Weather-less Favourites (Peak #77)

iamQmai

iamQmai

Hi there Smogonites! We all have our favourite Pokemon, competitively and in-gamely. Both of these for me is Gengar. I started playing OU in the Summer of 2011, and pretty much all of my "good" teams have involved my very gimmicky Gengar. I'm not the best of players ever, I admit, but I never give up and I always try to win without Jirachi. I automatically hate anyone who uses that piece of crap and want to kill them!

Now onto the team.
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Gengar @ Focus Sash
Levitate
Timid
252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
Destiny Bond
Taunt
Giga Drain (/ThunderBolt/Icy Wind)
Shadow Ball

This Gengar is pretty much based around Destiny Bond. Taunt is used so it can stop Rocks/Support users, and to help get killed for DB to work. Shadow Ball is obviously the main STAB move and I like to use Giga Drain for health recovery to give it it's sash back after rocks, TBolt is used if you want for neutral damage to Steels as this cant hit them very well. And Icy Wind although I havent tried it could be to be faster than most pokes.

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Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Guts
Adamant
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Bulk Up
Drain Punch
Mach Punch
Ice Punch

Yes, the normal boring set with crappy EV's, I dont use the normal EV's because I dont understand how the SpD helps at all, it might sound ignorant, and it probably is but meh. Drain Punch is obviously for recovery/hitting hard. Mach Punch for priority, and Ice Punch for Dragons/Amoonguss, which in my opinion is more important to kill than Psychics.

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Dragonite @ Choice Band
Multiscale
Adamant
252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe
Earthquake
Extremespeed
Outrage
Fire Punch

I f**king love Banded Nite. The insane amount of power it has straight off is amazing. Barely anything can walk into this with the correct prediction. The only thing i can think of is Balloon Heatran, and if that has no defensive EV's it gets 2HKO'd after rocks 100% of the time. The only thing I dont like about this is it's meh speed, I dont use 4 HP as then this can come into rocks 4 times. The moves are pretty obvious, the 3 standard moves and EQ instead of DD.

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Latios @ Expert Belt
Levitate
Timid
252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
Calm Mind
Dragon Pulse
ThunderBolt
Ice Beam

One of my favourite competitive pokemon, one of my favourite items. Expert Belt is literally one of the best items ever. No, maybe it isn't on paper, but Latios is expected to be choiced or LO'd. Anything which is like that, i'd put an Expert Belt on it. If you have the psychological advantage, you will most likely win the game. I often bluff i'm choiced, I use TBolt on their Skarmory for example, then they bring in their pathetic Ground type and get raped by an Ice Beam or two. I love Bolt Beam Coverage on this, with Dragon Pulse for STAB, Calm Mind is only used when I think it's necessary to show off i'm not choiced.

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Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Flash Fire
Modest
4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
Fire Blast
Earth Power
Hidden Power [Grass]
Flash Cannon

Ever notice how many times you've been taunted while your Heatran is in? Or them pesky Magic Bouncers come in? Well ScarfTran is such a great poke, i'm suprised it isn't used often. 379 Speed and 393 SpA right off the bat while resisting alot of the metagame and being immune to Fire, yes please! Fire Blast and Earth Power like normal Trans. Hidden Power Grass for Rotom-W and Gastrodon. (And Swampy but you barely see him nowadays) Flash Cannon as I have enough Dragon moves and i'd like a second STAB. Maybe Overheat could replace it, but I quite like it like this.

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Cobalion @ Leftovers
Justified
Impish
212 HP/72 Atk/192 Def/32 Spe
Stealth Rock
Thunder Wave
Sacred Sword
Stone Edge/Roar

This thing is a defensive beast. It can come in on outrages and TWave the offender, and that's that pokemon effectively out of the game. Stealth Rock is self explanatory, Sacred Sword for Bulk uppers and similar. I used to run Stone Edge before I knew this got Roar. I havent really used either that much to date, but Roar is for Sub Disable Gengar/Sub Rooster's/Baton Pass teams.

Importable
Gengar (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt
- Giga Drain
- Shadow Ball

Conkeldurr (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch

Dragonite (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- ExtremeSpeed
- Outrage
- Fire Punch

Latios (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Heatran (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Flash Cannon

Cobalion @ Leftovers
Trait: Justified
EVs: 212 HP / 72 Atk / 192 Def / 32 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Sacred Sword
- Roar

The Biggest threat to this team is LO Starmie under Rain, Something has to die, unless Heatran is in as it comes in, but who brings Starmie in on a HP grass?
I also once got mid game sweeped by a Gorebyss. So really anything which is Water with Ice coverage and is fast kills this team.

Hope I didnt bore you with my less than imaginative English and I hope you like the team.
 
Hey nice team. First, though, on Latios, I suggest changing the moveset to Dragon Pulse / Surf / Hidden Power [Fire] / Recover. You are still able to destroy Skarmory with HP Fire and Ground types and Tyranitar get nailed by Surf. If you want more consistent damage, use Life Orb. LO + 3 Attacks is deadly, especially since Latios has access to Recovery. On Gengar, I don't really see what Focus Sash and Destiny Bond are doing for you and I guess Taunt can be helpful. Here's what I suggest changing on Gengar:
Life Orb > Focus Sash
Pain Split > Destiny Bond
Focus Blast > Giga Drain

Life Orb provides the extra punch for Focus Blast and Shadow Ball and Pain Split will heal off the damage from Life Orb recoil.

Anyways, Rotom-W looks pretty annoying. Scarfed Rotom-W under the Rain basically annihilates your team. I suggest changing Cobalion to Gastrodon. Gastrodon will take a Hydro Pump any day due to Storm Drain and proceed to status Rotom. Thankfully, most Rotom don't carry HP Grass, but be careful because of Trick. You also mentioned you had a problem with Starmie and Gastrodon helps wall that too, unless they have Psyshock, which most don't. The con of switching Cobalion to Gastrodon is you lose Stealth Rock and a Dragon-type resist. Generally, though, you should be fine because no Dragon likes a Choice Banded Extremespeed. You could change Heatran to a Special Defense set with Stealth Rock and then Latios scarfed, but test this out and see if it works good.

428.png

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Special Attack / 252 Special Defense
Sassy Nature
Moves:
- Scald
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover

Earthquake is to hit Specially Defensive Jirachi and Tyranitar. Hope I helped.
 
Hey iamQmai, nice team!

Although it's cool to see a cobalion in ou it dosen't really seem to do much in the way of checking threats. Overall you're pretty weak to Terrakion, you dont really have a solid switch in, you just have to predict weather they'll use CC / SE and if you're wrong you lose a mon. DDmence is another huge threat, seeing as your main wall is weak to both EQ and Fire Blast, and your main revenge killer has nothing to hit it with. Dragonite is another huge threat, you have 2 gound weaknesses, 2 ice weakness' and the only mons that take neutral from it's dual STABs are a frail mon and a mon that's not invested in bulk enough to repeatedly switch in on STAB EQs. Finally Dragonite really dosen't appreciate hazards.

To help remedy this, I suggest Forretress over Cobalion. Forretress is able to check all the threats listed above (maybe not salamence so much, but you can bait them into outrage with gengar then take it out with Gyro balls from Forre.) The rapid spin support is always helpful and the extra momentum with Volt switch is very helpful on a bulky offense team such as yours.

As shining latios has said above, Rotom-W is a big threat and so are Hydro Pumps under rain in general, I personally find Gastrodon not too great at taking on Rotom-W due to the ever-so-common combination of Rotom-W and Scizor, Gastrodon has to switch out everytime Scior comes in, then they U-Turn out to Rotom-W and the cycle starts all over again. Also if you replace cobalion with Gastrodon you lose rocks. So I suggest Tank Latias over your current Expert Belt Latios. Tank Latias can repeatedly take Hydro Pumps from the likes of Politoed and works as one of the most effective volt-turn breaker's in OU. Tank Latias has amazing defensive synergy with Heatran, resiting his ground, water, fighting weaknesses and Heatran reists latias' dark, dragon, bug weaknesses. The loss of speed may seem like a turn off but the only things notable your current Latios outspeeds that tank Latias dosen't are terrakion, keldeo, nape and lando. If you're wondering exactly what the speed EVs accomplish, they let Latios outspeed neutral base 100s, such as Celebi and Salamence. Latias has the added bonus of being very strong against sun and is overall just great both offensively and defensively.

Anyway I hope this rate helped and GL with the team! Luvdisk'd.

Sets:
205.gif

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef | IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch

380.gif

Latias @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 152 HP / 176 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Surf
- Recover
 
Hey,

Nice team iamQmai, but there are some big threats. Dragon Dancers such as Haxorus, Dragonite and Salamence all appear to give you trouble as they have the coverage moves to beat down both of your steel's and from there outrun your team and fire off brutal Outrage's that will maul your team to bits. Water type attackers such as the aforementioned Starmie and Rotom-W also look like they hurt as in rain, they will be doing impressive amount's of damage to your team with the sheer power of STAB Rain boosted water type attacks. Perhaps the biggest threat to your team is Shell Smash Cloyster, as it can set up on locked in Dragonite and from there, it will run through your team. Conkelldurr's Mach Punch cannot do over 50% if it has a White Herb so you can't even revenge kill the it! Also note that Jellicent can switch in on half of your team and can then threaten with Status.

Designated leads are nearly extinct in B/W, and I don't see what your Gengar set does to help your team. Destiny Bond requires awesome prediction to be utilized, and most of the time your current set won't be ending up doing much. Thats why using Sub + 3 Attacks Gengar is far better over your current set. This set capitalizes on the switches that Gengar create's, and once behind a sub he can soften up the enemy team to the point where their are enough holes left in it for Conkelldurr or somebody else come clean up what is left. Your current Gengar set doesn't do much to help the team, and can't make much of an impact on the game like the offensive one can

Looking at some of your set's a few changes could be made to make them work a bit smoother. Conkelldurr's set looks a bit off to me, as he needs special bulk to aid set up, and to avoid being hit hard by powerful special attackers. A spread of 252HP/ 76Atk/ 182SpD on Conkelldurr gives you the special bulk that Conkelldurr needs to help it set up safely, while still retaining some Attack to hit hard after only +1. Also, your current set is hard walled by Jellicent and Starmie beats it as well. Reuniclus and other bulky psychics are also hard to break through. Thats why using Payback/ Stone Edge > Ice Punch is far better for Conk. The only real thing Ice Punch has over the other 2 is Gliscor, and even than Gliscor may just only activate guts and lost itself on the process with the other 2 coverage moves. If you decide to go with Payback, then Brave > Adamant and 0SpeIV's let you get the most out of Payback.

Now for those 2 Dragon's. Dragonite's set has an easy change for it, that leaves it less vulnerable to those pesky Air Balloon Tran. This is Superpower > Earthquake for your Dnite. Superpower has more power and it hits Earthquake's targets harder than it does, while beating said Balloon tran. Anyway Latios doesn't really appreciate BoltBeam coverage nearly has much as the moves suggested by Shining Latios. Those moves allow it to achieve perfect coverage, and beat the steel's that enjoy to switch into Latios.

GL with the team, Gengar set below, I can't think of a way to check your threats without wrecking synergy ( Scarf Starmie was a good set for your team but I can't find a spot for it to go)
Gengar @ Life Orb
Nature: Timid (+Spe -Atk)
Trait: Levitate
EV's: 252SpA / 4SpD / 252Spe
Substitute/ Shadow Ball/ Focus Blast/ Thunderbolt

Current Gengar -------> Sub + 3 Attacks Gengar
252/252 Conk --------> 252HP/76Atk/182SpD
Ice Punch Conk -------> Stone Edge / Payback (Potentially Brave + 0SpeIV
Earthquake DNite ------> Superpower
Latios moves now ------> Shining Latios Moveset
Potentially Scarf Starmie if you can make it work
 
Shining Latios said:
Hey nice team. First, though, on Latios, I suggest changing the moveset to Dragon Pulse / Surf / Hidden Power [Fire] / Recover. You are still able to destroy Skarmory with HP Fire and Ground types and Tyranitar get nailed by Surf. If you want more consistent damage, use Life Orb. LO + 3 Attacks is deadly, especially since Latios has access to Recovery. On Gengar, I don't really see what Focus Sash and Destiny Bond are doing for you and I guess Taunt can be helpful. Here's what I suggest changing on Gengar:
Life Orb > Focus Sash
Pain Split > Destiny Bond
Focus Blast > Giga Drain

Life Orb provides the extra punch for Focus Blast and Shadow Ball and Pain Split will heal off the damage from Life Orb recoil.

Anyways, Rotom-W looks pretty annoying. Scarfed Rotom-W under the Rain basically annihilates your team. I suggest changing Cobalion to Gastrodon. Gastrodon will take a Hydro Pump any day due to Storm Drain and proceed to status Rotom. Thankfully, most Rotom don't carry HP Grass, but be careful because of Trick. You also mentioned you had a problem with Starmie and Gastrodon helps wall that too, unless they have Psyshock, which most don't. The con of switching Cobalion to Gastrodon is you lose Stealth Rock and a Dragon-type resist. Generally, though, you should be fine because no Dragon likes a Choice Banded Extremespeed. You could change Heatran to a Special Defense set with Stealth Rock and then Latios scarfed, but test this out and see if it works good.

428.png

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Special Attack / 252 Special Defense
Sassy Nature
Moves:
- Scald
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover

Earthquake is to hit Specially Defensive Jirachi and Tyranitar. Hope I helped.
Click to expand...
I've tried this Gengar out now, but I now have the SubSplit just incase Scizor/Tyanitar comes in i dont get owned by Pursuit. I'll probably try the Gastro out later. Although lack of rocks does seem to worry me slightly, but it does seem to fit my team nicely if I find the right changes.


The Great Mighty Doom said:
Hey iamQmai, nice team!

Although it's cool to see a cobalion in ou it dosen't really seem to do much in the way of checking threats. Overall you're pretty weak to Terrakion, you dont really have a solid switch in, you just have to predict weather they'll use CC / SE and if you're wrong you lose a mon. DDmence is another huge threat, seeing as your main wall is weak to both EQ and Fire Blast, and your main revenge killer has nothing to hit it with. Dragonite is another huge threat, you have 2 gound weaknesses, 2 ice weakness' and the only mons that take neutral from it's dual STABs are a frail mon and a mon that's not invested in bulk enough to repeatedly switch in on STAB EQs. Finally Dragonite really dosen't appreciate hazards.

To help remedy this, I suggest Forretress over Cobalion. Forretress is able to check all the threats listed above (maybe not salamence so much, but you can bait them into outrage with gengar then take it out with Gyro balls from Forre.) The rapid spin support is always helpful and the extra momentum with Volt switch is very helpful on a bulky offense team such as yours.

As shining latios has said above, Rotom-W is a big threat and so are Hydro Pumps under rain in general, I personally find Gastrodon not too great at taking on Rotom-W due to the ever-so-common combination of Rotom-W and Scizor, Gastrodon has to switch out everytime Scior comes in, then they U-Turn out to Rotom-W and the cycle starts all over again. Also if you replace cobalion with Gastrodon you lose rocks. So I suggest Tank Latias over your current Expert Belt Latios. Tank Latias can repeatedly take Hydro Pumps from the likes of Politoed and works as one of the most effective volt-turn breaker's in OU. Tank Latias has amazing defensive synergy with Heatran, resiting his ground, water, fighting weaknesses and Heatran reists latias' dark, dragon, bug weaknesses. The loss of speed may seem like a turn off but the only things notable your current Latios outspeeds that tank Latias dosen't are terrakion, keldeo, nape and lando. If you're wondering exactly what the speed EVs accomplish, they let Latios outspeed neutral base 100s, such as Celebi and Salamence. Latias has the added bonus of being very strong against sun and is overall just great both offensively and defensively.

Anyway I hope this rate helped and GL with the team! Luvdisk'd.

Sets:
205.gif

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef | IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch

380.gif

Latias @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 152 HP / 176 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Surf
- Recover
Click to expand...
As much as Rapid Spin helps, I just cant find myself liking to this Forretress. Maybe a Ferrothorn with rocks but it lacks spin support. I like the Latias, but I miss the sheer power of Latios too. I'm thinking a bulkier wish Latias might help my team too, as i find myself switching alot and needing health.

Asek said:
Hey,

Nice team iamQmai, but there are some big threats. Dragon Dancers such as Haxorus, Dragonite and Salamence all appear to give you trouble as they have the coverage moves to beat down both of your steel's and from there outrun your team and fire off brutal Outrage's that will maul your team to bits. Water type attackers such as the aforementioned Starmie and Rotom-W also look like they hurt as in rain, they will be doing impressive amount's of damage to your team with the sheer power of STAB Rain boosted water type attacks. Perhaps the biggest threat to your team is Shell Smash Cloyster, as it can set up on locked in Dragonite and from there, it will run through your team. Conkelldurr's Mach Punch cannot do over 50% if it has a White Herb so you can't even revenge kill the it! Also note that Jellicent can switch in on half of your team and can then threaten with Status.

Designated leads are nearly extinct in B/W, and I don't see what your Gengar set does to help your team. Destiny Bond requires awesome prediction to be utilized, and most of the time your current set won't be ending up doing much. Thats why using Sub + 3 Attacks Gengar is far better over your current set. This set capitalizes on the switches that Gengar create's, and once behind a sub he can soften up the enemy team to the point where their are enough holes left in it for Conkelldurr or somebody else come clean up what is left. Your current Gengar set doesn't do much to help the team, and can't make much of an impact on the game like the offensive one can

Looking at some of your set's a few changes could be made to make them work a bit smoother. Conkelldurr's set looks a bit off to me, as he needs special bulk to aid set up, and to avoid being hit hard by powerful special attackers. A spread of 252HP/ 76Atk/ 182SpD on Conkelldurr gives you the special bulk that Conkelldurr needs to help it set up safely, while still retaining some Attack to hit hard after only +1. Also, your current set is hard walled by Jellicent and Starmie beats it as well. Reuniclus and other bulky psychics are also hard to break through. Thats why using Payback/ Stone Edge > Ice Punch is far better for Conk. The only real thing Ice Punch has over the other 2 is Gliscor, and even than Gliscor may just only activate guts and lost itself on the process with the other 2 coverage moves. If you decide to go with Payback, then Brave > Adamant and 0SpeIV's let you get the most out of Payback.

Now for those 2 Dragon's. Dragonite's set has an easy change for it, that leaves it less vulnerable to those pesky Air Balloon Tran. This is Superpower > Earthquake for your Dnite. Superpower has more power and it hits Earthquake's targets harder than it does, while beating said Balloon tran. Anyway Latios doesn't really appreciate BoltBeam coverage nearly has much as the moves suggested by Shining Latios. Those moves allow it to achieve perfect coverage, and beat the steel's that enjoy to switch into Latios.

GL with the team, Gengar set below, I can't think of a way to check your threats without wrecking synergy ( Scarf Starmie was a good set for your team but I can't find a spot for it to go)
Gengar @ Life Orb
Nature: Timid (+Spe -Atk)
Trait: Levitate
EV's: 252SpA / 4SpD / 252Spe
Substitute/ Shadow Ball/ Focus Blast/ Thunderbolt

Current Gengar -------> Sub + 3 Attacks Gengar
252/252 Conk --------> 252HP/76Atk/182SpD
Ice Punch Conk -------> Stone Edge / Payback (Potentially Brave + 0SpeIV
Earthquake DNite ------> Superpower
Latios moves now ------> Shining Latios Moveset
Potentially Scarf Starmie if you can make it work
Click to expand...
I completely forgot that Superpower is now legal with Multiscale Dragonite. And I dont often find myself using EQ and when I do, SP will most likely do better damage too.
I'll also try to fit a ScarfStarmie into the team, maybe replace Gengar as I dont want 3 weaknesses to Ghost/Dark.

Thanks everyone for these sets, i'll try most if not all of them out and see what's best.
 
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