Viability of Substitute Metagross

[Kade712]

Basically the Agiligross set with Substitute instead of T-Punch/Explosion.

I've recently been thinking about the usefullness of Substitute on Metagross in a Wifi battling enviroment as a lead pokemon. While Metagross certainly doesn't have the gigantic HP needed for its substitutes to survive Siesmic Toss, Seismic Toss users are very rare nowadays. The strategy would be to Substitute first turn as the opponent switches or even if the opponent attacks, most common leads will outspeed Metagross anyway, ensuring at least one turn to use Agility and proceed to sweep. Thoughts?

 

[Carl]

My main issue with this would be limiting of attack options. As it is, I hate wasting a spot for Agility and refuse to use the move on Metagross in favor of another attack. Metagross has a huge movepool and it seems wasteful to limit it to one of the worst offensive attacking types in the game (steel) and either a potential immunity in Thunderpunch or Earthquake or even less pure attacking in Explosion. No matter which way I look at it, I value versatility over "sweep only if conditions are right."

 

[nardd]

Usually the opposing team needs to be weakened first in order to sweep with an unboosted metagross. Thunderpunch is for gyrados who otherwise walls your attacks and explosion is good for taking out walls. I'd say no on substitute. The agility is used for late-game rather than the beginning.

 

[CZ]

Its a risk that most wont be willing to take. One of the things that I love most about Metagross is the massive power of his Explosion. It makes people think twice about stiwching in their bulky water, for fear that it might go kaboom right in their face. As Carl said, Metagross has a massive movepool, and he can do better things thank Sub. This reminds me of a strategy I used in advance. Use Metagross EV'd in Attack and Special Attack to draw out the foes Physical Defender. If its Skarmory, Thunderpunch it. If it is a Bulky Water, go boom. After that, allow the rest of your team (mostly Physical attackers usually stopped by Skarm/Bulk Waters) and allow then to have a hay-day.

 

[Kade712]

While giving up Explosion, T-Punch for the bulky waters seems suicidal, in the D/P battling scene, its all about hitting hard and fast, which is what I feel makes this set a viable option. Substitute brings in a surprise factor that could ruin your opponents strategy. Substitute blocks any attempts to status, which is what I have found to be the easiest way to knock Metagross down, Metagross fears being burnt or paralyzed, as burn basically stops Metagross and being paralyzed makes Agility useless. Skarmory could potentially laugh in this sets face, but roosting off damage is a risk due to Earthquake. Basically, I think this set would work decently because it adds the surprise factor. I mean really, who would expect a Metagross to Substitute? I was thinking a Lum Berry in case the enemy lead is fast enough to status, Will-o-Wisp Gengar for example.

 

[COalex]

I like the idea, but I don't know how well it would be implemented. I'd assume it would go in place of Explosion, which might be worth trying out.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

I agree on the idea of Metagross sweeping being late game only, as one common factor truly screws over this Metagross as a lead. Focus Sash. After setting up with Substitute and Agility, you give your opponent time to take down at least half your health before even launching an attack, and when you do, the chances of an OHKO against a Focus Sasher are, let me think, 0%, yeah, that's it.

 

[Aero]

Substitute would generally used to ease prediction, which Metagross doesn't need very much (not as much as other physical sweepers, anyways). Metagross can take hits well, and Meteor Mash does ample damage to practically everything.

 

[Monkeymascot]

The strategy would be to Substitute first turn as the opponent switches or even if the opponent attacks, most common leads will outspeed Metagross anyway, ensuring at least one turn to use Agility and proceed to sweep. Thoughts?

Wouldn't it be better to just use Agility on the switch rather than Substitute then having your Sub broken or being phazed?

 

[Aero]

Wouldn't it be better to just use Agility on the switch rather than Substitute then having your Sub broken or being phazed?

Not always -- for example:

If the opponent switches in Gliscor:
- If you used Agility, you have to switch out or Gliscor will happily Earthquake.
- If you used Substitute, you can Meteor Mash Gliscor before switching out.

Of course, you can Meteor Mash right from the start and get pretty much the same results without losing HP to Substitute, but you won't always predict perfectly. Substitute pretty much lets you usually "make the correct prediction" by sacrificing a bit of HP.

That being said, since you usually want to Meteor Mash early game and leave Agility to the endgame anyways, I don't think Substitute is really necessary.

 

[Mekkah]

Substitute would be sort of useful if you're fighting Dusknoir or Weezing to block Will-o-Wisp, but neither of these should switch into Metagross without some risky maneuvers. As Carl said, Metagross wants versatility before this kind of "safety".