this is the team I've been waiting to post.

gorm

gorm

is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
@AGLANCE:
"dual status" sub rotom lead
firelebi
sr mixpert
rttran
twave wishbliss
hbddnite


to me the metagame is in dissarray. everyone seems to be looking for the ideal scizor/mence team and frankly it's getting old. we're back into the "this offense team counters that one" phase and frankly it's time for bulky/balanced teams to step up and start stabilizing shit.

obviously i wanted to have celebi on this team, but more importantly i wanted freshness. i don't mean freshness like "using uu mons because you never see them", i mean fresh tactics that people aren't used to dealing with.

Another aspect i find is that status is everywhere, especially twave with chomp gone.


500.png

Rotom-c @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Will-o-wisp
- Discharge
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball

many may have claimed it. all i know is that i came up with it all by my lonesome. this lead has the most plans of action i know of. how is it not in the analyses I don't know.

252/252 EVs because i wanted to be
1) as fast as possible, outspeeding all unboosted gyara, trans, and mamos, not to mention adamant luke and some mixmences.
2) fat subs

OU leads:
Aerodactyl- Discharge as he taunts/srs. przing is e. satisfying
Azelf- discharge, shadow ball, or discharge, discharge if it's naive (most are; discharge is a 2hko on naive ones iirc)
Bronzong- lol. sub and wow/dischage. usually wow.
Heatran- dischage. scarftran leads (lol?) can't ohko so i switch to pert and sr
Hippowdon- wow.
Infernape- discharge. no apes ohko me.
Jirachi- annoying. i fear trick but i will usually wow since most leadrachis are physical.
Metagross- hehehe. subwow. scarftrick died so i love metaleads. they get sr up and become useless.
Ninjask- discharge 4ever. sub on protect when applicable
Roserade- switch to tran to take sleep
Smeargle- usually sub. scarfspore is annoying but i have nite.
Swampert- haha. they get scared by leaf form but sometimes not, so i always stay in and wow.
Tyranitar- wow and pray for no miss and boah! wowed crunch/pursuit can't hurt me.
Gyarados- Discharge.
Gengar/Froslass- ugh. i have to switch. Luckily Bliss deals with nonboomgars well. pert can deal with frosslass but Dbond/spikes sets are annoying.
Mamoswine- Wow, Ice Shard can't hurt me that bad.
Abomasnow- No one uses hail!

this things can basically handle most anything. My fave lead in months. by far.

251.png

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/176 Def/80 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Fire]

yeah. you've heard the ruckus now check the fuss. Celebi is on all my good teams because it's just that good.
No one likes dealing with this set short of jolteon, taunt u-turn gliscor and a lucky bounceydos that managed to get sent out ahead of it. I throw in some satk over def because scizor is bulky these days, but sr helps a ton. Between her and bliss, bulky waters are a nuisance at best.

260.png

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/176 Def/4 Spd/76 SAtk
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

no one is better than pert at laying sr. that is my conviction. it gets three great attacking moves for a nonboosting tank. the only thing that can set up on it is gyara and with twave celebi and rotom it's like why would i care? ground typing is good for taking on non hp grass zapdos/jolteons. toxic usually cripples him but with a cleric and a wisher it's no problem. grass weak is covered several times over.

490.png

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP/52 SAtk/204 SDef
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Earth Power
- Lava Plume

Another element of the "anti status" aspect of this team. this tran is so excellent and together with celebi forms an awesome defensive core. having a default sleep taker who doesnt fear any of the common sleepers (breloom/gengar/roserade/Smeargle) as well as another mon who doesn't mind status. a flawless switch into celebi (save timid cmpass versions) is a great thing to have.

242.png

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def/80 SAtk/176 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Seismic Toss

"glue" i have all the fight resists to support bliss, and this set is goddam beautiful on this team spreading twave to whoever hates it (everyone save perhaps zong) and wishing facilitated by FPs. ice beam is kind of random but i like being able to hit grounds like slack off hippowdon. might test ft but I dunno. stoss almost a necessity on bliss for subbing heatrans!.
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149.png

Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Heal Bell
- Roost

Don't laugh because ask yourself "how would I deal with this". Apart from ice shards this guy fears nothing. dd up in peace, never fearing status and roosting when it pleases you. taunters get met with a DC to the face and i ain't afraid of any of them really! Star of the team.
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Problems
ddmence is a bitch. pert/cele twave are my only hopes, because with tran as my only outrage resist and carries only only 1 resisted attack (lava plume) so pulling off sweeps isn't difficult. boom/gb/eq/sr zong>pert is an option but i i like the fire restist.

Adamant Lo swine is annoying but cele/rotom check it ok

without nite my team has a lot of problems with bliss!

TS is a bitch, i lose cele and bliss' staying power.i try to switch pert in on layer 1 so he only gets poisoned =\

mixnape is =\. starmie somewhere could be nice

considering testing zong somewhere, also scarfing tran!
 
Im no good at rates, but I can give you a couple of pointers.

If the Rotom lead works, then keep it.

With Resttal Heatran, Natural Cure on Celebi and Blissey, is Heal Bell really neccessary? You only need one real Status absorber, so its a bit overkill.
This team relies heavily on Thunderwave as it lacks any real speed. You'll have a hard time keeping up.
My suggestion is to exchange one Heatran to a Scarf Variant. It won't miss Resttalk much with all of your Status absorbers and can really outspeed key pokemon.
Or you can exchange the heal bell Dragonite for a Specially based Salamence. It can still D-dance up and hit with Dragon Claw. Though it can't heal bell, you have Celebi and Blissey for that anyways.
Speaking of Blissey, It needs a calm nature so it doesn't hinder Ice Beam. And You'll want to use Protect or Softboiled so Blissey can stay alive longer. Take out Ice beam or Seismic toss if you rely on Paralysis.

Again I'm not experienced but its just what I noticed. Hope it helps.
 
Lucario can be somehow countered by Rotom, since most Lucario are adamant and won't enjoy being W-o-Wisped by it (and jolly variants usually carry ice punch for Gliscor).

The only problem with this team is that I can't get what its goal is... I mean, neither you're going to stall properly, having no passive damage other than SR, nor you're going to play balanced with only Dragonite capable of dealing some serious damage (and only after 2-3 turns of set up).

Anyway, you're massively weak to Infernape, both SD variants and all out attacking Ape - with hidden power [ice]. Even if it's not a "counter" for it, I believe that a scarf-Heatran in place of your rest-talk one may be a good replacement. Your team is definitely very slow, and having something capable of revenge killing things like Infernape, Lucario and company (or even the feared life orb Mamo) would be really beneficial to it. In this case give it hidden power [ice], if only to revenge kill outraging dragons - note that Swampert is not even guaranteed to survive a +1 life orb'd outrage from Mence - DD Salamence may pose a massive threat to this team too.

Other than that, I believe that you need protect on Blissey, maybe over thunder wave, to scout for choiced attackers like Scizor, which love to switch into her. Protect also allows her to recover effectively.

Also note that calm mind Latias with refresh will completely rip this team, explosion on scarf-Tran - if you opt for it - may be an extreme measure against her, but is of course not a counter.
 
Cool Dragonite, but what does it do when a Steel-type enters? Any Scizor or Metagross can switch in with impunity and Roost can't restore your health fast enough. Switch to Heatran or Swampert I'm guessing, but that just racks up more Stealth Rock damage. Also, Dragonite wants 248 HP EVs so Stealth Rock damage rounds down.

Like Haunter, I'm not really sure what this team is trying to do. It walls some stuff, has trouble with other stuff. Then you have a mono attacking Dragonite at the end, without someone to handle Steel-types beforehand (bar Celebi, who nails Scizor hard with HP Fire).

Like others have suggested, I'd change Heatran to ScarfTran to revenge kill Infernape.

Adding in a Forretress somewhere, likely over Swampert would help you greatly. Or you could replace Rotom-C with Forretress, and make Swampert your lead. The reason for Forretress is to keep Stealth Rock off the field for Dragonite, while laying down Toxic Spikes so he can help stall out bulky Water-types with Roost. Since this team sort of seems to be a stall team, it'll probably be very helpful.

Good luck!
 
Yay! Your using the original dragon instead of the poser Salamence! I shouldn't talk because I have one on my team but he is such a poser hahahahaha...I wasn't even aware that Dragonite could learn Heal Bell but now I want to try one! This sounds kinda retarded but maybe try Outrage and a Persim Berry instead of Dragon Claw and Leftovers. It sounds kinda ass but it has worked for me in the past. Try it out! :D

I have a beef with your Blissey set. Here's one thats really worked for me well in the past:

blissey.png

Blissey (f) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 40 SpA / 216 SpD
Calm nature (+Special Defense, -Attack)
- Aromatherapy
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Softboiled

At first this set seems stupid, but when you actually use it, you see the true beauty of it. I know you already have a Heal Bell user, but you can take it off Dragonite for an attacking option like Earthquake. With this set, you can simeltaneously cripple the opponents entire team while at the same time making the opponents status moves, like TWave or Will-O-Wisp, into your bitch. Its so freakin amazing to be able to cure the whole team of status in one shot. Ice Beam can USUALLY OHKO Salamence. There's no Seismic Toss on here, and Softboiled over Wish because even though Wish is better for team support, Softboiled is instant recovery. If you want to use Wish, then give Blissey Protect. All in all, though, nice team....I hope I get to fight it sometime! :D
 
Problem:

EV tweaking
Tyranitar
Salamence

How to fix it:

Wow, it's a solid team actually, I'm going to try that lead sometime. In theory it sounds effective. Well straight to the problems, don't like to post random shit. Tyranitar will trouble you with some EVs you placed on some guys. Salamence will trouble you also. I don't want to change too much but I'll tweak the EV spread of Celebi to this: 216 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpA / 36 Spe, you keep your attack and the speed EVs will let you outspeed Jolly Tyaranitar which you can cripple with Thunder Wave ro finish with Grass Knot. Swampert can't take too many Crunch's and it won't survive +1 Outrage from Salamence, therefore change it too a simple 252 HP / 252 Def EV spread which allows you to survive +1 Outrage most of the time and survive multiple CB Crunches. Blissey is craving Toxic because T-Wave is already around and hitting Togekiss and Azelf with Toxic is great.

both SD variants and all out attacking Ape
Click to expand...

Dragonite can take unboosted Hidden Power Ice (64.25% - 76.68%) and won't even OHKO with SR down. Rotom can take its beloved STAB attack. But yeah its mid-tier problem, not a big one. Imo.
 
franky said:
Dragonite can take unboosted Hidden Power Ice (64.25% - 76.68%) and won't even OHKO with SR down. Rotom can take its beloved STAB attack. But yeah its mid-tier problem, not a big one. Imo.
Click to expand...

You forgot that Dragonite has to switch into it and possibly take a close combat or a fire blast which will bring it in the hp ice kill range. And Rotom is 2hko'd by fire blast, so it's, at best, a mediocre switch into Ape (especially considering that Infernape is faster and that Rotom won't even ohko it). Not to mention that SD Ape can ohko both Dragonite and Rotom with a +2 life orb'd stone edge or flare blitz respectively. So Infernape is definitely a BIG problem.

Tyranitar will trouble you with some EVs you placed on some guys.
Click to expand...
With Swampert on the team TTar is his last concern. And by the way he can always burn it with Rotom or finish it off with Celebi or even Dragonite. By the way, jolly TTar is quite rare and only used as a dragon dancer, which Swampert forces out or kills anyway.
 
Hello Gorm, seems like a solid team with a great lead, but there are still a lot of other things we need to fix up. To be perfectly honest, this team looks like it is stuck somewhat in an advance mindset (ignoring the Heatran and Rotom inclusion), because as you already alluded to, Toxic Spikes and Infernape really give you serious problems.

I know you really enjoy using Dragonite, but Latias really seems to benefit the team more, as she is almost the perfect counter to Infernape, while still giving you a strong defensive Dragon-type who can stat up and destroy things. I dont think DD Mence is as dangerous as you say but you can be somewhat comforted in the fact that Latias outspeeds a Salamence with no boosts, a step up from already being slower than it like Dragonite.

If Dragonite's biggest goal on this team is to deal with Blissey, then I would consider the Refresh/Recover Latias that will take care of Blissey better than most other things.

I also agree that a Scarf Heatran with Explosion would be a great way to deal with other Latias as well as a second measure against Blissey.

With Dragonite gone and already a good amount of paralysis, I feel Celebi could use Heal Bell rather well. Heatran and Infernape won't be hurting the team too much with Blissey and Latias backing it up.

Tyranitar isn't really much of a big deal at all, but just make sure Swampert gets plenty of Wish support because he will be used to deal with Mence and TTar.

Extra note: In staying with the team's defensive nature, a SubSeed Breloom over Celebi could be a real help, giving you a valuable Dark-type Resist (helping a bit with TTar), as well as a reliable switch to Toxic Spikes. SD Breloom can also be considered but it is a more offensive approach than the one I think you are going for.
 
That dragonite deals with infernape well enough as long as it does not have hp ice X_x, but the all out attacker is a pain, but he was thunderwave on celebi which attracts ape. The main problem of the team is speed as it's extremely slow, with nobody over 300 speed. Although you have a lot of bulk so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. You might want to run leaf storm on celebi as it will dent stuff on the switch in, but that's all up to you.
Although I don't know how much you want swampert but you could give blissey sr, as it sets it up very easily, and substitue swampert for another water like gyarados, starmie, vaporeon, milotic, etc as they get rid of your weakness to infernape and can help you out a lot.
 
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