UU Monotype Week 3 - Disappointing Dragons :(

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What Monotype should I do for next week's challenge?


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    39
  • Poll closed .

KM

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UU MONOTYPE CHALLENGE WEEK 3 - DRAGON
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Hey everyone :).
Man, I've been dreading this. Out of all the monotypes in the UU challenge, Dragon was by far the one I was most scared about. The only two dragons in the entire UU tier are Flygon and Kingdra, and while they are certainly monsters in their own right, they can't function well without proper support. Plunging into the depths of RU, only Druddigon remains to be selected, so it's all NFE's from that point on.

That said, I managed to score a fairly decent w/l ratio. Please note that these stats are unfortunately not exact, as Smogon went into emergency mode and reset my ladder ranking so I had to fairly accurately guess what I was at before. Without further ado, the stats.

General Rules (read if new to series)
General Rules:
- Each team must be a different Monotype.
- For each Monotype Challenge, I am allowed 1 (count 'em, one) Wild Card. A Wild Card is basically any pokemon in the UU- tiers that does not necessarily have to be the type of my Monotype.
- Every type will be eventually done, no matter how many viable pokemon there are.

Current Available Types:
Dark
Electric
Fighting
Fire
Flying
Ghost
Grass
Ground
Ice
Normal
Poison
Psychic
Rock
Water

Okay, that was a bit of ado. Here's the stats.

Alt: Kitten Dragon 2
Overall W/L Stats: 64/36
W/L ratio: 1.77..... eh
ACRE: N/A, ladder reset on 85 battles
GXE: N/A
Glicko2: N/A
Average W/L ratio: 2.93
Average ACRE: 1774
Average GXE: 78.5
Average Glicko2: 1839 ± 46
Current "best" Monotype: Bug :D
Total W/L: 220.5/81.5
Challenge Percent Complete: 18.75%

If you're still confused about how this RMT works or what the basic layout of this challenge is, it's explained better in my first RMT, which I will link two words from now. (word word) http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3483413


The Meat​

~~Teambuilding Process~~

As I mentioned before, I really didn't have too many options in terms of teambuilding. Kingdra and Flygon were practically givens, so we're going to have to start there.

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Druddigon is considered a C-rank UU pokemon, and is the only remaining dragon in RU, so I decided to give him a shot too.

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From here, it got a bit more tricky. My first step was to try a preliminary wild card. Drawing from the relative success of the first week, I decided to give Qwilfish a shot.

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Not having much experience using NFEs, I was reluctant to give them much of a shot. I had to use one of them, so I used Fraxure, who seemed to have the highest stats, and Altaria, the last remaining fully evolved poke.

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Altaria is the largest pile of fluffy shit to ever enter the UU tier. Don't use it, ever. I got over my aversion to NFEs and decided to try out Zweilous. I also replaced Qwilfish with EndureSalac Hera because Qwilfish wasn't doing much, as I wasn't stally enough to be able to make spikes helpful, nor was I HO enough to make 2HKOs turn into OHKOs. More importantly, he didn't offer any resistances for my team, being utterly slaughtered by any special attack, even if he did resist it.

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Things were slightly better, but Fraxure still seemed awful and SalacCross wasn't fast enough or reliable enough to act as a pivotal member of the team that the wild card had to be. I exchanged Fraxure for a Rain Dance Dragonair to support Kingdra, to see if that would help my speed problem.

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Dragonair joined Altaria on the fluffy shit pile. I decided to heed relaunched's request (thanks, by the way), and run a defensively tanky Shelgon. It was the best 6th team member to date, so it has stayed on my team. Now that rain dance was off of my team, I decided to exchange SalacCross for a Scarf Darm.


This iteration of the team was the most successful thus far. Although 3-5 battles on the final alt ended up being with Cross instead of Darm, it is mostly the same and that didn't corrupt the data too much. This team surprised me with its relative mediocrity, as I was convinced initially that no matter what I tried, it would end up being as big of a fluffy pile of shit as Altaria and Dragonair.

Team Analysis
Teehee he said analNO.



( All images edited by yours truly ;) )

druddigon.jpg


RyujinSama - Druddigon @ Rocky Helmet
Rough Skin
Adamant Nature - 252 Atk/252 HP/4 SpD
- Glare
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail
- Sucker Punch

Druddigon really surprised me. I thought it would be more of fodder than anything, but it ended up being a really useful lead that is effective against a good portion of the metagame. For starters, it helps me deal with the most annoying physical threats by constantly whittling down their health with Rocky Helmet and Rough Skin. Steath Rock support is important for my team, and Glare has awesome synergy with Dragon Tail. On an average game, I can usually get up SR, paralyze at least two or three pokes and deal hefty damage with base 60 Phazing moves. I chose Sucker Punch over a stab like Outrage mostly because I already have a lot of strong Dragon move abusers, and I would need the priority far more than I would the extra power. It helps me better deal with certain threats and between sucker punch and RockySkin, I can usually severely weaken anything that is brought in to revenge Drudd. Even though this thing is RU, it's an awesome lead in the UU metagame, and you should all consider using it even if you aren't confined to stupid monotype rules ;). I was considering giving it MVP, but it unfortunately is more of an awesome team player than a really standout star.


shelgon.jpg


MewtwoHiddenElement - Shelgon @ Eviolite (Note that I combined two winners on the poll as 7 people voted and only 6 pokemon so math not workee :( )
Rock Head (Probably should be Overcoat tbh)
Impish Nature - 252 HP/252 Def/4 Atk
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
- Dragon Claw

Fabulous physical umbreon, reporting for duty. Seriously, though. This things defences are monstrous after eviolite and max investment, and it can take most of the physical hits needed to be sponged by this team. Just as a general idea of its awesomeness...

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 148-174 (44.31 - 52.09%) -- 12.89% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Machamp Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 88-104 (26.34 - 31.13%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 130-153 (38.92 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 59-69 (17.66 - 20.65%) -- possible 5HKO

Need I say more?

Although it does fall short when faring against special ice attacks, Shelgon is an awesome tank overall. It can Toxic some otherwise hard-to-kill threats, like bulky waters, and proceed to stall them out using Umbreon tactics. Protect and Wish are useful for healing, Toxic stalling, as well as passing some HP to other members of the party, although this is less common. Dragon Claw is really more filler than anything else, but it can do some decent damage to physically frail things like Roserade even without investment.

One of Shelgon's major drawbacks is that it is ridiculous set-up fodder for any steel type. Bisharp is this set's, and probably this whole team's worst enemy, as the only thing that can take its attacks on my team can't do anything else but dragon claw. Other than that though, it's sort of a beast.


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Pkn range6 - Zweilous @ Eviolite
Hustle
Adamant Nature - 248 HP/8 SpD/252 Atk
- Dragon Tail
- Outrage
- Crunch
- Substitute

I am pleasantly surprised by this set as well. Not only does it boast the second strongest outrage in the entire game, it also has decent utility with Substitute and Dragon Tail, as well as nice coverage. More importantly, its one of the most fun Chandy counters in the world ^.^'.

The damage that this thing can wreak on the enemy is awesome. In some matches, I can tank hits from 2-3 different pokes and OHKO them all with a ridiculously powerful outrage. Unfortunately, Zweilous' extreme power is a two-edged sword. Hustle makes it miss annoyingly whenever it needs the most to hit, e.g. hitting a crucial dragon tail on a +4/+4 poke. This unreliability makes it frustrating, but also very potentially rewarding to use. If only it got hone claws c.c'.

In all fairness though, this thing was only ever meant to be filler, and it has far more than exceeded my expectations in that regard. It's a very useful wallbreaker and stallbreaker, and can take some hits as well if necessary. Not MVP status, but definitely up there.


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Harbinger of Peace - Kingdra @ Life Orb
Swift Swim
Modest Nature - 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 SpD
- Surf
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam

Upon the creation of this team, I immediately expected Kingdra to be the MVP, if not the only thing on the entire fucking team that even worked. I was actually very surprised, as it ended up being useful, but by no means as central to the team as other components. Don't get me wrong, it's perfectly good, but I just feel like it isn't that great outside of Rain. In terms of analysis, its a fairly standard LO offense set. I chose Modest for maximum damage. Hydro and Draco are the standard kapow moves, and Ice Beam is for things like Roserade. I chose Surf over Dragon Pulse (Or HP Electric) because I preferred to have the 100% accurate reliable stab, and because I already had a lot of Dragon moves on the team.

It's possible that another variant of Kingdra would be better suited to my purposes, but I feel like this one just sort of stays in and dies. I started by running SpecsDra, but I didn't like the switches that it forced me to make. If you guys have any thoughts on this, I'd be glad to hear them.

Needless to say, not the MVP. However...


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(It's fucking pregnant, ok? I'm bad at art :(_ )

FastFlygon - Flygon @ Choice Band
Levitate
Jolly Nature - 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpD
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Outrage
- U-turn

I've always passed Flygon off as something of a meh poke. From everything I'd seen, the only niche it had over other physical attackers and dragons was its ability to use U-turn. Whenever I was on the receiving end of one of its attacks, it was almost always from the scarf variant, and the damage seemed pitiful. However, Banded Flygon has taken me absolutely by surprise as to how much I love it. The amount of damage it can wreak with Outrage and EQ is insane, and a banded U-turn isn't appreciated by anyone. Combined with Darmanitan, I have a very strong mini U-turning core that cover each others weaknesses relatively well.

I chose Superpower over Stone Edge because it seemed relatively more useful, and I also didn't like the prospect of an 80 accuracy move on a banded poke. (Hustle is plenty of rage-inducing misses for me, thank you very much.) Flygon is still insanely fast even without a scarf, outspeeding anything below a base 100 and easily tearing through weakened teams. My main win condition in most of my battles is a late game sweep by Flygon, but I don't just use it in the endgame. For most battles, I can severely weaken walls and sweepers using Flygon in the midgame so I can have an easier time sweeping afterwards. A lot of people don't expect band, so they end up losing some key pokes by surprise.

Overall, Flygon's very decent speed, insane power, and awesome coverage make him the absolute MVP of this team.

...shit


I forgot to draw the fucking crown.


(brb)


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I can hear you giggling, you know.


Stop that.

Anyway...

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My artwork keeps getting better and better.

DarkGiratina - Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
Sheer Force
Adamant Nature - 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpD
- Flare Blitz
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- U-turn

The second part of the mini U-turning core, Darmanitan is my solution to annoying scarfed pokes as well as things that are just plain faster than Flygon. He's an awesome offensive pivot and revenge killer, and is my secondary win condition for a late-game sweep. He usually doesn't last long, given his weakness to entry hazards and Flare Blitz's unfortunate tendency to hurt bad, but he's a very strong and useful poke while he's alive, and can demolish most of the tier. 95% of the time, I just mash Blitz/Turn, but Rock Slide and Earthquake both have their niches, or if I just don't want to take recoil on a Flare Blitz.

As a wild card, Darmanitan isn't exactly helpful in covering my weaknesses. Although he is neutrally defensive against Dragon moves and resistant against ice, he is far too frail to serve as a switch-in for them, although he can force ice types out.

I've considered running Jolly Nature to outspeed more things, but I'm not really sure if I need it. I'd be happy to hear what you guys have to say about it.


Final Notes/Analysis

I'm not going to go out there and say that this team is amazing. It certainly isn't a team I would ever consider adapting to the actual ladder, like my bug team was. That said, Dragon typing is a very limiting constraint, more so than any other typing, purely because it forced me to go outside of my comfort zone and jump into the depth of mediocre NFEs and NUs to create a semi-decent team. I'm happy that it turned out as "well" as it did, but it was demoralizing after coming off an 81-19 to not do as well. That said, I'm very glad that I got it over with so early, and it was mildly fun to do.

I'm perfectly open to the idea that this team is shit not because I had no choice, but because I am in fact a shit team-builder. As always, feel free to leave a comment down below to tell me what I could improve - this still is primarily an RMT challenge.

I'll put in an importable so some of you guys can try it out for yourselves if you're bored.

Importable:
FastFlygon (Flygon) @ Choice Band
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- U-turn
- Superpower

Harbinger of Peace (Kingdra) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Surf

RyujinSama (Druddigon) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Glare
- Stealth Rock
- Sucker Punch

MewtwoHiddenElement (Shelgon) @ Eviolite
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
- Dragon Claw

Pkn range6 (Zweilous) @ Eviolite
Trait: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Dragon Tail
- Outrage
- Substitute

Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Earthquake

A ShortThreat List

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Bisharp is a major problem for this team. Kingdra and Darmanitan can both wreck its face off on the switch in, but they get slaughtered by a +2 Sucker Punch. Zweilous and Shelgon can take a Sucker Punch, but can't do much in return. The SubSD set is especially hard to deal with.

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Cobalion is a problem for the same reason that not much can deal with it. Darmanitan is my best shot, but if it gets a sub up it can ruin my life with Stone Edge/CC. The same goes for other steels like Empoleon or Registeel, but they're generally slow enough to be Flygonable.


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I got swept by a Stockpile Stallrein once.
'nuff said.
Seriously though, it's in a replay. This picture sort of just represents my weakness to hail teams in general. Fortunately, they're fairly rare (especially lower on the ladder), but when I do come across them it's almost an instalose. Having 4 pokes weak to Ice just isn't healthy when you're up against scarfed Rotom-F or specs Glaceon. Shelgon and Zweilous are all but useless, Kingdra can't hit for shit, Flygon gets wrecked by everything, and Darmanitan dies to recoil before he can sweep.

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Opposing dragons are also very dangerous to this team, most notably Kingdra and Flygon. (Mostly because they're basically the only dragons ever used normally in UU. I account for most of the May stats for use of Altaria, Gabite, Zweilous, Dragonair, Fraxure, and Shelgon as far as I know ;)). When it's in the rain, Kingdra can be deadly to this team, outspeeding everything and being able to kill at least one thing with Draco Meteor. Generally the Outrage set is scarier than the special set, mostly because if Shelgon is weakened or dead I have nothing to really happily take one.
Flygon is also an immense problem to this team. Just about nothing can outspeed the scarfed variant, and the banded variant can wreck holes in my team. Unless I want to risk the speed tie, the only thing faster than it is Darmanitan, who can't really do anything other than U-turn out of there.



Finally, I'd like to show you a replay in which this team (most notably Shelgon the boss) performed exactly as it's meant to. Note that the nicknames weren't in at this point, sorry about that :3. (Sometimes I forgot, but at least you get forum recognition x)) Unfortunately, MVP Flygon doesn't get much love in that replay, but the NFEs do their job ;)
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-21083618


As always, thanks so much for all the support, feedback, and votes. The poll for Week 4 will be active for about a week, and you can expect to see the next RMT within 2-3. Drop a Luvdisc if you really must ;) <3

~Kitten Milk/+Pleasure Kitten <3
 
Intersting team once again Kitten, sorry you had to go through all that though...

I find Zweilous quite interesting, I'm tempted to try that out for myself. Defensive Shelgon is also a cool idea, never knew that evo line could even learn Wish.

I would think something like Cobalion would aid this team, being resistant to Dragon's weaknesses and an excellent counter to Bisharp (and Walrein to a degree since it can hit it super effectively)

Lets hope Poison wins out this time!
 
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 135-159 (40.41 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Thats bulky for ya.

So all I gotta say is staraptor for UU suspect testing (LOL)

Good team kitty just stay on guard for hail, especially hail stall (you know what I mean)

I give the team a 8/10 in the monotype team

Meow.
 
Physically defensive Shelgon is really interesting, I've only seem him as like a Rest Talk DD set, but those calcs are really impressive. Cool use of Zweilous, I've been using him a lot in UU both offensive and specially defensive. I think the accuracy issue really holds him back from being a staple but if you manage to land your attacks he can be a really useful check to a wide variety of pokes as well as an impressive wall breaker. I'm really surprised you didn't go with a steel type such as Registeel or Magneton (lol 5drag1mag) to cover your dragon/ice weaknesses.

Did you feel that having so many dragons allowed you to easily overwhlem counters? I imagine that in certain matchups you could just keep clicking Outrage on various things until the opponent had no more to take it.
 
The reason I strayed away from drag mag is that in UU, the pokes I'm using don't have the speed or the power to sweep through the entire team even when steels are gone. It would have been useful to have something like Registeel to sponge Outrages, but he just couldn't do much to the dragons once he was in. Having lots of dragons did help with the counters, and that's why Flygon ended up being my main win condition. Spamming Outrage on everything is actually viable once everything is weakened ^.^'

Yeah, Physically Defensive Shelgon surprised even me. It was slight set-up fodder, but it was so useful in some matches. I didn't feel like running a DD set because its offensive stats are just laughable.

Thanks for the rates though, you guys. It's always awesome to find hidden gems in the rough of meh monotypes, and its even better when you guys appreciate my sharing them :P
 
Once again I will rate your team, since it overcame a lot of disadvantages, mainly lack of synergy and lack of good Dragon-types.

As far as your Druddigon lead goes, it is by far my favorite variant, but I generally prefer using Druddigon to accumulate residual damage than to hit hard directly. Thus the EV spread I generally use is 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def with an Impish nature, but it's really up to you.

Also, most of your attackers are physical, and Darmanitan is extremely prone to recoil since its STAB move is Flare Blitz. I suggest a slightly different revenge killer:

Victini @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe or 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Nature: Hasty/Timid
-Blue Flare
-Grass Knot
-Psychic
-U-turn/Shadow Ball

Hello, it's special Scarf Victini! It is suggested over Darmanitan for its lack of recoil-inducing moves and greater unpredictability. It also gives you a much-needed special attacker. Blue Flare is your main STAB, ripping apart the Ice-types found on hail teams. If the move doesn't KO, the 30% burn rate is nice. Grass Knot is primarily for Swampert and Rhyperior. Psychic is a secondary STAB and lets you do heavy damage to Fighting-types. Finally, U-turn is used for scouting, and to create a VoltTurn core with Flygon. If you don't want that, Shadow Ball is a decent move to KO weakened Chandelure in case Zwelious gets burned or something (Cofagrigus, sigh......).

That's all I've got for your team. BTW I voted for Ice in your poll since you seemed to have so much trouble with Ice-types with this team. Hopefully Victini fixes that! :)
 
I know all too well what Special Scarf victini can do to a team. I ran up against it a couple of times during the Bug Monotype phase.... (death)

That would definitely be a really good option. It doesn't have quite the wallbreaking and stallbreaking capabilities that Darm's 140 base attack can lend, but it's still got a lot of power and speed, and the lack of recoil would definitely be a huge help. The strong special attacker would be welcome as well. I'll definitely give it a shot, thanks :)

Druddigon makes more sense defensively as well, I suppose, I just wanted sucker punch to be decently strong. You're probably right, although I might consider making it SpD as well, but that has weird synergy with Rocky Skin.
 
Just a quick reminder/bump that the poll closes in 1 day, so make sure to get your votes in before that. At the minute, Poison seems to be winning out. I've done a lot of prelim testing on it and it's been going pretty well :P
 
The reason I strayed away from drag mag is that in UU, the pokes I'm using don't have the speed or the power to sweep through the entire team even when steels are gone. It would have been useful to have something like Registeel to sponge Outrages, but he just couldn't do much to the dragons once he was in. Having lots of dragons did help with the counters, and that's why Flygon ended up being my main win condition. Spamming Outrage on everything is actually viable once everything is weakened ^.^'

Yeah, Physically Defensive Shelgon surprised even me. It was slight set-up fodder, but it was so useful in some matches. I didn't feel like running a DD set because its offensive stats are just laughable.

Thanks for the rates though, you guys. It's always awesome to find hidden gems in the rough of meh monotypes, and its even better when you guys appreciate my sharing them :P

I don't see why not Cobalion. It has Volt Switch for your turning core, it is 108 base speed, it tanks dragons, bisharp is 4x resisted and provides an attack boost to it. Cobalion is no Registeel.

Also your replay looked like you were playing against someone who has never played before... Why spam EQ to do 19% which is recovered when you have toxic? Why attack on an obvious Protect when you have DD? Why use DD when you are going to die from Toxic that turn anyway? Meh, bad example to show off the team.
 
The point of the replay was to show how certain pokemon in the team work, not to show how this team is so great that I'm able to handily beat people with 2.3k ranking. I realize that the guy wasn't a perfect player, and there are wins I got against people who were much better, but the overall idea of the replay was to show people how the NFEs are able to do their job against common threats (e.g. Zweilous OHKOing everything, Shelgon tanking a +2 Ice Punch, etc....). This team isn't supposed to be viable in high-level play, it's supposed to be able to perform fairly well on the standard ladder, where you do commonly run into people who do "stupid" things like "attack on an obvious Protect when you have DD". That said, I do realize that it doesn't exactly showcase my team's actual viability in the tier, so I will try and refrain from posting replays that are against people with a little bit less experience. (I don't think he really messed up THAT badly other than misplaying with Swampert though.)

In terms of Cobalion, I'd just have to scarf it to make it work on this team, which would be kind of awful. This team needs speed, and even with 108 Base Speed it won't be able to outspeed things like Scarf Hera, Scarf Chandy, Azelf, Crobat, Scarf Rotom-H, Froslass, etc etc, all of which can deal major damage to my team. Also, I already have quite a bit of Utility on the team, so other than Volt Switch, Cobalion wouldn't be filling much of an offensive role. Sure, Close Combat is good for dealing with steels, but it gives me less of counters for things like Bronzong. It also doesn't really help me "tank dragons", like you said. Kingdra rarely runs a choiced set, and its water attacks will hurt. Flygon's EQ makes Cobalion not really a counter either. It'll be pretty obvious to an opponent if I have 5 dragons and a Cobalion that I'm not going to stay in on an Outrage, so it would just put even more pressure on my team.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Coba would have been a bad wild card. It just opens me up to a lot of holes that I don't want to be opened up to purely by not being that fast. The reason that I chose a strong offensive poke as a wild card rather than something that can tank ice and dragon attacks is that it would put way too much stress on that one poke (in this case Cobalion), and it can't withstand the repeated onslaught of things like scarfers without getting worn down and leaving me in a bigger bind.
 
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