Typhlosion + Cherrim = potential?

Pagz

Pagz

Picture this double battle scenario:

My side, Togekiss and Cherrim

Turn 1: I start with Togekiss using Follow me, opponents attack Togekiss, most likley KOing it, Cherrim uses Sunny day.


Turn 2: I send out Choice Scarf Typhlosion, Cherrim uses Helping hand on Typhlosion, Typhlosion uses Eruption.

Would this work? Does it have the potential to win a few? Other fire pokemon and Blissy will cause it lots of problems, but I don't know calculations to find out how much damage Eruption would do to them, but if I know enough about how multipliers work, Eruptions power will be 759 (which by memory, is more then Explosion) and hits both opponents (not Cherrim), which should put a dint in anything thats not really prepared for it.

So, does this have some potential? Can anyone think of a more efficient way to pull this off? Is it worth sacrificing a pokemon to pull off? Discuss.
 
Doesn't mean you cant play the prediction game and give Typhlosion Earthquake and have Cherrim use protect. Even if Flash fire does go off, you can always switch out and bring him out later. You would modify the rest of your team to compensate for these situations.

Sacrificing Togekiss was so you could have Cherrim use Sunny day without fainting, and so Typhlosion is at 100% health.

Is it somewhat of a plan? or does it fail as an idea? If the opponent isn't prepared, would it cause a lot of trouble for the opponent? I know, it has a lot of flaws (one pokemon down, if the opponent has a Heatran or Kingdra, ect.), does anyone have any ideas of making it better?
 
Well there are alot of other follow me pokemon especialy from pokemon XD:gale of darkness...like dusknoir or something.Dusknoir can't be hit by normal and fighting so he may be able to survive.Then your cherim can solarbeam or something since follow me is protecting it.
 
A slow pokemon with Follow me and U-turn could work. The whole point is that I have Cherrim and Typhlosion HP100% out at the same time with Sunny day in effect, its getting to that thats the trick, and the only way I know how to do it is to sacrifice a pokemon. ace15, I think you may of missed the point.
 
ace15 said:
Well you would still be sacrificing a pokemon but have a chance to have cherim hit something.
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He could, but I dont have access to a Follow me Dusknoir (Although, it would be very handy). I guess Cherim could do some sort of damage, albeit not much, he doesn't have to be attacking anyway.


By the looks of it, the follow me pokemon will be a Furret, so I'm not looking at his longevity. With a starting pair of Furret and Cherrim, I doubt the opponent will be thinking much of me, so they'll attack undoubtedly (heres hoping the opponent doesnt have two attacks that hit both my guys :s). If they don't I'll U-turn in Typhlosion (have furret with a -spd. nature).

EDIT:Dusknoir cannot learn Follow me from Gale of Darkness...
 
hmm, maybe focus sash to the follow me user (most likely a fast one) and then explosion?, Cherimu just needs protect and sunny day which might hurt the moveset though..
 
One of the most common 2v2 strategies in ADV was a Rain Dance opener combo. The other most common was Explosion with Imprison Dusclops to block Protect. I see no reason why these two strategies would not remain popular, and both end this (Explosion will still hit your Cherrim, as Follow Me only takes targeted moves, not field effects or moves that hit both opponents).

One new strategy that could give you troubles is Trick Room teams, as it would pretty much guarantee your Typhlosion goes last.

Consider Smeargle over Furret. It can Follow Me and die just as easily as Furret, but you also have the option to use Spore, Perish Song, Explosion, Endeavor, Fake Out, or whatever else you want.
 
I had a simpler idea....wouldn't it be possible to run.

Typhlosion@Lum Berry
Timid
-Eruption
-Protect
-(Filler)
-(Filler)

AND

Nidoking@Choice Scarf
-Flatter
-Protect
-(Filler)
-(Filler)


The premise is quite simple really...

Scarf'd Nidoking goes first and uses Flatter on Typhlosion to double its special attack and Lum berry will cure it of confusion. Afterwhich Typhlosion should follow immediately on that turn with a maximum STAB Eruption at double power.

Result?

Nidoking and your opponents two pokemon dead, but you now have a 328 speed, 600 special attack, 225 power Eruption Typhlosion running around at full health.

Protect is there just because...

Alternately you can run a physical version of this combo with Swagger which is actually easier since you have a insane pool of very fast Swagger pokemon to choose from.

You could also use Mence w/Draco Meteor but he doesn't get the fun of being able to spam it repeatedly.
 
I dunno, sounds kinda risky...if the opponent sets up Trick Room or Stealth Rock on the first turn, your plan is basically shot to hell; do you have anything to stop that, or any type of set up the opponent might try? And keep in mind both Togekiss and Typhlosion have the same weakness: Rock-type attacks. That being said, if your Togekiss somehow survives, switching it out could result in Typhlosion getting owned.

Anyway, I guess this could work, if you can take the enemy by surprise. I've never tried it, though, so I don't know how effective it would be.
 
The point of Cherrim is that it boosts your offense under sunlight. Giving Eruption a bonus that no other helping hander could give.
 
[.darkie] said:
Wouldn't Pachirisu (lol) work better with 10 more base speed? (In regards to Forsety's idea)
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Technically it would. But in the case of Nidoking if you see something thats gonna screw you over straight away or Typhlosion happens to get Aqua Jet'd by some freak chance. Nidoking can come back later and still do some Scarf'd Rivalry EQ sweeps. On the other Pachirusu...kinda just dies.

Personally speaking the physical Swagger version is alot easier to use since you have likes of Alakazam who can do the Swagger and seeing its so fast it can run Focus Sash instead of Scarf to survive a EQ or whatnot.
 
I would make Togekiss as slow as possible (but faster than the common Trick Room Pokemon so it goes after them under those conditions, too) and give it BP to bring in Typhlosion if you aren't killed.

Cherrim should probably have Heat Rock.
 
Obi said:
One of the most common 2v2 strategies in ADV was a Rain Dance opener combo. The other most common was Explosion with Imprison Dusclops to block Protect. I see no reason why these two strategies would not remain popular, and both end this (Explosion will still hit your Cherrim, as Follow Me only takes targeted moves, not field effects or moves that hit both opponents).

One new strategy that could give you troubles is Trick Room teams, as it would pretty much guarantee your Typhlosion goes last.

Consider Smeargle over Furret. It can Follow Me and die just as easily as Furret, but you also have the option to use Spore, Perish Song, Explosion, Endeavor, Fake Out, or whatever else you want.
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Hmm, trick room would screw it over, so I'd have someone like Suicune or Slowbro to compensate.

I hadn't thought of Smergle, however he'd die just as easily as furret, making both just as good as eachother in this aspect. Thinking of Togekiss instead, giving it -spd. nature and baton pass.

Forsety said:
I had a simpler idea....wouldn't it be possible to run.

Typhlosion@Lum Berry
Timid
-Eruption
-Protect
-(Filler)
-(Filler)

AND

Nidoking@Choice Scarf
-Flatter
-Protect
-(Filler)
-(Filler)


The premise is quite simple really...

Scarf'd Nidoking goes first and uses Flatter on Typhlosion to double its special attack and Lum berry will cure it of confusion. Afterwhich Typhlosion should follow immediately on that turn with a maximum STAB Eruption at double power.

Result?

Nidoking and your opponents two pokemon dead, but you now have a 328 speed, 600 special attack, 225 power Eruption Typhlosion running around at full health.

Protect is there just because...

Alternately you can run a physical version of this combo with Swagger which is actually easier since you have a insane pool of very fast Swagger pokemon to choose from.

You could also use Mence w/Draco Meteor but he doesn't get the fun of being able to spam it repeatedly.
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It is simpler somewhat, however doesn't have the insane power that eruption will have, spammed explosions that dont affect your ally is just awesome (if not heavily circumstantial). And if you opponent has anyone with over 100 base speed (Aerodactayl pain) your going to have a lot of trouble.


StarmanXL said:
I dunno, sounds kinda risky...if the opponent sets up Trick Room or Stealth Rock on the first turn, your plan is basically shot to hell; do you have anything to stop that, or any type of set up the opponent might try? And keep in mind both Togekiss and Typhlosion have the same weakness: Rock-type attacks. That being said, if your Togekiss somehow survives, switching it out could result in Typhlosion getting owned.

Anyway, I guess this could work, if you can take the enemy by surprise. I've never tried it, though, so I don't know how effective it would be.
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Stealth rock would be incredibly ugly for this set, maybe run wish on togekiss, just in case? (he should be able to take a non super effective hit). I'd need a rapid spinner (Fortress probably) to clear things like that up.

gabriel said:
The point of Cherrim is that it boosts your offense under sunlight. Giving Eruption a bonus that no other helping hander could give.
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exactly!

Obi said:
I would make Togekiss as slow as possible (but faster than the common Trick Room Pokemon so it goes after them under those conditions, too) and give it BP to bring in Typhlosion if you aren't killed.

Cherrim should probably have Heat Rock.
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Yea, BP Togekiss is the way to go (was thinking this last night). I was thinking Focus Sash on Cherrim, because if the opponent runs Earthquake or any other double opponent hitting moves, Cherrim is going to feel a lot of pain. However those extra turns would be infinitely handy, it really depends.

EDIT: Heat Waving Choice Scarf Heatran is another possibility instead of Typhlosion, being that he doesnt have to be at 100% health to go off, however it has 90% accuracy.
 
Scarf'd Nidoking goes first and uses Flatter on Typhlosion to double its special attack and Lum berry will cure it of confusion. Afterwhich Typhlosion should follow immediately on that turn with a maximum STAB Eruption at double power.
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Flatter only increases Sp.Atk one stage, not two.
 
Against trick room teams, I could have a Choice specs Torkoal with Eruption/heat wave spare, which out speed (out slow?) most trick room teams. Thats an option isn't it? I could also have a Slowbro in my team that could pull off trick room for a late game effect.
 
Again, with 2v2 strategies, Sunny Day seems to be a common one. It's a good set, but it relies on Togekiss dying. I like Forsety's set.
 
I remember using an old favorite of mine (and possibly many others).

The Rhyperior + Gyarados combo. Yes... >_>

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Impish Nature
252 HP, 6 Atk, 252 Def
Lightningrod (Draws all electric attacks)

-Protect
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
-(Filler. Possibly a Fighting Move. Megahorn works great here too).

Standard BulkyGyara

-Taunt
-Dragon Dance
-Ice Fang
-Waterfall / Earthquake

If my calculations are correct, you should hit basically anything. All you do is set up with Taunt. This will screw up your opponnent in using all-out Attack, and even prevents the Exploding combo to whip up. Dragon Dance with a garuntee, since Electric attacks would be leeched to Rhyperior. Rhyperior would protect on incoming Water attacks, while Gyarados would attempt to beat them down to a pitiful hell.

It's basically deciding though: Waterfall VS Earthquake. I'd go with the former, because the latter makes both of them unable to do much to 'Zong (granted, Rhyperior has Megahorn, but it won't smack enough).

This probably works best with Sandstorm in play, to keep other attacks from eating Rhyperior.

I remember facing this combo in R/S/E Battle Tower, and it was pretty annoying. Of course, it's more adapted to D/P.
 
Saying "Rhyperior can work over Rhydon" is like saying "Blissey can work over Chansey, but this is a CM set, and most people use Blissey for Seismic Toss." Rhyperior is better in every way, really. If you use Earthquake, remember that it hits Rhyperior, too, so you may consider a high HP Marowak instead if you use Earthquake, as it takes Earthquakes a bit better.
 
Hm, good point. Made the changes.

Also, the reason I said Earthquake can work as far as Gyarados goes is because Rhyperior would have Protect to keep it from being damaged. However, most people should just use Waterfall since Rhyperior would be using Earthquake anyways. Earthquake was a mention to keep Waters from eating you up since Rhyperior will have to Protect, thus making Earthquake usable on Gyarados to keep Waters at bay and so that the whole Protection turn wasn't a waste.

Shoot, posted this in the wrong topic, somewhat. Anyways, Cherrim's ability raises Attack. Why not Focus Punch, or even Brick Break on Typhlosion?
 
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