Thundurus's Legacy (An Gen 5 OU Team)

I think it is safe to proclaim that the OU metagame currently is in a very stable state. As many overpowered threats such as Thundurus, Tornadus-T, and Deoxys-D have been banned, we now see a solidification of the usage list in competitive scenes. Though it is very balanced if seen positively, this also freezes any creativity and exploration which may have been existent earlier this year. This is with good reason, to be fair, as many “original” pokemon are very hard to use, have very small niches, or is just outclassed altogether.

For some time now, amazingly powerful weathers such as Rain and Sun have been running amok in the metagame. Because of the powerful boosts these give to particular pokemon, I was mostly convinced that weatherless offense, of all things, was a very outdated and unviable playstyle. However, said play has its own benefits. The largest of these is an additional slot for a teammember. Not limited to weather inducers such as Ninetails and Politoed, this encourages more synergy and teamwork than ever. Additionally, it balances your win/loss ratio towards certain teams. The weather war is a critical stage for weather versus weather moments, but as long as weather is countered said weatherless teams have an large advantage on their win condition not swayed by weather.

This team is an attempt to prove, in the rapidly solidifying metagame, that weatherless teams are still up and kicking. To be fair, it has carried me fairly well, to the 1400s as its peak. Needless to say, the skill of the player himself comes into play, so the peak does not determine the team. I am not what you would call extremely competent, but I am fairly versed in competitive play, thus the rank.

Over at Pokemon Online, a Thundurus retest is being held. If things go well, it may be reintroduced to OU, with Smogon following suit, and so forcing me to retire this team. I really have mixed emotions over the possible unban, but if it does happen, I'll probably retire this team or change it drastically to counter the oncoming change in metagame.

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THE TEAM


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Thundurus (Thundurus-T) (M) @ Electric Gem
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SAtk / 128 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Agility


Thundurus-T is one of the most powerful pokemon in the metagame. Though it lacks its Incarnate counterpart's sky-high speed, this is remedied by the 145 base special attack it is endowed with, as well as many boosting options, making it arguably more powerful. Thundurus-T also has access to both Agility and Nasty Plot, giving it potential for a uncounterable double dancer. However, this set sacrifices power for coverage; with only one setup move, Thundurus-T can incorporate Focus Blast in its arsenal, which hits things like Ferrothorn very hard, where one would need several Nasty Plots to 1HKO it with HP Ice./FONT]

Thunderbolt is Thundurus-T's main STAB option. Though its power is lowered somewhat due to the lack of perfectly accurate Thunder, Thunderbolt can be used even when the weather changes, making it the optimal choice. With Electric Gem, Thunderbolt is just brutal, and never is lower than a 2HKO on anything other than Blissey and Chansey. Next, Hidden Power Ice demolishes Ground types which is immune to its STAB. The pseudo-boltbeam combination destroys most of the metagame, or at least leaves giant holes in them. Focus Blast completes the coverage move array, 1HKO'ing things like Lanturn and Magnezone, which resists both moves previously shown. It also leaves dents in Quagsire, one of the only real “counters”.

Electric Gem is an unusual choice of a move, but is nevertheless very effective. Avoiding both Life Orb's recoil, Choice Specs' lack of versatility and Expert Belt's lack of power, it provides a boost of power that allows Thundurus to KO things before it sets up or to demolish special walls after. Inspired by Rock Gem Terrakion, it has a very large surprise factor as well. Hand in hand with Terrakion, unlike the classic team framework this set functions both as a wallbreaker (aka powerhouse) and a sweeper. Because the win conditions for the two are so different, I am able to utilize the one with the higher chance of sweeping and use the other to break apart the opponent's team.

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Terrakion @ Salac Berry
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat

Terrakion is one of the most fearsome sweepers in OU. Sporting a massive 129 Attack and 108 Speed, it outspeeds and hits hard on many top threats in the metagame. It has the ability to switch into Tyranitar and get a potential Attack boost, making it a monster. However, it is still capable of being revenge killed. This set aims to fix that. Salac Berry is, though used by many players, a relatively underused option on Terrakion compared to the multitude of Band, Scarf and Life Orb variants. It can afford to run only Stone Edge and Close Combat as its attacks because of their sheer power and coverage, leaving Substitute and Swords Dance as the utility options.

Though Thundurus, if used as a wallbreaker and powerhouse, is played sacrifically to get boosts while taking damage, Terrakion is completely the opposite. It sets up on slower, stall pokemon like Ferrothorn, Forretress and Blissey. Make the mistake of giving it one free turn, and the results will be terrible. Substitute allows Terrakion to retreat from the multitude of status moves flying around, and can also give it a free turn if the opponent uses a non-attacking move or switches to a Terrakion counter. From there, Terrakion can easily KO the opponent if it is a faster, frail sweeper like Gengar or set up a Swords Dance as it breaks its substitute. From there, Terrakion can proceed to use Substitute repeatedly to gain its Speed boost, which essentially makes it faster than everything below Scarf base 110s like the aforementioned Gengar and Latios.

Even though Terrakion makes for an excellent wallbreaking and early-game sweeping force (which sometimes runs away with the game with a 6-0 in its hands), depending on the opponent's pokemon it should be used late-game to set up. Trying to sweep with a Scizor in the opposing barracks is suicide, as well as a Ferrothorn which may have Rocky Helmet, which could chip off your 25% health and make a sweep a meaningless death. However, in Rain Stall Thundurus is generally more competent, so one needs to check the easiest route to victory before sending out one of the two offensive forces.

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Celebi @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Seed Bomb
- U-turn
- Recover

When asked about Celebi's viable sets, the only ones that come to mind are specially defensive, specially offensive and Baton Pass. However, Celebi's balanced stats just as well accomodates a physical set just as well. One of the main reasons to use a physical set is to destroy unsuspecting special walls like specially defensive Rotom-W and Tyranitar, which often stay in on Celebi because they know they can take a hit. Indeed, in the case of Tyranitar it nearly almost always stays in first turn to set up Stealth Rocks before switching out, fearing nothing from Giga Drain, or to Pursuit trap it. Seed Bomb 1HKO'es Tyranitar with no Defense investment, as well as some other notable walls.

The other purpose of this set is to pressure opposing teams. Many times the opponent does not have a check to this Celebi set. For opposing stall teams, Seed Bomb and U-Turn hits hard on many special walls coming in to supposedly wall Celebi, while Sucker Punch anihilates speedy sweepers. Talking about priority... You really didn't think I would leave this team without some, did you? Sucker Punch hits quite hard on even things not weak to it, while it completely... knocks out things like Latios and Starmie that wish Celebi a nasty death. It ends up quite the contrary. Often this suprise factor gains it a KO critical to the outcome of the match.

Celebi's role in this team is quite versatile. For starters, it can take Water attacks aimed at my other pokemon exeptionally well due to its good base stats, even in rain, making it my go-to rain check after Rotom-W. Next, it utilizes surprise to its advantage by denting special walls for Thundurus to sweep. It can also use Sucker Punch to kill off weakened pokemon, as well as hit sweepers hard. It also keeps pressure constantly on the opponent by making them predict between a speedy SP, a hard-hitting Seed Bomb in case they stay in, and a scouting U-Turn that actually does damage and gains momentum if the opponent switches out. All in all, this set is very viable, and works wonders on this team.

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Rotom (Rotom-W) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 148 SAtk / 108 SDef
Calm Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

I simply cannot stress how good Rotom-W's defensive typing is. Only weak to the rare Grass-type move, resisting Fire and Steel (and we all know how important this is. *cough Scizor *cough) and immune to Ground for starters, it is a great pokemon in today's metagame. Though Rotom-W is often seen utilizing a Scarf set, its balanced stats also pave way for a specially defensive set. This particular variant prioritizes bulk, but still values power. It is my main defense against the omnipotent Hydro Pumps and Ice Beams in rain teams, where Celebi is just too offensive to take them. As a medium-speed pivot, Rotom-W packs several effective moves in its arsenal. Hydro Pump is the obligatory water STAB, which packs surprising power for such a defensive pokemon, and can threaten out many Ground types which roll around in sand teams. Volt Switch is its counterpart, allowing Rotom to act as a pivot against fast sweepers, sponging an attack before giving a free switch to one of my frailer pokemon. On the support side, Will'o Wisp is a nice option. Because of Rotom-W's nice typing, it can switch into various physical attackers such as Scizor, Landorus-T and Tyranitar, and cripple them permanently with a damage-reducing burn. Finally, Pain Split rounds off this versatile moveset by giving Rotom a recovery move. Though not always good (the embarrassment when the opponent switches in a half-dead pokemon into your Pain Split and actually heals that pokemon!), it is great against pokemon such as Blissey, which has half of its HP shaved off with Pain Split due to Rotom-W's very low HP.

Rotom-W is a very important part of my Fire-Water-Grass core, and serves as the most defensive member. While Celebi hits hard on speedy sweepers and wallbreaks bulky waters, and Chandelure revenge kills various threats in the metagame, Rotom-W is meant to sponge hits and pass off to the speedy sweepers when the time is right. That does not mean it is incapable of attacking; quite the contrary. Rotom-W is an essential force in the offensive combo, gaining momentum, taking out Sandstorm teams, and crippling priority users to enable speedy sweepers to sweep. Its Hydro Pump hits surprisingly hard, and can easily grab a chunk off any pokemon that does not resist it.

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Chandelure (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick

Who would have thought. Chandelure in OU. Don't worry, I have my reasons. Chandelure is one of the best Scarfers for this particular team. First of all, its impressive 145 Special Attack turns it into a powerhouse even without an item boost. Its excellent ability, Flash Fire only increases its potential by absorbing Fire attacks and making its offensive prowess even better. Chandelure has decent bulk that ables it to come in more times than frailer revenge killers that can only enter the field after a teammate's KO. Not that it matters much. Sporting 3 immunities, two of which are very common types, Fighting and Fire, Chandelure makes for an excellent counters to many of the top threats in OU.

This pokemon is also my best defense against sun teams. Immune to Fire attacks that would have plowed its way through only resistant types from the likes of Darmanitan and Victini, resisting Grass attacks from major Chlorophyll sweepers, and being able to abuse the sun itself to demolish such creatures. It must take care not to be trapped by Dugtrio and the rare Gotchitelle (have I spelt that name right?). Though any of its STAB attacks will usually outspeed and demolish them both, one must have Stealth Rocks always on the field so that damn Dug won't kill off Chandy with 1HP left.

This sun team whatnot leads us to the ultimate question. Heatran or Chandelure? Heatran would seem nice for several reasons. Its steel typing grants it many resists and an immunity, and so giving it more opportunities to switch in. It also has more bulk all around. However, Chandelure has some aces in its bag. First off, it sports a much higher special attack that gains it some critical KO's. Secondly, Mach Punch anybody? Heatran gets demolished by Breloom, a very common pokemon in OU, while Chandelure shrugs off anything it throws at it with the exception of Spore, and 1HKOs. Finally, Chandelure can actually hit those pesky bulky waters. Things like Swampert and Jellicent are full stops for Heatran, while Chandelure can destroy Swampert with Energy Ball, and with some prior damage, even 2HKO incoming specially defensive Jellicent. Now wouldn't that be called coverage.

Finally, there is one option I haven't talked about; Trick. Chandelure calls in a surprising number of special walls like Chansey and Blissey. Tricking them a Choice item cripples them, while giving you more versatility. Of course, trying tp hit the pink blobs with Fire Blasts are useless, but the time can easily be used setting up with Terrakion or Thundurus. Tactics, people. Tactics.

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Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sdef / 4 Def
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin

Now we have the Hazards Machine of the team, straight from Silph Co. In all seriousness, Forretress is my main source of hazards (hell, it's my only source of hazards!), a sturdy (pun very intended) check for the various Dragons that roam OU, and a REALLY bulky pivot. I mean, you don't really bring in Rotom-W to take two Outrages from a Choice Band Dragonite, do you?

Though Forretress is often seen with multiple variants of hazards, I chose to opt out of Spikes in return for two offensive moves. Firstly, Volt Switch is an incredible move for Forretress. Though it is unSTABed, comes off its lower Special Attack stat, and has a measly 70 Base Power, it allows Forretress to act as an bulky pivot, utilizing its low speed to its advantage. Because Forretress usually moves last, it can sponge any status or damage and give a frail teammate free entry. It is also a great move against Outrages, as it can take two and pass off to a teammate better suited for dealing with them.

Now that's settled, we'll move on to the next role. The reason I picked Forretress above Ferrothorn and Skarmory is just this: Rapid Spin, This team really doesn't appreciate hazards. Stealth Rocks hurts Thundurus, Spikes destroy Terrakion, and Toxic Spikes wreaks havoc on most of my team. Getting Terrakion poisoned isn't really my first priority. Forretress, courtesy of its Steel type, is immune to toxic, meaning that it can switch in anytime it likes to Spin them away. It is also my go-to pokemon when I see a Blissey on the field. Forretress doesn't mind Thunder Wave, shrugs off Toxic, and I can do whatever I want.




THREAT LIST

NOTE: These positions are from Pokemon Online's usage statistics for April 2013. Though a June version has been released on Smogon, the April stats were the latest when this RMT was written.

1 – Scizor
This team has several good checks. Chandelure can switch into anything but pursuit (which you can't “switch” into), Rotom-W can take a Bullet Punch and retaliate with Will'o Wisp. Forretress takes all of its attacks. However, if it is a Swords Dance set it can set up on Forretress.

2 – Politoed

Rotom-W can take any of its attacks well other than Specs Focus Blast, and Volt Switch out. Thundurus can hit it hard or force it out. Celebi is a good pivot while also threatening Politoed.

3 – Jirachi

Chandelure is a good check, immune to Body Slam and Fire Punch, and resisting Iron Head. It can hit back with a super effective STAB Fire Blast.

4 – Ferrothorn

Again, Chandelure is a great check. It can KO it, cripple it with Trick, or just KO it. Which happens most of the time. Terrakion can set up as it sets up hazards.

5 – Tyranitar

Celebi hits hard on its weaker Defense with a STAB Seed Bomb. Rotom-W deserves a special mention, as it can cripple Tyranitar with a burn, hit hard or scout. Forretress can switch into anything other than Fire Blast.

6 - Dragonite

A big threat admittedly, but Forretress can take on Outrage/Earthquake coverage Dragonite. If I make the mistake of letting one set up, I'll sacrifice Chandelure to get damage on it and then KO it with Celebi's Sucker Punch.

7 – Heatran

Rotom-W is a solid check. Terrakion can force it out and pick up a Substitute along the way. Chandelure can put it in a stalemate.

8 – Latios

Celebi's Sucker Punch 1HKO'es it. Forretress can wall Draco Meteors, then switch to Rotom-W as it fires off a HP Fire.

9 – Rotom-W

Celebi destroys more defensive variants. Scarfers are walled by Celebi nonetheless, but can be very hard to deal solid damage on as it just Volt Switches away. Best tactic is to hide Chandelure's Scarf, then outspeed and KO with a Energy Ball.

10 – Terrakion

A very large threat. All of its “checks” are conditional. Chandelure can switch into normal or Band variants' Close Combat and hit it with an Energy Ball, but it gets anihilated by Stone Edge. Same for Celebi. Forretress can wall it, but it is a good game if it is a Salac Berry variant.

11 - Breloom

Once something has become sleep fodder (most probably Forretress) Chandelure can take anything it throws at it and KO'es back easily.

12 - Keldeo

Best bet is to sponge an attack with Celebi, which resists its STABs and takes pitiful damage from Icy Wind or HP Ice, while hitting back hard. Thundurus KO'es easily.

13 - Starmie

Enter the Celebi. Sucker Punch demolishes variants thinking of a usual set and trying to take it out with Ice Beam. Chandelure can also outspeed and KO with Shadow Ball.

14 - Tentacruel

Though Thundurus is strong enough to deal good damage, it is so frail that it takes massive damage from a rain-boosted Scald. Unless it is being played sacrifically to remove this Terrakion check, Rotom-W is the best choice to weaken it with Volt Switch or Pain Split, and use Thundurus later to KO weakened versions.

15 - Gengar

Gengar is a regular switch into Celebi, making for a easy KO unless it's a Substitute/Disable set. In that case, you're screwed. Thundurus can predict it coming in and KO it (It really is quite frail. A Electric Gem boosted Thunderbolt will 1HKO it).

16 - Garchomp

Same drill. Celebi can kill weakened versions with priority. Forretress can wall all Choice versions locked into anything other than Fire Fang / Blast.

17 – Landorus-T

See Garchomp.

18 - Mamoswine

Forretress can wall it. Terrakion can easily KO it. Chandelure can easily KO it. But none of those can come in on a Earthquake. Rotom-W resists one of its STABs, is immune to the other, and can 1HKO with Hydro Pump.

19 - Celebi

I presume we're talking about special sets. Sucker Punch from physical Celebi will take it out, but beware of U-Turn when switching in. Chandelure can wall all versions, while Forretress can wall all utility ones (with no HP Fire).

20 - Forretress

Ever heard of Chandelure?

21 - Salamence

Scarf version is hell itself. Forretress can wall all Outrages from this guy, while Thundurus can hit it hard and take it down. Once again, Celebi can pick off weakened Salamence.

22 - Landorus

A good pokemon, but gets outsped by Terrakion and 1HKO'ed by a SD boosted Stone Edge. Rotom-W is immune to Earth Power from special sets, and can weather a Stone Edge from a physical one and strike back with a Hydro Pump.

23 – Thundurus-T

Terrakion can hit it hard with Stone Edge or set up on it, Thundurus can outspeed and take it out with a HP Ice, Celebi can pick off weakened variants, Rotom-W can take a Thunder and hit hard with Hydro Pump, Chandelure outspeeds and takes it down with a powerful Fire Blast. No worries.

24 – Skarmory

The combination of Chandelure and Rotom-W walls it to no end. Forretress can lay hazards alongside it then Rapid Spin them away. In this case, Skarmory is more dead weight then a useful wall on the opponent's team.

25 – Ninetales

Chandelure, once again. In all seriousness, Terrakion can force it out and set up. But Chandelure is definitely the best counter. Immune to Will'o Wisp, resists Energy Ball / Solar Beam, and has a neutral STAB attack to destroy it. All in a day's work.

26 – Jellicent

How the mighty has fallen... I swear that Jelly was being used much more than this. Anyway, Thundurus, Rotom, and of course Chandelure. As well as Celebi, which practically assasinates all specially defensive versions.

27 – Magnezone

If it comes in while Forretress lays down hazards it could be a problem. However, if I predict and use Volt Switch as it comes in, Terrakion or Chandy can take it out. No sweat. However, it does threaten quite a lot of my team as well as resisting some key moves.

28 – Volcarona

Stealth Rocks. Stealth Rocks. STEALTH ROCKS. I cannot stress this enough. With some prior damage and Stealth Rocks, Celebi's Sucker Punch can KO it. Otherwise, Chandelure takes on all of its moves (and I mean all. Fiery Dance, Fire Blast, Bug Buzz, Giga Drain, HP Ice...)

29 – Gliscor

Poison Heal Gliscor can be a problem. However if Thundurus doesn't get Toxic'ed on its way in it can break its substite as it gets statused and force it out, or KO it if it stays in hoping for me to overpredict. Rotom is immune to STAB Earthquake, and resists Acrobatics meaning it is a great check for offensive ones. However, it does not perform well against SubStall variants because of Hydro Pump's low accuracy and PP.

30 – Gyarados

Other than Intimidate, I really have no trouble with this thing. Rotom-W can threaten it out with a four times effective Volt Switch, ditto with Thundurus and Thunderbolt.Terrakion can Stone Edge it to death as well.



IMPORTABLE (PO Format)


Thundurus (Thundurus-T) (M) @ Electric Gem
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SAtk / 128 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Agility

Terrakion @ Salac Berry
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat

Celebi @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Seed Bomb
- U-turn
- Recover

Rotom (Rotom-W) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 148 SAtk / 108 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Chandelure (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick

Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin



IN CONCLUSION

I want to say a big thank you for all my friends helping me build this, as well as all the contributors, of course, on Smogon and Pokemon Online alike. I'm hoping to use a variation of this if Thundurus gets unbanned, and I'll probably repost it when it finalizes, but until then, this is Kabatic, signing out. I hope you enjoyed reading this RMT, and please leave any opinions or comments, and criticism is welcomed.


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Hey, sorry it took me so long to get to this. Cool team! I'll have you know that Thundurus-T is my favorite sweeper in OU, so I would be happy to rate any team that uses it.

The team has nice synergy, so I don't think I'll suggest changing any specific members, but there are a couple move set changes that can help your team with a few of the threats to it. Most of the Pokémon you mentioned in your threat list that you had at least some trouble with were more offensive threats: Dragonite, Gengar, Salamence, Terrakion, etc. I think one reason this may be the case is that your team doesn't focus on beating offensive teams, but rather defensive ones. Nasty Plot Thundurus-T is great against stall teams, but finds it hard to set up against offensive ones. Sub Salac Terrakion has a similar problem. Often not being able to set up its speed and a Swords Dance, so it gets revenged pretty easily. This leaves you with few win conditions against such teams, and may be why you find yourself struggling against them. However, I have a few suggestions that may help with these problems. Firstly, I recommend changing Thundurus-T to and Agility set. The Agility set, once set up, has few problems taking on offensive teams, since most of the time they lack ways of dealing with it's insane power even without a Nasty Plot. all you need to do to beat things like Keldeo and Terrakion (which would normally check your set well) is set up to +2. Then they no longer threaten you. Same goes for Dragonite and Salamence. Neither of them can do much to you if you're at +2. Also, this shouldn't be that hard to set up since you can come in on Choice-locked Scizor or Chomp or something like that. Next, I would change Volt Switch to Gyro Ball on Forretress. Gyro Ball gives you a way to beat Gengar instead of relying on the unreliable Celebi Sucker Punch. It also makes sure that Forretress has something it can actually do back to those Outrage-locked Dragons, since Volt Switch won't be doing anything. Finally, Terrakion won't be able to set up on you if you can smack it hard with a super effective base 150 attack. Overall, I think Gyro Ball has more use on the set you've chosen than Volt Switch, though you might miss the momentum and way to escape Magnezone. On the bright side, though, if Magnezone kills you with HP Fire, you can then go into Terrakion for a free sub and possibly a sweep. Same goes for Agility Thundurus-T!

Again, sorry it took me so long to get to this. Hope I was able to help! Good luck with the team!

Changes
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Nasty Plot--->Agility

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Volt Switch--->Gyro Ball
 
Thanks for the rate, Halcyon of Light! After extensive testing, I wholeheartedly agree that NP Thundurus-T should be replaced with Agility. Though the set lacks the pure power of the Nasty Plot set it makes up for it in the ability to outspeed almost all of the unboosted metagame, as well as some scarfers.

However, after trying out several variations on Forretress I have decided on replacing Spikes with Gyro Ball. Because Forretress is still somewhat of a setup bait for Dragons and such, I feel that I do not have the time to lay down extensive layers of Spikes down, thus the change. Of course, I will be testing out other sets, such as Hidden Power Ice to deal with Landorus, Dragons and Gliscor.

In the meantime, I will also be testing out Breloom instead of Celebi. Though I am somewhat doubtful of its defensive capabilities against Rain-boosted moves, it does have a nice support move in Spore as well as technician-boosted moves in Mach Punch and Bullet Seed.

Any more advice or criticism would be greatly appreciated!
 
Hey KabaticStorm, thanks for sending me a request! That physically attacking Celebi set is really cool so props for using it. As said before, this team looks really solid thanks to its combination of synergy and offensive threats so I won't be suggesting any huge changes to it but I do have some ideas that could help you out.

First thing I noticed is your spread on your Thundurus-T set. I prefer a bulkier spread with a Modest nature for the Agility set. I would recommend using a Modest Nature with 252 sp att/ 128 HP/ 128 speed. This allows you to outspeed all choice scarf users after one Agility boost, as well as Venusaur in the Sun and Stoutland in the sand provided they are running standard spreads.

Next, you should be running a Timid Nature on your Chandelure. By running a Modest nature you are outsped by scarfed Politoed which is a pretty common threat, and one that could potentially clean up your team if Celebi and Rotom-W are worn down.

Lastly, since my changes were pretty minor, I'll just throw out something you might want to test out but would really just be up to personal preference. That would be to try using Memento over Trick on your Scarfed Chandelure. The reason I think this could work on your team is because it seems to be set around your bulky core of Celebi, Rotom-W and Forretress which can all VoltTurn out to either get a better matchup or give one of your setup sweepers an opportunity to set up. Memento goes along with this strategy as it would allow you a free switch in to either Terrakion or Thundurus-T and give you an easy setup while your opponents attack stats are cut in half.

Hopefully my suggestions help! Good luck with the team and let me know how it works!
 
Thanks for the rate MCBarrett! Though surprisingly I haven't seen many ScarfToeds yet, I agree that a little bit of speed never is bad. This also ensures I outspeed +1 Dragonite, one of the main reasons I use Chandelure over Heatran. Next, I've tried out the bulky Thundurus-T set, and though it loses a little speed, the 252 Timid was overkill to begin with, and I find the HP EVs give Thundurus a lot more survivability and room to mispredict and switch into a HP Ice instead of a Thunderbolt... In all seriousness, I'm still trying out the Memento Chandelure set. Unfortunately, it rids me of a important defense against Toxicroak. My original game plan was to trick it while it Sucker Punched, then hit it relatively hard with Terrakion while behind a Sub, while receiving a attack boost due to Justified. I've kind of gone on a Toxicroak tangent... But anyway thanks for the rate! I appreciate it!
 
Fine team you have here! Love all the creativity you put on it without making it a pile of rubbish.

First off, I suggest you run Modest over Timid on Thundurus. Although the extra speed can be helpful in some cases (i.e.,Vs. DD Salamence unboosted) you usually would want the extra power since you have Agility over Nasty Plot. At +2 you're almost gaurunteed to outspeed everything so a postitive speed nature is not needed.

Second, I would run a SubLiechi with Rock Polish set over SubSalac+SD. Basically the same reason you're running an Agilty Thundurus. At +2, you're pretty much guaranteed to outspeed EVERYTHING and get off a powerful hit (Terrakion is still scary without boost). With SubSalac, you're risking speed ties/getting outspeed with/by base 108+. It's also much easier to set up than your current set. You can RP on the switch and proceed to set up Subs to get your attack boost, if that's even needed, without being forced out by faster scarfers. It's better than setting up a Sub on the switch, just to get a speed boost and attempting to get the SD up along the way (which need happens usually).

The rest seems fine to me! Love that you're using a physical Celebi! I've tried an SD set with Zen Headbutt, Seed Bomb and Sucker Punch which worked out okay for me. Just could never put it into a team that it belonged in. Good job! Love the use of Chandy and Forry, 2 Pokes I rarely see in OU. Good luck!

Hope I helped!

B)
 
Thanks RoyalBlue! Starting off, I have made the change from Timid to Modest on Thundurus-T. Though it becomes quite slow without a boost now I have chipped off some EVs in speed as well, on the bright side it practically always 1HKOs things with an Electric Gem Boost. However, I am considering Life Orb now that it has a little more bulk.

Next, I am currently testing out SubLiechi, but I find Salac is much better vs Stall teams, since +1 Stone Edge won't KO specially defensive Jellicent, or Close Combat against Skarmory, which is absolutely essential since Skarmory can whirlwind the boosts away. After all, this Terrakion set opts for sacrificial wall breaking at the beginning or late game sweeping, where Scarfers should be eliminated. However, Liechi works better against Tanks and Heavy Offense, as the Liechi berry activates without the risk of Terrakion being KOed, and gives it the power to break though sturdy tanks.

Anyway, thanks a lot!
 
Got the request.

Firstly, things like EB Keldeo and SD Toxicroak look like threats to this team even though they shouldn't be. Celebi is defeated from HP Bug (not to mention Keldeo OHKO to 2HKOs everything after that), and Toxicroak just sets up and kills everything you have. Sun teams with Venu + Heatran spell doom for this team, nothing stops Dragonite from setting up and easily defeating you. You have problems switching into Mamoswine, and every Pokemon on your team is 2HKOed to OHKOed by Specs Tornadus. LO Analytical Starmie looks annoying too. I could probably come up with more but I have a few changes in mind so let's not waste time.

1. This team is way too offensive to be utilizing Forretress, whom looks like it robs any momentum you try to preserve / maintian. I would replace Forretress for Custap Berry Skarmory, who gets more hazards, is a provisional check to Dragonite and Mamoswine, and gives you more momentum.

2. Chandulure is really bad for this team. It adds SR weakness and although its helpful against sun I can name a few other Pokemon whom fit bettter. The loss of Forrey makes you suspectable to the Lati@s twins, so replacing Chandy for Choice Band Scizor would probably be a good idea. It's bullet punch is really essential for this team, making Mamoswine, Dragonite, Toxicroak, Tornadus a bit more managable. It's steel typing allows you to pursuit trap the Lati's as well so this is a really good addition.

Furthermore, Scizor pairs greatly with Rotom-W and the VoltTurn core helps provide huge momentum bonuses for Terrakion and ThundyT.

Scizor can defeat Chloro sweepers with Bullet and lure in Heatran's and superpower so it's also a decent match up vs. sun.

3. I would prefer you use a slightly bulkier Celebi than that pitiful set you have right now. You say you use LO Celebi to weaken special walls, but isn't that why Terrakion is there? Isn't he the core established with Thundy-T? Why make Celebi do the same job when it clearly has a different role to play -- like checking rain. I feel that the forgoing of offense for a bit more bulk is essential for things like Keldeo. Also, Celebi needs to forgo it's physical attacks for some special ones -- like Giga Drain and Psychic. Psychic checks Amongus / Breloom / Toxicroak, which is vital for this team's success.

As for the new evs -- 252 Hp / 144 SpD / 112 Spe with a Calm nature should suffice. The evs outpace Modest, maximum invested Heatran and Jolly Scizor, which allows you to grab the U-turn momentum on them. It can also outpace Adamant Mamoswine (but most are Jolly so watch out). The only problem is that Scizor can still pursuit trap you, so you might want to just consider Baton Pass. Both are equally viable so I won't bold the change since it's a matter of preference, but I prefer not being trapped by Zor and TTar.

4. That Rotom-W set needs some tweaking. Try 252 Hp / 232 SpD / 24 Spe with a Calm Nature. Tanking Tornadus' Hurricane is worth it and being able to check LO analystical Starmie is also important since Celebi can't do this.

5. Lastly, I'd replace Electric Gem for Zap Plate. If you want to avoid LO recoil while giving a better boost to Thunderbolt, Electric Gem is way too temp. to utilize. Rock Gem Terrakion does not work the same way Electric Gem does here -- Rock Gem was used to have a 97% chance of OHKO'ing defensive Gliscor at +2, while Electric Gem isn't being used to nab a surprise KO on it's counters and checks. Zap Plate is a temp. boost to Thunderbolt that you can utilize the entire match andd therefore is worth it. I'd reconsider LO, but Zap Plate is a better alternative to Electric Gem in my opinion.

Finally, to comment on some of the other rates:

1. SubLeichi is probably not a good idea. SubSD is more reliable against stall. SubLeichi is harder to utilize against any playstyle and I just don't find it worth using over LO Double Dance Terrakion, which is the best set to use if you want to really utilize RP; which isn't really needed here.

2. Modest over Timid on ThundyT is something that I already so on the OP, but yeah it's better.


Good Luck! :)
 
Hey man, I'm here to rate your team

So, while looking over your team I don't see any huge weaknesses. You have decent synergy and a pretty nice balance of offence and defence. However, I beleive my few suggestions will make your team better :]

I'm going to start off by saying replace Chandelure with Heatran. I know you talk about this in your over view, and your reasoning's for using Chandelure over Heatran I don't think make sense, and hopefully I can explain to you why Heatran is better. First off, Heatran doesn't have an SR weakness, taking pressure off of Forretress to spin. Secondly, Heatran is still beating Sun teams (that lack Dugtrio), and I don't think you care much about Breloom's Mach Punch since you have Celebi. Also, I don't think Trick is that big of a deal, I mean sure you can cripple Chansey on the switch, but you can still be Chansey regardless of Chandelure or not. Heatran also gives you that amazing Celetran core. Here's the set

Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 SDef / 248 HP / 12 Spd
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Protect
- Roar
- Toxic

Lava Plume is used for STAB and 30% chance burn rate. Roar is used for phazing purposes. Toxic is the hit bulky water type switch in's, and Protect is for scouting purposes and racking up residual damage. 248 HP gives you a magic HP number (meaning to can switch into SR more times), while 12 speed EV are used to speed creep opposing Heatran.

Secondly, I feel your team is pretty weak to Terrakion. I think this suggestion might seem pretty weird, but I think it makes sense. Replace Thundurus-T with Landorus-T. Landorus-T is a solid check to Terrakion and other physical attackers (like Scizor, Toxicroak and Tyranitar). However, I understand you still want to be sweeping, so I'm going to suggest the Double Dance set.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spd
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Max attack, and enough speed to outspeed Scarf Latios at +2. Rest into HP. EarthQuake coverage, and SD / RP.

Also, just a small idea. You could put SR on Heatran and Spikes on Forre, racking up more residual damage if you wish.

Overall, I think it's a really solid team, and I hope you like my suggestions :]
 
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