ORAS Ubers Ubers: GiraBliss

YveltalNL

YveltalNL

Hello everyone,
I'm AwesomeTorterra and today I will be posting a team of mine.
I have noticed that I am extremely Megamence weak, so if anyone has an idea to counter that, it would be appreciated.

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Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
First up is my Lucario.
I use it to counter walls such as Blissey, the uncommon Heatran, or Arceus-Dark or Normal (before SD)
I decided to use Swords Dance as Close COmbat is its hardest hitting move, and boosting it makes Lucario extremely powerful.
Bullet Punch and Earthquake are my preferences, I decided to use BP over Iron Tail 'cause of the priority and Iron Tail's low accuracy.
Earthquake could, of course, be replaced by Stone Edge or Ice Punch.


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Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 180 Atk / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Rash Nature
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
Next up is Giratina.
He is my Defogger and (sort of) a wallbreaker.
Defog is there for obvious reasons, mainly for Ho-Oh.
Draco Meteor is Giratina's most powerful attack, hitting everything that doesn't resist it, not named Blissey, like a truck.
Shadow Ball is my filler move of choice. I decided I wanted to be able to defeat Mewtwo X easier.
Shadow Sneak is there for priority and revenge killing.
My Speed EVs are to outspeed Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Yveltal when uninvested.


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Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave

Ferrothorn is my Fire Blast-less Salamence 'check' and a foolproof Extremekiller counter.
Stealth Rock is there for obvious reasons.
Thunder Wave is my status move of choice, as in my opinion it works way better than Toxic in Ubers.
Leech Seed is my main form of recovery.
Gyro Ball is my offensive move, dealing heavy damage to fast pokes in Ubers and Salamence at +2.
It also destroys Xerneas.

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Blissey @ Shed Shell
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy

Blissey is my main Special wall. I use it to counter threats such as Kyogre, Calm Mind not Poison- Arceus, and Genesect locked into a special move.
Toxic is there as a way to stall out threats.
Flamethrower is my offensive move of choice, as I like to be able to do something to Genesect and Ferrothorn while being able to hit Ghosts.
Soft-Boiled is there for recovery.
Aromatherapy gets rid of nasty burns and paralyzes on Lucario, mainly.
Obviously it also gets rid of all other statuses inflicted.
My EV spread is the way it is because I like to maximise my bulk, and the 4 speed EVs are to outrun other Blissey.


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Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Psyshock

GeoXern is my main special sweeper.
Moonblast and Geomancy are obligatory.
Thunder nails Kyogre and Ho-Oh after a bit of previous damage.
Psyshock is my way around Poison Arceus, other GeoXerns and most importantly, Blissey.
The Attack IVs are to minimize confusion and Foul Play damage.

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Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Ho-Oh is my sleep counter and wallbreaker.
Banded Brave Bird or Sacred Fire wrecks anything that doesn't resist it.
The EVs are to be able to take a +2 Thunder from a Xerneas without rocks.
248 in HP is used to switch in as many times as possible (although Regenerator does help).
Adamant is used to be as powerful as possible.

As I said in the beginning, I am very MegaMence weak. I would love to hear some possible ways to counter this beast.

Thank you for reading this.

AwesomeTorterra, signing off.
 
Hi AwesomeTorterra, I have a quick rate for you. I have to go soon so I'll go more in depth tomorrow or Friday.

First of all, let me know if you are up to change Lucario. IMO it just needs too much support (both team-wise and during battle) to sweep, and there are better options both Mega and non-Mega (Slower than Arceus so it's prone to burn, doesn't resist Fairy or Psychic, still hard to hit Ghosts). Either way, Earthquake is unnecessary because an Adaptability Close Combat hits harder than a Super Effective Earthquake. The defense drops hardly matter since Lucario can't really take hits anyway. I would use Stone Edge over it so you can hit Ho-Oh.

Physical Ferro isn't a good choice. Most of the physical attackers can still beat it (have Fire-coverage or take nothing from Gyro, etc). For example, Mega Salamence can stall out Gyro Ball PP and set up. If you TWave it, Gyro will do less, and you'll be screwed if Mence is running Refresh. The specially defensive spread is overall more solid. As I mentioned before, TWave and Gyro aren't good together, so you can run Protect to scout for moves or get more Leech Seed healing.

Xerneas's spread can be a little different. I would go with this for now: 184 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 44 Spe Modest
It outspeeds Scarf Genesect, and the defense gives it a Special Attack boost so its STABs do less. GeoXerns and Blissey are not really a concern for your team so Focus Blast is probably fine.

Anyway as I said before I'll go into more detail later. There are still some issues like having two Pokemon Ho-Oh can easily come in on but no solid Ho-Oh switch-in and such. Leave me a VM if I forget!
 
Just taking a quick look:

Ho-Oh is a very powerful threat to your team right now, as it can come in on Lucario and Gira-O or switch in on Blissey and Ferro if you get too predictable with Aromatherapy or Gyro Ball (CB Ho-Oh doesn't mind Toxic or T-Wave too much either, as it's bulky and not very fast to begin with, and switches out often so it resets Toxic counter + Regenerator lost health). And once it's in play you have 0 safe switch ins. In fact, you do generally lack Flying resists which also explains the Mega Mence weaknesses.

Another issue is that Ferro and Blissey don't really fit in an offensive team as this. Both are very passive, and don't apply enough offensive pressure while their teammates can't provide enough defensive support. So first off, I would say change Ferrothorn to support Primal Groudon.
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb | Desolate Land
Impish Nature | 248 HP / 52 Def / 192 SpD / 16 Spe
Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Stone Edge / Roar
It's a better GeoXern check (Ferrothorn is OHKOed by +2 Focus Blast), also sets Rocks, checks Kyogre, soft checks Ekiller when desperate, and hits a lot harder than Ferrothorn. I picked Stone Edge because your team is really weak to Ho-Oh, so having that speed creep to surprise it with Stone Edge is worthwhile, but you can pick T-Wave, Toxic or Lava Plume as well. Now that we're on the topic of Ho-Oh, you should also run Stone Edge on Lucario because the only type EQ hits super effectively when Close Combat cannot is Poison, and Poison types aren't at all common in Ubers.

Now I'm not yet sure what to replace Blissey with as yet. My gut feeling was Latias, but that's redundant with Gira-O. Arceus-Rock could be used to deal with Ho-Oh and Mega Mence but it leaves you pretty weak against Primal Kyogre, in that case you'll need a bulkier version of Gira-O.

Finally, if you're open to changing Mega Lucario, I would advise changing it. Mega Mence, for example, can check both Ho-Oh and Ekiller.
 
sup

as you already said and as some people pointed out in their rates, you are incredibily weak to mega salamence. tbh to fix that weakness i would just slap an arceus rock instead of blissey that to me seems just a too much passive mon in oras ubers. otherwise, arceus rock would help you against salamence, extreme killer arceus (with wisp), and ho-oh pretty nicely. it can also defog so giratina can run another move if needed, so you can run dragon tail on it (that helps to not be setup fodder in general) or even phantom force to hit hard xern. if you play in ladder magic coat is a fine option too, as it lets you to troll deoxys-s p badly. i guess that they are all okay options so try them and see what works better on your team.

then, i would just change your lucario as it needs sticky web support to work decently (it's too slow pre-mega otherwise and as it's p frail too, it will be most likely ohko'd my something before doin anything), and because it's just a mediocre mon in general. however, i'm not sure that puttin a mence on your team just because it's the best mega rn would be fine for your team, as without blissey and lucario's priority you have just ho-oh as your answer to xern that even if it's really good at checking xern, i would at least run another xern check (ho-oh needs rocks off to check xern well, so it isn't 100% reliable). honestly, i can see a mega gengar workin well here as a mega, it lets you to revenge-kill xern and it's great against more defensive buildings against your team struggles a bit. focus blast ohkos arceus rock after some damage and then ho-oh has a better day, taunt + sball murders lugia that annoys your xern otherwise. i guess you get the point, mega gengar helps your offensive mons p well. it also lets you to revenge-kill things with destiny bond that is always cool. tbh i can't think now about what moves gengar should run on your team, but i'm p sure that destiny bond and focus blast are mandatory here and so is sludge wave. on the other hand, i don't see sball too much needed as already ferrothorn beats lati twins and lugia.

guess that's all i had, gl with your team man :]
 
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I agree with Alexander for changing Blissey for Arceus-Rock (however I think 2 Defog users on a Ho-Oh team isn't too much) but I don't think MGar is the best choice for your team because if Rocks are up you are 6-0 by GeoXern. So I would recommend using Mega-Scizor to have a second xern check and it can also work as a Lugia counter thx to Toxic+Pursuit:

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Atk / 200 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit / U-Turn
- Toxic
- Roost

60+ Atk let you 2HKO GeoXern.
The rest goes in HP/SpD to better take Lati@s' and Xerneas' moves.

Hope I helped :]
 
the point is that between ho-oh, gengar and ferrothorn, xern has really bad times finding a chance to setup. also, if he decides to use defog rock arceus, he can obviously use another giratina set. i'd probably use something like max attack shadow force tbh. shadow force lets infact to not be setup fodder for geo xern and to hit things hard in general. moves should probably be shadow force, dragon tail, shadow force and wisp or whatever you want. i guess that scizor is a cool mega to use though, but gengar's ability to break defensive building way better and as well trap and kill the things your sweepers need to be removed to sweep more easily, is something to consider too, imo.
 
Alexander. said:
the point is that between ho-oh, gengar and ferrothorn, xern has really bad times finding a chance to setup. also, if he decides to use defog rock arceus, he can obviously use another giratina set. i'd probably use something like max attack shadow force tbh. shadow force lets infact to not be setup fodder for geo xern and to hit things hard in general. moves should probably be shadow force, dragon tail, shadow force and wisp or whatever you want. i guess that scizor is a cool mega to use though, but gengar's ability to break defensive building way better and as well trap and kill the things your sweepers need to be removed to sweep more easily, is something to consider too, imo.
Click to expand...

Running Arc-R Leaves him extremely weak to Restalk CM POgre, which is the 2nd most common set on Pogre. Shadow Force is a really bad move, as it gives setup chances, I would rather run Will-O-Wisp>Defog on Gira-O, to check E-Killer and ease pressure on Arc-Rock, and the previously suggested Arceaus-Rock>Blissey. Now, to check GeoXern and POgre, I sugggest Unaware Clefable or CM Gardevoir-Mega(?) or Venasaur Mega(Best Choice)
 
Nah, Rest Talk CM Kyogre is just bad because it leaves you completely walled by PDon, and that's not like Unaware Clefable, CM Gardevoir and Mega Venusaur are good answers for it anyway (the last 2 sucks in ubers p badly in general, the first one is a better mon in general but it isn't a reliable CM Kyogre answer by any mean either). Also, I already suggest wisp in Giratina's set (just see my previous post here), and how can you say Shadow Tag leaves Giratina as a setup fodder when it's a 120 base power move boosted both by STAB and item and coming from a mon with a 120 base attack fully invested? Guess you are understimating a bit Giratina's sheer power, and Shadow Force is here actually to not being setup fodder for Geo Xern, so it's completely the opposite you said.
 
Not like it matters too much as really few mons in the tier can tank with ease a Shadow Force coming from Giratina, so yeh it definitely doesn't let Giratina being setup fodder.
 
Radio_Active said:
Running Arc-R Leaves him extremely weak to Restalk CM POgre, which is the 2nd most common set on Pogre. Shadow Force is a really bad move, as it gives setup chances, I would rather run Will-O-Wisp>Defog on Gira-O, to check E-Killer and ease pressure on Arc-Rock, and the previously suggested Arceaus-Rock>Blissey. Now, to check GeoXern and POgre, I sugggest Unaware Clefable or CM Gardevoir-Mega(?) or Venasaur Mega(Best Choice)
Click to expand...
Radio_Active, I guess you don't play ubers a lot:
- You recommend using Calm Mind M-Gardevoir and M-Venusaur. The first one doesn't check GeoXern and PKyogre at all and the second one being 2HKOd by Water Spout and losing 1v1 if the opponent has CM PKyogre.
Anyways, the biggest reason that they aren't used in Ubers is that:
1) They are outclassed by PDon for checking the 2 pokes I mentionned
2) They take the Mega slot (in a metagame in what you can use M-Gengar or M-Salamence)
3) They are (specially M-Gardevoir) OHKOd/2HKOd by most of the biggest threats of the tier (M-Mence, EKiller, a lot of Arceus formes, Latis, Primal-Groudon, etc.)
- You recommend to change Defog for Will-O-Wisp in a Ho-Oh team that OBVIOUSLY need Defog support.

Lastly,
252+ Atk Griseous Orb Giratina-O Shadow Force vs. 180 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 246-291 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And Shadow Sneak does 19-22%,
SR does 12% so 56+19+12 = 87% lost (minimum), 100% if you are lucky or just if Xern took 2 SR damages or if 1 layer of Spikes are up.

In the other hand, Xerneas is faster than you and can just click Moonblast and OHKO you.

So I think Shadow Force is a good move, (the charging turn doesn't matter if you use it when you have to) that can be useful in some situations, but it isn't a reliable way to deal with GeoXern and as a lot of cost if you don't predict well.

Hope you understood my bad english.
 
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Never said Giratina is a reliable way to deal with Xerneas though. Just said that if he uses Arceus Rock as a defog user, it can use Shadow Force instead of defog on Giratina in order to not be setup fodder for Geo Xern. Not being setup fodder for a mon or being a reliable answer for it it's really different, for example Ferrothorn lets Xerneas not setup in front of it because of Gyro Ball, but it isn't the greatest answer to it as it gets OHKO'd by +2 Focus Blast, hope you got my point).
 
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