UPDATED [STABmons] Togekiss is Broken!

Will anyone try out STABmons after viewing this RMT?


  • Total voters
    20
Introduction:

Thanks to a post on Facebook the other day I discovered the STABmons metagame that is ran here on Smogon. For people who are unaware of it, the premise is fairly simple, the Pokemon can use any move it gains STAB on, on top of it's existing movepool. This means such things as Shell Smash [insert any Normal type Pokemon here] or Spore on any Grass type. In addition to this, if a Pokemon changes type during Evolution it gains STAB from its previous typing alongside its new typing. A good example of this is Gallade who gets access to Psychic, Fighting and Fairy moves.

This looked a very interesting meta to play in so I jumped right into the thread to see what threats were useful and how the game was played. What I found was a very Offensive meta, suited to players like myself, and the very powerful Eeveelutions, and a lot of Normal Spam (basically Extreme Speed and over powered boosting moves). One area that finally made me make a team was the movepool that one of my favourite Pokemon, Togekiss, gets access too, I will get into this in the RMT.

Without further ado, here it is!

This team, while limited in the battles it has taken part in (mainly due to it being a smaller metagame, is currently ranked at #9 under the Alt of Aizens Espada. Proof is below:
cKNki.png


Team Building: WILL BE COMPLETED AT A LATER DATE
togekiss.gif
heatran.gif
espeon.gif
empoleon.gif
sableye.gif
diggersby.gif

In-Depth Analysis:
togekiss.gif

Togekiss @ Power Herb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs:
248 HP / 96 Spd / 120 SAtk / 40 Def / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Oblivion Wing
- Substitute
- Geomancy

Role on the Team: Togekiss is the main threat on the team, running a bulky Geomancy set. Gives me a couple of useful immunities to Dragon and Ground.

Description: Here is the reason I made the team in the first place. With its fantastic and unique typing Togekiss got some brilliant moves to play around with. This set utilizes an improvement in both STABS, Moonblast for an increase in power over Dazzling Gleam, along with a chance to reduce the opposing Pokemons Special Attack. Oblivion Wing gives a chance of better recovery than Roost, hits harder than Air Slash and has perfect accuracy. Due to this it left me with some free moveslots. Geomancy was the obvious choice, as it is with pretty much every Fairy in STABmons, and with Power Herb I get the +2 instantly. The final slot was more difficult to decide, but the choice is why the set works so well. Substitute works perfectly here, it allows me to block any Status that can harm my sweep, and gives me free opportunity to set up. Plus the recovery via Oblivion lets me set it up numerous times during a battle. The EVs are a little complicated but they do serve a purpose. To begin with 248 HP is for overall bulk, hitting an odd number as to let me switch into rocks 4 times if need be. the 92 speed let me hit 220 speed before a Geomancy, then hitting 440, which outspeeds pretty much the entire unboosted metagame, along with quite a lot of +1s. 48 Def gives some extra survivability on the weaker defence, while the rest goes into Special Attack to give it some power, even before Geomancy.

heatran.gif

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Doom Desire
- Lava Plume
- King's Shield
- Roar

Role on the Team: Another Bulky attacker, specialises in beating the various Fairy types in the tier, it also acts as a phazer, to stop Set Up sweepers from getting out of hand.
Description: Heatran was suggested by a couple of people for use on this team. To fit it in I decided to replace what I felt was the weakest member in Greninja. This change has proven successful, as while I have lost the ability to quickly spread Sleep, I can now check a lot more Pokemon than before. I decided to use a more bulky offense set than I normally do with Heatran, allowing me to inflict heavy damage, while still absorbing enough hits. The main damage source comes from Doom Desire, a move which hits a couple of turns after use. This allows me to hit any switch ins in the next few turns, usually baiting a Fairy in through a series of switches myself. Lava Plume was the Fire STAB of choice, being able to spread burn, and still hitting hard. King's Shield allows me to act as a pseudo Physical Wall, while scouting the opponent. Roar is the phazing move, and when used against Espeon, can give me a free switch into a check if necassary. The EV's are for maximum HP and Sp.Atk, the 4 in speed.

Previous Team Member
greninja.gif

Greninja @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Night Daze
- Dark Void
- Parting Shot
Role on the team: Greninja is my usual suicide lead, offering Status from Dark Void. Parting Shot offers the option of pseudo-phazing. In a pinch it can be a Special Attacker.

Description: This is a set that can be optimized a lot better than it currently is. The draw of using Greninja came from access to one of the potentially strongest Attacks in the Meta through Water Spout, and having the speed to be able to use it effectively during a battle. It also offers fantastic team support from its Dark STABs. Dark Void was the obvious choice, as one of the best Sleep moves (not including Spore). Again the high base speed allows it to work often. Parting Shot is used to weaken a would be counter and gain a switch to a counter of my own. If still available it late game, it can be used repeatedly to reduce the stats of an opponent further. Night Daze was chosen over Dark Pulse because I feel that the Flinch chance of Dark Pulse isn't that useful for this team. The EVs are standard fare for a Greninja, maximum Speed and Special Attack, the leftover go to HP

On a side note, I would like an opinion on the viability of Physical Greninja in this meta,my idea being Power-up Punch, Knock Off, Water Shuriken + Dark Void. It would give the team a little more diversity.

espeon.gif

Espeon @ Earth Plate
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Judgment
- Shadow Ball
- Shell Smash

Role on the team: The other Special sweeper, and arguably in the top 3 Pokemon in STABmons.

Description: For those familiar with the meta, Eeveelutions are BROKEN! Espeon here is beyond that, due to it's amazing ability, and through Eevee gains access to the best boosting move through Shell Smash and Judgment, which in this case turns into a Ground type attack to hit most Steels who resist the STAB, along with Dark types who are immune. Stored Power is used over Psystrike for 2 reasons: firstly Shell Smash adds a lot of power to Stored Power, and secondly with the boost, even Special Walls get decimated, so the ability to hit the Physical defence stat is rather unnecessary. The final move for the set is Shadow Ball, its main use being on opposing Espeons due to being super effective, it also has fairly good coverage along side Stored Power.. As with Greninja, the standard EVs are in place for offensive Espeon, the only change being Modest over Timid for more power.

empoleon.gif

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- King's Shield
- Stealth Rock​

Role on the Team: Empoleon is my Physical Wall, resisting or immune to all of the attacks that Togekiss is weak to bar Electric. It is also my hazard remover and setter.

Description: After I got those first 3 picked, I was pretty lost for where to go from there. I noticed I had a lot of offensive presence, but no defensive options. I was also fairly hazard weak, especially if Espeon is down, or can't risk a switch in (against Tyranitar for example). With its great defensive typing, Empoleon was an obvious choice, especially with access to Defog, allowing me to remove any hazards that may hinder the team. Scald was the STAB of choice for a defensive Pokemon such as itself, due to the Burn chance. The Steel typing gave it another option that walls dream of, in the form of King's Shield. Thanks to this it can check a lot of Physical threats, and threaten to further cripple them with the aforementioned Scald. For my last move, I was in a similar situation to Espeon and not knowing what to use. I went for a standard choice of Stealth Rocks to give my team some hazard support, allowing me to net some OHKOs I may not have been able to get otherwise.

sableye.gif

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Topsy-Turvy/Parting Shot
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp

Role on the team: Sableye is the teams Prankster support, Special wall, and another Status spreader. In a similar fashion to Togekiss it brings some very important immunities into the mix of Fighting and Normal//
Description: Sableye in STABmons functions fairly similar to in the standard metagame. The main differences are in the choice of support moves, thanks to Dark typing giving it access to such things as Dark Void, Topsy Turvy, Parting Shot to name a few. My set uses Topsy-Turvy at present, with the ability to invert any stat change with priority being very powerful It used to be Parting Shot (which I do use occasionally) however I have had more success using Topsy-Turvy. Will-O-Wisp and Recover are taken straight from the standard set, granting longevity and status to my wall. Foul Play is also selected, as it gains STAB, hits the dangerous Espeon for x2 damage. Finally I have noticed that reducing IVs to take less damage from Foul Play is almost non existent in my experience so far.

diggersby.gif

Diggersby @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Wild Charge
- Hammer Arm

Role on the Team: Physical revenge killer, and can function as a sweeper in some circumstances

Description: Diggersby was a rushed selection, to give me an opportunity to test the power of Normal Spam in STABmons. Thanks to Huge Power, Choice Band, and STAB, Extreme Speed is extremely (my only pun!!) powerful. This gives me a lot of OHKO's on anything that doesn't resist, even some bulkier Pokemon. The rest of the attacks are mainly filler to be honest, seen as Extreme Speed is the spam button. However Earthquake sees some play against Steels, and Hammer Arm hits Tyranitar much harder. Unfortunately there isn't much more in depth I can go with this description.


So yeah, there is my first STABmon RMT. I highly recommend giving the tier a chance, it is a very fun and often varied place to battle. Here is a link to find out more on the tier and I hope you have enjoyed reading, any comments and suggestions are welcome.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stabmons-suspect-testing-see-post-2.3493081/

I will do a full team building section and threat list at a later date.

The Importable!:
Togekiss @ Power Herb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Spd / 120 SAtk / 40 Def / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Oblivion Wing
- Substitute
- Geomancy

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Doom Desire
- Lava Plume
- King's Shield
- Roar

Espeon @ Earth Plate
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Judgment
- Shadow Ball
- Shell Smash

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- King's Shield
- Stealth Rock

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Topsy-Turvy
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp

Diggersby @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Wild Charge
- Hammer Arm
 
Last edited:
*Thread bump*
After a few more battles my rating dropped into the 40's. I haven't found my weak links as such but I would like to fit Heatran and/or Aegislash into the team. Maybe over Diggersby, Empoleon or Greninja?
 
If I include Heatran over something then I can manage that. I haven't found the lack of Fire coverage a hinderance so far, due to having Ground and Fighting for Steel, Flying for Grass and Fighting for Ice.

Any suggestions for what set to use and who to replace? Considering in STABmons Heatran can use things like Kings Shield, Blue Flare etc.
 
I am currently running a Heatran that I ran into playing. It had Doom Desire, King's Shield, and Lava Plume. I didn't know its last move, but I put Earth Power on it just for coverage.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Doom Desire
- King's Shield
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power

It seems to be running well, but could have some changes to it.
 
I like the look of the heatran set, how viable would it be running roar, and maybe air balloon. To act as a check to Earth Plate She'll Smash Espeon?
 
Yeah, I realized the Air Balloon problem because my Heatran was getting wrecked by EQ. And I would probably get rid of Earth Power for Roar, but the problem is Magic Bounce Espeon, which everyone runs if they are running Espeon, so I really don't know how effective Roar would be against Espeon.
 
My point about roar was more general about set up pokemon, it could also act as pseudo scouting allowing you to switch yourself into a counter.
After a shell smash by espeon, I'm sure that Heatran can grab the KO easily enough
 
I've tried this set out a bit and my only advice would be to switch defog on Empoleon with doom desire. I had a little more success because this team really isn't that hazards weak.
 
This team is utterly wrecked by sylveon there are a lot of things i think can improve this team, make empoleon a heatran, give sableye topsy turvy over knock off, and make diggersy a shell smash set with shell smash, eq, espeed, and just a filler idk what to put there. Otherwise really solid team!
 
I will give Doom Desire a try over Defog, sounds interesting.
I have never really had a problem with Sylveon so far, Togekiss and Espeon can handle it, Espeon needs to set up first. Togekiss cab survive a boomburst set up geo then spam Oblivion Wing generally healing more than boomburst deals out.
I am trying Heatran over Greninja at the moment, as Greninja has been quite underwhelming. Topsy Turvy is being tested over Parting Shot on Sableye
 
A little update, the OP will be updated with the changes I'm writing here shortly. I have tested a few things over the last few days, Empoleon has been used Stealth Rocks over Toxic, so far it has proven more effective than Toxic, it is still used in maybe 1/5 battes successfully which isn't great.
I have also replaced Greninja with Heatran, running a 252 HP/252 Sp.A/4 Spe spread, Doom Desire, Lava Plume, King's Shield and Roar. This is the most major change to the team, it has gave me better options against Fairies, and the Specially based Normal Spam.
Sableye is still alternating between Parting Shot and Topsy Turvy, I would like to fit both in, however the rest of the moveset I feel is necassary, Topsy Turving is currently seeming better than Parting Shot.
I have changed all the IV's so that 0 ATK is on everything without a Physical attack, meaning less damage from the occasional Foul Play or Confusion.

My laddering with these changes has improved slightly, I have now reached top 10 (9th place) while holding the 3rd best GXE (the change of winning any random battle) with a rating of 78.4. Only the top 2 have a better score. Any ways to improve the team further are greatly appreciated.
cKNki.png
 
This is just a personal choice but I have been seeing a lot of Heatrans with Fiery Dance over Lava Plume. I was thinking about changing my Heatran set to have it, as it seems like it may be a better choice, since it is rare that I use Lava Plume and the burn actually hits.
 
It is something worth considering, I am liking Lava Plume at the moment, though it suits my more bulky build, I think Fiery Dance would fit better on a more speed based set e.g. timid 252/252 spread
 
After another laddering session I have managed to reach 4th in the ladder, I would welcome any more suggestions to give me the push up to the top, will update the OP with my new peak later
 
Actually I found a better move than Lava Plume and Fiery Dance. Use Searing Shot. While you can only use it 8 times, it has 100 power and still has that 30% chance to burn.
 
That could be worth a test, Heatran normally does it job before I would have ran out of pp so that won't be an issue for it
 
Can you post a couple links to the games you have played so we can have some ideas of where you can improve the team and what not?
 
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