Victreebel [QC: 0/3]

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[QC: ]
[GP: ]

victreebel.gif


Overview
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+ Fast in sun
+ Versatile
+ Good Atk and SpA
+ Good typing offensively
+ Can lure in Dragalge
- Slow without Sun
- Frail

Mixed Attacker
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name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Growth / Sleep Powder
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Double Edge
move 4: Sludge Bomb
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Life Orb
evs: 192 Atk / 64 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naughty

Moves
=======

- Growth boosts both Attack and Special Attack by one stage; two if sun is present. This immensely boosts Victreebel's ability to wallbreak, sweep, or even clean if the sun was present.
- Sleep Powder can be used instead of Growth as it puts annoying pokemon, which are hard to work around, into temporarily sleep allowing Victreebel a free switch.
- Power Whip is Victreebel's most powerful and consistent STAB, though the low accuracy is a bit annoying, but it's most of the times worth it. It is great for hitting Water-, Rock-, and Ground- types.
- Double Edge is used to 2HKO Black Sludge Dragalge after rocks and OHKO after a Growth boost.
- Sludge Bomb is another powerful and consistent STAB for Victreebel, the most powerful Poison STAB Victreebel's movepool offers. It is great for hitting Fairy- and Grass- types.

Set Details
========

- Life Orb is used since it gives Victreebel a lot of needed power to wallbreak and clean.
- If sun was provided, this particular set would appreciate it a lot, since it gains a lot of speed under sun and doubles Growth's boosts.
- The Attack EV's with the given nature guarantee the 2HKO on Dragalge after rocks with a Life Orb.
- Speed is maximized because Victreebel wants to outspeed as much pokemons as possible, even with sun support.
- The remainder EV's are put into SpA to juice Sludge Bomb's power.

Usage Tips
========

- This set of Victreebel would appreciate sun support, but can still function with out it, not as effectively though.
- Make sure you don't reveal Double Edge until you lure in or predict the switch of Dragalge, since Dragalge would most likely not switch after seeing Double Edge.
- Victreebel is best used a late-game cleaner if sun support was provided, as it doubles its speed, outspeeding everything in the tier, while having great power.
- Victreebel can attempt a sweep if sun support was provided, but would often also need a Growth boost.
- Additionally, Victreebel can work as a great wallbreaker, reaching amazing power after a growth boost.

Team Options
========

- Victreebel would really appreciate sun support, so anything like Regirock or Uxie would be appreciated to bring in sun support.
- Any pokemon that appreciates Victreebel's wallbreaking, cleaning, or even sweeping abilities would like Victreebel as a teammate.
- As mentioned before, Victreebel loves hazard support, as it can nail many 2HKOs and OHKOs with it, such as Dragalge.
- Anything that resists Victreebel's common Flying-, Fire-, Ice-, and Psychic- type attacks is appreciated.

Sun Attacker
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name: Sun Attacker
move 1: Growth / Sleep Powder
move 2: Solar Beam
move 3: Weather Ball
move 4: Sludge Bomb
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
=======

- Growth boosts Victreebel's SpA by one, 2 if sun is present. This is extremely helpful when attempting a sweep.
- Alternatively, Sleep Powder can be used to put pokemons that wall Victreebel, such as Dragalge, to sleep and get a free switch.
- Solar Beam is Victreebel's most powerful special STAB, make sure sun is up before using it.
- Weather Ball under sun becomes a base 100 Fire type move, which means it becomes 150 after sun boost. Weather Ball is useful to hit Steel- types and Grass- types that otherwise can live at least a hit from Victreebel and KO back.
- Sludge Bomb is another powerful STAB, hitting Grass- types and Fairy- types, the former can potentially wall Victreebel otherwise.

Set Details
========

- This set cannot function outside of sun, except in spamming Sludge Bomb which is unreliable, and so sun support is mandatory.
- Life Orb is used to give Victreebel as much power as possible, which is important to let Victreebel clean or even sweep.
- The EV's maximize Speed and Special Attack, to make Victreebel as effective as possible.

Usage Tips
========

- This set cannot function outside of sun, except in spamming Sludge Bomb which is unreliable, and so sun support is mandatory.
- This set of Victreebel is a great cleaner, wallbreaker, or even Sweeper, so make sure you preserve it mid/late-game.
- Make sure everything is weakened enough for Victreebel to nail the KO on, so Victreebel can pull off an effective clean or even sweep.
- Don't try and use this set outside of sun, as the only thing it can do is spam Sludge Bomb.

Team Options
========

- This set of Victreebel really needs sun support, so anything like Regirock or Uxie would be almost mandatory to bring in sun support.
- Any pokemon that appreciates Victreebel's wallbreaking, cleaning, or even sweeping abilities would like Victreebel as a teammate.
- As mentioned before, Victreebel loves hazard support, as it helps turning possible 2HKOs into OHKOs. Hazards also greatly improve Victreebel's cleaning ability.
- Anything that resists Victreebel's common Flying-, Fire-, Ice-, and Psychic- type attacks is appreciated.

Other Options
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- Knock Off can be used to hit bulky Psychic- types which can usually take a hit and OHKO back easily.
- Encore can be used to lock pokemons into setting up, laying down their hazards, or just doing any non-damaging move like Defog or Substitute.
- Sucker Punch can be used to give Victreebel a form of priority, although weak, it can be very handy in some situations.
- Swords Dance can be used as it is more consistent than Growth especially on the physically based Victreebel set.

Checks & Counters
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**Bulky Poison types**: Pokemons like Muk, Physically Defensive Dragalge, Arbok, Garbador, and Weezing all can take on Victreebel's most powerful attacks and 2HKO or even OHKO back.

**Bulky Flying types**: Pokemons like Articuno, Altaria, Rotom-Fan, Unfezant, and Xatu can take a hit and OHKO back with relative ease. They cannot switch on Sludge Bomb, Double Edge, or even Weather ball if Victreebel is faster though.

**Specially Defensive Behemoths**: Pokemons like Lickilicky, Audino, Cradily, Mantine, and Spiritomb can take a hit or two and 3HKO or 2HKO back.

**Bulky Sap Sipper pokemons**: Pokemons like Miltank, Bouffalant, and Girafarig can all take a hit and 2HKO or even OHKO back, since they are bulky and can survive a Sludge Bomb or a Double Edge
 
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Before anyone jumps on me, Double Edge is for Dragalge, 2HKOs 252 HP after rocks w/ LO and 228 Atk.

Questions for QC:

Unsure about ev's for 1st set, no speed + chlorophyll outspeed base 110.

Should I replace All Out Attacker set with Mixed Chlorophyll Attacker (Different than Mixed Attacker since no slashes on sunny day and can afford to go max atk max spa)? or just keep it like this?
 
I feel Growth has to be the first/only slash on the Sun sweeper set. Generally you use Victreebel on a sun team with prior support, and with a Growth +2 up, this thing seriously OHKOs the entire fucking tier bar Dragalge.
I also wouldn't be opposed to slashing Sleep powder on there somewhere, as it's very useful to neuter something like liepard that came in to Sucker Punch you, or for slower things you cant OHKO [dragalge].

Basically, the first line of the sun sweeper set should be Growth / Sleep Powder; unless someone else from QC disagrees with me about Sleep Powder,.
 
Oh, and Lifeorb should be the only item on that set as well, Victreebell is a sun sweeper, not a sun supporter.

and the EV's should be something a lot closer to 252+ SpAtk / 252 Spe. you might not need max speed, but you definitely want a lot. once again I'll tag This Is Fearsome cause of his extended experience using Victreebel as a sun sweeper.
 
Yeah I see where you are coming from, but it's really hard to find sun support, I removed the slash anyways

for now I replaced Special chlorophyll with Mixed Attacker, and the second set with Sun Attacker, which needs sun support to function.

Also I miscalculated with the EVs, 192 Atk w/ Naughty nature since is 2HKOs Black Sludge Dragalge and OHKOs at +2. Sun Attacker is completely 252 SpA since weather ball and solar beam.

I slashed Sleep Powder w/ Sludge Bomb and HP Fire for all-out atacking. I was gonna mention it in moves but w/e, I'm probably gonna mention Encore in moves or at least OO.

Also for any QC: Should I replace HP fire w/ Weather Ball or should I assume no sun support for that set?
 
I still feel that, even though it needs sun to function, the sun sweeper is hands down victreebel's best set, and should be listed first. sun support isn't that hard in a tier with Regirock, Uxie, Mesprit, Volbeat, Liepard, etc...
Also remove encore, as Victreebell would rather just be fucking shit up than locking things into moves. Slash Sleep powder over Growth if anything, Sludge bomb is way too necessary to get part fairy types. Again, idk if Sleep powder is worthy of a slash or just a moves mention on the sun sweeper set, I'll leave that up to the rest of QC with their opinions.

As for the other two sets, idk if they're worth using outside of sun, but again, I'll let the rest of QC delve into that.

Maybe an OO mention for a belch set with Petaya berry and substitute? It sounds usable at worst.
 
It's not that they cannot function under sun, it's that they function both outside of sun and inside of it. While the Sun Attack only functions when sun support is provided.

Removed Encore, gonna keep it in OO, and yeah Sleep Powder slashed w/ Growth / Weather Ball
 
TheCanadianWifier said:
Basically, the first line of the sun sweeper set should be Growth / Sleep Powder; unless someone else from QC disagrees with me about Sleep Powder,.
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TheCanadianWifier said:
Slash Sleep powder over Growth if anything
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3rd times the charm? :\
Growth is the only move thats anywhere near replaceable on this set. Weather Ball and Solarbeam are both crucial, and Sludge Bomb offers very nice STAB coverage. Without growth, you won't be straight 6-0ing teams, but you can still punch significant holes and sleep anything that stops you.

Anyway I see what you're talking about by functioning in and outside of sun, but I feel Victreebel outside of sun is a tad too slow to be gearing up for a sweep. Double Edge 2HKOing Dragalge, the most common switch-in, is cool though. Maybe define it as more of a lure for stuff that likes Dragalge gone?
 
TheCanadianWifier said:
3rd times the charm? :\
Growth is the only move thats anywhere near replaceable on this set. Weather Ball and Solarbeam are both crucial, and Sludge Bomb offers very nice STAB coverage. Without growth, you won't be straight 6-0ing teams, but you can still punch significant holes and sleep anything that stops you.

Anyway I see what you're talking about by functioning in and outside of sun, but I feel Victreebel outside of sun is a tad too slow to be gearing up for a sweep. Double Edge 2HKOing Dragalge, the most common switch-in, is cool though. Maybe define it as more of a lure for stuff that likes Dragalge gone?
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Yeah I put all that
 
I wouldn't say that 'luring in Dragalge' is noteworthy enough to be mentioned in Overview; it's not like Victreebel is exceptional or even reliable at the job, and is certainly not the only one that can do so. Its typing is also not that good offensively, rather it's the the threat of Growth boosted attacks and powerful coverage (like Weather Ball) that separates Victreebel from other Grass attackers (like Vileplume, Exeggutor, and Sceptile, for instance), and should be mentioned in the Overview instead.
 
Montsegur said:
View attachment 24730
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Deleted it by accident, fixed.

Punchshroom said:
I wouldn't say that 'luring in Dragalge' is noteworthy enough to be mentioned in Overview; it's not like Victreebel is exceptional or even reliable at the job, and is certainly not the only one that can do so. Its typing is also not that good offensively, rather it's the the threat of Growth boosted attacks and powerful coverage (like Weather Ball) that separates Victreebel from other Grass attackers (like Vileplume, Exeggutor, and Sceptile, for instance), and should be mentioned in the Overview instead.
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Removed

TheHungrySnorlax said:
Remove Braviary from the counters list, it's banned from NU
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Nice catch removed
 
Because the writer of this skeleton has not been on in awhile, and no one on the QC team seems to have enough experience with Victreebel. This is being locked and moved to low priority for the time being
 
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