Under-laddered and overrated: cookie cutter offense

Jordansucksatpkmn

Jordansucksatpkmn

Hello smogon, this is my first ou RMT and am posting to help iron out the holes that became apparent as I rose up the ladder. Starting out 11-1 the win rate got a lot more inconsistent and I don't really know how to fix this.

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- U-turn/sludge wave/ idk what to use in this slot
- Rock Slide

The nidoking of OU. Sheer force/ lo boost is stronger than a choice boost with no downside. Landorus-incarnate is an amazing special attacker and base 101 is great for outspeeding the multitude of base 100s. Earth power is there for sheer forced stab, hitting things that don't resist it especially hard. Psychic is there so conk and mega venu don't devastate my team.rock slide is for when those Talon flame think they can come in safely, expecting an earth power. The final slot is still under experimentation. I've tested rock polish, sludge wave, and u turn, and while none of them is exactly amazing, I've gotten the most out of u turn. Suggestions though on what else I can use

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Iron Head

This thing is my lead every time I don't see a genesect on the opponent's team. The evs are decided with this logic: 99 percent of the time, I'm u turning any way, so why not make the incoming poke's job easier by hitting harder, but if anyone has a major ko I lose, I'd like to know so I can adjust the evs. Moves are pretty standard. Flamethrower/ice beam hit hard and provide great revenge killing coverage. U turn because genesect is the best there is at it. Iron head because fuck fairies.

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- taunt
- Fire punch
- Ice Beam

This is my anti genesect pokemon. Fire punch from Deoxys s is guaranteed to Outspeed and OHKO the little bug. Super power is great coverage and is the best shot at ohko ing mega luk(about a 40 percent chance) ice became because there is just so.much that has a 4x weakness to it. Psycho boost for stab that hits like a truck. A concern I have is that Deoxys and genesect have the.same coverage types, if there's a better move for any of these slots, I'd like to know.

Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- roar
- ancient power
- stealth rocks

The first member of my defensive core. Originally a mega venu, I've found heatran to an amazing special wall and the core he forms with rotom is the back bone of the team. Moveset is standard, lava plum for stab, ancient power because some people actually don't switch there Talon flame out. Toxic/protect for stalling and scouting

Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SDef
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump

Chesto-resto rotom, combined with heatran wall most offensive threats. Rotom is always amazing and it's my opinion that he can work on any team you throw him on, he's not number one in usage because he looks cool. The set is pretty standard, but it does work. I use rest over painsplit/ choice set because it's more reliable. Rotom tends to come in on more offensive pokemon, who.don't usually invest in hp, so your pain split gain will be minimal, rest gives you a guaranteed second wind.

Venusaur @ venusaurite
Ability: chlorophyll
EVs: 200 SDef / 252 HP / 56Def
Calm Nature
- leech seeds
- knock off/ sleep powder
- giga drain
- synthesis

The team's current mega, and also happens to complete a FWG core. Mega venusaur does something that mawile and lucario can't, counter bulky waters, which is something I had a lot of trouble with prior. I would like some help on whether or not I should run knock off or sleep powder. The more I use this thing the more I'm loving it, and heatran covers his only two weakness, with only cm reunclis and landorus-incarnate threating both the two.

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Fire Punch
- Ice Beam

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Iron Head

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- U-turn
- Rock Slide

Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Earth Power
- Protect

Excadrill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Shadow Claw
- Rapid Spin

Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SDef
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
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Well problem #1 would be not using a mega :D It would seem like replacing Deox speed with something like lucario or mawile (you even have built in fire absorbtion!) would give you a bit more firepower. The team doesn't have a single set up sweeper, and while I do hesitate a bit to add another steel type (you could run mega-medicham as well), I think heatran + 2 ground immunities lets you get away with it. Since you're not overly afraid with fairies or ice you could also replace excadrill with bulky latias for the more reliable defog. It would also help diversify your coverage a bit, since most of what excadrill does is already covered by lando and heatran. Plus excadrill isn't doing you any favors with his typing, and latias gives you a plethora of needed resistances, while her ice/fairy weakness are very well covered by the rest of the team. On heatran run will-o-wisp over toxic. Toxic sounds a lot more useful than it ever actually is unless you're running a dedicated stall team, whereas a burn can really take a physical threat out of the fight. Also run roar over protect, because having phasing on any team is pretty damn useful. The genosect and rotom sets look good though, although in general I'm not a huge fan of chesto-resto (I much prefer the scarf trick set).
 
Oranos said:
Well problem #1 would be not using a mega :D It would seem like replacing Deox speed with something like lucario or mawile (you even have built in fire absorbtion!) would give you a bit more firepower. The team doesn't have a single set up sweeper, and while I do hesitate a bit to add another steel type (you could run mega-medicham as well), I think heatran + 2 ground immunities lets you get away with it. Since you're not overly afraid with fairies or ice you could also replace excadrill with bulky latias for the more reliable defog. It would also help diversify your coverage a bit, since most of what excadrill does is already covered by lando and heatran. Plus excadrill isn't doing you any favors with his typing, and latias gives you a plethora of needed resistances, while her ice/fairy weakness are very well covered by the rest of the team. On heatran run will-o-wisp over toxic. Toxic sounds a lot more useful than it ever actually is unless you're running a dedicated stall team, whereas a burn can really take a physical threat out of the fight. Also run roar over protect, because having phasing on any team is pretty damn useful. The genosect and rotom sets look good though, although in general I'm not a huge fan of chesto-resto (I much prefer the scarf trick set).
Click to expand...

I'll try to address everything you said.

I'm not opposed to changing Deoxys, but if I do, special mega luke becomes a lot more scarier, so something that could check that would be more welcomed over, say, mega luk himself. I originally tried Zard x, who's amazing, but didn't help In this area. So yea, I'll try out mawile and mega doge out.anyway

Actually, healing wish latias was on the first draft of the team, but she under performed quite often. She was literally only out for a turn at a time and I felt I could be doing more with the team slot. Do.you have another suggestion for spinner/defogger (not named mega scizzor)

I didn't even know heatran got will o wisp lol. But yea I'll be making that switch. Would roar or stealth rocks be more useful?

Trick scarf I feel is better for those who need an offensive presence. here I need rotom to be able to wall stuff or I would never have safe switches.
 
If latias doesn't float your boat then mandibuzz or skarmory can both serve as excellent tanky defog users. You have good electric/ice coverage, and I think both work better than bulky excadrill here (whose weakness compounding problems I mentioned earlier.) You could try running an offensive latios with a surprise defog in the 4th move slot, I've never tried it but I occasionally see it on these foruns. It would pump out more damage than deoxys while having more utility too. You're not too afraid of stealth rock though, I would almost rather see you keep deoxys and replace excadrill with mawile or something. I hate not having defog or rapid spin but spikes and sticky Web are so rare, and you really don't have much of an issue with stealth rock. It just seems like excadrill compounds your weaknesses, and if you're going to do that it might as well be for a pokemon that can really put the team on its back.

At the end of the day you really have to put a mega pokemon somewhere, the benefits are just too great to ignore. I think overall excadrill would be contributing to the most issues, as his typing doesn't really gel with the rest of the group, so I would replace him before I replaced deoxys
 
I agree. Excadrill's typing is not effective, as it gives the team a third water weakness. At this moment, I'm thinking of adding Zard y, since it laughs at bulky waters, a struggle for the team tbh, but then I have a catch 22 going on, so then would mega venu be a decent replacement for excadrill? Or would mawile be better
 
Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Iron Head

This thing is my lead every time I don't see a genesect on the opponent's team. The evs are decided with this logic: 99 percent of the time, I'm u turning any way, so why not make the incoming poke's job easier by hitting harder, but if anyone has a major ko I lose, I'd like to know so I can adjust the evs. Moves are pretty standard. Flamethrower/ice beam hit hard and provide great revenge killing coverage. U turn because genesect is the best there is at it. Iron head because fuck fairies.

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Fire Punch
- Ice Beam

This is my anti genesect pokemon. Fire punch from Deoxys s is guaranteed to Outspeed and OHKO the little bug. Super power is great coverage and is the best shot at ohko ing mega luk(about a 40 percent chance) ice became because there is just so.much that has a 4x weakness to it. Psycho boost for stab that hits like a truck. A concern I have is that Deoxys and genesect have the.same coverage types, if there's a better move for any of these slots, I'd like to know.
Click to expand...

Just somethings about these sets

Genesect: Interesting ev spread, genesect is very difficult to run calcs on because of the download boost impacting the direction it goes, I dislike removing electric from its coverage suite especially since your team in general doesnt have real good attacks to throw in the general direction of water pokemon and compensating that coverage could be interesting. Some notables (after +1 SA download 252 investment gets you the following) ice beam vrs hydreigon 56.3% chance to ohko (0 without) klefki is 87.5%, mega pinsir goes from 43% to guarenteed, in general your evs are leading to a 10-15% change in damage for super effective hits. The equivalent of a ko that youd get from stealth rocks being in play by messing with coverage.

Deoxys-S: I dont know if you ever ran the calcs but Psycho Boost always OHKOs mega lucario so superpower coverage for that isn't necessary/could maybe be something else unless you are looking for coverage against dark types (relevant), he does get knock off and taunt both moves i like on the speedster but 4 attacks is also a strong set.
 
Ender Wiggin said:
With all those attack EVs you could run blaze kick over flamethrower.
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Is that you Tebow?

ust somethings about these sets

Genesect: Interesting ev spread, genesect is very difficult to run calcs on because of the download boost impacting the direction it goes, I dislike removing electric from its coverage suite especially since your team in general doesnt have real good attacks to throw in the general direction of water pokemon and compensating that coverage could be interesting. Some notables (after +1 SA download 252 investment gets you the following) ice beam vrs hydreigon 56.3% chance to ohko (0 without) klefki is 87.5%, mega pinsir goes from 43% to guarenteed, in general your evs are leading to a 10-15% change in damage for super effective hits. The equivalent of a ko that youd get from stealth rocks being in play by messing with coverage.

Deoxys-S: I dont know if you ever ran the calcs but Psycho Boost always OHKOs mega lucario so superpower coverage for that isn't necessary/could maybe be something else unless you are looking for coverage against dark types (relevant), he does get knock off and taunt both moves i like on the speedster but 4 attacks is also a strong set.
Click to expand...

I totally forgot about blaze kick, thanks and my calc on psycho boost was flawed, I don't think I ran my 252 ev on it. I'll go ahead and do knock off>super power

Also +1 252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 356-420 (109.5 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Landorus might like stone edge over rock slide, although the shaky accuracy may not be favorable, U-turn is definetly a better choice than sludge wave for in and out sweeping.
Genesect would probably appreciate more EV's in special attack, maybe 200 EV's in atttack and 52 in sp attack, but download may cover it if you don't want to lose power in its STABS, and if you have a scarf on genesect, giving it Naive nature will help with speed, but if you want to boost its attacking power give it lonely/naughty nature
Iron head over shadow claw on excadrill for sure, gets stab, although it hits ghost types harder, the popular gengar's levitate is removed from mold breaker and earthquake stabbed does slightly more damage even when super effective
 
SwagMasterJack said:
Landorus might like stone edge over rock slide, although the shaky accuracy may not be favorable, U-turn is definetly a better choice than sludge wave for in and out sweeping.
Genesect would probably appreciate more EV's in special attack, maybe 200 EV's in atttack and 52 in sp attack, but download may cover it if you don't want to lose power in its STABS, and if you have a scarf on genesect, giving it Naive nature will help with speed, but if you want to boost its attacking power give it lonely/naughty nature
Iron head over shadow claw on excadrill for sure, gets stab, although it hits ghost types harder, the popular gengar's levitate is removed from mold breaker and earthquake stabbed does slightly more damage even when super effective
Click to expand...

Stone edge isn't sheer force boosted.rock slide is. 75x 1.33 is about 100 so stone edge is unnecessary. Do you have a calc to support the 52 SpA evs? Shadow claw was straight of the smogon set, but in a gen 5 perma sand ubers meta game, shadow claw was needed for girantina, which is no longer relevant since the main two ghost types you'll see, gengar and chandy, both die to EQ. Excadrill is no longer on this team atm anyway, currently going between venusaur solely because fuck smeargle, and mawile became spamming sucker punch is fun.


Pojo getting too boring for you ender?
 
Gengar has levitate so earquake fails. :p Anyway Mega-Venusaur seems really good right now with some of the best defensive stats in the game combined with Thick Fat it's typing becomes amazing.

Been a long time lurker decided to step up my game.
 
Ender Wiggin said:
Gengar has levitate so earquake fails. :p Anyway Mega-Venusaur seems really good right now with some of the best defensive stats in the game combined with Thick Fat it's typing becomes amazing.

Been a long time lurker decided to step up my game.
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Mold breaker > levitate.

Excadrill's not on the team anyhow.
 
fyi, Heatran can learn Stone Edge, so Ancient power is outclassed... if you want to go off of Heatran's less spectacular Attack stat.
 
Psycho boost is needed to OHKO mega luk
I'm debating taunt/knock off on Deoxys

Ancient power is solely for Talon flame which is ohko iirc on most versions

The offensive core is made of mixed wall breakers, I haven't had a problem with special walls as most will be ground/rock/fighting and will thus lose to a coverage move
 
Jordansucksatpkmn said:
Psycho boost is needed to OHKO mega luk
I'm debating taunt/knock off on Deoxys

Ancient power is solely for Talon flame which is ohko iirc on most versions

The offensive core is made of mixed wall breakers, I haven't had a problem with special walls as most will be ground/rock/fighting and will thus lose to a coverage move
Click to expand...
Well you definately dnt need ice beam since genesect is scarfed and has ice beam. So i guess you could dump that for knock off because is necessary for deoxys.
 
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