Trapping in BW2

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Trapping​

Trapping has been an irritating strategy since ADV, where Dugtrio and Magneton teams were (and still are) popular. Although it was comparatively rare throughout DPP, trapping returned to full strength in BW1, particularly due to the introduction of shiny new dragons to abuse with DragMag, and the introduction of Drizzle Politoed and Drought Ninetales handing Dugtrio a niche in combating opposing weather inducers.

BW2 brought a few changes which has made trapping more powerful than ever. The release of Shadow Tag Gothitelle has given teambuilders the most customizable trapper to date, being able to trap or cripple almost any Pokemon in OU with the appropriate moveset. BW2 also brought with it Tornadus-T and Genesect, who are largely responsible for the increase in Dugtrio usage. With Garchomp recently unbanned, we are sure to see at least a small rise in Magnezone usage too.

The Trappers
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Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
IVs: 21 HP
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Memento / Stone Edge

Dugtrio is an excellent addition to most Rain and Sun offense teams. On Sun, Dugtrio acts as a reliable way of trapping and dispatching of Heatran and Tyranitar, as well as Terrakion or Politoed in a pinch. On Rain, it acts as an excellent way of removing opposing Tyranitar and Ninetales to keep eternal Drizzle, but can also be used alongside U-Turn Tornadus-T to bait in and KO Jirachi who is one of the few Tornadus-T counters. Earthquake is the standard STAB move that Dugtrio will be using 80% of the time. Reversal OHKOs all non-Chople Tyranitar once Dugtrio has been knocked down to sash, and along with 21 HP IVs (which mean Dugtrio will be knocked to 1 HP after 2 Seismic Tosses), causes some problems for Blissey. Stealth Rock is here generally because a lot of weather offense teams struggle to find room to put it anywhere else, although Dugtrio is generally unreliable at setting it up early in the game. Memento and Stone Edge both have their uses; Memento is to prevent Dugtrio from being set-up on after it has KOd something, whereas Stone Edge is often a better option for Sun teams who tend to be weaker to opposing Volcarona.

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Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Although the offensive BW2 metagame means defensive steels like Skarmory aren't as prevalent as in mid-BW1, Magnezone still has a niche thanks to the popularity of Genesect and Scizor. Although both these Pokemon pack U-Turn and commonly have a coverage option that will OHKO Magnezone, its presence alone is enough to discourage your opponent from attempting a revenge-kill with their steel insect of choice. With Choice Specs, Magnezone won't always be dead weight against teams without trappable steels. Specs Magnezone is incredibly hard for offensive teams to switch into, Rain in particular. Thunderbolt is the primary STAB option, although Hidden Power [Fire] will likely be the attack of choice against most trapped steels (Genesect, Scizor, Ferrothorn). Volt Switch provides a means of conserving momentum, and means you don't have to resort to using Thunderbolt against Skarmory and being potential set-up fodder on the next turn. Flash Cannon nails Ground-types like Gliscor, Landorus, Garchomp and Hippowdon who may try to switch-in on Thunderbolt, as well as providing good neutral coverage.

Magnezone can also run a set of Substitute / Charge Beam / Hidden Power [Fire] / Flash Cannon @ Leftovers to set-up on Ferrothorn and Choice-locked Scizor.

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Magneton @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire]

Magneton's base 70 Speed lends itself to a Choice Scarf set more naturally than Magnezone, who sits at base 60. Although the drop in power and bulk is significant, the jump in Speed allows Scarf Magneton to outspeed a plethora of threats that a Scarfed Magnezone could only dream of, most notably +1 Adamant Dragonite and Gyarados, Starmie and Tornadus-T. The only difference in moveset between Scarf Magneton and Specs Magnezone is the option of Hidden Power [Ice] here, which allows Magneton to hit Dragonite and other Dragons. Although losing Hidden Power [Fire] means Magneton can't do much to Ferrothorn, its generally ineffective at trapping and eliminating Ferrothorn in rain even with it.

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Gothitelle @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick

Gothitelle is a very diverse trapper, so this is by no means a definitive list of the options it can run. However, these are generally the most common sets. With a Choice Scarf and a Timid Nature, Gothitelle outspeeds Tornadus-T by 1 point (speed tie if using Hidden Power [Fire]!), allowing it to trap it and KO with Thunderbolt after Stealth Rock and a turn of Life Orb recoil. Choice Scarf also makes Gothitelle a good check to other top-tier threats such as Terrakion and Keldeo. Choice Specs is generally better against more defensive teams, as Scarf Gothitelle lacks the power to get KOs on anything remotely bulky unless its hitting on a 4x weakness. Shadow Tag also provides Choiced Gothitelle with an unblockable Trick, allowing it to cripple stall members, Chansey in particular. Signal Beam is a notable option for both the Scarf and Specs sets for teams that have issues with Celebi, and is an excellent option to support sweepers like Breloom, who have problems with Celebi.

Gothitelle can also run a variety of Calm Mind sets, but these are less effective than the Choice sets as it can't set up on much on such an offensively inclined metagame. Gothitelle is generally best used to remove specific Pokemon to facilitate a sweep for a teammate.

Other trappers: Wobbuffet, Pursuit users (e.g. Tyranitar, Scizor)

Trapping Cores
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"GeneSun" is based on the idea that Genesect shares the same counters as most sun sweepers. Heatran is the main target of this core, but it can also lure in and eliminate Tyranitar, Terrakion and some Politoed who are other major threats to most Sun teams. This core is often used alongside Xatu to prevent hazard set-up, and Venusaur as the primary win condition. This team is largely responsible for the sudden increase in Shed Shell Heatran usage.

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Dugtrio fits on Rain teams just as well as Sun teams, as its an excellent way of taking out Tyranitar and Ninetales. Just like the previous core, this core is based around U-Turn users and Focus Sash Dugtrio to eliminate the main checks to Tornadus-T and Rain teams in general. With Tyranitar, Ninetales and Specially Defensive Jirachi removed, Tornadus-T generally has very few problems tearing through teams.

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DragMag was a popular strategy in early-/mid-BW1 but seems to have taken a bit of a hit in BW2. The general idea is to trap the opponent's defensive Steel-types (i.e. Skarmory, Forretress, Ferrothorn) so that the opponent team can be run through by powerful Dragon-type attacks. However, with many teams' reliance on Scarf Genesect to revenge kill threats such as Dragonite, Latios and Garchomp, DragMag really has a chance to shine. With Magnezone waiting in the wings, Scarf Genesect users are put off using Ice Beam against Garchomp or Dragonite knowing that they will be helpless against the other Dragons if Genesect is trapped and KOd. Although Genesect's access to U-Turn turns every turn into a 50:50, DragMag should generally come out on top.

What are your thoughts on the trapping Pokemon? Do you like what they bring to the game?
 
I wanted to keep the OP neutral, so I'm gonna post my own opinions here.

Overall, I don't like the trapping Pokemon. I feel like they take a lot of skill away from the game and make it even more match-up based than it already is, although I've accepted they'll likely be around for a long time. Its at the point where probably 50% of the offensive teams I see on ladder are purely based around U-Turn with the respective trapping Pokemon; most commonly Rain with Tornadus-T / Genesect / Dugtrio and Sun with Genesect / Dugtrio / whatever, although Magnezone + Garchomp teams are sure to see a bit of usage now too.

U-Turn + trapper teams turn almost every turn into a 50:50; if I go to Jirachi on Tornadus-T as it U-Turns then I'll likely lose Jirachi to Dugtrio and have a very hard time against Tornadus-T. If I don't go to Jirachi then I'm running the risk of losing something to a Hurricane. Scenarios like this aren't even prediction-based, they are literally coinflips and I feel they are incredibly unhealthy for the game as a whole. The same scenario can be applied to Genesect + Dugtrio vs Heatran.

In my opinion, trapping Pokemon are what make half these "top threats" so threatening. Genesect would not be nearly as hard to deal with if it didn't have Dugtrio sitting in the wings to trap and KO all of its good switch-ins. Although Gothitelle is not popular, it is in a lot of ways the ultimate support Pokemon and the most threatening of the trappers, as it can be finely tailored to eliminate or cripple whatever the team needs it to.

In short, I think the various trapping Pokemon promote laziness in teambuilding, remove a lot of skill from the game by making it far more match-up based and are to an extent, the driving-force behind what makes the top tier threats so powerful.
 
I completely agree with you. Trappers arent a good thing for the meta, for example its ridiculous that i have to use Shed shell heatran just to fuck those stupid combo of u-turn+dugtrio. But the same happened few months ago, when if u used a Skarmory without shed shell, Landorus/scizor+magnezone were going to ruin your team. Then now, we have gothitelle, that with a choice specs it can easily trap the majority of the spinners for example, say tentacruel, forretress, even starmie without hydro pump, making stall teams less effective. the fact is that you cant run Shed shell on any wall weak to one of these trappers, otherwise you will lose the recovery that leftovers can give you.
 
Personally I think trapping Pokemon are really great, as most of you know my Sun team featured a Genesect + Dugtrio combination which at the time most battlers didn't understand how to play around, and I've always been a big fan of Gothitelle as well. The sheer versatility of it makes it my favorite trapper thus far, you're literally able to tailor the set to your team's exact needs so that it does exactly what you want it to do 100% of the time.

I think Magneton should be taking center stage over Magnezone, at least as far as the Choice Scarf set goes, sure it lacks a bit of extra power that Zone gets, but with a Scarf it can outspeed the mighty Tornadus-T, which Magnezone can never do. Definitely an important factor in a metagame where Speed is half the battle.

I don't believe PenguinX is wrong in saying that trapping Pokemon diminish skill-based play and make the outcome of a game more reliant on team matchup; however, they're a fact of the metagame, and I don't see any of them getting banned from OU anytime soon so we're going to have to live with them for at least a while longer. Besides there's an item that's literally built into the game to completely neutralize trappers, it's called Shed Shell, and Skarmory, Heatran, Tyranitar, and many other Pokemon besides should all be making good use of it in a metagame where trappers are so very prevalent.
 
I'd add in the list of trappers this Heatran:

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Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power / Hidden Power [Ice]
- SolarBeam

It can trap easily Politoed, Tyranitar and Ninetales with combination of Magma Storm + Solar Beam + Sunny Day (usefull to beat Politoed in 1v1), Earth Power hits another Heatran and HP Ice destroys the dragon types. I think it's one of best trapper in the current metagame.
 
I agree with the above ^

Shadow Tag Chandelure getting released would pretty much shake up the entire sun offense metagame as a switch into a Venusaur using HP Fire (as well as not having Earthquake) would pretty much give Sub Chandy a free sweep.
 
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this makes no sense, then dont use any steel because magnezone can trapkill them!
If u dont have Heatran in your team you are going to be raped by sun teams, thats all.
 
Magnezone is really bad IMO. It can only trap skarmory and ferrothorn. It's most common foe, scizor turned into genesect who can u-turn or flamethrower and dodge trapping
 
I would agree that trapper Pokemon take a large amount of skill out of this game, and bring a really negative influence to the metagame. Besides the reasons listed in the OP, I think trapping is much more popular this generation because of Shadow Tag Gothitelle, and the prospect of the unreleased Shadow Tag Chandelure. The reason I think trapper Pokemon are bad for the metagame is that they can easily tear apart cores and they are pretty hard to prepare for. Given, the item Shed Shell exists, but sometimes it is just a dumb/impossible idea to use it. On Heatran/Skarmory it is understandable, and is a risk that needs to be considered by the teambuilder. But when you factor in Gothitelle/Chandelure it gets a bit crazy.

An example would be, a team based around BP Swords Dance Lucario, while being paired with HP Ice Gothitelle. Gothitelle can serve the purpose of always coming in and trapping Gliscor, greatly aiding the Lucario sweep. My opponent had no way of preparing for my trapper and had no way to really avoid being trapped, barring not bringing in Gliscor and letting Lucario ravage his team.

The difference between Gothitelle and Magnezone/Dugtrio is that for Magnezone/Dugtrio the list of Pokemon that they can trap and KO are very limited. You can plan ahead and run a Shed Shell on your Heatran if you are worried about Dugtrio, but for something like Gothitelle this is nearly impossible. Its not like in that scenario my opponent would be able to plan ahead and run Shed Shell on their Gliscor, in an attempt to try to evade my trapper. Shadow Tag Chandelure will just make this even harder, as it has the ability to trap and KO more of the metagame than Gothitelle does. At the moment I feel like Gothitelle's mediocre stats/typing are holding it back, and that is the reason it is seeing less usage. But as Lavos said, you can essentially tailor these Pokemon to take out set targets and they will rarely fail you. Once Shadow Tag Chandelure is released, we will need to decide as a community if we are ok with the prevalence and efficiency of these trappers.
 
I concur with Penguin. While I personally like to use trapping to an extent (Dugtrio + Gothithelle is amazing), I do agree that the way they're used on the ladder is unhealthy. With so many broken cores and powerhouses, I almost feel like OU is Ubers.

However, if "If u dont have Heatran in your team you are going to be raped by sun teams", the opposing happens with Sun teams if you have Heatran, so it's pretty much mutual. Heatran is an annoying pokémon to play against, so most people just choose the easiest way to deal with it, Dugtrio, which has become himself an annoying pokémon. What I believe is that both sides need to get out of comfort zone and find new ways to deal with their weaknesses (Using Weather after the opponents weather inducer has fallen is beautiful)

I disagree with banning trappers, unless they are too powerful and meta-centralizing (like Chandelure will probably be), but I believe there should be restrictions to using trapping abilities. What should be those limitations, I can't say.
 
What are you talking about? Skarm and Ferro are both used and very good! Ferro was the 2nd most used pokemon in the last usage statistic set. Magnezone would never use sturdy anyway, and it can help either discourage CB Scizor from BPing, or trapkill it if it does. Magnezone is a useful pokemon if you need to take out steels if played correctly.
 
Ferrothorn isn't terrible, and actually under rain can shrug off some Hidden Power Fires and stall out Magnezone if you don't use Choice Specs or Substitute.

As for Skarmory, is not as used as it was in the past, but is still used.

The problem with Magnezone is that it is pretty much obsolete given that many Steel-types can work around him now. Heatran actually scares away Magnezone given its type advantage over Magnezone and the fact that it is the only Steel-type on OU that don't fear Fire-type attacks, and actually not only laughs at them, but love being hit by one. Jirachi has the bulk to shrug off Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Fire, Scizor can use Superpower (or U-Turn to escape), Genesect can do the same, except that it uses Flamethrower instead of Superpower. And Ferrothorn laughs at Hidden Power Fire under rain, if using a specially defensive set.
 
Sub magnezone traps effectively Sp def rachi, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Scizor (locked into bpunch/pursuit and even superpower), Genesect (locked into ice beam and tbolt!) while scarf variants can also revenge kill lucario. I dont see the point of sturdy magnezone, really. If magnezone has some love its just because of magnet pull.
 
I'm not really sold on the "Genesect / Scizor can just U-Turn out of Magnezone" argument. These pokemon are mostly Choiced, and so to really make use of Magnezone you need to have partners that punish your opponent's Genesect / Scizor if they don't Ice Beam / Bullet Punch. Scarf Genesect isn't going to consistently beat DDnite + Magnezone because U-Turning out of a +1 Dragonite expecting zone to come in is a massive risk. If you Ice Beam as they switch to Magnezone then you lose your Genesect and Dragonite likely sweeps you later in the game.

Its just another 50:50 call, I don't think you can really argue that Magnezone is ineffective at "beating" Scarf Genesect because its presence on a team alone is enough to stop your opponent from locking into Ice Beam in the first place. Although I haven't used it at all in BW2 so far, DragMag is probably a pretty effective strategy because if you have multiple Pokemon that your opponent is relying on Genesect to beat, they can't risk locking themselves into Ice Beam against your Dragonite at the risk of being swept by some other Dragon.
 
Trapping is powerful because prevents from the most powerful tool in the game, switching. Think about what would be Pokemon if the switch option has never existed.

I have always liked the concept of trappers, and BW came my dream reality in form of offensive Trappers which can trap everything.

However... Gothitelle isn't amazing as an offensive trapper who can trap everything, it isn't the trapper we could "witch" for. Slow and it has lack of power.

With a Scarf and Timid it outspeeds everything in OU but Jolteon(ties with Tornadus-T if the gothi has HP Fire/Fighting), but it's lack in power is noticeable, can't 2KO defensive Politoed most of the time even without Sp Def investment or fails to KO Tornadus-T after SR with TBolt and cannot learn Thunder(but Reuniclus can learn Thunder but not TBolt, is GF trolling us?)

At least Scarf Gothi has gained in BW2 a great tool, an unavoidable Trick!
Cripple for the rest of the match that wall that gives troubles, also Trick gives Scarf Gothi usefulness against Stall. Without it, I think she would be a lot worse and Scarfed has little to run in her 4th moveslot.

Its offensive movepool is nothing to write about, she depends too much on Hidden Power to defeat certain mons. Tyranitar or Heatran don't hate too much Scarf Trick.


About Chandelure... I hope the shadow candelabrum got released as late as possible, it seems Uber material because of its overcentralizing, anyways I don't want Shed Shell everywhere or all offensive teams, and also because this mon is one of my favourites and no longer would be useful without Shadow Tag.
 
another trapper is weavile

lo weavile with ice shard / pursuit / night slash / low kick is notable in that it can outspeed and ohko threats such as starmie (preventing it from spinning) while simultaneoulsy checking dragons!
 
I really like scarfed gothitelle as a trapper, it takes care of tentacruels really quick and saves your hazards from getting spun away :]
 
I think the only thing that there are two issues to consider with trapping pokemon and the metagame. First you have to accept that a big part of why trapping is good in BW is that the metagame revolves around weather. If that wasn't such an integral part of the meta, trapping wouldn't be as important. The second issue has to do with why trapping is 'balanced.' The pokemon that can trap just aren't very strong in and of themselves, they're either slow to weak or both (gothitelle smh). So they can't actually trap very many things an they may even be dead weight in a lot situations. Still they can definitely win you a match straight out if you take out an important counter or sweeper or weather inducer, so certain teams flourish with them, especially in tandem with genesect or Tornadus-t.
 
I agree with the sentiment that trapping is unhealthy for the metagame to a point, but I also feel like it's not the super simple strategy everyone makes it out to be. It does take a little bit of planning ahead, and it requires using one of the aforementioned trappers, most of which suck. Choice Item locked pursuit is asking to get set up on, and Dugtrio is weak and once he's trapped something he's pretty useless, if he even gets to trap something without being out played. Magnezone is also pretty bad since it's slow, even with a scarf, and being locked into a fire / electric move isn't so great either.

I'm not trying to diminish the effect trapping has, or in any way saying that it's not viable, but it comes with a sacrifice of a team member for a trapper and most of them are kinda underwhelming. I do think down the road that there are going to be limitations placed on trapping since it does help break certain threats, mainly dragon-type + Magnezone but also possibly Genesect + Dugtrio. I wouldn't be surprised to see more combo bans tested at some point, after all we can never run out of things to test!
 
Penguin X wrote up a new OP and wanted to preserve some of the posts here. It's pretty good, you should read it when he posts it.

One point from my previous post still stands, however: Next person who claims that Heatran is completely unviable because Dugtrio exists gets infracted.
 
I used a sun team with Wobbuffet in BW1 to some success. It trapped Scarfed Terrakions/Landorus' who usually gave Sun a lot of trouble, as well as things like Choice Politoed (sack Ninetales and send in Wobb). I faced a team with both Wobbuffet and Gothitelle recently and it probably the most annoying team I've played against since BW2 was released. The Goth set had Taunt and it was a problem for my slower paced team.

With regards to trappers, I do think they do the job for you too easily, and I'd prefer if they didn't exist, or at least had a harder time doing their job. However, we play with the cards we're dealt with, and I always make sure I'm not vulnerable to getting destroyed by a Magnezone and a Dragon (excluding UU.............) or a Genesect + Dugtrio combination. The latter is popular these days, and it's just a case of adapting to the metagame really.
 
I believe that trapping should also include moves such as whirlpool, magma storm, mean look, etc. These moves can be used in conjunction with perish song or toxic.
 
To the above, this isn't GSC. The only really viable trapping move I'm aware of is the Magma Storm Heatran used to win the weather war. I'd like to say that the set should be added to the OP.
 
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