The wonderful thing is a Gyarados...[OU RMT]

[desklamp]

...A Gyarados' a wonderful thing.
Their tops are made out of rubber,
their bottoms are made out of spring
They're bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy,

and you get where this is going right?

After getting into shoddy after a hiatus from Wi-Fi I had alot of issues with SubDDGyara, so I made a team centering around him and so far, it has been doing pretty well. But recently I've been losing more and more battles to multiple threats, but especially Heatran so I wanted to post this RMT for help.

Changes in Bold

Team Building Process:

First I wanted a Gyarados with Substitute, Dragon Dance, Waterfall, and Bounce. So that goes on the team.

Next I wanted to run the Tinkerbell set of Celebi, because that was also another threat I was losing to with my previous teams.

Then I wanted a lead that sets up Stealth Rocks and lives, and I tried Gliscor and Swampert, but I didn't like either, so I went with a ScarfRachi to hax things to death and set up those annoying floating rocks of doom.

After that I wanted something to complete the Steel-Dragon thing and take down DDMence and other Gyaradoses, and only Latias really fit that description. My previous teams had also benefitted from ScarfLatias and I really like it so it was a shoo-in.

After filling out these four slots I began to look for some other things that would work nicely with this line-up. ScarfMagnezone struck my mind as a threat that had been hurting my Scizors for the longest time. And with 2 pokes that get trapped by Pursuit, I figured I could use it to revenge kill.

The last poke I've been playing around with and so far Lucario has done the best out of Mamoswine and SD Scizor. The only problem is that I have very little to take Fire attacks and thus, Heatran destroys me. Infernape to a lesser extent because Latias walls it nicely, but after Latias is down, Infernape has a field day with my team, so I want a fire resist and a electric immunity, but I haven't had many ideas which leads me to this RMT.

After some help from Lord Blood and other inputs from raters, I decided on a Swampert lead that has been helping alot, a SubTran that eats people, and a Gliscor who also helps alot, but i find that I have a Starmie, SubPetayaEmpoleon, and to some extent Gengar weakness now.

In-Depth Look:

Mudkip the Swampert:
Swampert @ Leftovers
Torrent
Relaxed
252 Hp/ 4 Atk/ 252 Def

Stealth Rocks
Roar
Earthquake
Ice Beam
So back when I didn't have access to RNG abuse and RNG abusers, I made a dinky little Swampert lead named PwnzerTank. With shoddy, that little tank has become and object of nostalgia. Anyway, it's a MixPert that sets up Stealth Rocks, walls things and Phazes. Stealth Rocks is an obvious inclusion, Roar phazes out stuff like DDKingdra, Agiligross, and other set-up sweepers. Earthquake is for obvious STAB and Ice Beam has excellent coverage for dragons and floaty things that lead. Like Azelf or Aerodactyl. And Mix Anti-Lead DNite to an extent.

CaptainPlanet the Celebi:
Celebi @ Life Orb
Natural Cure
Modest
232 Hp/ 244 Sp Atk/ 32 Spe

Thunder Wave
Leaf Storm
Hidden Power [Fire]
Recover

Taken straight from analysis of Celebi. Tinkerbell is an amazing set that gives Paralysis support for the slower Lucario and Gyarados of my team and seriously dents things from Swampert to Scizor. After having an entire team swept by one, I knew I needed to run one. Thunder Wave shuts down Scarfers and leaves things open to Lucario's fists of fury. Leaf Storm hurts Bulky Waters like Swampert, Suicune, Milotic, and friends. Hidden Power Fire gives coverage for Scizors who think they can Pursuit or U-Turn with impunity. Recover increases the longevity of my beautiful green onion and Life Orb helps Celebi be a "new definition of pain" according to the analysis page.

Tigger the Gyarados:
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Intimidate
Adamant
6 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe

Substitute
Dragon Dance
Bounce
Waterfall

Oh yeah, this thing is awesome. Send it in on and Sub on the switch out, and Bounce on counters like Latias and Vaporeon or Dragon Dance behind your magical teddy bear. Bounce has Flying STAB, 85 Base Power, and 30% chance to paralyze making it a powerful move on Gyarados that takes down some counters like Celebi and Infernape while hurting counters that aren't taking super-effective damage. Waterfall is also STAB and has nice coverage with Bounce that is only resisted by Empoleon and Lanturn making Gyara a cool late-game sweeper that doesn't afraid of anything.

Jetstream the Latias:
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
Timid
6 Hp/ 252 SpAtk/ 252 Spe

Draco Meteor
Surf
Thunderbolt
Trick

Faster than a Dancing Salamence, Stronger than a raging Gyarados, able to scare Infernapes with a single bound it's... ScarfLatias! Outspeeding Mences and Gyaras with one dance and OHKOing them, it hurts stuff. It hurts them dead. Trick gets rid of a scarf as I have 3 on this team (Something I would like to get rid of), but is necessary for Latias to do what it does. Draco Meteor is an immense STAB that is only resisted by Steels while Surf and TBolt provide coverage for my speeding little buddy.

SpaceHeater the Heatran:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Flash Fire
Timid
4 Hp/ 252 SpAtk/ 252 Spe

Substitute
Fire Blast
Earth Power
Dragon Pulse

The angry SubTran comes to fix my Heatran weakness. Comes in on a counter, sets up a sub, and wrecks things. I've taken out quite a few pokes with this guy and I like him alot. I chose this set over ScarfTran, SpecsTran, and TormentTran because I already have ScarfLatias to revenge kill, and I've never effectively used TormentTran, it just doesn't fit with me. Substitute gives me a doll, teddy bear, SUPER KAWAII PLUSH DOLL DESU-WA, etc. to hide behind and I can get a free hit on a counter and switch, or take out multiple pokes with it. Fire Blast is STABed and powerful, Earth Power has great coverage, and Dragon Pulse hits Latiases, Mences, DNites, and sometimes Flygon. I also run it because Shoddy doesn't like Heatran with HP Grass for some reason.

Rock Lobster the Gliscor:
Gliscor @ Leftovers
Sand Veil
Impish
252 Hp/ 40 Def/ 216 Spe

Earthquake
Roost
Taunt
Toxic

Analysis' Stallbreaker set with Impish because I don't see many Jolly Lucarios that want to take this thing. Another Physical Tank, but this one heals! Takes down Blissey's and slower walls and Toxics them. Basically, it fixes my hatred of Stall Teams. Earthquake is STABed, Roost provides and instant heal, Taunt stops other walls, and Toxic wears them out. Pretty simple IMO. I might test the SubRoost Zapdos in Gliscor's spot because I need something to eat Special Attacks from Gengar.

Old problems

Hide

The main problem with this team is a huge Heatran weakness because of 4 fire weak pokemon and no one with sufficient bulk to take Fire Blasts. Ground attacks hit hard, but with 2 immunities and a resist, I find that less of a problem. I need Heatran counters because right now I only have checks. And posting an RMT is the best way to get help rather than theorizing by myself because I get multiple opinions that aren't from the voices in my head. Another problem is my 3 choice users, so I really want Magnezone or Lucario to drop for a bulky water or other Heatran counter. Both also perform poorly because they are both situational and are forced out on counters, but I don't know which one to retire.

New Problems
Gengar hurts me but I can revenge kill. Starmie owns me. SubPetaya Empoleon owns me. I have a weakness to special attacks. It hurts. Alot. I've been swept 5-0 and 4-0 because of those things, likewise, most of my wins are 4 or 5-0's. There are a few close 1-0's but this team usually wins by a huge amount, or is an epic fail, depends on my prediction skills and their Gengar/Starmie. I need something to stop them and I'm thinking ResTalk Snorlax but I don't know what to get rid of. I honestly hate Gliscor leads because I never had a good experience with them but both Swampy and Gliscor are valuable members. The weakest link has honestly been Gyarados lately, but he's been pulling off sweeps like nobody's business too. And it kinda sucks to drop Gyarados when it's in the title of my RMT.

Current Thoughts:

Gyarados>Breloom
Reason:
Breloom has better recovery and hits really hard and has an easy time setting up(Something I find hard to do with Gyara, which usually gets 1 or 0 DD's) and uses Sub much easier because Breloom doesn't take 25% from SR.

Cons:
Gyarados has Intimidate and is the "star" of this team.

SubTran>SubRoost Zapdos
Reason:
Same Substitute business, only this one is stally and amazing. SubRoost Zapdos was a major boost for older teams.

Cons:
Lose a ChoiceTran counter and other Heatran check. Along with helpful resistances to Steel, Ice, and Ground.


On a positive note, Celebi and Latias perform amazingly well in this team.


​

 

[Lord Blood]

Jirachi:

You definitely have to try Swampert again. It fits in perfectly with your team. However, if you truly feel that he just doesn't work for you. There are two other Pokemon, one of which is (arguably) better than Jirachi when paired with Latias. Here's are the two sets:

The first being one who has great synergy with your whole team in general and can take a couple of hits:

Heatran @ Shuca Berry
4 HP (If you pick Taunt for the last slot, otherwise 4 Atk)/252 SpA/252 Spe
Naive (If you pick Taunt for the last slot)/Timid
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Taunt/Explosion

Stealth Rock is a must on all OU teams. Not only does it negate Sash, but it also hurts Salamence and Gyarados on the switch in. Fire Blast is obligatory STAB and when combined with Earth Power, deals with leads very easily. Earth Power gives great coverage and helps to deal with opposing Heatran, if you still have your Shuca Berry, you can use it later on in the game to take an Earth Power from opposing Heatran and ram an Earth Power of your own down their face. The last moveslot is your basic lead toss up. You can use Taunt to prevent Swampert and Metagross from setting up, or you could explode in the face of Swampert, Azelf and the like.

The second lead that I also highly recommend is a Metagross. He pairs (arguably) better than Jirachi with Latias, as Metagross has higher Def and Latias has higher SpD:

Metagross @ Occa Berry
252 HP/236 Atk/12 Def/8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Explosion/Earthquake

This Metagross can take a couple of hits and really pump up your team with it's high power moves. As with Heatran, Stealth Rock is necessary to put your team on the board with some (minor) damage. Meteor Mash is your atrocious 100 base power STAB move that, when paired with Bullet Punch, easily takes care of Azelf, Aerodactyl and other frail leads. The last move is the one where you pick your poison. You can choose to decimate Hippowdon and Swampert leads with Explosion. Or you can crush Heatran via Earthquake.

Celebi:

I absolutely love what you've done with your Celebi. It can fire off a 120 base power STAB move and then switch out to a counter with impunity. I will definitely try Leaf Storm over Grass Knot.

Gyarados:

This Gyarados slightly worries me. With the fact that with Sub, you have no way to stop your opponent from setting up. I highly recommend you change Substitute to Taunt as with Taunt, you can prevent Metagross from using Agility which basically crushes your team.

Latias:

A small suggestion would be to try out SpecsLatias. As with damage that I've seen, Specs Latias hits hard. Same moveset, nature and EVs, just try Choice Specs over Choice Scarf.

Excellent team. I love the great synergy you have going and I wish you the best of luck. Plus, I was hoping to rate one of your teams anyways. =D

- LB -

 

[Gideon]

Lucario shouuld always be adamant with crunch because you can ohko dusknoir. With jolly go for ice punch to outspeed neutral gliscor and neutral slamence.

 

[Vapor Trails]

I see you said you have a Heatran weakness.
Why not try this Heatran set for a few matches and see how it does?

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Naive/Rash
Ability: Flash Fire
EV's: 4 Atk / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
~Flamethrower/Fire Blast
~Earth Power
~Explosion
~Dragon Pulse/HP Grass/HP Ice

The nature and the first moveslot is basically a matter of preference.
The last is also, but is better suited to Heatran's main mission.
Since it's to block other Heatran, and to have some revenge killing aspects, I would go with Dragon Pulse.

 

[desklamp]

@ Lord Blood, I like the LeadTran, I'll test him out. Taunt on Gyara I've tested before and I'll try it again, but the sub has helped late game. Latias needs to stay Scarfed to outspeed Gyarados and Salamences after they DD, otherwise they can really rip my team apart.

@uclafan, I'll switch over Luc to adamant and test it out

@txrdriftking, ScarfTran I don't like as much because Latias is much faster, and other Heatran can earth power on the predicted switch to mine.

 

[november1093]

Your team has 3 choice scarfs. A well-played Scizor wouldn't have much of a problem with this team (and neither would gross). I suggest changing magnezone to the Steel Killer set. It gets rid of those annoying steels that Lucario can't (as many steels carry a typing that neutralizes Lucarios Close Combat (Scizor, Metagross, Skarmory, Forretress, Bronzong, Jirachi, shall I go on?). With the Steel Killer set the only one you should actually have trouble with is a Jirachi with F-punch. Here is the set:

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Timid 40 HP/252 Sp.Atk/216 Spe
Magnet Rise-Substitute-Thunderbolt-HP Fire

With this spread you can trap and destroy Steels. Most notably Metagross and Scizor. With this spread (and Max IVs in the used stats) You can outspeed Max Sped Adamant Scizor and OHKO him with HP fire, whilst an Adamant CB Metagross cannot break your substitute with Meteor Mash (which is probably what it will lock itself into), and can retaliate with HP fire or STAB thunerbolts (I think HP fire is stronger by a few points).

 

[desklamp]

BUMP and OP edited for changes.

 

[ginganinja]

Hey just to help with Gengar and starmie, maybe a SpecsJolt could help you, it can come in not electric attacks aimed at Gyarados and start hammering things.
Also Scizor can help with empoleon. Having used one myself off the top of my head there are 3 types of pokemon that really stop it from sweeping,
Pokemon with priority eg Scizor as they can breat the sub or take out a wounded Empoleon
Fast Scarfed Pokemon eg Latias. If a sub is up they are not a problem but latias can KO empoleon if there is no sub.
Special walls. A pokemon like Vapereon could really help you as it can sponge special moves like you needed.

I have not tried Sub Gyra but it seems to me that after a sub Gyra has lost 50% of its health in 1 turn. Still I have not tried it and it seems that you have had some experience with it so yeah

Anyway these are just ideas to help you
I might rate back later

 

[desklamp]

I fail to see how Scizor counters Empoleon when Empoleon 4x resists Bullet Punch and 2x resists Quick Attack. If it has a sub up and an Agility it's game over as everything with Mach Punch is OHKO'd after Petaya+Torrent unless it has a Sash. Since Gyara is a late game sweeper and as you said, loses 50% with SR + Sub, I rarely bring him out untiil I know the counters are gone. Thus, Jolteon will RARELY be coming in on an Electric move. I will test Jolt over something however, but really the only thing to drop would be Celebi so I'll try it out later.

 

[ginganinja]

I never suggested scizor can counter Empoleon but after it has subbed and got its petaya boost Bullet Punch's deals around 18% damage if scizor is running CB, its not much but quite a few times a scizor has KOed my weakened Empoleon.

Also if you did choose jolteon I might suggest dropping substitute over something like taunt or a third attacking move as Gyrados can be brought out earlier.

 

[george182]

switch heatran to a scraf tran it handles as gyrados, latias and pert can already handle heatran and scarf can take on a heatran better nyway cus its faster. You may say it is good for switches, but it is fairly easy to predict a switch when you have your heatran in and with a scarf you get 2 chances to attack as u are faster.

It also gives u a check to gengar, jolly lucario, is faster than starmie so can kill weakened starmie's, again with the dragon pulse.

Tinkerbell uses rest, it defines the hit and run strtergy, you then switch out and let natural cure, cure you. Why not, it fully heals you, at no cost and ater a special attack drop u will want to switch out anyway, tinkerbell is not made to stay in!

Cb scizor or gliscor, scizor can handle msot specil attackers and u-turn some stall players into oblivion, plus stall teams have a way of dealing with toxic, the idea is to taunt and u-turn into a sweeper, not toxic that fails when a team has natural cure, rest, heal bell aromatheropy etc, which all stall teams have, why do you not understand the idea of the sets u are using.

taunt could be more useful on gyrados, it helps with stall and stops bounce form lettign people set up on you, OR leichi berry could be used as u have acces to sub, acting like an subempoleon, except with dragon dance and being physical.

 

[desklamp]

I'm sorry I decided to run the second move listed on Gliscor's last slot instead of the first. Obviously I don't know how to play pokemon.

Celebi has switched to Rest with meh results, not noticing a change except for the fights with Toxic Spikes where it's more helpful, but it is useful.

Gyarados, Latias, and Pert do not handle Heatran as Swampert does not enjoy repeated Special hits without recovery and neither of the former are bulky. ScarfTran might be worth testing, but I already have a Special Attacking Scarfer that revenges Gengar and Starmie, whilst Jolly Lucario does pose a threat to me, I think Gyara handles it. I'll test ScarfTran, but I don't think I'll enjoy the second Special Attacking Scarfer, it just seems redundant since it does not trap Scizor like ScarfZone. ScarfTran also cannot take on both Mence and Gyara and outspeed after one DD.

Substitute helps more over Taunt on Gyara as I'm running Bounce, which is a multi-turn move. If Taunt ends while I'm in the air, I'm forced to land on a possible sweep ending move, like TWave or Will-o-Wisp. Substitute protects against those, but not setting up, which is a problem, but only specific Curse users would want to set up on a DD Gyara with a Sub up. I prefer Leftovers for recovery which let me use Gyara for something besides a sweep, but I'll test the Liechi Berry.

Also, bump.

 

[The SPrinkLer]

I really don't like your Heatran set, as Gyarados easily sets up on it, which could be a nuisance to your team. I'd try this set:

Heatran @ Life Orb
Timid Nature
4 hp/252 spa/252 spd
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-HP Grass
-Substitute

This set easily disposes of bulky waters, and 2hkoes Salamence to boot(after SR). There's no need for Dragon Pulse with Life Orb. Also, it lures in Starmie and does severe damage to it with HP Grass. Gyarados also takes a hefty amount from Fire Blast even with its very good SpD. Be aware that a neutral Fire Blast is stronger than a SE HP Grass( like against Hippowdown). This team looks very solid and I hope I helped. Good luck!

 

[desklamp]

@giganinja, I'm pretty sure that with no HP or SpDef investment, and with a weakness to Stealth Rocks, Gyarados does in fact, not handle Heatran. And with no leftovers or bulk on Latias, it does not like to take repeated Fire Blasts. It's just residual damage which stops both from switching in.

@sprinkles, I'll try the Life Orb out, but Shoddy won't let me put HP Grass on Heatran because it says that I have an invalid IV spread and changes it to electric. Usually though, I switch out to Latias on the first DD which lets me outspeed and OHKO with a Scarf and Thunderbolt.

 

[Sei]

@sprinkles, I'll try the Life Orb out, but Shoddy won't let me put HP Grass on Heatran because it says that I have an invalid IV spread and changes it to electric.

All you have to do is keep lowering Heatran's Atk IV until the HP Grass with 70 bp appears valid.

The legit IVs for HP Grass of 70 bp is 31 HP/2 Atk/31 Def/31 Spe/30 SpA/31 SpD.

 

[Vapor Trails]

I fail to see how Scizor counters Empoleon when Empoleon 4x resists Bullet Punch and 2x resists Quick Attack.

What about Superpower?
2HKO on Empoleon.
Anyway, I think I forgot to give your team a rate.
If so, i'm saying 7/10.