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orch

Let it be known that I don't have sufficient creativity to name my teams. :(

Hello, I'm Orch. I started playing ubers in last summer, and I was terrible. Really, I was just awful. Then, XY Ubers came around, and kept up with the metagame. I gradually become marginally better. I've made crapload of teams, and only this team stood out as somewhat unique and deserving of a RMT.

I made this team in March or so. I don't really remember, since it was pretty long time ago. The initial skeletons were basically attempts to syneregize Klefki with rapid spinners. Since, klefki and rapid spinners share a pretty harsh ground weakness, so I wanted to get rid of that. My initial builds had bulky exca and klefki on the same team. So, I showed it to Hack and he chastised it for ground weakness (let it be known that 99% of teams that I see on ladder and rmts are ground weak). Then, he suggested consolidating the role of klefki and spinner into one pokemon...
forretress.gif
I'll start the actual RMT itself, and that should fill you guys in through my thought process as how each individual pokemons come together.

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Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Frustration / Facade / Return
- Earthquake / Crunch / Fire Punch / Low Kick

Kangaskhan-Mega is a criminally unappreciated pokemon among good players. It provides an incredibly useful insurance in the form of fake out. Not to mention that it possess wonderfully powerful offensive capability that can muscle through stall teams. The primary reason to use kangaskhan is that it anti-leads against Smeargle and Deoxys-Attack incredibly well, and forcing the opponent into a tough spot. Sucker Punch is just an useful priority that can snipe weakened pokemons. Kangaskhan's bulk should be not underestimated, since it actually can switch into an impressive range of attacks and threaten with powerful STAB Frustration. I put in the slashes for alternative moves that you can use. The last slot is pretty much preference. I personally use Earthquake or Fire Punch.

forretress.gif

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Volt Switch
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

The utility mon of the team. It gets rid of pesky hazards while setting our own hazards! It also toxics support arceus, and can trade itself in emergency situation. It's a great fodder mon after it has fulfilled its purpose. It's also Deo-S's nightmare. This mon is very reliable at spinning against sticky too! The ghost types get toxic'd in the face. If opponent doesn't have ghost type, then bye hazards lol. Volt Switch is crucial to generate momentum and escaping unfavourable situations. Please note that Forretress is rather frail, and you really should only expect it to do little before being death foddered.

zekrom.gif

Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Lonely Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
- Volt Switch

Ah yes, a classic ScarfKrom. It just smashes the unprepared teams. It also synergeizes well with my Landrous-Therian by pivoting through it, rather than taking 50/50 chances with Fairy/Ground cores. Zekrom applies massive pressure against Ho-Oh and Kyogre on opp's team, which is crucial since my team lacks true answers to them. It also 2hkos pretty much everything in meta, so it's pretty damn good!

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Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

My half-baked measure against the onslaught of special attackers in the metagame. SpD Kyogre can roar away GeoXern, however it's severely weakened in the process. I need to be very careful to not overload Kyogre's jobs. It can be difficult if opponent has Yveltal, ScarfOgre, and Xern for instance. And that's the other reason that Zekrom is cruical, since it's an excellent revenge killer to support Kyogre.

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Landorus-Therian (M) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

An extremely fast Landrous-T and very powerful one. I chose Jolly since, it will outspeed all SpecsOgre and hits them hard, which eases SpD Kyogre's job. Not to mention that a lot of Xern are actually slower than Jolly Land-T, so I can just earthquake them to weaken them. Kangaskhan and Land-T creates a formidable physical force that is difficult to break. Stealth Rock is a mandatory utility move to prevent opponent from getting free switches. yada I'm pretty sure that you all know what stealth rock is for. U-turn is fantastic on a pivotal pokemon, especially with Forretress's volt switch and Zekrom's volt switch. I can easily switch around with minimal prediction. Land-T can bait Grassceus switch and hits it hard with U-Turn. Land-T also, becomes Blaziken check in rain support from Kyogre. It can absorb the Bolt Strikes from Zekrom. Don't ever underestimate the power of EP Land-T.

arceus-ghost.gif

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Focus Blast
- Recover
- Calm Mind

I went with very offensive Ghostceus over bulky variants. The offensive set allows me to pressure opponent more. Since, I have rather disposable fodder in the form of Forretress, I can afford to neglect the necessity of directly checking the stuff that Ghostceus is supposed to check. Focus blast is favored over WoW to maintain the offense and punishing Yveltal switch ins, which is compounded after SR. Ghostceus is my win condition. Usually, when I get +1, it's over for opponent.

Threat List
Ingrain Geomancy Xerneas (Uh oh, I need to sac my whole team to fake out it to death... Oops)
Yveltal
Kyogre
CM Arceus variants (especially Refresh ones) are a pain


I'd like to apologize for the lack of replays. I've used this team to playtest for UPL and whatnot countless time, and it has done consistently well. And of course, due to the secretive nature of that, I didn't save any replays. And yes, I did use this team vs Fixed and lost.

Shout Outs
Hack - The only good player who bothers to bear with my bullshit and helps me to become better. Thanks. :)
Durians - Best UPL team ever!
Blue J - kacaw
Malefic - keep it up
Steelgrill - hottest grill around
Haruno - mah grill who is still wrong about Landorus-Therian.
Ubers room is unbearable sometimes, but it's all in a jolly good time!

importable:
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Frustration
- Earthquake

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Volt Switch
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Lonely Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
- Volt Switch

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Focus Blast
- Recover
- Calm Mind
 
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I would personally rename the team: A Mixed Bag(worm)
Take it as you will though

Forretress / 10

Man that steel nerf sucks though, otherwise it might help you to relieve pressure on Ogre with Forretress. Geoxern as last mon also sucks for this team but there really isn't much that can be done about this problem :(. The team is pretty well optimized and I don't think there is a way to make the build (that actually works) all that much better which would normally put this 9 / 10 in my humble opinion. The 8 / 10 come in when I see you didn't add much flavor (nicknames, silly comments that are also informative in there own way ect.) but that is just a preference of mine. Don't worry Orch, we will try our best to help you out with creative elements in the future ;]. Otherwise this was very informative and went through each of the mons and what they do in a simple, easy to read fashion.

My Rate:
8 / 10
  • Solid build; will steal
  • Very informative; easy to use after reading
  • Needs flavor; really needs a title >:[
  • Very good overall <3
 
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Hehe bwoi, nice team :]

Change ogre to CM, then arc to defog which lets you get rid of forre, and use keys instead of forre. Thid gives you a much better team (that doesnt auto-lose to hp fire xern).
 
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ApplepieFTW said:
Hehe bwoi, nice team :]

Change ogre to CM, then arc to defog which lets you get rid of forre, and use keys instead of forre. Thid gives you a much better team (that doesnt auto-lose to hp fire xern).
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???

Forretress is not a xern check, so idk why you think that I auto lose to hp fire xern. And, if I do change arc to defog, then that defeats the purpose of the team- to spikestack without removing my own hazards. CM ogre would just make me far more weak to SpA stuff than before lol.
 
Hey Orch,

Very solid team. Overall, I'd say the main issue is that Kyogre is slightly overburdened with the task of checking Yveltal, Kyogre, and Xerneas (which I know you mentioned, but I will reiterate it still). You pretty much are forced to keep Kyogre in reserves since it needs to be at high enough HP to check GeoXern, which could lead to issues against opposing Yveltal and Kyogre. I will also say that Kyogre is very annoying for this team since you are forced into your own Kyogre every time it switches in, which can easily be abused with prediction. Other issues I see is that there is no real fast way to break down stall, and a general lack of Ho-Oh switch-ins since Lando-T and Zekrom both hate burn. Ekiller is a mild annoyance since Forre and Lando-T are meh as Ekiller checks and Ghostceus can't burn it.

As for fixing this stuff, I'm not really sure what to do here. Running more toxic in general, on say Lando-T can help pressure Defog Arceus, which can let you keep up rocks better, limiting Ho-Oh as a threat. You honestly really want to keep hazards up a lot since it helps against Kyogre too. I don't see an easy fix to Kyogre overall unfortunately (barring some dramatic change), and stallbreaking is kinda difficult to fit too. I suppose Kyogre is your best answer to stall. You say that Kanga can muscle through but it will get burned pretty easily since stall teams should have a decent answer to it. Pure speculation though. If there is a mon you could replace, Kangaskhan is your best bet since it doesn't add defensive synergy to the team (it's not like it is necessary as a check to anything).

OPTIMIZATION:

Overall there are not many optimization changes, but maybe Crunch on Kanga to beat the Ghosts that spinblock Forretress, and 4 Def EVs on Ghostceus since most Genesect run physical moves. Also, it is a toss up with WoW and Recover, since it chooses whether to beat Ekiller or Mewtwo.

Good luck!
 
haxiom said:
Hey Orch,

Very solid team. Overall, I'd say the main issue is that Kyogre is slightly overburdened with the task of checking Yveltal, Kyogre, and Xerneas (which I know you mentioned, but I will reiterate it still). You pretty much are forced to keep Kyogre in reserves since it needs to be at high enough HP to check GeoXern, which could lead to issues against opposing Yveltal and Kyogre. I will also say that Kyogre is very annoying for this team since you are forced into your own Kyogre every time it switches in, which can easily be abused with prediction. Other issues I see is that there is no real fast way to break down stall, and a general lack of Ho-Oh switch-ins since Lando-T and Zekrom both hate burn. Ekiller is a mild annoyance since Forre and Lando-T are meh as Ekiller checks and Ghostceus can't burn it.

As for fixing this stuff, I'm not really sure what to do here. Running more toxic in general, on say Lando-T can help pressure Defog Arceus, which can let you keep up rocks better, limiting Ho-Oh as a threat. You honestly really want to keep hazards up a lot since it helps against Kyogre too. I don't see an easy fix to Kyogre overall unfortunately (barring some dramatic change), and stallbreaking is kinda difficult to fit too. I suppose Kyogre is your best answer to stall. You say that Kanga can muscle through but it will get burned pretty easily since stall teams should have a decent answer to it. Pure speculation though. If there is a mon you could replace, Kangaskhan is your best bet since it doesn't add defensive synergy to the team (it's not like it is necessary as a check to anything).

OPTIMIZATION:

Overall there are not many optimization changes, but maybe Crunch on Kanga to beat the Ghosts that spinblock Forretress, and 4 Def EVs on Ghostceus since most Genesect run physical moves. Also, it is a toss up with WoW and Recover, since it chooses whether to beat Ekiller or Mewtwo.

Good luck!
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Thanks for posting a quality rate.

I absolutely agree with the sentiment that Kyogre is overburdened. However, your bit about ekiller is odd, since you missed focus blast on ghostceus. Focus blast easily 2hkos Ekiller. Ekiller is one of team's least concerns honestly. I expected more from you than to suggest that I should run WoW on a Focus Blast ghostceus... I disagree with Kyogre being my stallbreaker. Any well built stall team will have Rest Palkia which easily PP stalls Kyogre to death. The best stall-breaker that I have is EP Land-t. It's able to surprise and punch holes in opponent's team and maintain the momentum with u-turn. Also, SpD Kyogre act as an excellent status sponge, so I don't really worry about obvious WoW's much lol. Not to mention that most support mons are huge spikes bait. I've also allowed ghostceus to take Toxic, however it can be a potent stallbreaker without any boosts. And, that is the other reason that I want to keep it offensive.

Ho-Oh is least of my concerns too. Half of my team directly threatens it. And, it's next to impossible to spin against my ghostceus. If they dare to defog, then they will be punished by Ghostceus. And, with smart switches, I can bait sacred fire into Kyogre, then Brave bird into Land-T or Zekrom. If the situation is truly dire, then I'll just sack Forretress. Also, recall that Forretress is not a Ho-Oh bait, since it has volt switch.

I do recognize that Kangaskhan seems expendable. However, it is immensely helpful for pressuring opponent to play very predictable switches. Also, the fake out is invaluable, so that I still can check GeoXern even if Kyogre is weakened or fainted. It's a glue.

Thanks for catching 4 def evs on Ghostceus, you're right about that.
 
orch said:
Thanks for posting a quality rate.

I absolutely agree with the sentiment that Kyogre is overburdened. However, your bit about ekiller is odd, since you missed focus blast on ghostceus. Focus blast easily 2hkos Ekiller. Ekiller is one of team's least concerns honestly. I expected more from you than to suggest that I should run WoW on a Focus Blast ghostceus... I disagree with Kyogre being my stallbreaker. Any well built stall team will have Rest Palkia which easily PP stalls Kyogre to death. The best stall-breaker that I have is EP Land-t. It's able to surprise and punch holes in opponent's team and maintain the momentum with u-turn. Also, SpD Kyogre act as an excellent status sponge, so I don't really worry about obvious WoW's much lol. Not to mention that most support mons are huge spikes bait. I've also allowed ghostceus to take Toxic, however it can be a potent stallbreaker without any boosts. And, that is the other reason that I want to keep it offensive.

Ho-Oh is least of my concerns too. Half of my team directly threatens it. And, it's next to impossible to spin against my ghostceus. If they dare to defog, then they will be punished by Ghostceus. And, with smart switches, I can bait sacred fire into Kyogre, then Brave bird into Land-T or Zekrom. If the situation is truly dire, then I'll just sack Forretress. Also, recall that Forretress is not a Ho-Oh bait, since it has volt switch.

I do recognize that Kangaskhan seems expendable. However, it is immensely helpful for pressuring opponent to play very predictable switches. Also, the fake out is invaluable, so that I still can check GeoXern even if Kyogre is weakened or fainted. It's a glue.

Thanks for catching 4 def evs on Ghostceus, you're right about that.
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Oh wow you're completely right i missed focus blast and therefore screwed up my next comment about WoW. Ugh. What am I doing. I concede most of your points about stuff in general, I was kinda doing this quick because... erm it's a long story but there was a flood while I was on a plane that got diverted to Detroit and I was supposed to be helping clean. Ugh. Sorry for misinformed rate.
 
Yeah the build is pretty solid, I wanna think Yveltal poses the biggest threat to it courtesy of Ghostceus being on the team, I'd personally try Arceus-Fairy (CM+Wisp or Refresh) which could aid you in either stallbreaking or checking physical threats, which your core cannot do very efficiently due to Lando-T having that EP set and Forretress being specially defensive. I'd also try regular defensive Lando-T with Toxic, especially if you opt for refresh Arceus-Fairy, it helps out vs some physical threats, especially Ho-oh and E-killer, who become more threatening after changing your Arceus forme. Otherwise I don't have much to add, it's fun to try Forretress but ultimately it might be letting you down as it's not too great of a mon these days. I encourage you to keep playing with the team however, and put in the hours improving the way you play and you will surely become an excellent player in due time.
 
I've updated my OP a bit, and I'll probably expand on threat list later on. Hack's suggested changes to Fairyceus and defensive landorus-t were cool. And, he forced me to play a game with these changes.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-134016295

Probably not the best game to showcase this team's strength, but you can see how effective this team can be.
 
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