Tyranitar [Revamp] [QC: 0/3]

Valmanway

Valmanway

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Overview
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+Has several sets with varying purposes
+Has a very wide movepool with good offensive and supportive options
+Has very good stats aside from Speed
+Is one of the best Pursuit users in OU
+Is a key teammate to the success of sand teams
-Is weak to seven types, including a 4x Fighting weakness
-Low Speed limits its sweeping potential
-No recovery limits its supportive set

Choice Scarf
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name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Stone Edge
move 2: Pursuit
move 3: Crunch
move 4: Superpower
ability: Sand Stream
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
nature: Jolly / Naive

Moves
========

-Stone Edge is Tyranitar's strongest STAB attack, so it's no surprise to see it here
-Pursuit allows Tyranitar to threaten those that attempt to switch out, such as Latios, Latias, Gengar, and Mega Alakazam, and is also good for wearing down offensive Pokemon that try to switch out
-Crunch is a strong and reliable STAB attack to use when you don't want to miss with Stone Edge or predict a switch for Pursuit
-Superpower threatens Ferrothorn, Heatran, Terrakion, Bisharp, and opposing Tyranitar very nicely

Set Details
========

-252 Attack and Speed EVs ensure that Tyranitar hits as hard and moves as fast as possible, while the remainder goes into Special Defense for a slight bulk increase

Usage Tips
========

-Choice Scarf Tyranitar is a situational revenge killer that has limited opportunities to actually revenge kill, and acts more like a check than anything
-Tyranitar does have the bulk to take a hit from most attacks, such as Mega Charizard X's Dragon Claw, so it can switch into an attack when necessary, though it's advised to avoid taking hits whenever possible unless absolutely necessary
-Choice Scarf Tyranitar is one of the best Pursuit users in the game, being one of the only viable Pursuit users that can outspeed and trap Latios, Latias, Starmie, and Gengar

Team Options
========

-Tyranitar provides good support to the likes of Landorus and Keldeo, both of which have a hard time getting past Latios and Latias
-Having a teammate to take care of Terrakion and Keldeo is greatly appreciated, so Slowbro works as a hard counter to the former and a check for the latter
-Celebi can take on Keldeo very reliably, threaten it with Giga Drain, heal off any damage with Wish, and rid the team of burns with Heal Bell, and can also check Terrakion that lack X-Scissor reliably
-When not running Fire Blast, Magnezone is a good Pokemon to handle Steel-types, such as Ferrothron and Mega Scizor, while Mamoswine makes for a good partner when lacking Ice Punch, since it can lay down Stealth Rocks reliably and threaten Gliscor, Landorus, and Garchomp
-Choice Scarf Tyranitar is great at supporting Keldeo thanks to its ability to take on Latios, Latias, and Celebi, allowing Keldeo to more easily perform its job

Support
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name: Support
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Pursuit / Crunch
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Ice Beam / Rock Slide / Thunder Wave
ability: Sand Stream
item: Smooth Rock
evs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 64 SpA / 160 SpD
nature: Relaxed

Moves
========

-Stealth Rock is mandatory on this set, as it's the best way for Tyranitar to support its team
-Pursuit can be used to threaten Latios and Latias, and it can potentially push a Pokemon's HP into the range where Stealth Rock will knock them out
-Crunch is the preferred STAB to use for consistent power, since it has perfect accuracy unlike Stone Edge or Rock Slide and can better punish Pokemon that choose not to switch out unlike Pursuit
-Fire Blast threatens Ferrothorn, Meg Scizor, and Bisharp, and prevents them from staying or switching in as easily
-Ice Beam can be used to, at the worst, 2HKO Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Gliscor
-Rock Slide can be used as a secondary STAB attack that threatens Mega Charizard X and Kyurem-B, and can OHKO Talonflame, Mega Charizard Y, and Mega Pinsir, and is used over Stone Edge because the extra power isn't necessary for this set
-Thunder Wave can be used to cripple sweepers, but losing out on any of its other moves makes it vulnerable to other Pokemon, such as Ferrothorn without Fire Blast, Landorus-T without Ice Beam, etc...

Set Details
========

-248 HP EVs are so Stealth Rock does less damage, 36 Defense EVs allow Tyranitar to live Choice Band Dragonite's Earthquake after Stealth Rock damage, 64 Special Attack EVs ensure that Ice Beam OHKOes Landorus-T and has a 75% chance to OHKO Defensive Gliscor, while the rest go into Special Defense to increase bulk; when not using Ice Beam, an EV spread of 248 HP / 136 Def / 128 SpD is advised to improve overall bulk
-Smooth Rock is the preferred item, as it extends the number of turns that sand will add residual damage to foes, keep Tyranitar's Special Defense up, and Sand Rush Excadrill can sweep for

Usage Tips
========

-Support Tyranitar is mainly used as a defensive pivot of sorts, acting like a safe switch
-Support Tyranitar is one of the better Stealth Rock setters in OU because of its ability to threaten many hazard removers, such as Latios, Skarmory, Mega Scizor, and Excadrill

Team Options
========

-Sand Rush Excadrill can take advantage of the sand that Tyranitar sets up and sweep offensive teams with it, and also threatens Bisharp, Jirachi, Heatran, and non-Focus Sash Terrakion very nicely with its STABs
-Choice Scarf Landorus-T can keep Heatran, Mega Pinsir, Terrakion, and Jirachi in check

Dragon Dance
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name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Crunch
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Dragon Dance
ability: Sand Stream
item: Tyranitite
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

-Stone Edge is the preferred STAB attack by virtue of power and more important coverage
-Ice Punch is mandatory for threatening Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Garchomp
-Crunch is a noteworthy option to hit Slowbro with, and is a useful STAB attack to rely on when you don't want to risk Stone Edge missing
-Superpower Allows Tyranitar to OHKO Bisharp, Diggersby, Life Orb Mamoswine, non-Focus Sash Terrakion, opposing Tyranitar, and Excadrill, and also 2HKOes Mega Gyarados and Heatran, while also hitting Keldeo for sizable damage
-Fire Punch can be used to threaten Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor, while Superpower still threatens the former, but also lands a crippling blow on Heatran

Set Details
========

-252 Attack and Speed EVs bring out the best in Tyranitar's sweeping potential, maximizingits power and Speed, while the remainder goes into Special Defense to increase its bulk minutely

Usage Tips
========

-Mega Tyranitar should be used as a late game cleaner when walls and bulky attackers are worn down
-Thanks to its incredible bulk, Mega Tyranitar can easily live a neutral hit and even some super-effective hits, and get the chance to set up a Dragon Dance

Team Options
========

-Clefable works as a good partner, since it resists the Fighting-type moves that threaten Tyranitar, and can possibly use Heal Bell and Wish to keep Tyranitar healthy throughout the fight
-Healing Wish Latias can fully restore Tyranitar in a pinch, and can also threaten physical walls for it
-Stealth Rock support is great for wearing down bulky Pokemon, with Landorus-T being a particularly good teammate, as Intimidate and U-turn can provide Mega Tyranitar with safe switch-ins and give it an easier time setting up
-Klefki works as a great teammate, as it can set up Reflect and Light Screen to provide Mega Tyranitar with more setup opportunities, and the Spikes damage can add up very quickly, especially when compared to Pokemon that resist Stealth Rock, such as Ferrothorn and Hippowdon
-Keldeo is able to threaten a wide variety of threats that would give Mega Tyranitar a hard time, such as Gliscor, Skarmory, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, and Calm Mind Manaphy
-Talonflame is able to threaten most Fighting-types, such as Mega Lopunny, Mega Gallade, Chesnaught, and Conkeldurr, thanks to its priority Brave Bird

Other Options
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-For the supporter set, Assault Vest can be used to sponge special attacks more easily, but it loses out on both Smooth Rock extending sand and the ability to use Stealth Rock
-A Choice Band can be used to give Tyranitar much more immediate power, which allows it to threaten many defensive Pokemon, such as Mega Sableye, Mega Slowbro, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Quagsire, as well as 2HKO Gliscor after Stealth Rock damage, though the lack of Speed and multiple weaknesses will make it hard to use against offensive teams

Checks & Counters
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**Keldeo**: Keldeo is one of the best checks to Tyranitar, as it resists both of its STABs, Fire Blast, and Ice Beam/Punch, can always OHKO offensive variants with Secret Sword, and can take advantage of a predicted switch by setting up Calm Mind or Substitute

**Fairy-types**: Unaware Clefable, Choice Band Azumarill, Choice Specs Sylveon, and Mega Altaria are all capable of stomaching any attack, and while the former fails to 2HKO without a boost, the latter three are capable of OHKOing any offensive variants and at worst 2HKOing the Support set

**Fighting-types**: Since Fighting-types not only resist both of Tyranitar's STABs, but also hit Tyranitar 4x super effectively, just about any Fighting-type you find will work as a good check if not a counter, such as Conkeldurr, Mega Heracross, Terrakion, Hawlucha, etc...; Mega Lopunny in particular can outrun even a +1 Meg Tyranitar and easily OHKO with High Jump Kick

**Water-types**: Bulky Water-types such as Calm Mind Manaphy, Mega Swampert, Quagsire, and Suicune are all capable of stomaching a hit from even Mega Tyranitar, and can either set up on, KO, or burn and stall it out

**Mega Scizor**: When facing Dragon Dance sets, Bulky Mega Scizor can easily wear Mega Tyrantar down with Bullet Punch and heal off the damage with Roost, while offensive sets can live a hit and OHKO with Superpower

**Status**: Paralysis and burns will cripple the offensive sets, and Toxic will quickly wear down the Dragon Dance and Support sets

**Sand Rush Excadrill**: Since the sand will be up, Sand Rush Ecadrill will be able to outrun even a +2 Mega Tyranitar, and can OHKO Choice Scarf sets, OHKO Mega Tyranitar with just a little prior damage, and can 2HKO the Support set
 
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I think that the Support set should go before Dragon Dance, and Smooth Rock gets the slash before Leftovers. Support Ttar forms the core of sand offense, which is really common and really solid.
 
Alfalfa said:
I think that the Support set should go before Dragon Dance, and Smooth Rock gets the slash before Leftovers. Support Ttar forms the core of sand offense, which is really common and really solid.
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Seconding this suggestion, the metagame has shifted away from allowing mega tyranitar to set up dragon dances. Scarf or smooth rock are much more effective.
Also, max hp max def probably isn't the most efficient EV spread - I've seen a ton of differnt ones used on various rmts.
 
boltsandbombers said:
Seconding this suggestion, the metagame has shifted away from allowing mega tyranitar to set up dragon dances. Scarf or smooth rock are much more effective.
Also, max hp max def probably isn't the most efficient EV spread - I've seen a ton of differnt ones used on various rmts.
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Yeah, I'm honestly none too familiar with support Tyranitar, since I usually use Scarf. What EV spread would you suggest?
 
a cb set should be implemented as tyranitars excellent stab compination in conjunction with raw bulk and great coverage. it hits insanely hard and is a nice wallbreaker for a lot off teams.

the set should be like 252 atk / 4 def / 252 spd adamant nature with crunch / pursuit / stone edge / earthquake. just maxed out speed here to outrun standard 44 spd rotom-w.
 
ice PUNCH not ice beam please, first of all you actually need to sponge some hits so dropping either defensive stat really isn't beneficial, second of all there are some power issues.

252 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 174-206 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 124-148 (38.3 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage

252 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 352-416 (98.5 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 284-336 (79.5 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

i mean obv landt is hit harder by ice beam but ice punch is still a 2hko on the bulkiest of landt so it's not a big deal. the two things - power vs certain things and loss of bulk - are enough to make ice punch better.
 
Few suggestions for the Support set.
  • Fire Blast/Flamethrower in the 3rd slot to stop Ferrothorn and Scizor from taking advantage of you. Fire Blast can OHKO bulky Mega Scizor after Rocks 50% while both Flamethrower and Fire Blast 2HKO the Ferrothorn set listed on the calculator (252/88/168 defenses with Impish).
  • Ice Beam in the last slot for Gliscor and Lando-T. Ice Beam is preferred since Ice Punch does the exact same damage to SpD Gliscor and can OHKO max HP Lando-T after Rocks 37.5% of the time.
  • Thunder Punch can 2HKO AV Azumarill and you outspeed even with a Relaxed nature, so I think it could be listed under Other Options. Do note Play Rough does 71% max from AV, Choice Band will murder you, and Belly Drum will outspeed unless you run Impish with 80 Speed EVs
 
To expound on the Support set, I've been using a moveset of SR / Pursuit / Rock Slide / Ice Beam to great effect. Crunch I don't feel is hugely necessary, and can easily be replaced by Pursuit to better kill off the big two Defoggers, the Lati@s. It also is excellent utility for fleeing things if you switch it in well, and to build up more and more residual damage on targets. It's for sure slash-worthy over Crunch. I also prefer Rock Slide so you can check BirdSpam more reliably than with Fail Edge; Rock Slide still does enough damage to OHKO Pinsir, Staraptor, Volcarona (lol), Mega Char Y, and non-Roosting non-boosted Bulk Up Talons without having to pray it hits, and you can last longer in PP wars.
 
for scarftar, shouldn't ice punch be slashed with crunch and superpower slashed before fire blast? crunch isn't as necessary when you have pursuit to trap psychics/ghosts and the ice coverage hits alot of things on offense. superpower is also nifty to hit terrak,ttar,bisharp and ferro and i'm sure alot of ppl can attest to using spower>fireblast on scarftar more often then not. another thing that's up for debate is brazilian ttar(twave) :0. i am in no way supporting the validity of this set but i've seen it work several times and at the very least it should be mentioned as an option on its support set imo.
 
ben gay said:
for scarftar, shouldn't ice punch be slashed with crunch and superpower slashed before fire blast? crunch isn't as necessary when you have pursuit to trap psychics/ghosts and the ice coverage hits alot of things on offense. superpower is also nifty to hit terrak,ttar,bisharp and ferro and i'm sure alot of ppl can attest to using spower>fireblast on scarftar more often then not. another thing that's up for debate is brazilian ttar(twave) :0. i am in no way supporting the validity of this set but i've seen it work several times and at the very least it should be mentioned as an option on its support set imo.
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Added.

So before moving this to QC, does anybody have any other suggestions?
 
I'm just wondering, what is the reason in using Fire Blast? Ice Punch + Superpower already hits everything Fire Blast does, except for Bug-types, that are hit by stone edge.
 
ice punch, stone edge, and superpower do pathetic damage to skarm and megazor which get 2hkoed by fire blast, means ttar won't take iron barbs damage hitting ferro or rocky helmet hitting skarm, and it's also ttar's best way of taking out the rare klefki
 
Valmanway said:
Overview
-Having a teammate to take care of Terrakion and Keldeo is greatly appreciated, so Slowbro works as a hard counter to both of them
Click to expand...

Slowbro is not a hard counter to Keldeo. Keldeo will usually attempt to play around Slowbro by fishing for a Scald burn. Once it is burned, Keldeo can 2HKO it with a Specs-boosted Hydro Pump (and Specs is Keldeo's most common set). Slowbro checks Keldeo, but to call it a hard counter is an overstatement.

Also, 666th post, GLORY TO SATAN HAIL THE ANTI-CHRIST
 
Alfalfa said:
Slowbro is not a hard counter to Keldeo. Keldeo will usually attempt to play around Slowbro by fishing for a Scald burn. Once it is burned, Keldeo can 2HKO it with a Specs-boosted Hydro Pump (and Specs is Keldeo's most common set). Slowbro checks Keldeo, but to call it a hard counter is an overstatement.

Also, 666th post, GLORY TO SATAN HAIL THE ANTI-CHRIST
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to add on to this, celebi can take on both these pokemon(only worries about x-scissor from choice terraks, easily beats keldeo unless you get counterteamed and hp bugged), and has some nice defensive synergy overall. celebi can also bring in ttar safely with baton pass. celebi can even pass a sub to ttar, though i don't think that benefits scarftar too much.

i think pursuit trapping latis pretty reliably as well as gengar should be mentioned in usage tips for scarftar.
 
Hey Valmanway is this ready for QC? Looks like it, just checking.

Anyways, some things on the movesets, which I definitely think could be improved.

DD Mega Tar Set

- I think Crunch is pretty important/useful for Mega Tar. Having that 100% accurate STAB is one thing, but also being walled by Slowbro is pretty bad in the current state of the metagame where Slowbro is so common.
- I also like running Superpower because of the OHKO on Bisharp, the heightened damage on Keldeo, preventing Tran from statusing you unlike Stone Edge, the OHKO on other Tyranitar, beating Balloon Excadrill 1v1, hitting Terrakion, the super effective hit on Mega Gyarados, tearing through Mamoswine, and popping Diggersby. So, yeah, despite the drops which are kinda counterproductive you could say, I really think Superpower is a strong option. Fire Punch is an option over it, I think you need at least one you can hit the Steels espec Ferro, Fire Punch hits Mega Scizor and doesn't have the drops.
- For the third attacking slot, I'll run either Stone Edge which gets the strong hit on Clefable and Azumarill, something that's pretty important, or Ice Punch if I'm particularly Landorus-T/Gliscor weak.
- Pretty much suggesting a moveset of DD / Stone Edge or Ice Punch / Crunch / Superpower or Fire Punch, I think this is the better in the metagame atm.

Support Tar Set

- um yeah, nobody uses Leftovers support Tar. The point of support Tar is with Smooth Rock for extended sand with Exca and other team support qualities like SR. That should be the only item option.
- The EV spread, I know people have had gripes about this being the spread on-site and in short max HP max Defense is pretty horrible. It doesn't even beat Mega Pinsir due to Close Combat, while not having the special bulk it really wants to tank hits from mons like the Latis. I know a lot of different things people run, so I would like more input on this, but a spread to think about is 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 SpD Sassy (enough Defense to take a +1 EQ from Dragonite after SR). I've also run fast spreads to outspeed and screw up Landorus-T with Ice Beam, though I don't think this is preferable. I've also seen people run spreads with a bit of Attack + Adamant, max HP, and spread out Defense/Special Defense EVs. I think a bulky spread focused on taking hits, which is what you want support TTar to do, is superior, and the spread I gave has a nice chunk of Defense to take a useful and in general for handling mons like CB Talon (though this is becoming more uncommon), as well as tanking Draco Meteors from the Latis.
- As far as the moveset, I would definitely support TWave considering like ben gay I've seen it work a bunch of times and overall it can be p damn effective especially luring mons like Keldeo that like to come in on TTar. As a slash in the last slot I guess.
 
Can we push Mega Dragon Dance to the last set? There are honestly so many better Pokemon you could be using your Mega Slot with, and the speed creep in ORAS really kills Mega Ttar, as stuff like Mega Lopunny and Sceptile can outspeed it even at +1. While Sand Offense has died down in usage, it is still a potent playstyle, and it really deserves to be a set above the Mega Dragon Dance set.
 
Overview

Mention Tyranitar's ability to provide sand support and Pursuit trap.

Choice Scarf

Slash Crunch in its own slot because the ability to damage Mega Metagross is very important. Not especially a fan of Fire Blast because it's a really mediocre lock-in, you really don't want to run a Naive nature or Hasty nature for that matter, it doesn't OHKO Bisharp, and gives you no option to deal any sort of meaningful damage to Keldeo/Terrakion; deslash that as well.

Mention that Pursuit isn't only for trapping Psychic-types but also for wearing down Pokemon like Talonflame, Manectric, bulky Zard X, etc that your team needs weakened for whatever reason. Also mention that you can trap Starmie.

I think you're misinterpreting the purpose of Scarftar in Usage Tips. It's kind of a meh revenge killer if we're talking about sweepers and even faster Pokemon, as it only outspeeds up to Starmie. Scarftar has a few purposes and those are Pursuit trapping Latis/Gar, checking bird spam by rking Pinsir and walling Talonflame, somewhat checking Bisharp thanks to Superpower, checking/revenging Zard Y and Thundurus as well as some miscellaneous weakened Pokemon that it is able to outspeed (Mega Gardevoir, Mega Metagross, Mega Gallade, Landorus-I), checking the likes of Raikou/Manectric (though not infinitely), and providing potential sand support for Excadrill though obviously not as effectively as the support set. You absolutely need to make its role more clear and connect this to how you play it. Some of these things need to mentioned in Team Options for like 'what teams appreciate Scarf Tyranitar's support' but you also need to tie this into Usage Tips. Scarftar is not played like a typical Scarfer and you should make it very clear that you need other checks to DDers and w/e faster Pokemon that something like a Scarf Landorus-T would actually check.

It's worth mentioning somewhere that it easily tanks a +1 DClaw from standard Jolly DD Zard X, which is pretty significant

Keld/Lando as partners that appreciate Pursuit support should be mentioned in Team Options.

Support

You're missing the nature on the set. That aside, I actually have a different spread which is 248 HP / 36 Def / 64 SpA / 160 SpD Relaxed. This achieves the same Defense benchmark as the current spread (surviving +1 EQ from Dragonite after SR, tanking two CB Talon U-turns with one SR switch-in) while netting Ice Beam the OHKO on Scarf Landorus-T, a 75% chance to OHKO phys def Gliscor, and a 68.8% chance to OHKO Scarf Landorus-T after SR damage, the former being an especially important benchmark.

Again in Usage Tips doesn't really seem like you know how to use Support Tar...it is more of a defensive pivot than anything else or perhaps a sac to extend sand turns. Expand and redo this section.

Mention that Tyranitar is a particularly good SR setter because it walls Latis and threatens Skarm/Exca.

Dragon Dance

The best moveset for this set imo is: DD / Crunch / Stone Edge / Superpower. All of these moves feel necessary to me and you sacrifice your coverage against important foes if you forgo any of them. Crunch is crucial to hit Mega Metagross, Mega Slowbro, Jirachi, and Mew in addition to providing a reliable STAB option that has good neutral coverage. You need Stone Edge for the KO on Azumarill at +1 and to hit Clefable while having a more powerful STAB that hits Zard X, Mega Scizor, Mega Diancie, Mega Sableye, and Mega Altaria very hard or OHKOes; it is probably the most replaceable move, but still fairly important especially for the Fairies. The coverage from Superpower is needed to hit Ferrothorn, Bisharp, Keldeo (+1 does 78.9 - 92.8%), Heatran (you need the OHKO to prevent a Toxic), and Chansey (you need the OHKO to stop them from messing around with TWave/Toxic), which makes it every bit worth the drops. Ice Punch and Fire Punch slashes can be included but this should be the main moveset.

Expand on Usage Tips and Team Options. How do you set it up? How should you, well, play it? What partners well with it? One partner that's pretty cool is normal DD Gyara as this is a case of luring/weakening each others' counters. Also, say your opponent revenge kills Tyranitar with Keldeo, well now Gyarados gets a free setup opportunity.

Other Options

Mention a lead Focus Sash set with SR / Fire Blast / Ice Beam / STAB with max Speed Naive as an ok lead set that provides sand support and does really well against Defoggers.

Checks and Counters

Common waters/grounds/fairies/steels are missing and need to be included.

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I also think it may be worth including a Choice Band set, which performs really well against common balanced and stall builds. It's one of the few wallbreakers that manages to threaten both Mega Sableye and Mega Slowbro while in general being really difficult to wall. It 2HKOes Skarmory with Stone Edge, Quagsire with Crunch, and manages to put a lot of pressure on Gliscor with its attacks, even beating it if it scores a Defense drop with Crunch (the only reason it doesn't win normally is because Gliscor runs a lot of Speed typically, Crunch/Stone Edge do a lot of damage). It's not even bad against offense because it can trap Latis and nothing wants to tank a Choice Band-boosted hit from Tyranitar on offense.
 
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