ORAS OU Tormentors (Balance Peaked 1500 today, must go higher help plz)

[Pon De Floor]

Hey smogon, second RMT here. I have been lurker on the forums since early XY. I have never really been a great competitive player. Having recently peaked at 1700 (credit to DragonairDance for his incredible rain team) I decided that I know enough about the current meta and have evolved enough as a player to make my own balance team that incorporates a very rarely used and old set I have fallen in love with. The team is doing well during testing but I know it has flaws and would rather see them corrected before I seriously ladder with it.​

Team Building Process

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A great addition to almost all balance teams and possessing one of my favorite sets in the game I started with him. He has many resistances and has been widely used for a long time as I am sure you all know.

My next choice was easy, one of the best balance cores in the game, really not a lot to say. They cover each others weakness almost flawlessly.

Landorus T was my next choice, super relevant in today meta for his ability to check a huge amount of physical threats as well as setting up rocks. The previous two Pokemon can take ice attacks directed at him (if venu is mega evolved of course) and he can take ground, flying or fighting attacks aimed at them.

Now I felt like I needed a win con and it also rounds out a FWG core. Keldeos presence in the meta is very strong and it has several dangerous set that can keep a opponent guessing. I will go into this more later.

Still needing hazard removal I chose latias. She akes physic attacks for keldeo and Venu, ground attacks at heatran, various other Fire water or grass attacks aimed at my main main core. Keldeo in return takes dark and ice attacks for latias.

Clefable, yes how original I know. She rounds out a FDS core, giving dragon immunity, a status absorber, Twave Spreader and another wincon on top of all that. Not much more I could really ask for.

Now for the fun part the sets

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Modest Nature
EVs: 244 HP / 40 SpD / 224 Spe
- Magma Storm
- Torment
- Substitute
- Protect

This is a very old set and I will break down how it works. The idea behind the set is that not a lot of Pokemon have two attacks that can break his sub. So you set up sub on the switch hit them with torment as they break sub. Now you set up another sub and on the next turn you protect against the attack that would break it and now you can freely Magma Storm safely behind your sub. BUT there is more, you magma storm or sub on the switch depending on the knowledge of your opponents team. If you know your faster or if this mon has two attacks to hurt you use magma storm. you then use protect then sub then protect till hes dead or in kill range of magma storm again. If you know he is faster and has two moves you just hit em with magma storm and protect a turn. This does even if resisted 30-40 percent of a enemies hp. Choiced Pokemon are very weak to this set as it forces them to struggle every other turn. This is not a theory mon. It is very strong and pushes out a lot of damage every game he plays against threats that should force it out. Even if the Pokemon has two attacks to kill you such as conk you can just magma as he breaks sub and protect for more than 40 percent of his health then switch to latias for the kill or force out. Do not get knocked off, then your just a Heatran with magma storm. I could use some advice on what to set his speed at. The EVs are from BW so its outdated.

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis


Standard Mega-Venu set, the perfect partner for Heatran. In the event that Heatran cannot finish off its opponent such as Azumarill I rely on Venusaur to come in and threaten with the KO. Often Venu comes in and fires off one attack and get switched on. so I often go with Giga Drain as the recovery is needed for longevity unless I see it will be heavily resisted. The speed evs ensure out speeding Azu in case she gets out of hand the rest into HP and SpA. I am not sure why she has 4 SpD Evs but i assume for a reason as it is in the standard set on smogon but it is unexplained. So if you know or have a better EV set please let me know.

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Good ol' reliable lando. I often lead with this extremely common mon because of his reliability in setting up rocks and then is able to U-Turn out granting me the momentum early in the game. His 8 SpD Evs are to survive Mega Manectric's hidden power ice and fire off a earthquake back at it. 8 Spe ensures he will out speed specs Magnezone. He is my primary check to talonflame, Charizard X, Mega Pinsir, Scizor, and really any physical attacker lacking Ice Punch. Very standard and for a reason. This set is very good.

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

This is where things get a bit interesting as most people expect choice specs or scarf. Having already seen heatran use substitute (in almost every game he is played first to weaken pokemon that resist Keldeos attacks) and from the general appearance of my team they do not expect me to sub and start setting up calm minds. I save this Pokemon for mid or late game, when I know i can safely bring him in and set up. Good ol' Keldeo is my primary win con though I feel like its also one of the most replaceable on my team however I am not sure how I should go about replacing or changing her role to specs for wallbreaking which I lack because I feel as if I would miss the win con. Advice on this please :)

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Healing Wish

Yup, Choice Scarf with defog I am aware, Latias plays the role of revenge killer and also offers healing wish. I often do not need to remove hazards as I am not SR weak, spikes only hits half of my team and setting up toxic spikes is a waste of time for my opponent as keldeo is the only one who will get affected by it and venusaur comes in often to sorb them. This is also a huge part of the deception of my team. Expecting Keldeo to pack the scarf because Latias is the only mon with access to hazard removal people rarely expect the scarf, this nets kills on Mega Lopunny, Mega Manectric, Weavile, Gengar, and snags the revenge on Tornadus which i have huge issues with. I went with modest as she out speeds all of the threats listed and this I feel like makes up for not having the life orb.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled


Last but not least the evil pink blob herself. One of the largest threats in the current OU meta and for a reason. This mon absorbs status, spreads status, and acts as a win con. She loves coming into resisted attacks and spreading out Twave in the early and mid game and of course being the number one check to Mega Sable eye in the game I lead with her if i see him. There isn't a whole lot to be said about this monster we all know how effective she is. Sometimes I want to go with the flamethrower set but with Venu and Heatran packing fire attacks Twave is more effective. The EV set is standard, and avoids sooooo many 2hkos I recommend you just look at the smogon analysis to get a full understanding if you do not know.


Now lets talk about threats and weaknesses

First the weakness, I have ZERO priority. I know that this will cause me a lot of grief as I climb the ladder and would love some help on how to put it in my team while maintaining its effectiveness

Now for the threats main threats I have found so far.

Tornadus

No one wants to come in on him, Heatran resist the hurricane but may eat a superpower and even if hes not packing that knock off is not something you do not want Heatran getting hit with. I normally have to use Lando to answer him but Tornadus can outlast him. He almost always comes in on Venu. I swap to Heatran to take the Hurricane and then protect to scout his move set. If its knock off I switch to Clef to try and get the twave or Lando for the kill.

Gengar

This mon is deadly to me, if he sets up sub I am looking at real problems. I have to basically sac a Pokemon and revenge with latias. Not a great plan I would like to address this.

Mega Gardevoir

Another massive issue though relatively uncommon when I see my cringe. If it packs hyper voice, focus blast, and psyshock It wont end well for me.

Mega Metagross

He can pack threats to sweep my entire team, not sure how to fix this. Ice punch, Hammer Arm, Zen Headbutt, I have to scout his moves to figure out what to attack with.

tanky Mews

Hes a extreme annoyance that takes me a very long time to kill. please god i need help

Those are the glaring threats to my team, I peaked at 1511 but dropped into the 1300s made it back to the 1400s and need a break. Please point out any major threats I have missed, Any advice will be great appreciated.



Replays showing heatrans merit

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-322688095

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-322694233


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-322720711



Importable

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Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 40 SpD / 224 Spe
- Magma Storm
- Torment
- Substitute
- Protect

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Healing Wish

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled

 

[Jojobobo]

Hi Pon De Floor, nice looking team - though you don't have a nature on your Heatran. For my first suggestion, I would recommend changing Magic Guard Clefable to Bulk Up Talonflame, who serves a very similar purpose, provides priority and compliments CM Keldeo nicely as then you have a pokemon each that can boost on either side of the spectrum. It also does a good job of handling AV Tornardus and Mega Gardevoir (who can't deal above 50% with Psyshock at the +1 Def, and who you outspeed even without investment and without rocks on your side you can switch in on Psyshock, set one Bulk Up then Roost off the damage) and, so long as they don't have rocks up, does a nice job at double switching into and 2HKOing Gengar (first switch to Heatran, then switch to Talonflame on the Focus Blast, even if it's behind a sub it's still going to take a lot from the flying priority).

Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Taunt

Acrobatics also allows this guy to absorb Knock Off, which you said you're wary of. Remember don't be too afraid of rocks with Talonflame, you'll come in at 51% and if it's something that Talonflame threatens you can heal to full health with Roost on the switch (however make sure to do this only if the switch isn't threatening also, or you have plans to bring in a counter to it, otherwise such a play is a little pointless). Apparently Healing Wish occurs before Stealth Rock damage, if you're Talonflame is at below 51% end game and you feel that having him at 51% is better than having him at the lower % and removing their rocks that option is always available to you. I would recommend Taunt over WoW in the last slot as it seems to me you have switch-ins to rock moves (Keldeo for ex) and Taunt allows Talonflame to go full stall and easily beat a tanky Mew, but that's up to you - try both out and see what is the better fit. Here are some calcs:

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232 SpA Gardevoir Psyshock vs. +1 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 111-132 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- 66.7% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Gardevoir: 136-162 (49 - 58.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 135-160 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 96 HP / 0- Def Tornadus-T: 133-157 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 185-218 (51.5 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 151-178 (58.3 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

For your Mega Metagross weakness, I'd recommend scouting for Ice Punch first, then just sticking with defensive Lando-T, who threatens him severely. I'm pretty sure Ice Punch isn't the most common set - more people like Meteor Mash/Zen Headbutt/EQ or Hammer Arm/Bullet Punch as the coverage is much better and it provides priority (you're screwed against pretty much any steel type with Meteor Mash/Zen Headbutt/Ice Punch/Bullet Punch). He may however be a stronger reason to run WoW on Talonflame, if you felt so inclined.

 

[Apollo.]

Hey, nice team but i do have some suggestion for it :

You are right, common special/mixed wallbreakers are threating for the team such as M-Gardevoir, M-Alakazam, M-Metagross and Tornadus-T are very annoying for many balanced teams, even more if you are using a M-Venusaur since most of them can check him effectively and make huge holes. This is why is why i would suggest to use Skarmory instead of Clefable, Skarmory check most of them and give you a aswell a solid ground resistence/sands (LO Excadrill) check alongside with Landorus-T which is pretty usefull, Skarmory is also a very good spike setter which are always good to have to weaken opposing team.


I'd recommend to use Scarf Tyranitar instead of Latias : Scarf Tyranitar is one of the best partner to M-Venusaur due to its ability to remove common checks/counters to it by trapkilling them (Lati@s and Gengar), its also used on many balanced teams since it gibe them a quick fix to the Gengar weakness and give you a way to remove common entry hazard remover on the team from the field by trapkilling them (Starmie and Lati@s) which could be very usefull since now with Skarmory, we have Spikes. Also, it checks Hoopa-U which can be very threating even with Hoopa-U, Choice Scarf allow to Tyranitar mainly to outspeed Gengar, Offensive Starmie (he can outspeed the defensive too but offensive variant can 2HKO/OHKO you on the switch), M-Pinsir and Kyurem-B (which is without Clefable a big threat). SubCM Keldeo also love the Pursuit support which is like a mandatory support for him. The thing with Latias is that Defog was counter productive and the Scarf set is very bad anyway, for Keldeo you already have M-Venusaur to handle him.

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Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower / Ice Beam

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Hope i helped !

 

[Pon De Floor]

Thank you for the rates, I have tried both suggestions and have some questions for you. First ill explain, using talonflame requires better hazard removal then choice latias, i cannot afford to sac her to bring in talonflame if talonflame isn't going to do some serious damage. As i used the set i found that people pack alot of answers for talonflame in there team because, well you have too. Secondly Choiced pursuit TTar would be a great addition to the team to support venu and keldeo and providing another answer to bird spam, however replacing latias and using skarmory to set up spikes and not having any hazard removal at all seems dangerous on a balance team that will be requiring so many switches. If they remove the spikes I set up and I cant follow up by removing their spikes. It puts me on the backfoot in a major way.

So my question for the talonflame suggestion is, How can I get better hazard removal while having another choice scarfed pokemon? My thoughts around this have been about removing Latias all together, perhaps scarfing Keldeo and maybe using scizor for pursuit, fairy check, defog, setup sweeper? idk tell me what you think

So for the Scarf Ttar and skarmory my question is simple how would you feel about running defog instead of spikes. Would this make skarmory a rather....lackluster mon? He would still check the pokemon you mentioned and provide almost too reliable hazard removal is my issue....seems redundant, like there may be a better mon if I was to do that. please let me know what you think.

 

[Pon De Floor]

Magic, your absolutely right, that is a better heatran set. I have been running into it and as much as I love torment heatran I will try this, the problem with removing that choice scarf from latias is i don't have any fast pokemon to revenge kill. Originally that was the set I was using, But some one would set speed up and its GG. And honestly guys you thinking this set is so bad is its biggest strength. No one ever expects Latias to be my revenge killer this is what she brings to the table in a long balance game against another team if heatran hasnt done its job. its normally Latias that nets a surprise kill to tilt the game in my favor, look at some of my replays i posted. In one a person throws a latios on my latias who just revenged a mon. They expect me switch but I know theyre defoging for charizard. So I draco against and almost kill it. Expecting the speed tie to now go in is his favor he fires a draco back but wait my latias is faster fires off a third draco and nets 2 kills. Then he switches to Char X and sets up a dragon dance while I go into clef. He has fire punch for what ever reason but if he had flare blitz he would of 1oko my clef but I again would of revenged with latias. Netting three kills in 5 turns at 19 percent health. She has done this alot and is not bad, however the teams changing so latias I dont think will even be on it or at least wont be my revenge killer. Thanks for he rate and I will def use that heatran set

 

[Pon De Floor]

Ya i was sure about the nature, I just didn't want to lose soo much dmg from dropping the life orb, Ill do some calcs because im pretty sure you right and the speed will be more beneficial thanks bud.

 

[Mistaken]

Hi,

Doesn't take a genius to see scarf latias is the weak point of the team. Scarf latias just really isnt that great in general, and is clearly holding the team back from reaching its full potential. So I actually think that tornadus-t would be cool. Your team kind of struggles to break some stall.

--->

Run Colbur latios
Latios will help your team out with Charizard-y, manaphy, keldeo, and mainly help out with giving you a solid way to remove hazards as your team looks like hazards could wear it down pretty fast. Latios is a really great mon in ou and should always be considered over latias if your team doesnt really 'need' healing wish support or is extremely weak to electric type attacks which your team is not. Colbur lets you beat charizard y + ttar core.

--->

CB scizor
Scizor will help you out with gardevoir, gengar, clefable, weavile and much more. Scizor gives you the priority that you wanted a way of revenging fairy types and more importantly a way of trapping defoggers and spinners with pursuit such as latios. Once scizor traps latios keldeo and venusaur have a much easier time beating opposing teams. Scizor also lets your team get some much needed momentum.

sets

Latios @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Defog

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower

gl with the team hope I could help :]

 

[Pon De Floor]

Hey mistaken thank you for the rate, You are correct latias is the sore thumb of my team. The scarf was added after I made the team to fix a issue I had with dragon dancers. My only issue with the colbur latios is that honestly the scarfed latias handles all of those threats already, both char y and x and latios could not handle x. With out my current choice scarf latias the very common char x sets up once and sweeps my team. I put latias in as the char x dragon dances and they think i did so predicting char y, then they die to draco meteor. Char Y just dies to draco meteor scarfed or not, keldeo isnt a threat to my team and nor is manaphy, I rely on people putting manaphy in on heatran and they always do and they always die unless its the rain/rest version but then i Just wait till hes around 60 percent and bring in Latias on a tail glow boost (not prediction because of torment so this is guaranteed) and finish with draco. Keldeo is handled by both Mega Venusaur and Latias. As well as being able to severely weaken her if they put her in against heatran. This team is built to lure water types in to die to heatran so keldeo has a easier time late game. Lastly my team is very strong against hazards, non of them are weak to SR half of them are immune to spikes, only 1 will get hit by toxic spikes and venu will sorb them anyway. This is why i chose latias as the scarf instead of keldeo because I almost never need to defog. All of this being said I need a solution that replaces latias gives me a revenge killer that can 0hko Char X and gives me some form of hazard removal, lastly I do like the scizor idea as it does solver a huge ammount of issues but it breaks the purpose of why i created the team so I will keep this is mind because it does sound great. But I really want to work around this Latias issue, again thank you for your suggestion. Please if you have any other ideas let me know, I know latias can be improved. I think replacing her with Scarf TTar and Clef with Scizor might help but then I still have to worry about Dragon Dancers. Let me know what you think about this bud.

I have to add lando T does check char X but is needed so much during the game he is normally too worn down when they bring Char X out.

 

[psVoltage]

Hey since you arent running a volt turn core you can optionally put toxic > u-turn on Landorus-T. This helps you wear down things that come in to check it like other landos, hippo, levitators, and also helps you beat things like slowbro which might get out of hand. I can't say much because the other raters pointed out alot of nice options but this may be of some use.

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

 

[Enki]

Hi Pon De Floor, pretty nice team; I don't have many changes to suggest to improve your team, and I don't want to change it so much, keeping the same 'mons and changing a couple of sets. First of all I don't like that much Torment Heatran, which is a pretty original idea and may works, but that gives you just one offensive move, getting walled by any fire resistor. Also this Heatran's set makes you pretty Talonflame weak, and doesn't help against many of your threat list. My first change is making Choice Scarf Heatran instead of Latias, giving you a pretty good moveset which helps against Mega Gardevoir, Tornadus-T and Talonflame, obviously not getting walled by other Heatrans. Offensive spread with Fire Blast - Flash Cannon - Earth Power and Stone Edge. Then you could change the item on Latias giving the Life Orb, or the Leftovers, getting locked in a -2 Dragon STAB move isn't that great beeing a set up fodder. With those changes you covered most of your threat list but Gengar, Mega Gardevoir still a little bit a threat, but less than before. If Gengar still that huge threat you could consider as an option to run Assault Vest Tornadus-T over Latias, how you said you are not that hazard weak, also Latias helps against Electrics, which is a weakness covered by Mega Venusaur, and Tornadus-T helps against Gengar and gives you ways to deal with Mega Gardevoir, that Latias doesn't.

Sets

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Stone Edge

Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower / Heat Wave
- U-turn
- Knock Off

I hope it helps, gl.

 

[Pon De Floor]

Hey enjoy, thank you for the rate. Running scarf hearten does seem like a logical solution to my current issues. I've been trying out everyone's suggestions and will update the rmt tonight. I will also probably change the name since torment heatran won't be a part of the team.

 

[Jojobobo]

So my question for the talonflame suggestion is, How can I get better hazard removal while having another choice scarfed pokemon? My thoughts around this have been about removing Latias all together, perhaps scarfing Keldeo and maybe using scizor for pursuit, fairy check, defog, setup sweeper? idk tell me what you think

Sounds good to me, I'd go Bullet Punch/Defog/Roost/U-turn with a LO - I guess LO gears you more towards offense so I'd go for a standard Adamant 252 Atk 252 Spe spread - though you could forgo speed if you want it as a slow pivot if you with U-turn to give you the switch advantage. I wouldn't bother with Pursuit, many Latios sets run HP Fire so I think it could catch you out more often than it's actually useful.

 

[toshimelonhead]

I posted this in another RMT and wanted to share it with you to help EV the Torment Heatran.

Old School Torment Heatran from the DPP era with some adjustments below.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 40 SDef / 244 Spe
Calm Nature
- Torment
- Substitute / Toxic / Earth Power
- Protect
- Lava Plume / Magma Storm

The EV spread here was designed for outspeeding Tyranitar (243 speed), but there's a ton of mons in the 244-246 range that 224 speed is acceptable. The rest goes into HP and Special Defense so Heatran can keep subs up as long as possible. Since Heatran burns so many pokemon, it makes sense to put the remaining EVs in Special Defense instead of Defense and going with a Calm nature over a Modest one.

TL;DR Modest -> Calm and you're good to go.

As per Magma Storm -> Lava Plume, Tormentran needs all the PP it can get to stall out some threats (not uncommon to be out there for 20-30 turns at once if your opponent struggles to break it) so I would consider Lava Plume.

For the rest of the team, one option for priority is Clefable -> CB Azumarill. There is an RMT in the archive that uses 4 of these 6 mons (5 if you count Landorus-T and Landorus as the same mon). The sets are different, but that team's objective is similar to this team's. The only drawback to this switch is it exposes your weakness to Torn-T a little bit, but Heatran has no problem with it if Heatran is under a Sub and can burn Torn-T with Lava Plume. I see Clefable trying to duplicate Heatran's role as a specially defensive tank and would try to see if Azumarill can provide some more support on the offensive end of things. The other option is to ditch Heatran for a priority user if you want to keep Clefable, but one of the two has to go for something with priority.

Hope this helps :)

 

[Curryman12]

hi bro do you mind re posting you updated team cuz i want to try the team for my self

 

[toshimelonhead]

hi bro do you mind re posting you updated team cuz i want to try the team for my self

It's in the shop still and I'm making edits as we speak :) - I'll give it to you once it's ready