"Victorious" OU RMT

[nONsTOP]

This is my newest team that I have been testing on the OU Shoddy Server. It’s just your average, balanced team. Any advice on how to make this team better is greatly appreciated. Changes in red.

At a Glance​

​

I do have 3 pokes that are weak to fighting, but the other half of my team is resistant to it, so I haven’t had much trouble with them. Azelf can revenge kill most of them anyway.

Closer Look​

Azelf @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Explosion (was Thunderpunch)
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
---
Azelf is my main revenge killer and is also a scout and my lead for this team. Salamence (after 1 DD) and Flygon are both revenge killed with Ice Punch, and it is also in charge of killing frail fighting-types with Zen Headbutt. Additionally, once my HP is low, I can blow up and kill something with Explosion. This can be Gyarados, Kingdra, or any other threat. I chose Azelf for my lead for a few reasons. One, it has good coverage against some common leads such as Roserade, Machamp, and Gliscor. Two, it is a surprise to the opponent that I am scarfed because most lead Azelfs are either Dual Screen set-ups or SR suicide leads. And three, I can use U-Turn on leads to break their Focus Sash and send in my best possible counter pokemon to finish it off. Here are some common patterns I run in the first two turns.

Vs. Azelf: U-Turn, and then send in Lucario to finish off with Exteemspeed. The opposing Azelf usually uses a support move or Taunt, so Lucario only takes LO damage.

Vs. Metagross: U-Turn, and then send in Gliscor, who either sets up SR’s or Taunts Gross, depending on what it did the last turn.

Vs. Infernape: Take the fake out, and then U-Turn to Starmie.

You get the picture.

Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Swords Dance
- Crunch
---
Lucario is my physical sweeper and wall-breaker. It completely destroys the now-popular Blissey-Rotom and Blissey-Skarmory wall combinations after just one SD. Along with that, it is a great check to Tyranitar and can be a late-game sweeper (however, I don’t normally use him that way)

Heatran (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earth Power
- Explosion
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Electric]
---
This Heatran is pretty self-explanatory. After some thought and some testing, I decided I was going to choose freedom>speed. Since the Choice Scarf set is so common, I put an Expert Belt on him instead of a LO or Lefties to try to fake have Scarf. This is extremely helpful sometimes. Once I use Fire Blast once, Gyarados seems to always come out to try and set up on me. That’s when it gets slapped in the face with HP Electric. The same is true with Blissey, only she gets the special treatment, Explosion. Die fatass, die.

Tyranitar (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge

This Tyranitar does a couple things for the team. First, it acts as a powerful sweeper. It threatens Latias and Rotom-A, two pokemon who would otherwise cause problems to my team. It also supports Gliscor by activating its Sand Veil. This was originally Blissey, but I replaced it with Tyranitar to promote the offensiveness of this team.


---

Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP/36 Def/220 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Stealth Rock

I chose Gliscor for my team because of its useful resistances to electric, ground, and fighting, and its above average speed for a defensive pokemon. This Gliscor is also my Lucario check, The Jolly nature and 220 Speed EV’s let me outrun even max Jolly Lucarios. Because of its speed, Taunt is a very useful move to break stall and stop the opponent from using stat-increasing moves. EQ is there so I can hit Lucario and Metagross with STAB 2x damage. On the last moveslot, I have decided to keep SR>U-Turn.

---

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Starmie is a special sweeper with amazing coverage that OHKO’s some pokemon that my team was having some trouble with. It is a check to Infernape and scores a surprise KO against Swampert with GK. I left TBolt out of this set because I thought it was redundant after Azelf’s TPunch and Heatran’s HP Electric. Hydro Pump is chosen over Surf for extra power. I have Recover in the last slot to try to keep Starmie alive for longer and to recover from LO damage.
---
Thank all of you again for reading all of this and spending some time rating my team!

 

[symphonyx64]

In this metagame and day and age, Stealth Rock has proven to be a critical component on all nearly all teams. With Stealth Rock, you are able to turn many 2HKOS into OHKOs. In fact, I can remember where talks were being made about banning Stealth Rock at one point.

In addition, you won't say to yourself, "Man, if only I had Stealth Rock [...].", or "Stealth Rock would have helped greatly in this battle [...]." It just that important. Being able to automatically negate Focus Sashes, take 12% off of Pokémon who are neutrally resistant to Rock, 25% off Flying Pokémon, 50% on certain one's such as Charizard is just too good to pass up. Even though you lack a Rapid Spinner blocker on your team, Stealth Rock is still very important. With the advent of Rotom Applicanes running around, Rapid Spin is not as common.

You already have a fairly reliable scouting Pokémon on your team, so, yes, Stealth Rock over U-turn is a must. I have not come across a team where entry hazards have proven to be a hindrance instead of a benefit for the user.

 

[frogbandit]

Hi,

I have a few suggestions for this team.

First, on Azelf, I'd opt for Explosion over Thunderpunch, Explosion is the better option for a lead and is especially helpful in taking out Blisseys. Gyarados leads are not as common anymore so it provides redundant coverage against Salamence and other fliers. Explosion can also be a more useful option later as a revenge killer.

You're also missing 4 EVs on Azelf. Put them in HP.

On Blissey, I suggest the WishBliss set over your set.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
~ Wish
~ Protect / Softboiled
~ Flamethrower / Ice Beam
~ Toxic

The set is much better at supporting the team, especially passing wishes to your sweepers. Protect is generally the better option; Wish + Protect is excellent at stalling especially late game. Toxic is self explanatory, and is also a good support option. The choice between Flamethrower and Ice beam is whether you want to eliminate Salamence or Scizor. I suggest you go with Flamethrower, because you already have CS Azelf to deal with your Salamence problems.

As for Gliscor, I am agreeing with symphonyx64 to definitely put Stealth Rock over U-turn.

overall, gl

 

[nONsTOP]

In this metagame and day and age, Stealth Rock has proven to be a critical component on all nearly all teams. With Stealth Rock, you are able to turn many 2HKOS into OHKOs. In fact, I can remember where talks were being made about banning Stealth Rock at one point.

In addition, you won't say to yourself, "Man, if only I had Stealth Rock [...].", or "Stealth Rock would have helped greatly in this battle [...]." It just that important. Being able to automatically negate Focus Sashes, take 12% off of Pokémon who are neutrally resistant to Rock, 25% off Flying Pokémon, 50% on certain one's such as Charizard is just too good to pass up. Even though you lack a Rapid Spinner blocker on your team, Stealth Rock is still very important. With the advent of Rotom Applicanes running around, Rapid Spin is not as common.

You already have a fairly reliable scouting Pokémon on your team, so, yes, Stealth Rock over U-turn is a must. I have not come across a team where entry hazards have proven to be a hindrance instead of a benefit for the user.

Thanks for your post. I'll definitely keep SR on Gliscor.

Hi,

I have a few suggestions for this team.

First, on Azelf, I'd opt for Explosion over Thunderpunch, Explosion is the better option for a lead and is especially helpful in taking out Blisseys. Gyarados leads are not as common anymore so it provides redundant coverage against Salamence and other fliers. Explosion can also be a more useful option later as a revenge killer.

You're also missing 4 EVs on Azelf. Put them in HP.

On Blissey, I suggest the WishBliss set over your set.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
~ Wish
~ Protect / Softboiled
~ Flamethrower / Ice Beam
~ Toxic

The set is much better at supporting the team, especially passing wishes to your sweepers. Protect is generally the better option; Wish + Protect is excellent at stalling especially late game. Toxic is self explanatory, and is also a good support option. The choice between Flamethrower and Ice beam is whether you want to eliminate Salamence or Scizor. I suggest you go with Flamethrower, because you already have CS Azelf to deal with your Salamence problems.

As for Gliscor, I am agreeing with symphonyx64 to definitely put Stealth Rock over U-turn.

overall, gl

I see what you're saying about Azelf. Explosion can revenge kill Gyara in a pinch anyway. And I didn't notice the EV thing thanks for pointing that out. The reason I have Shadow Ball on Blissey is to counter sub and charge beam Rotoms. Wish doesn't help much because I have no pokemon to switch into to receive wish. Only Gliscor can take a big physical hit aimed at Blissey, and he has Roost. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[vashta]

hi, i'm vashta.

ok your team seems to be on the verge of pure hyper offense, but there seems to be one thing preventing it from becoming a fully-fledged one: blissey. now, how does blissey give the team itself problems? well, though it may be able to help check a lot of special attacking threats, you appear to be missing out the fact that you can: a) already play around these threats and b) most likely prevent their set-up with a wide variation of methods that may overwhelm the opponent. the whole point of hyper offense is so one overwhelms the opponent, forces them into make-shift situations which benefits oneself to the extent in which they control the game and can win it with little effort; the continued pressure added upon through the use of hard hitting sweepers such as Life Orb Starmie and Swords Dance Lucario can often cause opponents to drive off-track, strategically speaking. the use of sufficient speed only complements this factor as it enables one to outmanuver stall teams, most types of balanced teams and such, by ratio of Pokémon. focusing on this aspect with your team is something i think will improve your team in general; but blissey's inclusion within the team is somewhat hindering the team's ability to add pressure to the opponents because of the fact that it's very slow and can often open opportunities for opponents to gather themselves and counter-act any sweeping potential you once had, and, as blissey seems to be the only "true defensive stud" of the team, it generally means your team is basically going to have a hard time playing around foes, faster than Blissey.

the beauty of hyper offense means that on top of being able to handle your opponents with yourself being in control at all times, you are immediately given the information needed to make informed decisions on future moves you make due to the fact that the pressure you add on opponents causes them to think hard, and switch around thoroughly just to gain a taste for what your team is like and how they can attempt to deal with it, but by which case they are unable to due to their loss of control of the outcome of the match and the fact that they are forced to continue to prioritize with "how to deal with each individual sweeper" -- all the sweepers on this team specifically appear to be beneficiaries to one another in the respect that they all eliminate one's counters and checks and their typings allow one another to find relative safe passage to sweep (i.e. starmie's pursuit weakness, after it has done its job, means that lucario can use it as an advantage to set-up and potentially sweep).

the point i'm trying to get is that you focus on the sole hyper offensive goal of the team (and that you bear this in mind for the stuff that is to come in this rate). now, back to your blissey situation: you mention that blissey is there to deal with calm mind suicune, calm mind latias, heatran, and some rotoms. to be honest, as i've already hinted that blissey is slowing your team down and really not helping it with making a big impact upon opponents offensively in general. to be honest, i believe that the addition of dragon dance tyranitar is an excellent choice of substitution over blissey. why? well it's pretty simple really; tyranitar deals can force out/remove latias from play and use this as an added opportunity to set-up and wreak havoc, especially when starmie's/heatran (you'll see later) done its job in removing gliscor/hippowdon/swampert from play. with regards to heatran trouble, tyranitar can deal with it, even if it carries explosion thanks to its resistance to explosion and heatran's stab fire blast. in general, tyranitar + gliscor / starmie can deal with most variations of heatran, whereas life orb heatran can be forced into submission through the use of smart thinking and fast approach to attacking -- besides, it can hardly switch in anywhere half the time. rotom (even sub rotom) is dealt with a combination of smart thinking, heatran, tyranitar, and gliscor, so that shouldn't be a major problem either. the set i'd like to suggest is as follows:

tyranitar @ babiri berry / lum berry
ability: sand stream
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
jolly nature (+spe, -spa)
-- crunch
-- dragon dance
-- stone edge
-- fire punch

with babiri berry, you can easily take the bullet punch from choice band scizor and ko it, after stealth rock at least, with fire punch, but with lum berry, you can take the status afflicted upon by blissey and other annoying foes that spam thunder wave and the likes (the example with ice beam, obviously), in which other Pokémon are unable to switch in due to the fear of their potential sweep being hindered.

now, for your heatran set. to be quite frank, i'm kinda bewildered as to the fact why you use hidden power electric + expert belt over life orb which hits so much more usefully. now, what are the cons to expert belt and "bluffing your Pokémon?" well, the only two major things i can honestly see your current set bluffing is opposing heatran and gyarados. now, with life orb heatran, you already do a tremendous 38.37% - 45.32% with life orbed fire blast, meaning gyarados cannot switch into you as it is essentially 2hkoed after stealth rock -- unless it's jolly with max speed, obviously, which means you're screwed regardless -- and life orb generally hurts foes much harder than heatran would otherwise thanks to the 10% boost it has over expert belt, thus it has a much higher chance of achieving serious 2hkoes than usual (such as 2hkoing common salamence switch-ins). with regards to opposing heatrans, you don't really want to be forcusing your energies on luring it in and removing it, especially with the addition of the aforementioned tyranitar over blissey which is seems like a godsend to you. life orb heatran also hurts stall much more furociously than your current heatran. therefore, i suggest changing heatran's expert belt for life orb, and giving heatran hidden power grass over the current hidden power electric so you hit swampert hard (and still any bulky water-types) -- which benefits tyranitar, too. you may opt to use taunt over explosion for the fact that you can hinder stall teams, but i don't think this is an obligatory change on your team, particularly as you already pressure stall as it is, and explosion is an added last-ditch attempt bonus at hindering opponent's attempts to set-up and sweep if ever came a time where that is possible, and a flaw in your strategy has occured.

lastly, i'd like to change your current azelf lead to a choice scarf jirachi lead to eleviate you of your pursuit/dark weakness and the fact that jirachi's bulk enables you to switchin on certain attacks and revenge kill certain threats that you may find unable to stop from switching in regardless of your efforts (such as dragon dance salamence and gyarados -- the latter with life orb, but still not as frequent, i guess). jirachi still gets to set-up stealth rock relatively well, and beats more foe leads as your current azelf does, but the revenge killing factor is much more beneficial to you at the moment. the set i'd like to bring forward to you is;

jirachi @ choice scarf
ability: serene grace
evs: 80 HP / 252 atk / 176 Spe (or move 76 HP evs into Speed if speed ties are a problem)
jolly nature (+spe, -spa)
-- iron head
-- thunderpunch
-- stealth rock
-- fire punch

alternatively, you could just opt to make azelf the standard lead with focus sash; psychic, explosion, taunt, stealth rock as it flows much better with the team, though you do lose the revenge killing element. it's optional, really, but the revenge killing element seems relatively important to this team in the latter stages in matches, in my opinion.

ok that's it. sorry for the long rate. i got carried away.

tl;dr:

choice scarf jirachi -> azelf
life orb heatran -> expert belt heatran
dragon dance tyranitar -> blissey


good luck with the team!

 

[nONsTOP]

hi, i'm vashta.

ok your team seems to be on the verge of pure hyper offense, but there seems to be one thing preventing it from becoming a fully-fledged one: blissey. now, how does blissey give the team itself problems? well, though it may be able to help check a lot of special attacking threats, you appear to be missing out the fact that you can: a) already play around these threats and b) most likely prevent their set-up with a wide variation of methods that may overwhelm the opponent. the whole point of hyper offense is so one overwhelms the opponent, forces them into make-shift situations which benefits oneself to the extent in which they control the game and can win it with little effort; the continued pressure added upon through the use of hard hitting sweepers such as Life Orb Starmie and Swords Dance Lucario can often cause opponents to drive off-track, strategically speaking. the use of sufficient speed only complements this factor as it enables one to outmanuver stall teams, most types of balanced teams and such, by ratio of Pokémon. focusing on this aspect with your team is something i think will improve your team in general; but blissey's inclusion within the team is somewhat hindering the team's ability to add pressure to the opponents because of the fact that it's very slow and can often open opportunities for opponents to gather themselves and counter-act any sweeping potential you once had, and, as blissey seems to be the only "true defensive stud" of the team, it generally means your team is basically going to have a hard time playing around foes, faster than Blissey.

the beauty of hyper offense means that on top of being able to handle your opponents with yourself being in control at all times, you are immediately given the information needed to make informed decisions on future moves you make due to the fact that the pressure you add on opponents causes them to think hard, and switch around thoroughly just to gain a taste for what your team is like and how they can attempt to deal with it, but by which case they are unable to due to their loss of control of the outcome of the match and the fact that they are forced to continue to prioritize with "how to deal with each individual sweeper" -- all the sweepers on this team specifically appear to be beneficiaries to one another in the respect that they all eliminate one's counters and checks and their typings allow one another to find relative safe passage to sweep (i.e. starmie's pursuit weakness, after it has done its job, means that lucario can use it as an advantage to set-up and potentially sweep).

the point i'm trying to get is that you focus on the sole hyper offensive goal of the team (and that you bear this in mind for the stuff that is to come in this rate). now, back to your blissey situation: you mention that blissey is there to deal with calm mind suicune, calm mind latias, heatran, and some rotoms. to be honest, as i've already hinted that blissey is slowing your team down and really not helping it with making a big impact upon opponents offensively in general. to be honest, i believe that the addition of dragon dance tyranitar is an excellent choice of substitution over blissey. why? well it's pretty simple really; tyranitar deals can force out/remove latias from play and use this as an added opportunity to set-up and wreak havoc, especially when starmie's/heatran (you'll see later) done its job in removing gliscor/hippowdon/swampert from play. with regards to heatran trouble, tyranitar can deal with it, even if it carries explosion thanks to its resistance to explosion and heatran's stab fire blast. in general, tyranitar + gliscor / starmie can deal with most variations of heatran, whereas life orb heatran can be forced into submission through the use of smart thinking and fast approach to attacking -- besides, it can hardly switch in anywhere half the time. rotom (even sub rotom) is dealt with a combination of smart thinking, heatran, tyranitar, and gliscor, so that shouldn't be a major problem either. the set i'd like to suggest is as follows:

tyranitar @ babiri berry / lum berry
ability: sand stream
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
jolly nature (+spe, -spa)
-- crunch
-- dragon dance
-- stone edge
-- fire punch

with babiri berry, you can easily take the bullet punch from choice band scizor and ko it, after stealth rock at least, with fire punch, but with lum berry, you can take the status afflicted upon by blissey and other annoying foes that spam thunder wave and the likes (the example with ice beam, obviously), in which other Pokémon are unable to switch in due to the fear of their potential sweep being hindered.

now, for your heatran set. to be quite frank, i'm kinda bewildered as to the fact why you use hidden power electric + expert belt over life orb which hits so much more usefully. now, what are the cons to expert belt and "bluffing your Pokémon?" well, the only two major things i can honestly see your current set bluffing is opposing heatran and gyarados. now, with life orb heatran, you already do a tremendous 38.37% - 45.32% with life orbed fire blast, meaning gyarados cannot switch into you as it is essentially 2hkoed after stealth rock -- unless it's jolly with max speed, obviously, which means you're screwed regardless -- and life orb generally hurts foes much harder than heatran would otherwise thanks to the 10% boost it has over expert belt, thus it has a much higher chance of achieving serious 2hkoes than usual (such as 2hkoing common salamence switch-ins). with regards to opposing heatrans, you don't really want to be forcusing your energies on luring it in and removing it, especially with the addition of the aforementioned tyranitar over blissey which is seems like a godsend to you. life orb heatran also hurts stall much more furociously than your current heatran. therefore, i suggest changing heatran's expert belt for life orb, and giving heatran hidden power grass over the current hidden power electric so you hit swampert hard (and still any bulky water-types) -- which benefits tyranitar, too. you may opt to use taunt over explosion for the fact that you can hinder stall teams, but i don't think this is an obligatory change on your team, particularly as you already pressure stall as it is, and explosion is an added last-ditch attempt bonus at hindering opponent's attempts to set-up and sweep if ever came a time where that is possible, and a flaw in your strategy has occured.

lastly, i'd like to change your current azelf lead to a choice scarf jirachi lead to eleviate you of your pursuit/dark weakness and the fact that jirachi's bulk enables you to switchin on certain attacks and revenge kill certain threats that you may find unable to stop from switching in regardless of your efforts (such as dragon dance salamence and gyarados -- the latter with life orb, but still not as frequent, i guess). jirachi still gets to set-up stealth rock relatively well, and beats more foe leads as your current azelf does, but the revenge killing factor is much more beneficial to you at the moment. the set i'd like to bring forward to you is;

jirachi @ choice scarf
ability: serene grace
evs: 80 HP / 252 atk / 176 Spe (or move 76 HP evs into Speed if speed ties are a problem)
jolly nature (+spe, -spa)
-- iron head
-- thunderpunch
-- stealth rock
-- fire punch

alternatively, you could just opt to make azelf the standard lead with focus sash; psychic, explosion, taunt, stealth rock as it flows much better with the team, though you do lose the revenge killing element. it's optional, really, but the revenge killing element seems relatively important to this team in the latter stages in matches, in my opinion.

ok that's it. sorry for the long rate. i got carried away.

tl;dr:

choice scarf jirachi -> azelf
life orb heatran -> expert belt heatran
dragon dance tyranitar -> blissey


good luck with the team!

Thanks so much I can tell you put a lot time into this. The DD TTar>Blissey suggestion is amazing. I couldn't agree more. TTar's Sand Stream will also support Gliscor by activating his Sand Veil.

To your Heatran change: I have had great success with Expert Belt set. I appreciate the suggestion though.

To the Jirachi>Azelf: After doing more testing, I've discovered a weakness to water-type moves and bulky-waters. Therefore, I'm planning to switch Azelf to Manaphy with this set once I can test it on Shoddy:

Manaphy@Choice Scarf
#Timid
EV's: 76 HP/252 SpA/180 Spe
~Surf
~Ice Beam
~Hidden Power [Electric]
~U-Turn

I also plan on switching Starmie to this similar set on Celebi once that happens to rip bulky waters to shreds:

Celebi@Life Orb
#Timid
EV's: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
~Leaf Storm
~Psychic
~Baton Pass (For scouting and being able to safely switch to Lucario against TTar and Scizor's pursuits)
~Recover

What do you think? Thanks again for your time!

 

[yond]

life orb heatran > expert belt heatran
dragon dance tyranitar > blissey

THIS^

now to my opinion. What i would suggest is this.

Make Lucario Jolly in this metagame Speed>Power

Instead of azelf or jirachi as your lead i would suggest this.

Use Stealth Rock Lead Celebi
Celebi@Focus sash
76hp/252spA/180 spe
Modest / natural cure
-stealth rock
-leaf storm
-earth power
-uturn

This will give you a bulky poke to resist water types which can sweep your team and gives you a reliable stealth rocker plus scouter lead.

And instead of starmie use scarf manaphy

Manaphy@Choice Scarf
#Timid
EV's: 76 HP/252 SpA/180 Spe
~Hydro Pump
~Ice Beam
~Hidden Power [Electric]
~Grass Knot

This set will give you a bulky revenge killer which will also again deal with your large water type weakness.

With these your team synergy will be better but still watch out for waters

 

[MrIndigo]

THIS^

now to my opinion. What i would suggest is this.

Make Lucario Jolly in this metagame Speed>Power

This is not correct. Jolly lacks the ability to make certain OHKOs, like Skarmory or Rotom. Scarfwielders still outspeed the Jolly set, and even without a scarf, Jolly Gliscor still outspeeds and OHKOs with Earthquake.

Adamant is thus better than Jolly for Lucario.

 

[nONsTOP]

This is not correct. Jolly lacks the ability to make certain OHKOs, like Skarmory or Rotom. Scarfwielders still outspeed the Jolly set, and even without a scarf, Jolly Gliscor still outspeeds and OHKOs with Earthquake.

Adamant is thus better than Jolly for Lucario.

Yes. Exactly my thoughts. I have Jolly Gliscor myself, so I know how badly Jolly Lucario fails.