like it. Toxic may be a better option on Tenta, I'll have to test to see though. The only thing is it only affects Tentacruel's counters. I'll try it though. I would probably go Toxic and Heatran or better yet Roar. I'll get hard walled by other Heatran, but I've got Tentacruel for that. Thanks a lot for your rate!

 

[Neliel]

Hi,

Your team does not have many problem, however I feel like you can take advantage of a better cleaner. Haxorus is a bit outclassed by other dragons if used with this set. Your team does not even need a spinner at all, but if you use one, you can even put a dragon weak to Stealth rock so that your spinner has some real use. The point is that i always feel like Haxorus cant find many chance to setup against offensive teams, and while its attack is slightly higher than Dragonite and salamence, you probably better using one of these. I think the standard Dragon dance dragonite fits better here. Dragonite, unlike Haxorus, has some defenses to take some hits, and it can take advantage of its trait, Multiscale, to always have a dragon dance. This can also resolve some of your problem, like the ground immunity you need, and it also fares better against Rain team in general, being able to setup on Keldeo. The set you should use is Dragon dance / Fire punch / Outrage / Extremespeed. Extremespeed is also usefull because it lets you revenge kill stuff in a pinch, as well as koing weakened scarfers that try to revenge kill you. As for your item, you can decide to go with the standard lum berry, or put Yache berry on dragonite so that mamoswine can be dealt with better. It also let you take an hit from scarf keldeo with hp ice or Landorus with sheer force, which seems a little problematic.
Mamoswine's Ice shard against Yache dragonite: 359 Atk VS 226 Def and 330 HP (60 Base Power): 181 - 213 (54.84% - 64.54%)
Hidden power ice keldeo against dragonite: 359 Atk VS 236 Def and 330 HP (70 Base Power): 155 - 182 (46.96% - 55.15%)
Hidden power ice Landorus against Dragonite: 361 Atk VS 236 Def and 330 HP (70 Base Power): 203 - 239 (61.51% - 72.42%)
So with this item you just need to play carefully and you will never lose to these things, you also have Alakazam as a second check so i dont you need anything else.

Now, one last thing. Ferrothorn without rain is going to lose badly against DD Dragonite due to fire punch, but you have Heatran so you dont have to care much about it. The point is that Heatran doesnt actually have a move to Phaze or either kill dragons locked into outrage, which is bad. I think protect is your most replaceable move here, so try Roar instead of it. Roar lets you phaze a lot of things, like sub Calm mind latias, bulky volcarona, and any dragon locked into outrage. Without this move, you became setup fodder for them, not a check. It also good because in combination with hazards you will do more passive damages to your opponent. Thats all i have to say.

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Dragonite (M) @ Yache Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- ExtremeSpeed

Protect--> Roar

 

[Leftiez]

Hi there.
It is a very effective and very strong team, I can't really rate your team because it seems very correct, but I see a weakness against Dragonite DD, because it has Fire punch for Ferrothorn and Earthquake for Heatran, then even if you possess Alakazam with Hidden Power Ice, Dragonite has his ability (Multiscale), so you do not kill him, and then your team is very disadvantaged against Breloom SD, I explain you, after a Sword Dance, Alakazam is OHKO by Mach Punch, the opponent can weaken Alakazam before set up, Haxorus is 2HKO by Mach Punch after a Sword Dance and OHKO if the opponent has Life Orb (+ 2 252 + Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Haxorus)(: 235-277 (77.81 - 91.72%) - guaranteed 2HKO)
(+ 2 + 252 Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 36 HP Atk / 0 Def Haxorus: 305-360 (100.99 - 119.2%) - guaranteed OHKO)
Heatran is OHKO by Mach Punch, Ferrothorn too, and Tentacruel is OHKO by Bullet Seed (4 hits), your Breloom is OHKO by Mach Punch, I can not suggest you a Stall, but i can suggest you Salamence Choice Scarf @ Moxie on Haxorus, Salamence is a very good pokemon for your team, it can come easily on Breloom because it tank easily Mach Punch + Bullet Seed, and it can come on Dragonite after a Dragon Dance because it is faster and can kill him with Outrage.

Then I suggest you swap Protect with Roar on Heatran, because if the opponent has Volcarona Roost you can not do anything, Heatran has not Toxic and Quiver Dance increases the Def.Spe, Tentacruel does not have Toxic also, now you can come easily on Volcarona Roost or Chesto Berry with Roar. Then Salamence has Stone Edge for him too.

Salamence

Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Stone Edge

Tl;dr

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Haxorus--->Salamence
Heatran--->Roar

Hope I Helped and Good Luck with your team.

~Leftiez

 

[Jolteon Bandit]

Thank you both for your rates. It's kind of funny to see you guys post similar rates suggesting a Dragon/Flying and Heatran getting roar. I like both of those ideas for the team, even though I really like Haxorus and he does a pretty good job. I may try a DD Salamence as well as your two suggestions just to see if it would work on the team (I really like the ability to switch moves with my sweepers, but CS Mence definitely isn't out of the question). And yeah, I'm definitely going to change Protect on Heatran to either Roar or a status move like WOW or Toxic.