Turnmons

[Akumeoy]

I feel like that Cosmic Power + Soft-Boiled + Charge Beam + Stored Power Clefable set would be good here. It can spend a few turns setting up Cosmic Powers and then zap the opponents with Charge Beam and Stored Power during the attacking turns.

Also, what is there to stop Smeargle from going Spore -> Geomancy -> Cotton Guard -> Baton Pass to Espeon, which Substitutes and starts sweeping with Stored Power (and Dazzling Gleam coverage)? Clefable can be a backup recipient if the opponent uses Curse, but it can't break through the bulkiest walls without taking lots of damage in return.

Baton Pass strategies aside, I do think that boosting offense will probably be the best playstyle (since these 'mons can function during any phase of the game), and that Substitute will be an important move on any 'mon that intends to be on the field during the status turns. As such, Curse will also be an important strategy -- the only thing that can kill in five turns without attacking, and through Substitutes.

As for the attacking turns, I dunno. Mega Venusaur for reliable recovery? Fake Out users to stall out those turns for more defensively oriented teams? Explosion and Volt/Turn to get your setup mon back on the field ASAP?

I feel like, potentially, some of the ridiculousness would be contained if you started out with the attacking turns. But whether that's a good thing, I can't say.

 

[Snaquaza]

I disagree with changing the mechanics of Nature Power so it is counted as a Special move. Yes, it will always be an attacking move, but it's still classified as a Status move. I don't think it makes this metagame worse necessarily.

Honestly, what's the problem with one move that can attack during the defending phase. It's not a great attack anyway and is fairly limited. It's not like we don't have semi-status moves in the attacking phase (Think Rapid Spin, Nuzzle). As I already said, to use it well you need to build a Pokemon around it as only a few can abuse it and it takes a while to set it up correctly if you want a strong Nature Power. This stops it from becoming too good, and even if in PacifistMons where it is the only attacking move, it's not OP. Yes things do use it but that's because it's the only attack they can use. The main typings that can abuse Nature Power (Normal and Grass, maybe Fairy) aren't that good. Fairy seems good but it requires setup and doesn't get a boost, and you should be able to handle a Moonblast, especially as you can use recovery moves and Disable these turns.

Also the users are quite mediocre in normal turns. They have to a moveslot or two to make this work in the defending turns. They are also usually not the strongest Pokemon, and easily killed by other Pokemon. Meanwhile, there are other moves too that can get past the rules: Assist, Sleep Talk (Can call status too so you can't just call it an offensive move), Metronome, you can go on for a while.

It also introduces a fun thing to the game. While you can't use strong moves during the defending phase, it's a good thing that you can't just make a team that sets up with Substitute or something and just think that nothing can happen anyway as they can't attack you. This prevents people from opening holes for being attacked during the setup phase, so it causes people to think more about their plays, which is good imo. Also it's only one move !_!

I get that it kinda denies the metagame's concept, but it's still its mechanic. It's not like Taunt, GothTrickScarf or AssTrick so it can prevent the opponent from doing what is expected from him, basically ruining the game or a Pokemon for him, so he'll be forced to Struggle. It's only for allowing you have one more option and the opponent has to be more alert.

 

[Enerdy]

I really like the concept of a more Tactical metagame where we have a separation between Attack and Defense, and yet it doesn't become boring and overly predictable because of the wide variety of strategies that can still be run regardless!

Eh, for the reference to Curse in the first page, switches are still possible, right? So all in all, it really shouldn't kill things more than it kills the user unless they use Mean Lock & clones to imprison them on the battlefield. If this strategy becomes popular, then it might be worth checking.

Is this still theory-only? If so, I wouldn't mind trying to code parts of it, not only to improve my knowledge of Showdown's inner workings, but also to see such an interesting Metagame come to life.

 

[DinaIsha]

No, it's not been coded yet. And I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate it if you do.

 

[Xmas121]

I feel like that Cosmic Power + Soft-Boiled + Charge Beam + Stored Power Clefable set would be good here. It can spend a few turns setting up Cosmic Powers and then zap the opponents with Charge Beam and Stored Power during the attacking turns.

CP+SB+CB+SP (lol just took 5 keys to type that) is a good set on Clefable especially w/ Magic Guard. It's a real pity it doesn't have Baton Pass :/ Viable moves also include: Aromatherapy (to cure all the status), Encore (to make people regret using status), Substitute (to add an extra barrier against status and to let it survive a few more attacks).

I feel like, potentially, some of the ridiculousness would be contained if you started out with the attacking turns. But whether that's a good thing, I can't say.

Where would the fun be in that? And there aren't nearly enough set-up attack metas.

I disagree with changing the mechanics of Nature Power so it is counted as a Special move. Yes, it will always be an attacking move, but it's still classified as a Status move. I don't think it makes this metagame worse necessarily.

Honestly, what's the problem with one move that can attack during the defending phase. It's not a great attack anyway and is fairly limited. It's not like we don't have semi-status moves in the attacking phase (Think Rapid Spin, Nuzzle). As I already said, to use it well you need to build a Pokemon around it as only a few can abuse it and it takes a while to set it up correctly if you want a strong Nature Power. This stops it from becoming too good, and even if in PacifistMons where it is the only attacking move, it's not OP. Yes things do use it but that's because it's the only attack they can use. The main typings that can abuse Nature Power (Normal and Grass, maybe Fairy) aren't that good. Fairy seems good but it requires setup and doesn't get a boost, and you should be able to handle a Moonblast, especially as you can use recovery moves and Disable these turns.

Also the users are quite mediocre in normal turns. They have to a moveslot or two to make this work in the defending turns. They are also usually not the strongest Pokemon, and easily killed by other Pokemon. Meanwhile, there are other moves too that can get past the rules: Assist, Sleep Talk (Can call status too so you can't just call it an offensive move), Metronome, you can go on for a while.

It also introduces a fun thing to the game. While you can't use strong moves during the defending phase, it's a good thing that you can't just make a team that sets up with Substitute or something and just think that nothing can happen anyway as they can't attack you. This prevents people from opening holes for being attacked during the setup phase, so it causes people to think more about their plays, which is good imo. Also it's only one move !_!

I get that it kinda denies the metagame's concept, but it's still its mechanic. It's not like Taunt, GothTrickScarf or AssTrick so it can prevent the opponent from doing what is expected from him, basically ruining the game or a Pokemon for him, so he'll be forced to Struggle. It's only for allowing you have one more option and the opponent has to be more alert.

I completely understand what you're saying about that it's a mediocre move and that there are very few users, which means that it shouldn't be removed because it will have few negative affects to the rest of the meta. But however small a difference it makes to the actual meta it still breaches the main rule (insert better word). Look at BH. It used to have the 252 EVs in everything rule, and people liked it, but it eas removed because it change what the meta was about: Being able to use anything you can (with hacks) have in a team. 252 EVs in all breached that, so out it went. Anyway maybe in the future I will have a vote on it, untill then It can stay as it is because multiple feel it should.

I really like the concept of a more Tactical metagame where we have a separation between Attack and Defense, and yet it doesn't become boring and overly predictable because of the wide variety of strategies that can still be run regardless!

Eh, for the reference to Curse in the first page, switches are still possible, right? So all in all, it really shouldn't kill things more than it kills the user unless they use Mean Lock & clones to imprison them on the battlefield. If this strategy becomes popular, then it might be worth checking.

Is this still theory-only? If so, I wouldn't mind trying to code parts of it, not only to improve my knowledge of Showdown's inner workings, but also to see such an interesting Metagame come to life.

About Curse it's only great because it's passed by Baton Pass, which makes a biiiig difference. It's another version of Perish Song practically. About the coding, that would be AWESOME if you could do that. From my (very) limited programming knowledge, it doesn't seem massively hard to do (not as hard as Flavourmons!)

I will actually post a team core later on after I recover from wayyyy too much gaming over the weekend.

 

[Anthiese]

I was afraid of Torment being a thing but i realised that there prolly wouldnt be many monoattacking mons in this meta.

But i do love the amount of Curse + Toxic Trev.

Also Perishtrapping on defensive turns seems to be efficacious to ruining things you wanna get rid of immediately. Too bad Ghosts arent on that list.

 

[Snaquaza]

This is now playable on the Aqua Server!
Tagging Xmas121

 

[Enerdy]

The source code is at the General Thread for OM Code.

I addressed Assist, as it wasn't pointed out and it's also a move that could call moves at the wrong times.

Haven't touched the Copycat/MirrorCoat/Mimic part, as I don't see how turning them into defensive moves would do anything '-'.

 

[26DUDE26]

This is now playable on the Aqua Server!
Tagging Xmas121

I cant find it on there, where is it on aqua?

 

[Snaquaza]

I cant find it on there, where is it on aqua?

Last format third column

 

[Xmas121]

The source code is at the General Thread for OM Code.

I addressed Assist, as it wasn't pointed out and it's also a move that could call moves at the wrong times.

Haven't touched the Copycat/MirrorCoat/Mimic part, as I don't see how turning them into defensive moves would do anything '-'.

Sweet! Thank you so much for doing this! I'll add it to the OP now. We can address MirrorCoat strats later, after more playability.