OU Vaporeon

[thedeafelectrician]

Overview
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With very few viable users of Wish in OU, Vaporeon has carved itself a niche as one of the best. A massive base 130 HP stat allows Vaporeon to pass Wishes of 232 HP, restoring a massive chunk of any Pokemon's health, and a base 110 Special Attack stat allows it to have much more offensive presence than other users of the move. Vaporeon's mono Water typing is solid defensively, with four resistances only two weaknesses. Water Absorb turns one of those resistances into an immunity and makes Vaporeon a great check to Water-types, allowing it to switch into Pokemon such as Greninja relatively safely. Water Absorb is also especially useful in discouraging the use of Scald, which is otherwise one of the safest moves in the game.

However, not all changes are good, and the new weather mechanics have made Hydration stalling effectively useless. The popularity of Pokemon such as Thundurus and Mega Venusaur can make life hard on Vaporeon, and it can become setup bait for sweepers if it does not run Roar or Toxic. Vaporeon is not a Pokemon that can simply be thrown onto a team and be expected to wall everything, but can do its job very well with proper support.

Wish Support
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name: Wish Support
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect
move 3: Scald
move 4: Roar / Toxic / Heal Bell
ability: Water Absorb
item: Leftovers
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
nature: Bold

Moves
========

Wish heals either 50% of Vaporeon's health or 232 points of a teammate's HP. Protect ensures that Vaporeon will be healed by its own Wish and can be used to scout opponent's moves. Scald has an incredibly useful 30% chance to burn the opponent and hits decently hard off of Vaporeon's base 110 Special Attack. Roar allows Vaporeon to phaze out potential counters or setup sweepers and chip away at the opponent's health with hazard support. Toxic allows Vaporeon to cripple most walls and cause reliable damage on things it may otherwise not be able to hurt. Heal Bell can be used to provide cleric support while rendering Toxic harmless, but it also makes Vaporeon extreme setup bait if your opponent notices it lacks both Toxic and Roar. Ice Beam provides good coverage with Scald, but isn't particularly powerful without investment and can struggle to deal damage even to Pokemon that are weak to it, such as Tangrowth. Haze allows Vaporeon to act an as emergency check to setup sweepers immune to Roar and is nearly unblockable, but has a tough time finding an open moveslot.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP investment allows Vaporeon to pass the largest Wishes possible, and a Bold nature with maximum Defense is used take hits from physical attackers, complementing Vaporeon's naturally high special bulk. With maximum Defense investment, Vaporeon can comfortably take hits from support Landorus-T and Scizor while threatening back with Scald. Leftovers is an obvious choice for a defensive Pokemon, as it grants Vaporeon a source of passive recovery and allows it to stall more efficiently with Protect.

Usage Tips
========

Vaporeon attracts Toxic like a magnet, so avoiding it through Protect or switching will go a long way in increasing Vaporeon's survivability. The use of repeated Wishes puts your opponent in a situation where they will start trying to predict your passes; pay attention to how your opponent responds after a Wish, because you don't want a Pokemon to faint due to a correct opposing prediction. Before Vaporeon needs to pass Wishes, Scald is the move of choice, as it is able to do decent damage and potentially burn anything that comes in. If Vaporeon is using Toxic, determine whether Toxic poison or Burn status would be more detrimental to your opponent's team; this can be loosely determined in the Team Preview. If Vaporeon is running Roar, it's important to keep it healthy, as it has to take a hit in order to Roar an opposing Pokemon out.

Team Options
========

Mega Venusaur resists both of Vaporeon's weaknesses, is immune to Toxic, and greatly appreciates the healing Wish provides since it cannot hold Leftovers. Ferrothorn and Heatran complete an excellent Water / Fire / Grass core, covering for each other's weaknesses and spreading hazards and status. Skarmory is capable of taking most physical attacks aimed at Vaporeon and can lay down hazards or phaze opponents. Support Landorus-T functions similarly with Stealth Rock and can use U-turn to maintain momentum. Excadrill can switch in on predicted Electric-type attacks aimed at Vaporeon and proceed to Rapid Spin any hazards away. Goodra is capable of easily sponging Grass-type and Electric-type special moves, but fears Toxic just as much as Vaporeon does.

Other Options
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Hidden Power Fire can be used to beat Ferrothorn, but has almost no use outside of that. Similarly, Hidden Power Grass helps Vaporeon combat Gastrodon and Quagsire, though both are vulnerable to Toxic anyway, and 4 SpA Vaporeon can only 2HKO these targets, meaning it will likely be hit with Toxic in return. Surf can be used over Scald for the slight power boost, but Vaporeon needs the burn chance much more than the power.

Checks & Counters
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**Status immune/resistant Pokemon**: Pokemon with high Special Defense and Natural Cure such as Blissey and Chansey leave Vaporeon unable to do anything and threaten with Toxic. Celebi also falls into this category and can either setup Leech Seed or Giga Drain to recover any health lost. Pokemon with Magic Guard render Vaporeon's Scald burns and Toxic poison attempts useless, and Reuniclus in particular can set up Calm Mind boosts in Vaporeon's face while only being threatened by Roar at the worst. Clefable functions in a similar way and can use boosted Moonblasts to break through Vaporeon after a couple of boosts.

** Bulky Grass-types**: Vaporeon absolutely hates Leech Seed, as its large health total becomes a liability and allows opponents to regain large chunks of HP at once. Ferrothorn is one of the best Vaporeon switch-ins the game, capable of setting up hazards in its face or hitting Vaporeon with the aforementioned Leech Seed. Mega Venusaur is immune to Toxic, only slightly cares about burns, and can hit Vaporeon with either Leech Seed or Giga Drain to recover HP in addition to doing heavy damage. Poison Heal Breloom is only afraid of the uncommon Ice Beam, while Technician Breloom can easily OHKO with Bullet Seed as long as it avoids a burn from Scald

**Electric-types**: Most Electric-types are frail special attackers and don't particularly care about burn or Toxic. Life Orb Thundurus is strong enough to have a 75% chance to OHKO Vaporeon with Thunderbolt after Stealth Rock damage. While Rotom-W does not do a lot of damage with Volt Switch, it can Toxic Vaporeon or use Volt Switch to gain momentum while taking a pittance from any of Vaporeon's moves. Zapdos also cleanly 2HKOes Vaporeon while the Vaporeon can only manage to Toxic Zapdos in return.

**Set-Up Sweepers**: Espeon can set up Calm Mind in front of Vaporeon and cannot be phazed out due to Magic Bounce. If Vaporeon does not run Roar, then Substitute setup sweepers become a massive problem, especially ones that resist Water-type attacks such as Kyurem-B and Gyarados. Lum Berry Haxorus can Dragon Dance against Vaporeon and then 2HKO with Dragon Claw if Vaporeon has any prior damage while also having insurance against a burn. Nasty Plot Celebi can tank even super effective Ice Beams easily, Giga Drain to recover huge chunks of its health, and Baton Pass to pass on any boosts it may accumulate.

 

[thedeafelectrician]

Any Hydration-using tank set is completely outclassed by Manaphy while it is in OU, so that's not included.

 

[Colonel M]

I would not even bother mentioning a Hydration set whatsoever.

Also for Vaporeon, I would recommend Toxic before Roar. Toxic is necessary for Vaporeon to fuck around with switch-ins even more. Rotom-W can handle burns, but Toxic is definitely harmful for it.

 

[Fuzznip]

Yeah Hydration Vaporeon isn't good anymore, so I'd remove that. Its Wish set is miles better.

 

[thedeafelectrician]

Both changes made!

 

[Cinsesso]

I don't know if you should mention the weather nerf to hydration stall since you don't have it as a set. Also, say that both of its sets are team dependent, not two out of three.

 

[thedeafelectrician]

Thanks for noticing the second one.

I do feel that it's important to mention the weather nerf in the overview because Hydration stall was one of its most effective sets last gen, and a quick mention of why it's no longer viable is warranted.

 

[Fuzznip]

Overview

You should mention its Water Absorb ability, making it a really good Water-type check.

For point 4, I think you mean Vaporoen can inflict status on almost every Pokemon. It's kind of awkwardly phrased.

The second last point, remove Calm Mind and simply state that Vaporeon is setup bait for many Pokemon, such as Substitute Gyarados and Calm Mind Reuniclus.

Moves for set 1
Just say that Scald has a 30% burn chance, no need for the "50% to burn" thing.

Toxic isn't just for bulky Waters. It's for almost anything that isn't particularly Scald/burn weak.

Replace "passive damage" with "residual damage" when talking about Roar.

Set Details for set 1
Defense is maximized to take hits on the physical side. Even though Vaporeon has a decent base 95 SpD, its not invested in, so Vaporeon isn't much of a mixed wall. Mention the kind of Pokemon Vaporeon can take on, too.

Just say that Leftovers works well in tandem with Protect stalling. No need for the restoing 1/8th part.

Usage Tips for set 1

Assuming you're using Roar, mention that Vaporeon can be brought in against Dragonite and Scizor for example to ensure that they won't DD/SD sweep you.

Team Options for set 1

Mention Excadrill/Landorus-T instead of Donphan. Donphan is bad.

Remove:

"Ground types that can switch into choice-locked Volt Switches, Landorus-T can then set up Stealth Rock to aid Vaporeon"

Moves for set 2

Don't say "crux of the set," that kind of terminology is something we're trying to get rid of.

When you say this:

"Roar can prevent Vaporeon from being phazed out, and can be especially useful if Vaporeon has been passed speed boosts."

Mention that it's useful if Vaporeon has Speed boosts because then its Roar goes before opposing phazers. Some people don't know that.

Team Options for set 2

Remove:

"- Smeargle can pass Shell Smash to make Vaporeon much faster and make Scald significantly stronger."

That's a terrible idea. It will make Vaporeon easier to kill. Mention that Smeargle passes Ingrain.

Other Options

Remove:

"- Vaporeon does not have many other useful options."

You don't need to say this.

Checks & Counters

Mention Substitute users to bypass Toxic, such as Gyarados and Kyurem-B. Vaporeon can't break their Subs and is thus walled unless it uses Roar.

Mention Celebi along with Mega Venusaur. It pretty much walls Vaporeon and can use Perish Song to stop BP chains.

I think that's good for me.

QC APPROVED 1/3

 

[thedeafelectrician]

All changes implemented. Was gonna put some simple calcs for pokemon Vaporeon could switch into but the damage calc site is down right now so I'll try again later.

 

[CyclicCompound]

Keep in mind I'm not QC, but I would put Aqua Ring in the set details of the Baton Pass set rather than in OO, or even as a slash. While every BP team has different needs, some simply don't need Acid Armor on Vaporeon due to the fact that Mega Scizor, Mega Mawile, and Scolipede all possess Iron Defense. And even though Vaporeon can BP the biggest Wish, once a significant amount of boosts has been collected, Aqua Ring is far more useful and consistent than Wish support.

 

[Alter]

Hi.

Adding on to what CyclicCompound has mentioned, you should consider slashing Roar before Scald on Vaporeon's Baton Pass set. One of the greatest combinations available to Baton Pass is Mr. Mime's Encore and Vaporeon's Roar, which together makes dealing with setup sweepers drastically easier. Even though Scald's burn chance is helpful at times, Vaporeon doesn't have to worry about being Taunted as it can Baton Pass out to Espeon to reflect it first.

- This set is only useful on a dedicated Baton Pass team.
- Vaporeon is much more effective after being passed Ingrain, as it has no way of preventing the opponent from phazing it.

These two points conflict greatly. If running a dedicated Baton Pass team, one will have Mr. Mime to be immune to Roar & Dragon Tail as well as Espeon to reflect Roar / Whirlwind. Ingrain isn't extremely common on Baton Pass teams and to say that it is mandatory isn't necessarily correct. On top of this, I'd make mention of the fact that (in the usage tips) you need to outline the importance of having a Substitute up whenever possible. Substitute is a very important component of dedicated Baton Pass teams which allows them to avoid status, Leech Seed, etc.

 

[PK Gaming]

That overview is way too big. You can cut it down to maybe 40-50% of its current size.

- Scald allows it to burn potential counters with a bit of luck.
- Between Scald and Toxic, Vaporeon can inflict status on nearly every Pokemon in the game.

These 2 sentences are totally redundant. Take out the first one. I'd mention that its access to status and wish makes it's tricky to switch into and check (the only Pokemon that really hard counter it are bulky grass-types)

- Vulnerable to all entry hazards.

Not really a con worth pointing out.

Really struggles against Volt-Turn teams.

I'd argue that it doesn't, considering it has access to Wish and Protect.

Lacks offensive presence outside of rain.

It doesn't need offensive presence, it's a defensive/support Pokemon.

Without Roar, Vaporeon can be set-up bait for many Pokemon, such as Substitute Gyarados and Calm Mind Reuniclus.

You can mention this in the MOVES section.

- Rather predictable in what it does.

I hate this con. Virtually every defensive Pokemon in the game is "predictable." It's not a valid con; Vaporeon does one job and one job only. The fact that it's predictable is irrelevant.

Also, Vaporeon is bulky enough to survive one hit from set-up Pokemon such Swords Dance Scizor or Dragon Dance Dragonite and Roar them away.

This isn't really a usage tip, but a tidbit. Perhaps you can say that Vaporeon needs to stay at a healthy range in order to check some of these set up Pokemon.

Checks & Counters
Where are the electric-types?? You need to mention Thundurus and Rotom as potential checks.

 

[thedeafelectrician]

Thanks for the BP set help especially guys. I don't have the most experience in the world with BP teams and it was awkward to test because any time I got remotely set up everybody would just forfeit, I really appreciate it.

And thank you for the clean up help PK, I have no idea how I overlooked electric types as a counter.

 

[Jukain]

I'm not really a big fan of Wish on the Baton Pass set.

Baton Pass chains aren't really benefited enough by a Wish Vaporeon to even consider running it. That benefit is either Acid Armor or Aqua Ring. With Wish, it's hard to justify even running Vaporeon when I could run something else -- there are plenty of things I can run that benefit my team more than a Pokemon with Substitute and Wish. Aqua Ring is also just better than Wish...with the Defense boosts you're bound to have thanks to your Scizor/Mawile as well as the Substitute, you're going to prefer just setting up because nothing is gonna be easily be breaking through. You'll get more out of the passive healing throughout the game than a one-time Wish pass that requires going back and going back to Vaporeon. I've used a good bit of BP, and even tried Wish Vaporeon -- I entirely regretted it. It's not worth giving up on Acid Armor/Aqua Ring.

 

[6feetunder]

evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe

why 8 speed

 

[Jukain]

it's filler, but it should probably be special defense because speed creep + analyses = big no

 

[thedeafelectrician]

Yeah idk what I was thinking there.

School plus 35 hour work weeks have been insane, glad this didn't get too crazy while I was gone.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

As someone who has tested the Baton Pass set fairly extensively, I think the slashes are all wrong at the moment. Scald should be the first slash in slot three, as it gives BP teams a backup offensive option with its solid coverage, and lets Baton Pass teams defeat the Dark-types that Espeon abhors, like Bisharp and Tyranitar, more easily. Roar should be slashed first in slot four, as it provides for those teams a method of eliminating opposing set-up sweepers that have attempted to boost alongside something on your team. Acid Armor could feasibly find a spot in either slot three, if that particular BP team would prefer the ability to pass defense boosts to the coverage that Scald provides, or four, if there's already a pHazer, like Zapdos, elsewhere on the team. The need for the move has declined since last gen, as two new BP staples, Mega Scizor and Scolipede, do a stellar job at passing Iron Defense. Additionally, I do not think Wish and Aqua Ring are necessary on the main set, as residual damage is drastically lower than it was last gen, with Sandstorm being temporary and Spikes no longer being omnipresent.

In summary, I'd like the set to look like this:

move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Scald / Acid Armor
move 4: Roar / Acid Armor

Moves Section: Wish, Aqua Ring

P.S. Special Defense = SpD on Smogon analyses.

 

[Blapperl]

One of the stronger vaporeon set that lacks here right now is the following:

name: Slow Wish-BatonPas
item: Leftovers
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect
move 3: Baton Pass
move 4: Heal Bell / Scald
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp Def / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Speed IVs
Nature: + SpDef / - Speed


Moves:
Wish for obvious reasons. The problem with wish is that often enough the recipient can not come in because it is threatened by whatever the opponent has on the field. If the opponent play aggressive to not let you get any free wishes, your options in what you can heal are limited. Especially frail hard hitters are very hard to heal. This can be dealt with by just using a slow (-speed nature, no iv's) Baton Pass after a wish. This way, Vaporeon will sponge the hits, while the recipient comes in for free. Using this strategy, no Pokemon on your team will truly be lost, as long as vaporeon gets free turns, which it will due to its special bulk (in OU this requires more predictions and double switches).
Protect is there to ensure Vaporeon stays on the field long enough, being able to heal itself more reliable.
Scald can be used to not be Tauntbait, also to fish for burns and help Vaporeon handle physical attackers which it is weak to. Heal Bell, if you are not afraid of ending up as set up fodder for some things, helps making vap the ultimate cleric, bringin back mates who are status and extremely low on health back to full.
If there is nothing to heal up or your opponent has something that immediately threatens vap out but needs to be switched in first, just baton pass on the switch to get advantage.


Team Options:
This set is on,ly worth it if you are trying to heal frailer hard hitters, especially those wo rely on recoil moves and are rock weak. In UU, LO Darmanitan and Banded Staraptor are near unwallable, their sweeping potential only hindered by them taking a lot of passive damage. Using a Vaporeon and a defensive team that tries to eliminiate checks to your hard hitters, you will notice how many more safe switch ins you will get, meaning that you can focus more on building a solid defensive core while hitting just as hard as you would with a higher amount offensive team members.


Weaknesses:

Vaporeons physical side is weak, and also it can become set up fodder. This is a set tested in uu to great success, where it gets a lot of free turns. in ou it will need more correct predictions to do so.

 

[CyclicCompound]

snip

I'm not QC, and not that I think that set is bad, but most of what Vaporeon's doing in that role is better done by Healing Wish Latias.

I know you spoke about UU, but in OU, many Pokemon are extremely hard-hitting, and given the opportunity, they WILL take a heavy chunk out of Vaporeon's health. That combined with entry hazards and other sources of chip damage will easily wear Vaporeon down, to the point where it can only really reliably pull of this strategy once, if at all. Furthermore, your set is too easily set up on—even if you manage to heal one of the "frailer hard hitters" that you mentioned, it's still too easy for the opponent to get a sub up or boost or something and destroy your frail Wish recipient.

With that in mind, Healing Wish Latias basically does all of what your Vaporeon set does, only better. With additional access to Defog and highly usable attacking stats, you're hard-pressed to make an argument to use Vaporeon over Latias in this case. So I think a dedicated WishPassing set belongs in OO. As it is, the standard set can pass wishes with a decent level of prediction most of the time.

 

[thedeafelectrician]

Changes

Implemented all of this.

Things

Based on things you're saying are unwallable, you must have tested that in Gen V UU, and early indications are that Gen VI UU will look completely different than that. In OU right now, frail fast hitters aren't really a thing with bulky offense ruling the metagame and priority being absolutely everywhere. And like it was said, healing wish really accomplishes what that set is trying to do much more effectively.

 

[Jukain]

mention speed passers in bp team options. scolipede, gliscor. you get a lot easier setup with them, and all bp teams tend to lead off with one.

- Water Absorb allows Vaporeon to be a solid check to opposing Water-types.

Vaporeon resists Water and is bulky, so this isn't a big deal. However, the immunity to Scald preventing burn is definitely a big deal. The healing also puts it in a better spot upon switching in. To clarify: Water Absorb is not why Vaporeon handles Water-types so well, but it helps offset SR damage and prevents Scald burn, making it beneficial to Vaporeon.

Move Haze to OO. Roar is infinitely better except against BP chains...it entirely forces the foe out instead of just resetting their boosts, which they can set up again until Vaporeon is killed. OO it for BP teams, but Roar is almost always better.

qc 2/3

 

[Blapperl]

Tested in 6th gen UU. Obviously this will not work too well in OU, but in UU at least it is relatively easy to keep hazards at bay. It takes caution to not be set up on, but being set up bait is a problem for most walls outside and even in Ou. Banded Staraptor + Banded Vicitini can not be walled by 90% of the teams around right now and basially get a free kill most of the time they get in. Posted it here because there seems to be no UU forum atm.
Healing Wish Latias, being in uu also, is not a comparison, as it can only do this once and has arguably the worse typing. Vaporeon getting a lot more opportunities than just one to heal up, especially in late game or when the opponent plays less offensive. Being able to punish stall is always a good trait for a team.
The opponent subbing on the switch is also less of a problem due to subbing being nerfed this gen thus lesser used. In OU, as there are Mega Lke and Talonflame, a Whimsicott with Encore iwll be of no help against setups, but UU knows no faster priority than Prankster Whimsicott, bar extremespeed. Knowing whether the opponent attacks or not by BPing after him, you can safely bring in the right pokemon.

 

[mrglass]

I think Vaporeon's sun team set should also be included here. Something along the lines of this:

name: Sun Cleric
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect
move 3: Heal Bell
move 4: Ice Beam
ability: Water Absorb
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold/ Calm
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

 

[thedeafelectrician]

Made those changes, I'll try and have the write up up by Friday.

Ubers not withstanding, the tiers go in descending order, so OU first, etc, so UU analysis will come eventually.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that sun teams are basically limited to hyper offense because of the weather changes, and the best sun setter in char-y can't hold a heat rock to lengthen the sun. That vape set completely stops your momentum, which you can't afford when the center of your strategy is essentially on a 5-turn limit.