This isn't a normal team is it? :O

[iamQmai]

Hello all!
Long time lurker to the Smogon forums.
I have been playing Pokemon competitively since January. Well I played before that but not seriously.
I like to use "odd" teams, and really dont like "overrated" pokemon like Scizor or Dragonite etc. I much prefer to use pokemon which nobody really uses, or use different strategies with pokemon which people do use.

On with the team now.
I wanted to use a Starmie, so i'm basing my team around him. Note: it is not my lead.

Now, I wanted a steel type to resist Dragon types. And one that springs to mind which goes well with Starmie too is Magnezone.

The only type that none of these resist is Ground, so I needed a flying type. I wanted one which could sweep, which my favourite being Gyarados, so I chose him.

Now I wanted another pokemon which could hit hard, and be physical. I was going to use DD Scrafty, but then my team would be weak to Fighting types. Even though 2 resist it right now. So I chose my "backup" fighting type, Conkeldurr.

I now wanted a Dragon type to hit hard. And maybe get rid of the other Dragon's. As I'm weird and like different style of pokemon, I chose Kyurem.

Now, my team's main weaknesses were: Fighting, Ground and Electric. My favourite Pokemon is Gengar, so I chose him as he doesnt get hit by Fighting or Ground.

Seeing how ive been using Gengar since I started to play OU (2000+ games ago) (I play on PO) I decided he will be my main lead.

Gengar

@ Focus sash.
Levitate

Timid Nature
EV's:
252 Spe,
252 SpA,
4 Def.

Attacks:
Shadow Ball,
Giga Drain,
Taunt,
Destiny Bond.

This is a beast coupled with Magnezone. He is Scizor bait, if at full health he can get pursuited and only get to his focus sash. Then comes in Magnezone and kill Scizor with his HP Fire. If Gengar gets hit by something, he can regain health with Giga Drain, which pretty much always catches Swampert and Gastrodon unaware. Shadow ball is for stab, and taunt is for a fast taunter.

Magnezone

@ Air Balloon
Magnet Pull

Modest Nature
EV's:
132 HP,
252 SpA,
124 Spe.

Moves:
Substitute,
Charge Beam,
Hidden Power [Fire],
Flash Cannon.

This is my Scizor killer. This has enough EV's to outspeed it by a few points, just incase they run more than normal. The most a banded adamant Bullet Punch can do to this varient is 42%. And This will kill Scizor 3 times over with one HP Fire with Scizor having 252 SpD.
Charge beam is more powerful than TBolt after two SpA raises. And with Sub, it can help more than TBolt. Flash Cannon is for Stab/Coverage.


Conkeldurr

@ Flame Orb
Guts

Adamant Nature
EV's:
252 HP,
252 Atk,
4 Def.

Moves:
Drain Punch,
Mach Punch,
Stone Edge,
Payback.

With Flame orb, I dont like running Bulk up. So I chose both Payback and Stone Edge. This is pretty much a standard Conk, probably my most "normal" pokemon. This is to hit hard and take hits too. I used to run a Force Palm/Smellingsalt set, but that sucked.

Gyarados

@ Choice Scarf
Moxie

Adamant Nature
EV's:
252 Atk,
252 Spe,
4 Def.

Moves:
Waterfall,
Earthquake,
Stone Edge,
Ice Fang.

A suprise revenge killer to most, expecting a DD varient. Adamant as it will outspeed most pokes after having a scarf. Standard moves. Decent coverage, nothing i can think of can resist it all but the main counters to this are a WoW Jellicent/Whirlwind Skarmory.

Kyurem

@ Lum Berry
Pressure

Naive Nature
EV's:
252 Spe,
212 SpA,
44 Atk.

Moves:
Glaciate,
Draco Meteor,
Outrage,
Hidden Power [Fire].

This is my weak link, I need something else.
Glaciate is to lower speed of scarf users/fast pokemon. So others can revenge kill it. Draco Meteor is to hit hard, and Outrage is for a powerful physical move, i'm thinking of changing this to Dragon Claw if i dont change the poke. HP Fire is for coverage.


Starmie

@ Expert Belt
Natural Cure

Timid Nature
EV's:
252 SpA,
252 Spe,
4 Def.

Moves:
Surf,
Psyshock,
Hidden Power [Bug],
Ice Beam.

I know what you're thinking, HIDDEN POWER BUG? ARE YOU SERIOUS? But really, this catches Dark type pokemon off guard. I do miss Thunderbolt. But i feel like I would miss Ice Beam more. I can pretend to have a Choice item, and then get some shock kills like that.


Thank you all for reading, I would like to have some feedback, this took a long time to write up :p
I feel like i'm a good player, but not great.

 

[verbatim]

Can you elaborate as too which DD Gyarados counters fall to your own Gyarados?

Also, Hidden Power Bug on Starmie is not worth it. Any Dark type not named Crawdaunt/Sharpedo/Shiftry will actually take more damage from Surf.

 

[iamQmai]

I'm not exactly sure if i'm honest. But I like surprising people using a scarf version and with Moxie he can be a good late game sweeper without setting up.

[forgot to add abilities in OP, will do that now]

 

[verbatim]

The thing is, DD Gyarados is significantly better than the Choice Scarf Version.

After an Intimidate, Gyarados can afford to set up a single DD and go to town on the enemy's team. Your team looks pretty weak to a Payback Conkeldurr, so I am going to suggest using Bulky DD Gyarados.


Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 152 HP / 168 Def / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Taunt
- Bounce

The ev's may seem a little odd, but they can be explained. The speed ev's ensure that you will outspeed base 115 speed users with a speed boosting nature after one boost (you'll outspeed the Lati Twins, Gengar, Starmie, etc). After that, the rest of the ev's are balanced between HP and Def to make Gyarados as bulky as possible (so that you can set up on Conkeldurr). Taunt may seem a bit strange, but it allows you to score free set up opportunities on a lot of common pokemon. Ferrothorn won't be doing much to Gyarados after an intimidate (Power Whip deals 23.8% - 28.4%, Gyro Ball deals an astounding 3.8% - 4.6%) and Skarmory can't touch it at all. Waterfall is Gyarados's best offensive option, and Bounce offers decent coverage as well as a way of getting past Conkeldurr.

The basic gameplan behind this Gyarados is to get it on on a Support pokemon, taunt them as they try to status/phase him, use the turn they switch out to Dragon Dance, and go to town.

 

[iamQmai]

Thanks for that. :)
I might try that out. Should I get rid of Taunt on Gengar for something like HP Ground? (For the steel types; I really hate Focus Blast for its accuracy)

 

[verbatim]

Honestly, you may just wish to go with one of the standard Gengar sets if you wish to use Gengar (take your pick).

I personally recommend Sub Disable

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Disable
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

This will allow you to handle Pursuiting Scizors without trashing Gengar in the process. You can Substitute up as they Pursuit, breaking the sub, and then use Disable, making them unable to use Pursuit. If they have a Band, they will have to Struggle. If they don't, chances are they'll Bullet Punch next, giving you a free switch into Magezone. SubDisable is also useful for stopping status users/mono attackers.

Generally, you should not run a Hidden Power unless you need it specifically to kill something that is double weak to it (i.e., HP Fire to kill Scizor or HP Ice to kill Gliscor). Focus Blast may have shaky accuracy, but the power it gives when it hits makes it more than worthwhile.

 

[iamQmai]

I've tried that Gengar before. If i'm honest, I dont like it. I much prefer a destiny bond version. I'll probably use FB anyway, as most of the time i'll be switching into Magnezone. But if he's dead ive got it there.

And if i'm honest, i have problems with Magnezone. Which is 4x weak to Ground, and without the Earthquake from Gyara, i barely get a SE hit on it.

 

[dcae]

This is indeed original, however I do figure a weakness to a personal favorite: Expert Belt Starmie. Mine runs HP Fire to take out Steels, Thunderbolt for opposing waters, Surf for STAB, and Psychic for more STAB. This set runs through all your Pokes except Kyurem. Therefore, I suggest an obscure Salamence set. As you probably know, Salamence's usage has dropped by a lot due to Dragonite's rise. The set I propose is a Scarfed MoxieMence. I use it to great satisfaction:

Salamence @Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP 252 Atk 252 Spe
Jolly nature
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Aqua Tail

This set is so unused that many shall switch in a frail Ice type to outspeed and KO only to be knocked out by Dragon Claw. Standard Expert Belt Starmie is always OHKOed by Dragon Claw. Every KO leads to an Attack boost, making this an invaluable revenge killer. I am unsure what Poke to replace, but if you choose to try it out, I'm sure you'll figure it out. Good luck with your unorthodox team!

 

[iamQmai]

Is Moxie released yet on Salamence? And Aqua Tail is a 4G move, so i cant use that with Moxie. Otherwise that sounds good.

 

[toshimelonhead]

Hi there,

This is a decent team that could use some touchups. Many of these sets are unique just to be unique and not to serve a competitive purpose. While being unique is essential, the first goal of competitive Pokemon is to win first and be unique second. For example, I was one of the first to use Scarfmoxiedos on a competitive team with success. That set only worked because I was using a rain team that could handle Jellicent, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn with a SubCM Rachi. Salamence outclasses it otherwise. For this team, I would think the following set would work better:

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Substitute
- Bounce
- Dragon Dance


There's still some surprise here as this is a newer set, but this Gyarados can set up on much more of the metagame and have a chance to sweep more. This set, for instance, beats Jellicent one-on-one as Scald does not break its subs.

I think it is possible to upgrade Kyurem. Glaciate doesn't really work because a lot of Scarfers still outspeed Kyurem even at -1. I think Latios provides a better fit for the team because it's both faster and stronger without the weakness to SR (more on that later). Scarf and Specs are both options here, but I like Specs better because of the sheer power it brings. Here's the set I'd use:

Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Dragon Pulse

You can experiment with the moves if you want to, but Specs Latios runs Draco Meteor + three coverage moves of your choice. Options like HP Fire and Trick could go over Psyshock or Dragon Pulse, but HP Fire means losing a speed tie to other Latios and Gengar. Since Magnezone takes out Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and Scizor, HP Fire does not seem as necessary.

Now for Gengar. Generally Endeavor pokemon do not work as well in Gen5 because Sandstorm and Hail break Sashes to prevent Gengar from doing anything. Since you don't seem to like the Sub/Disable set, I'm going with another idea: Mamoswine. Mamo can provide Rocks and a small surprise factor since it's more powerful than people give it credit for at base 130 attack. Endeavor works on Mamo because it is not affected by either Sand or Hail damage. Here is a set to replace Gengar:

Mamoswine (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Shard
- Endeavor
- Earthquake

It works well as a lead because it gets rocks up and can use Endeavor + Ice Shard to take out opponents.

The last thing we need is a revenge killer. Choice Scarf Starmie is one option but I think using Thunderbolt over HP Bug and perhaps Life Orb over Expert Belt provides an upgrade because HP Bug does not net any additional OHKOs. Sometimes the Standard is Standard because it's the best. Since Volcarona still remains a problem (Gyarados provides some help but not enough), I am thinking of replacing Conkeldurr with Scarf Terrakion. Scarf Terrakion is another lure for Scizor because Scizor has to use Bullet Punch to KO it. Here is the set:

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- X-Scissor
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat

Most of the time you'll be using Stone Edge or Close Combat to get some cheap kills and clean up whatever the rest of the team can't handle. It also provides good synergy with the rest of the team because it can lure Scizor and bulky waters that Magnezone can take care of.

Good luck with the team. Hope this helps :)