Usefulness of stat-downs

Turismo2029

I'm wondering what the communities opinion on stat-downs is?

I think they are an excellent way of buying time and giving you some free space to try for a setup, and I'm interested in peoples thoughts on stat-downs.

By stat-down I don't mean WOW or TWave, I'm talkin' like Charm and Flash.

They are much more useful in competitive matches than they first appear to be, they are useless in-game however, so I feel like people just shrug them off since they aren't good in-game, when it comes down to mind games though, they are an excellent way of forcing your opponents hand.

EDIT: I thought I'd include an example:

Here's a decent way of getting rid of physical sweepers, as soon as you see them basically, switch this in...

MESPRIT @ Chesto Berry
- Charm
- Rest
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Yeah the attacks don't matter neither does it's EV's or nature, basically you switch it in, use Charm and lower the opponents attack by 2 stages each time you use it, it basically forces them into switching their physical sweeper out since it'll be dealing little to no damage after a few Charms, use Rest when you get low.
This gives you a chance of statting up or something but the main thing is you've got rid of the threat, passively, but the threat is still gone.
It can potentially turn the tide of the battle, especially since they will no doubt switch in their counter to your stat-down dude, and you can simply switch in your next guy or something.

I'm rambling, but the idea in my head is good. >_>
 
I only see stat downs as a way of forcing switches to get more SR or Spikes damage. Also, in the case of MSDOS you could use it to weaken your counters to hit them harder.
 
If your opponent gets a stat down, their main choice is to switch. This can be used to your advantage if you need to set up, use pursuit on them, or have stealth rock down.
 
I'd use Calm Mind on that Mesprit. You Charm on someone physical, and they usually send in a special sweeper, since they know a new physical one would get Charmed. So you Calm Mind on the switch to a special sweeper.
 
Could work, also a nice use of Charm is this Umbreon

item: Leftovers
nature:Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Sp. Def, 6 Def
~Charm
~Mean Look
~Baton Pass
~Wish/Moonlight/Confuse Ray

last move is up to your choice. an excellent stopper.
 
They're useful on things like Screechgon and MSDos which are designed to force switches but are generally outclassed by Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave - not only do they lower stats by the same or more, but they stay longer and have other effects.
 
Memento seems to be the best stat-down move, as it gets you two turns instead of one. Like,

Gardevoir @ Something
- Memento
- Something
- Something
- Something

when you Memento with this, send out:

Smeargle @ Salac Berry
- Belly Drum
- Subsitute
- Baton Pass
- Spore

Baton Pass the +6 Attack to something that can take and hit and have fun 6-0'ing.

Or when your opponent has got no Steels/Rocks/Ghosts,

Linoone @ Salac Berry / Shell Bell
- Return / Double-Edge
- Belly Drum
- Something
- Something

can do the job
 
the Lexx said:
They're useful on things like Screechgon and MSDos which are designed to force switches but are generally outclassed by Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave - not only do they lower stats by the same or more, but they stay longer and have other effects.
Click to expand...

But things like Mesprit don't get WilloWisp, so you have to either use Charm or don't use any -stage moves.

There's also things like Heracross and Machamp, with Guts, that wouldn't mind a status. Charm hurts them (of course, I'm not sure why a Machamp would switch in on a Mesprit, and Heracross may not want to risk the CM'ed Bolt/Beam), putting a status on them will activate the Guts.
 
@ HP [leaves], Memento is definitely crippling but you've got to remember that it kills off your own pokemon... because of this, Explosion is far more commonly-used as its power can be overwhelming
 
I also don't like Memento, but the point of the move is giving you the right chance to setup. Pretty good to get a Belly Drum boost (as mentioned above).

WoW >>> Charm because it lasts the whole match, tough Charm do have some potential.

A great user of Screech (another stat lowering move) is Crobat. Have you ever tought how damage a Screech Crobat with U-turn could make, and how many switches it would force? But SR weak ruins it as you have to switch pretty often (mainly because of U-turn) but it still deserves a mention.
 
I'd rather use Steelix for Screeching. It takes physical hits alot better (though Crobat takes special hits better [but still gets hit hard by them] because of slightly higher HP and SpDef), and has better typing. It also has a 4x resistance to Stealth Rock, so you don't get hurt from that as much as Crobat will.

Of course, Steelix can't do the Screech -> U-Turn thing, but it's got enough power in the moves it has already (Stone Edge, Earthquake, etc.) to make the opponent likely switch out
 
I really like the idea of using Tyranitar to Screech stuff, since it forces switches enough as it is and gets the STAB Pursuit to abuse it.

Maybe even Flygon; afraid that most of the time I overlooked the dragonfly but Screechsaulting is appealing...
 
Oh, this is a better response than expected.

I was expecting more along the lines of a "stupid idea noob I'd TTar yo ass if you tried that on me".

I like the Screech/U-turn idea, but it doesn't really let you setup, I suppose it could allow your setup-dude to come in without fear of being OHKO'd, like, it would be excellent frail-sweeper support.
 
Screech + U-Turn on Flygon has brought me some decent results so far. It's pretty much something eats decent damage off of U-Turn, or something comes in to resist it, gets turned and faces a counter.

Debuffs are better than they'd first appear, but like it's been said, without some form of spikes or set up, its useless.
 
The Charm / CM / Boltbeam (though I'd still use Psychic to (hopefully) avoid being walled by Blissey) Mesprit looks cool, really. I'd like to see that in action, though testing probably has to wait until competitor as I don't have the guts to catch a good one.

Also, needs lefties but everyone probably figured it out already.
 
Yeah well is you can bring it on a physical sweeper as soon as they come in, you can run 'em off before they get to stat-up really, so you've pushed them out the way and can then Calm Mind after they are doing crap all damage.

I think after like 2 Charms they'd be definitely switching, I personally would switch out after one. >_>
 
Misch said:
The Charm / CM / Boltbeam (though I'd still use Psychic to (hopefully) avoid being walled by Blissey) Mesprit looks cool, really. I'd like to see that in action, though testing probably has to wait until competitor as I don't have the guts to catch a good one.

Also, needs lefties but everyone probably figured it out already.
Click to expand...

Would not Reflect be better for that set?? =/
 
Reflect is okay but doesn't force the switch sometimes since the Reflect just wears out, and it can be broken.

Is there any way to reduce the enemies special attack sharply?
 
I believe the move your talking about is Attract. But that doesn't sound like a good idea (especially if your resorting to using some sort of 50% hax as a way to JUST force switches) when you have things like Confuse Ray, or even possibly Swagger on a special sweeper if your going for that idea. There are also Pokemon, although worthless like Wailord, who have the Ability Oblivous. Playing the guessing game with genders isn't neccessarily fun either.

Although giving a lengthy explanation, I am in no way suggesting that I use Confusion to force switches.
 
Yaridovich said:
I believe the move your talking about is Attract. But that doesn't sound like a good idea (especially if your resorting to using some sort of 50% hax as a way to JUST force switches) when you have things like Confuse Ray, or even possibly Swagger on a special sweeper if your going for that idea. There are also Pokemon, although worthless like Wailord, who have the Ability Oblivous. Playing the guessing game with genders isn't neccessarily fun either.

Although giving a lengthy explanation, I am in no way suggesting that I use Confusion to force switches.
Click to expand...

no, captivate reduces the foes sp atk 2 stages if they are the opposite gender
 
Yaridovich said:
I believe the move your talking about is Attract. But that doesn't sound like a good idea (especially if your resorting to using some sort of 50% hax as a way to JUST force switches) when you have things like Confuse Ray, or even possibly Swagger on a special sweeper if your going for that idea. There are also Pokemon, although worthless like Wailord, who have the Ability Oblivous. Playing the guessing game with genders isn't neccessarily fun either.

Although giving a lengthy explanation, I am in no way suggesting that I use Confusion to force switches.
Click to expand...

Glen said:
no, captivate reduces the foes sp atk 2 stages if they are the opposite gender
Click to expand...
What Glen said: Attract and Captivate are different moves. Captivate is one of the new TMs, although I can see how the two can be confused due to their similar requirements.
 
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