Introduction
This is my sun team, which I use pretty successfully competitively. I've only played competitive since late gen 4, about the time the Salamence ban was still being discussed. This is also my first RMT.
Team at a Glance
Overview
Overview
I've always liked chlorophyll pokes, so I was naturally drawn to making a sun team this gen. I knew going into using this team that it would be an uphill battle. Most people would say rain and sand are easier to use, and with my lack of experience, I still chose to go with a sun team. This team has gone through a lot of trial and error, only retaining 2 of it's original members. (Ninetales and Venusaur) This team is now built around the sweeping core of Venusaur and Salamence. Those two cover each other pretty well, save for ice attacks. Ninetales provides the sun and some offense. Infernape, Scizor, and Donphan make up the supporting cast. I feel that I've finally reached a point with this team where it's solid, bringing me some good competitive success. Still, I'd love to see what the community thinks.
Team Building Process
Well, every sun team starts with a Nintetales. When I was new to this gen and this team was new, the next pokes were almost completely fire types and chlorophyll users. Completely not the case now. Speaking of the next pokes...
Ah, the only other original member of the team that is still here! While my experiences with this team early stages quickly made me stray away from abusing chlorophyll, (team gets shut down if the weather isn't going its' way) Venusaur is still a solid choice and is definitely the next pick for this team.
My next step was to add a poke that doesn't rely on the sun, but can benefit from it. Darmanitan was the original choice, which I ran before. However, he ran a choice scarf, which limited his otherwise versatile movepool. Without the scarf, he simply wasn't fast enough to keep up with a lot of the metagame. Also, he was too easily walled by physically defensive pokemon not named Skarmory or Ferrothorn. Luckily, I quickly came up with something that could solve those problems.
Infernape was able to do exactly what I intended to do with Darmanitan, but better. He's fast enough to not need the scarf to succeed. Access to STAB Close Combat has also been great. Add to that the fact that the monkey can run mixed sets that prevent it from being walled physically by some of the common threats.
Heatran and Jumpluff. Yep, they used to be here. Heatran was a nice choice because it benefited from the sun, checked dragons, and had flash fire to take advantage of fire attacks aimed at my grass types. I really did have some fun success using Jumpluff. Chlorophyll + SubSeeding induced quite a few ragequits. Still, this team wasn't able to succeed at the highest level. Heatran gave me 3 fire pokes, which brings a lot of common weaknesses. Jumpluff was fun, but it's usefulness is largely situational. When it came down to which fire poke to drop, I chose Heatran due to Infernape's superior offensive contribution to the team. I can add another steel. Also, flash fire wasn't as handy as I thought it would be. There were just better options than Jumpluff to solidify the team.
This was a nice change in the right direction. Latias gave this team some good specially-defensive structure, as well as a secondary sweeping option if she got off enough calm minds. Her HP Fire also was great if the sun was up. Scizor was my new steel type of choice to pose a threat to dragons, as well as give me access to great priority and pursuit.
With the name of the team being VenuMence, you may be wondering when Salamence came into the picture. It was later in the team building process. Since then, the team has found a lot more success. Latias was great, but simply took too long to set up and was too easily taken out by stuff like Tyranitar. I wanted something that could be a great secondary sweeping option, especially for situations where the weather battle wasn't in my favor. Moxie Salamence was recommended to me, and I saw the light pretty quickly. It's also got a nice fire attack, which benefits from the sun.
The 6th team slot tends to be the hardest to choose sometimes. But it was pretty obvious to me that my team could still use two things. Those things would be support and physical defense. The two pokes that came to mind there were Swampert and Donphan. I went with Donphan for a few reasons. I didn't want another x4 weakness on the team. Also, this is a sun team, so Swampert would have to stick to Ground and Ice attacks. Then lastly, Donphan has access to Rapid Spin. That about solidified the team.
In-Depth Analysis
Well, every sun team starts with a Nintetales. When I was new to this gen and this team was new, the next pokes were almost completely fire types and chlorophyll users. Completely not the case now. Speaking of the next pokes...
Ah, the only other original member of the team that is still here! While my experiences with this team early stages quickly made me stray away from abusing chlorophyll, (team gets shut down if the weather isn't going its' way) Venusaur is still a solid choice and is definitely the next pick for this team.
My next step was to add a poke that doesn't rely on the sun, but can benefit from it. Darmanitan was the original choice, which I ran before. However, he ran a choice scarf, which limited his otherwise versatile movepool. Without the scarf, he simply wasn't fast enough to keep up with a lot of the metagame. Also, he was too easily walled by physically defensive pokemon not named Skarmory or Ferrothorn. Luckily, I quickly came up with something that could solve those problems.
Infernape was able to do exactly what I intended to do with Darmanitan, but better. He's fast enough to not need the scarf to succeed. Access to STAB Close Combat has also been great. Add to that the fact that the monkey can run mixed sets that prevent it from being walled physically by some of the common threats.
Heatran and Jumpluff. Yep, they used to be here. Heatran was a nice choice because it benefited from the sun, checked dragons, and had flash fire to take advantage of fire attacks aimed at my grass types. I really did have some fun success using Jumpluff. Chlorophyll + SubSeeding induced quite a few ragequits. Still, this team wasn't able to succeed at the highest level. Heatran gave me 3 fire pokes, which brings a lot of common weaknesses. Jumpluff was fun, but it's usefulness is largely situational. When it came down to which fire poke to drop, I chose Heatran due to Infernape's superior offensive contribution to the team. I can add another steel. Also, flash fire wasn't as handy as I thought it would be. There were just better options than Jumpluff to solidify the team.
This was a nice change in the right direction. Latias gave this team some good specially-defensive structure, as well as a secondary sweeping option if she got off enough calm minds. Her HP Fire also was great if the sun was up. Scizor was my new steel type of choice to pose a threat to dragons, as well as give me access to great priority and pursuit.
With the name of the team being VenuMence, you may be wondering when Salamence came into the picture. It was later in the team building process. Since then, the team has found a lot more success. Latias was great, but simply took too long to set up and was too easily taken out by stuff like Tyranitar. I wanted something that could be a great secondary sweeping option, especially for situations where the weather battle wasn't in my favor. Moxie Salamence was recommended to me, and I saw the light pretty quickly. It's also got a nice fire attack, which benefits from the sun.
The 6th team slot tends to be the hardest to choose sometimes. But it was pretty obvious to me that my team could still use two things. Those things would be support and physical defense. The two pokes that came to mind there were Swampert and Donphan. I went with Donphan for a few reasons. I didn't want another x4 weakness on the team. Also, this is a sun team, so Swampert would have to stick to Ground and Ice attacks. Then lastly, Donphan has access to Rapid Spin. That about solidified the team.
In-Depth Analysis
Ninetales (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Drought (What else?)
EVs: 28HP/252SpA/228Spe
Timid (+Spe/-Atk)
It wouldn't be a sun team without Ninetales. I've taken a pretty offensive approach with this one. While Tales' main mission is to get the sun up, it's offense is a very valuable part of this team. Nasty Plot can really set Ninetales up to punch some holes in the other team. Flamethrower is nice, accurate STAB. I'm running it over Fire Blast because I've had some game-changing misses with the latter. It should be pretty obvious why the last two moves are there. They deal with the other main weather inducers, which are some of the biggest problems for a sun team. The coverage isn't bad, either. With a Nasty Plot boost, Energy Ball and HP Fighting OHKO Politoed and Tyranitar (respectively) after SR damage, with the exception being the most specially defensive versions. Seeing a Nasty Plot on a switch may be a dead ringer that Ninetales has something up it's sleeve, but it has still proven to be pretty successful.
Venusaur (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 184HP/252SpA/72Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Ability: Chlorophyll
I've already said I love chlorophyll pokes, and this one is an obvious choice. This Venusaur has more HP EVs than most, and also sports black sludge over life orb. This gives it a sense of longevity, which is great if Venusaur ends up with a chance to come in earlier in the game than normal. Sludge Bomb over EQ has been catching on a lot lately, and I'm on board. EQ would help against Heatran and Blissey/Chansey, but that gives it awful coverage against dragons. The aforementioned pokes are covered pretty well by the other members of the team. If they're taken care of and the weather is taken care of, Venusaur is serious business.
Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
Hasty (+Spe/-Def)
Infernape is a great teammate that benefits from the sun, but does not rely on it. This one is a familiar MixApe. This guy has great coverage and is very versatile. Overheat OHKOs plenty of stuff and will put a nice dent into everything else. It's also a nice surprise for physical walls that come in after seeing Infernape throw out a physical attack. CC is arguably the best power 120 move in the game, and is especially great on Infernape, considering it's drawback is it's lowering of Infernape's already low defenses. Priority is pretty essential, so Mach Punch makes an appearance here. U-turn is for scouting and smacking stuff like Cresselia/Reuniclus on the way out as I bring in a better check.
Salamence (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 148HP/184Atk/176Spe
Naive (+Spe/-SpD)
Salamance brings some more power and offensive structure. I also tend to like to have a secondary sweeping option on a team, and MoxieMence fills that role quite well. DD can set him up to take a nice hunk out of the opposing team. The additional attack boosts from Moxie get him to the point where he OHKOs just about everything. Even if the situation isn't ideal for DD, he can come in and revenge kill something, which will get him a nice Moxie boost. Status can ruin a Salamence sweep, so Lum Berry can be a game-changing item. Physical walls like Skarmory take a nice surprise from Fire Blast, which also benefits from the sun. Outrage isn't usable with Moxie, and being locked into it is a situation I probably wouldn't want to be in with a secondary sweeper anyway. So, Dragon Claw it is. His main problems are SR, Ice Shard, and Bullet Punch. All of those can be taken care of by the rest of the team. Knowing when and when not to bring Salamence in has been pretty key for it's success.
Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248HP/252Atk/8Spe
Adamant (+Atk/-Spa)
At first, Scizor on a sun team might seem like a bad idea. But lets be real, pretty much any fire attack that Scizor takes OHKOs it anyway. CB Scizor is typically seen as serving as the "glue" to many teams. This is no exception. I did something a little different with the EVs here, taking a few from HP and putting them in Speed. That way, my CB Scizor is faster than your CB Scizor. That way if we end up in a Scizor face off, I'll have the edge. With Scizor re-claiming the #1 spot in terms of usage, that situation can definitely come up. There are 3 priority moves on this team, and Scizor's Bullet Punch is some of the best priority a team can have. The rest of the arsenal is standard Scizor fare. Pursuit has been incredibly valuable since adding this guy.
Donphan (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252HP/252Atk/4Def
Adamant (+Atk/-SpA)
Even with a support poke, I tend to have an offensive mindset. That is the case here with Donphan if you take a look at it's EVs. With two of the best spinners (Starmie and Tentacruel) being a little impractical under the sun, Donphan is an ideal fit for this team. Even with it's EVs leaning in the offensive direction, Donphan is still physically pretty tough, adding some physically defensive structure. This sun team isn't as weak to SR as some sun teams are, but spinning away entry hazards is still a nice thing to be able to do. Getting up my own SR is always helpful. Earthquake for a nice, hard STAB hit and Ice Shard for some nice priority, especially against the dragons.
Ability: Drought (What else?)
EVs: 28HP/252SpA/228Spe
Timid (+Spe/-Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Flamethrower
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power Fighting
It wouldn't be a sun team without Ninetales. I've taken a pretty offensive approach with this one. While Tales' main mission is to get the sun up, it's offense is a very valuable part of this team. Nasty Plot can really set Ninetales up to punch some holes in the other team. Flamethrower is nice, accurate STAB. I'm running it over Fire Blast because I've had some game-changing misses with the latter. It should be pretty obvious why the last two moves are there. They deal with the other main weather inducers, which are some of the biggest problems for a sun team. The coverage isn't bad, either. With a Nasty Plot boost, Energy Ball and HP Fighting OHKO Politoed and Tyranitar (respectively) after SR damage, with the exception being the most specially defensive versions. Seeing a Nasty Plot on a switch may be a dead ringer that Ninetales has something up it's sleeve, but it has still proven to be pretty successful.
Venusaur (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 184HP/252SpA/72Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Ability: Chlorophyll
- Growth
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power Fire
- Sludge Bomb
I've already said I love chlorophyll pokes, and this one is an obvious choice. This Venusaur has more HP EVs than most, and also sports black sludge over life orb. This gives it a sense of longevity, which is great if Venusaur ends up with a chance to come in earlier in the game than normal. Sludge Bomb over EQ has been catching on a lot lately, and I'm on board. EQ would help against Heatran and Blissey/Chansey, but that gives it awful coverage against dragons. The aforementioned pokes are covered pretty well by the other members of the team. If they're taken care of and the weather is taken care of, Venusaur is serious business.
Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
Hasty (+Spe/-Def)
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- U-turn
Infernape is a great teammate that benefits from the sun, but does not rely on it. This one is a familiar MixApe. This guy has great coverage and is very versatile. Overheat OHKOs plenty of stuff and will put a nice dent into everything else. It's also a nice surprise for physical walls that come in after seeing Infernape throw out a physical attack. CC is arguably the best power 120 move in the game, and is especially great on Infernape, considering it's drawback is it's lowering of Infernape's already low defenses. Priority is pretty essential, so Mach Punch makes an appearance here. U-turn is for scouting and smacking stuff like Cresselia/Reuniclus on the way out as I bring in a better check.
Salamence (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 148HP/184Atk/176Spe
Naive (+Spe/-SpD)
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
Salamance brings some more power and offensive structure. I also tend to like to have a secondary sweeping option on a team, and MoxieMence fills that role quite well. DD can set him up to take a nice hunk out of the opposing team. The additional attack boosts from Moxie get him to the point where he OHKOs just about everything. Even if the situation isn't ideal for DD, he can come in and revenge kill something, which will get him a nice Moxie boost. Status can ruin a Salamence sweep, so Lum Berry can be a game-changing item. Physical walls like Skarmory take a nice surprise from Fire Blast, which also benefits from the sun. Outrage isn't usable with Moxie, and being locked into it is a situation I probably wouldn't want to be in with a secondary sweeper anyway. So, Dragon Claw it is. His main problems are SR, Ice Shard, and Bullet Punch. All of those can be taken care of by the rest of the team. Knowing when and when not to bring Salamence in has been pretty key for it's success.
Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248HP/252Atk/8Spe
Adamant (+Atk/-Spa)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit
At first, Scizor on a sun team might seem like a bad idea. But lets be real, pretty much any fire attack that Scizor takes OHKOs it anyway. CB Scizor is typically seen as serving as the "glue" to many teams. This is no exception. I did something a little different with the EVs here, taking a few from HP and putting them in Speed. That way, my CB Scizor is faster than your CB Scizor. That way if we end up in a Scizor face off, I'll have the edge. With Scizor re-claiming the #1 spot in terms of usage, that situation can definitely come up. There are 3 priority moves on this team, and Scizor's Bullet Punch is some of the best priority a team can have. The rest of the arsenal is standard Scizor fare. Pursuit has been incredibly valuable since adding this guy.
Donphan (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252HP/252Atk/4Def
Adamant (+Atk/-SpA)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
Even with a support poke, I tend to have an offensive mindset. That is the case here with Donphan if you take a look at it's EVs. With two of the best spinners (Starmie and Tentacruel) being a little impractical under the sun, Donphan is an ideal fit for this team. Even with it's EVs leaning in the offensive direction, Donphan is still physically pretty tough, adding some physically defensive structure. This sun team isn't as weak to SR as some sun teams are, but spinning away entry hazards is still a nice thing to be able to do. Getting up my own SR is always helpful. Earthquake for a nice, hard STAB hit and Ice Shard for some nice priority, especially against the dragons.
Threat List
Sandstorm Teams
Obviously for any weather team, defeating other weather teams requires some strategy. Sun teams have an especially tough time against sand and rain. Sandstorm can be tough simply because of some of the pokes that are found on it. This team has a harder time with Hippowdon than it does with Tyranitar. Hippowdon is just bulkier and harder to hit with super effective hits. Tyranitar is a powerful poke, but with Scizor, Infernape, and even Donphan, Tyranitar's weaknesses are ready to be exploited. And if he comes in and changes the weather on Ninetales, HP Fighting is there to take it out if the situation is ideal. Landorus is kind of a pain. Usually I end up having to resort to Ice Shard and Bullet Punch to take it on. Terrakion is quick and has offensive coverage that is a pain. Scizor is ready to OHKO with Bullet Punch, but he has to be available.
Rain Teams
Probably knew this was coming. If a rain team wins the weather changing battle, they likely win the match. This team doesn't have a straight up counter for Politoed, which can be complicated. We're set up to have an answer for so many of the top used pokes, but that coverage seems to have come at the expense of having sure fire answer for Politoed. If my MoxieMence gets going, Politoed is toast. But that can't always be counted on. Gyrados is a bit of trouble, mainly because I don't have Electric or Rock type attacks ready to go. I usually just end up overpowering it. Tentacruel can be pretty annoying. Not offensively, but I've had trouble taking it down. Jirachi is a problem in the rain. If the sun is up, I've got fire attacks on 4 pokes that can take it out. But in the rain, that all changes. Salamence can't quite 2HKO it without a boost, so Jirachi can manage to get it statused.
Chandelure
Chandelure can be taken down by this team, but it usually ends up doing some bad damage. (Yes, I have seen it in OU a decent amount of times) Mence's EQ won't OHKO unless it's had a boost, Infernape can't hit it except for U-turn, Venusaur won't OHKO and has his weakness increased in the sun. Chandelure may be pursuit-bait, but Scizor is slower than it and can be OHKOd.
Conclusion
Well there you have it!. Like I said, it's gone through a lot of trial and error, and this is what I've come up with. It's had some pretty great success competitively, especially for a sun team. I've just had a bit of trouble succeeding at the highest level possible. Let me know what you guys think!
Ninetales (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Drought
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SAtk / 228 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Energy Ball
- Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot
Venusaur (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 184 HP / 252 SAtk / 72 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Energy Ball
- Growth
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sludge Bomb
Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit
Donphan (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- U-turn
Salamence (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 148 HP / 184 Atk / 176 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
Trait: Drought
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SAtk / 228 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Energy Ball
- Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot
Venusaur (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 184 HP / 252 SAtk / 72 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Energy Ball
- Growth
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sludge Bomb
Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit
Donphan (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- U-turn
Salamence (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 148 HP / 184 Atk / 176 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
