Time for the chopping block, Scizor...

darthbob

darthbob

**EDIT: MADE SOME CHANGES TO ORIGINAL TEAM**
Nixed Scizor for Latios and changed some held items and movesets and added nicknames cause I can.
(Other changes are beside original crossed out)

Alright, check it. I've been using this team for quite some time, and I've done pretty darn well. I think, though, it's time for scizor to retire. He's a glaring fire weakness (which I have plenty of as it is) and really doesn't have the payoff that he used to. I'm thinking of replacing him with Latios/as. Thoughts? Builds?

Also, of course, please rate my team


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Ferrothorn (Stalin) (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Leech Seed
- Toxic Thunder Wave
- Power Whip
- Explosion Spikes

Ferrothorn is a straight wall. The strategy is to toxic, leech seed, stall, explode when HP gets too low. Plus, the Iron barbs/Rocky helmet combo is a deadly one for physical attackers. Thinking of subbing explosion for spikes. Power whip is, of course, so that Ferro won't be totally useless after setting up and so that he has a decent attack option. Originally, I had him set with ingrain and a big root instead of rocky helm to boost his recovery options and make him nothing but a staller, however, without a mean look setup and the inability to switch after ingrain, I couldn't find much use for that setup in OU. EVs are all defensive to increase walling capabilty and to max out that life bar. The extra SDef EVs are to survive those darn flamethrower abusers that are all over the place.





381Latios.png

Latios (Bill Cosby) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EV's 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid Nature (+Spd / -Atk)

-Draco Meteor
-Psyshock
-Surf
-(undecided, currently using Roost since my HP is psychic and I don't generally hack)

Looking for suggestions
Life orb Latios is a force to be reckoned with and is a potent special sweeper. Found great success as a secondary lead in, and I found he can still outspeed and OHKO non-scarfed Garchomp after taking the stat reduction from Draco Meteor once which is oh-so-useful against unsuspecting enemies predicting a swap after I take out the lead-in. Did this successfully twice today (the first time I just spaced on the stat reduction, but was pleasantly surprised!) Looking for something to put in slot 4.


jellicent.jpg

Jellicent (UJelly?) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Recover
- Scald
- Shadow ball
- Ice Beam Toxic (renders Blissey near useless)

Jellicent is my ace in the hole. I've won many a match with Jellicent as my last man standing. His role is to basically just hang out and be bulky, burn the enemy, crippling physical attackers, and outlast while dealing neutral damage. Cursed body is amazing when it takes effect, and is often a game changer. I value it over water absorb because it is rare Jellicent sees water attacks as a threat. Shadow ball and ice beam have fair neutral coverage along with Scalds nice burn potential, which has great synergy with his special bulk and resistances. I gave him leftovers primarily to help him withstand sandstorms, as he's the only one on my team affected by them (I have T-tar further down) I've considered energy ball as an alternative to ice beam, but I feel that creates poor synergy with Ferrothorn. His EVs are all setup for boosting defensive capability and maximizing survivability. I love this setup and almost refuse to change.

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Heatran (R. Nixon) (F) @ Choice Scarf ??????? (thinking Air balloon?)
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse ???????? (suggestions welcome, thinking flamethrower for accuracy?)
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Good 'ol Heatran! This build is directly out of the smogon description. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! The fire immunity is a major help on this guy too. This little guy has some heavy hitting special sweeping options. Fire blast makes a powerful STAB, Earth Power is to help deal with other Heatran, Dragon pulse is mainly to deal with Dragonite and the increasingly common Hydreigon, and HP ice works to help take down birds, though I'm worried about its synergy with Dragon Pulse. I ran ancientpower for some time and it was about equally as useful. His EVs are setup purely for special sweeping, to outspeed and hit hard, with 4 EVs in HP to add a little extra life bar.




240px-445Garchomp.png


Garchomp (Kumar) Choice Band
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Hp
Jolly Nature (+Spe / -SAtk)
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Fang
-Aqua Tail Stealth Rock

CHOMP, CHOMP! This little guy is one hella sweeper! He's got the speed, he's got the strength, he's got the RRRRRRAAAAGE! Heh, joking aside; yes, he's predictable, but that hasn't made a bit of difference. He's a machine with outrage, unresisted, he's never failed to 2HKO an enemy (unless he gets picked off). Earthquake serves its usual purpose, while Fire Fang makes Steel types regret switching in and aqua tail handles business in the rain. Garchomp has served me very well, especially as a revenge killer. In fact, I often give him focus sash to revenge kill, take the hit, and either severely wound or KO the switch-in. It's marvelous.




tyranitar.jpg

Tyranitar (Windows'95) (F) choice scarf
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 168 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Crunch (thinking pursuit? Thunderbolt helps mitigate Politoed switch-ins)
- Thunderbolt

Dino-Myte! Dino here serves two main functions, a physical sweeper and a weather counter. STAB crunch serves to help deal with those pesky psychic types and thunderbolt is kind of a last ditch measure, though I almost feel the slot is wasted. Earthquake, of course, is near obligatory on T-tar nowadays and Stone edge makes for a scary STAB. He switches in surprisingly well on weather casters like Ninetails and Rain dance Defensive Starmie, especially with focus sash to guarantee retaliatory strikes. Sometimes I'll run a choice scarf for the speed boost or lightning gem to boost emergency Thunderbolt to see to rain teams. I find him difficult to maintain with choice items, but perhaps my strategy is lacking. His EV spread focuses on maximizing attack while adding some survivability and a minor speed boost.
 
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Scizor doesn't have a fighting weakness... Wtf...?
Things to fix
Spikes > Explosion Ferrothorn
Stealth Rock > Earthquake and Fire Blast > Thunderbolt Tyranitar
Toxic or Will-o-Wisp > Shadow Ball Jellicent
Stone Edge > Fire Fang Garchomp
Having HP ice and Dragon Pulse on Heatran is repetitive, replace Dragon Pulse with another coverage move.

Scizor is a girl so why use male pronouns lol
 
cellgoondude said:
Scizor doesn't have a fighting weakness... Wtf...?
Things to fix
Spikes > Explosion Ferrothorn
Stealth Rock > Earthquake and Fire Blast > Thunderbolt Tyranitar
Toxic or Will-o-Wisp > Shadow Ball Jellicent
Stone Edge > Fire Fang Garchomp
Having HP ice and Dragon Pulse on Heatran is repetitive, replace Dragon Pulse with another coverage move.

Scizor is a girl so why use male pronouns lol
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My fault, I was just thinking general steel typing. Though I could still use another fighting resistance. Also, I dunno why I kept saying "he", my bad.

Spikes on Ferro could be useful, it would allow more setup. Explosion is potent, and I do use it, occasionally. I might try the spikes setup, but without a phazer it limits usability. I'll think on it.

Not sure what you're suggesting with T-tar? He's very much offensive based, ill suited to Stealth rock. Are you suggesting a specially offensive Tyranitar with Fire blast and thunderbolt? That's new... and not the best use of his qualities...

Toxic and Will-o-wisp on Jellicent are redundant, and losing a STAB Lati counter (not to mention opposing jellies) is definitely not worth the loss, especially with Ferro running Toxic and the relatively high burn chance of scald

Stone edge on Garchomp might be situationally useful, but it neuters his ability to mitigate popular steel switch ins. I'll have to compile a threat list before I consider this.

I took a second look at heatran, I have ancientpower on him currently. An HP Psychic might've been interesting, but I don't have access to another Heatran... :/

Um... To be honest, some of these suggestions hurt more than help. A couple will need some research, but as the ones I outlined above, I don't think they are great ideas, really.

Edit: Oh, I see what you're getting at with t-tar. He would lose his STABs, which I'm not a fan of, but a Fire attack might mitigate steel threats and maybe scizor if I can predict well enough. Still, He's unsuited to stealth rock in this forme
 
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I get that alot.
I mean, I see SR and Spikes' uses and all, but aside from toxic spikes (hence why I originally had 4 steels on this team, which I admit, is ridiculous) They don't bother me too much. That and I'm not really a setup whore.

So I'm thinking a Lati to replace Scizor. Thing is, do I go offensive or defensive...? Both could be useful, and I've seen some mean Lati sweeps, but dat wall... Could run a dual screen set, too. Damn, that'd be sick nasty...

Thoughts?
 
Here's an update. I caught Latios (playing B2 so choice is pretty much made for me)

I settled on neutral nature and IV's something like

HP - 24
ATK - 11/12
Def - 16
SAtk - 31
SDef - 21/22
Spd - 29

What should I do with him?
 
Stop catching them and just use Pokegen like everyone else tbh.

Make Heatran Modest Specs, make Chomp a Scarf Terrakion, lose the Sash on Tyranitar. (And yes Specs Latios > Scizor)

Now what I really want to know is why you're using an amazing core, with the wrong sets. I have no idea why you want to use those weird EVs and (for Ferro) items. Ferrothorn and Jellicent should be:

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
 
I really dislike the use of AR for competitive pokes, and haven't used one since RBY. It loses a ton of the unpredictability that makes pvp so fun (particularly through IV's) and there is no reward for hard work anymore. I really hope that XY isn't so watered down like this gen has been.

My EV choices were to counter specific threats to my team at the time, and they've been quite solid. Ferro can survive two unSTAB'd flamethrowers from defensive Reniculus and a multitude of hp fires from opposing walls, giving him setup time. The loss of defensive EV's isn't as noticeable as one would think and the Iron barbs/ Rocky helmet combo usually ensure's severe punishment for being attacked physically.

I explained above why I prefer cursed body to water absorb. His special bulk deals with nigh any water threats, and with both lefties and recover already ensuring health stays where it needs to be, I don't see much point. Besides, water threats usually pack at least a neutral counter to jelly, and expecting Water absorb, will instead opt for another attack. When switching in to take a hit, Cursed body often nullifies the offensive threat completely for several turns, forcing a switch or allowing me to switch in and setup or give me more chances to score a burn with scald. My EV setup was chosen because Of my IV spread. Admittedly, this is somewhat of a handicap in certain scenarios, but his IV's gave him very respectable physical bulk, which I decided to capitalize on with my EV spread, and surprise physical sweepers. I really love this setup, and I'd say Jellicent is my favorite poke on the team.

I do think, however, you have the right idea with these movesets, especially with thunder wave on Ferro and moving Tox to jelly. It makes a lot of sense and the speed counter on Ferro would help immensely with setup for leech seed and it may also t-tar's sweeping capability.
 
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Why do you have a sash on T-Tar? The only reason I can see for that would be that you play riskier and want it to survive lets say a Superpower. Aside from that, it doesn't have much use but in most cases it would be better to play safe anyways and keep your weather starter around.

darthbob said:
Ferro can survive two unSTAB'd flamethrowers from defensive Reniculus and a multitude of hp fires from opposing walls, giving him setup time.
Click to expand...

Also, Reuniclus don't learn Flamethrower...
 
I switch items alot with him, tbh. My team is very choice heavy as it is, so I'd like to avoid choice if I can. His horrendous typing and lackluster speed often make him kill fodder if i'm not expecting a certain poke to be packing a retaliatory move, hence the focus sash sometimes. I really never did decide what to absolutely go with if not choice scarf, and I really would like to avoid that if possible. Maybe an expert belt or a berry of some kind?
 
darthbob said:
I really dislike the use of AR for competitive pokes, and haven't used one since RBY. It loses a ton of the unpredictability that makes pvp so fun (particularly through IV's) and there is no reward for hard work anymore. I really hope that XY isn't so watered down like this gen has been.

My EV choices were to counter specific threats to my team at the time, and they've been quite solid. Ferro can survive two unSTAB'd flamethrowers from defensive Reniculus and a multitude of hp fires from opposing walls, giving him setup time. The loss of defensive EV's isn't as noticeable as one would think and the Iron barbs/ Rocky helmet combo usually ensure's severe punishment for being attacked physically.

I explained above why I prefer cursed body to water absorb. His special bulk deals with nigh any water threats, and with both lefties and recover already ensuring health stays where it needs to be, I don't see much point. Besides, water threats usually pack at least a neutral counter to jelly, and expecting Water absorb, will instead opt for another attack. When switching in to take a hit, Cursed body often nullifies the offensive threat completely for several turns, forcing a switch or allowing me to switch in and setup or give me more chances to score a burn with scald. My EV setup was chosen because Of my IV spread. Admittedly, this is somewhat of a handicap in certain scenarios, but his IV's gave him very respectable physical bulk, which I decided to capitalize on with my EV spread, and surprise physical sweepers. I really love this setup, and I'd say Jellicent is my favorite poke on the team.

I do think, however, you have the right idea with these movesets, especially with thunder wave on Ferro and moving Tox to jelly. It makes a lot of sense and the speed counter on Ferro would help immensely with setup for leech seed and it may also t-tar's sweeping capability.
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You do not need an action replay for Pokegen, all you need is internet.
 
LoveSnoopy said:
You do not need an action replay for Pokegen, all you need is internet.
Click to expand...

Hacking is hacking, I don't like it at all. Zero work should not yield such a high reward
I do like the idea of "try before you buy" but that's what all the internet sims and data are for.
That's what makes teambuilding so fun, the unpredictability of it all and the reward of all your hard work. I've actually grown quite attached to all my pokes. Even Scizor
 
I recommend removing Pursuit from Scizor, and give it Bug Bite. Then give Tyranitar Pursuit in exchange of Thunderbolt. I would also give Garchomp Stone Edge instead of Fire Fang. For Heatran, replace Dragon Pulse for Stealth Rock or Flamethrower. Hidden Power Ice is already coverage for Dragon - Flying types, which Fire Blast and Earth Power don't do much to. You can give Spikes to Ferrothorn for extra damage on the switch.

As an option, you can give Leftovers to Ferrothorn for even more survivability (as a combo w/ Leech Seed).
 
I think Scizor should totally have Swords Dance so he's more powerful and a better sweeeper. I definitely think Ferro needs Lefties as well, along with Leech Seed that'll totes be a lot of recovery.
 
Hey guys, I nixed Scizor in exchange for an offensive Latios, I'll update the OP in a few. As for lefties on Ferro, I'd love to, but Random matchup doesn't allow duplicate items, and I find lefites to be more valuable on Jelly. I do, however, think Spikes is the right idea. I added spikes and Thunder Wave in place of Toxic and Explosion to him today and setup a sick nasty sweep while he walled Blissey

As for garchomp, I like fire fang for now over stone edge for one reason and one reason only.
Breloom.
He's my number 1 most hated poke atm.
Although I am considering adding stealth rock instead of Aqua tail. He often forces switch ins, and with good prediction that would allow for a free Stealth Rock. Just have to be careful of HP Ice users. I've done some tests with this and while I can't rely on it, it has swung a match or two in my favor. I've used it more than Aqua tail.

As for Tyranitar I'm thinking of Scarfing him. Pursuit might do well on him, I'll have to do some test running first.

As for Heatran, I'm thinking of De-Scarfing him and putting an Air Balloon on him to mitigate enemy Heatrans on the switch. If I give Garchomp Stealth Rock, I won't give them to Heatran, I may use flamethrower for the accuracy.
 
LoveSnoopy said:
No, it doesn't. It's completely free.
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Does he mean rng or just generating pokemanz? And where lul


As for the guide
Ttar Choose man CHOOSE
Still don't like shadow ball on jelli
Heatran, if it's scarfed (which it shouldn't be) flamethrower or magma storm
If air balloon taunt or toxic (then you can also get will-o-wisp instead on jelli, but I recommend taunt)
 
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