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Weavile is a time paradox [OU RMT]

True Story, brah
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Let's... let's take a trip back to early D/P - a good three years ago - when the metagame wasn't as developed as it is today. BulkyDos and Garchomp made most teams piss themselves with fear while Weavile, one of the premier Swords Dancers, made a most, if not all players pack a bulky Water to dispatch of the many Life Orb Swords Dance variants running around. In time, Stealth Rock became more popular with every team albeit suicide leads weren't as popular back then as they are now. After Garchomp's ban to the Uber tier, the metagame was really able to flourish with the advent of Swords Dance Lucario, Tentacruel, Choice Flygon and other Pokemon that were overshadowed by the omnipresence of the land shark. Weavile's usage began to plummet fast due to Lucario being the choice Swords Dancer for its ability to net many more OHKOs. Stealth Rock also became a prominent threat to Weavile's survivability since it would only be able to switch in a maximum of 5 times without a Rapid Spinner supporting it. Finally, Scizor gained Bullet Punch and fucked Weavile's usage over sans the random Swords Dance/anti-lead variants. In the current metagame however, Choice Band Weavile is in fact a potent revenge killer thanks to Pursuit and Ice Shard being very effective against the likes of Latias and Salamence. Taking those facts into account, Weavile needs a partner to be effective. Bulky Waters, Magnezone and a few other Pokemon were tested, ultimately bringing me to using Wish Vaporeon for a while; however, I soon dropped Vaporeon due to the lack of power. In better terms, Vaporeon would find herself being worn down easily against Pokemon such as Bulky Swords Dance Scizor, Metagross, Swampert and Gyarados (both Bulky and Offensive variants). I began testing Hydro Pump as opposed to Surf, but the lack in power wasn't noticeable and it was eventually dropped to to its shaky accuracy. This led me to trying out an impractical variant of Vaporeon, one that wouldn't lack in power nor bulk - Life Orb Vaporeon. Testing this variant of Vaporeon was successful, and I quickly began to become more aware of what helped and broke Vaporeon + Weavile.

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Toxic Spikes hinders Vaporeon greatly while Stealth Rock screws over Weavile; both Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock are commonly seen together. With that mind mind, a Rapid Spin user was in order. I could smack a Lum Berry onto any user of Rapid Spin in order to successfully switch in on Toxic Spikes and spin them away... that, or I could use Foretress/Claydol. I then decided to take a trip into the UU tier and found my favorite Spinner of mid-D/P: Hitmontop. Hitmontop is one of the few Rapid Spinners with the ability to find a way around Ghost types (Foretress, Claydol and Sandslash), however, Hitmontop comes with nice defensive typing, a base 120 STAB move to fire off at will and decent stat arrangement. With the correct EVs, Hitmontop would be able to switch in on the various Rotom forms without fear of any of their moves (barring a Choice Specs Thunderbolt from Modest Rotom-a) while still functioning as a decent switch in to Physical attackers not named Metagross. Though Hitmontop's typing didn't do much for the duo, it proved to be an even better Rapid Spin user that those that did - Claydol, Donphan, Tentacruel and Starmie. It should also be noted that Hitmontop is one of the best Tyranitar checks in the game.
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Three slots down, three more to go. Thus far, my team couldn't take on powerful Fighting attackers such as Breloom and Machamp out without sacrificing a member of my team. Scizor was also a pain in my side what with U-turn denting just about everything on this team. Rotom-A has the best chance against all of these Pokemon barring Spore and Payback from Breloom and Machamp respectively. In all honesty, I didn't want to use Rotom-H or Rotom-C just because their best sets to use are Choiced sets considering that their signature attacks prevent them from staying in very long. The extra Speed sounded useful at one point, but then I realized that I already had Weavile's already high Speed as well as its priority move, Ice Shard. Rotom-S entered by mind, however, it quickly became discarded from my thoughts after I realized how weak Air Slash is when compared to Rotom-A's other STAB options and how Tyranitar can switch in and essentially force Rotom-S to either take the full brunt of Pursuit and die, or take multiple Pursuits and... die. Rotom-W is worked this slot nicely as my answer to bulky Fighting types as well as Gliscor. Rotom-W also came with the luxury of not getting itself trapped by Choice Band Tyraniar which always something to look up to when using a Pokemon that's so trappable.

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The following Pokemon, were tested in the final two slots as my Lucario check and my way of getting Stealth Rock up. I don't want to get too detailed with these 5 Pokemon; however, I will say that none of them could setup Stealth Rock effectively or serve as a reliable check to Lucario. Roserade leads did a number to this team as well, usually forcing me to switch to Rotom or Hitmontop in order to take the sleep. SubChamp also showed itself to be a threat to this team and considering that it can do a major amount of damage to just about anything in OU, finding a check for it would prove to be a difficult task.

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Rather than letting Roserade, Breloom and Smeargle leads have their way with my team, I decided on using Lum Berry Metagross as a lead. Not only does this monster get up Stealth Rock roughly 90% of the time, but it serves a decent status absorber later in the game.

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So we're coming down to the climax of this team. I have the base of this team (Vaporeon and Weavile), the support to keep the duo and the rest of the team alive (Hitmontop), the utility Physical sponge (Rotom-w) and finally the reliable lead (Metagross). What's left for this team to cover? Swords Dance - Crunch Lucario for starters, 2HKOing and OHKOing just about everything on this team after a boost. What makes an effective check to a powerful threat such as Lucario? A bulky Pokemon that takes at the worst neutral damage from all attacks - this includes STAB attacks hitting a base 160+ base power - or a faster Pokemon that can deliver an OHKO while at the same time taking little to laughable damage from any priority move. In Lucario's case, Zapdos, Heatran, Gyarados, Jirachi, Salamence, Torkoal, Suicune, Gliscor, Choice Scarf Tyranitar, Moltres, Gengar, Magnezone and Uxie can all be considered checks; however, this team has a rough time dealing with Thunder Wave; most of Lucario's checks cannot deal with becoming Paralyzed. With that in mind, I'm down to only a few options: ResTalk Zapdos, Gliscor, Torkoal and ResTalk Gyarados. After showing themselves to be mere setup fodder for powerful sweepers, Zapdos and Gyarados were omitted from testing. This left me with Torkoal and Gliscor for the final slots. Both managed to do well for this team, though in the end I chose Gliscor for its ability to effectively check Lucario and lure Gengar in for Weavile to kill it off.
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At a better glance...
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Metagross @ Lum Berry ***** Bad Omen
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/236 Atk/20 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break
- Stealth Rock
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Let's admit it, Lum Berry Metagross is the best lead in OU. Metagross sports fantastic typing alongside excellent defensive and offensive capabilities. Most importantly as a lead, Metagross can learn a plethora of moves that can either cripple the opposing lead or just smash its face in. Metagross' weakness lies in its inability to take on faster (and notably frail) leads that can induce Sleep. The Lum Berry allows Metagross to take on these said leads and win unscathed. Random Burns, Paralysis and Freezes tend to screw Metagross up as well, giving the Lum Berry an even higher use. I decided to play Metagross conservatively since it synergizes very well with this team. Playing Metagross in such a manner would obviously call for Explosion to be dropped for another move. Bullet Punch allows Metagross to finish off Focus Sash users after nailing them in the face with a STAB Meteor Mash. With the rising amount of leads and switch ins to Metagross running Dual Screens, I decided to take an alternative route and run Brick Break as opposed to Earthquake. Earthquake wasn't as useful as I thought it would be - trashing the occasional Magnezone dumb enough to switch in. Beating opposing Metagross leads hasn't come to be very useful since switching to Rotom is normally the best option.

Synergy is a very important part of team building, but it can go much further than one Pokemon covering another Pokemon's type disadvantage. Covering a Pokemon's threats and switch ins effectively is great synergy to work with, it should also be mentioned that type disadvantages are commonly found with a threat to a Pokemon. In this case, Heatran and Rotom-A switch ins threaten Metagross greatly. To remedy this, I have Gliscor, Weavile and Hitmontop to pin Rotom-A down while Vaporeon and Hitmontop can rid the field of Heatran.

Since the "How to handle other leads" section is getting popular with RMTs, I'll make one for Metagross =/:

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Azelf: Meteor Mash followed by Bullet Punch as always. In the event of Dual Screen variant, Meteor Mash, Brick Break and Bullet Punch should do the trick.

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Metagross: Stealth Rock and switch to Rotom-w

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Swampert: Stealth Rock and switch to Hitmontop

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Aerodactyl: Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch

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Jirachi: Stealth Rock and scout with Brick Break. From there, Rotom-w or Hitmontop can switch in without much trouble.

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Infernape: Switch to Vaporeon, Gliscor or Hitmontop.

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Roserade: Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch

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Heatran: Switch to Vaporeon/Hitmontop

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Smeargle: Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch

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Hippowdon: Stealth Rock and switch to Hitmontop

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Tyranitar: Stealth Rock then Brick Break

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Gliscor: Switch to Rotom-w/Vaporeon

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Ninjask: Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch/switch Gliscor ad use Taunt
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Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers ***** Wherever I May Roam
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/96 Def/160 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Foresight
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
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Hitmontop was revealed to me as a Rapid Spinner while I was going through the UU-(BAN ME PLEASE) phase - when I thought that using UU Pokemon in OU would make me cool or some shit like that. For those who are actually thinking "OmGz! using OU pokemon show no skill u n00b!", you really need a reality check. The Pokemon from the lower tiers that you use in OU are OU viable. In better terms, it doesn't make you any better than a player that copies a hyper offense team and rises to 8th on the OU leaderboard if you use a team comprised mostly or entirely of... UU/NU Pokemon and raise your CRE to 1400 imo. With that in mind, Hitmontop is still a very effective contender in OU thanks to its ability, type, movepool, stat distribution and Foresight. With Foresight, Hitmontop can safely Rapid Spin against Ghosts. Foresight also keeps Hitmontop from becoming setup fodder for McGar and SubBoost Rotom. Latias switch ins usually screw Hitmontop up; however, after scouting what they can do with Toxic (Hitmontop can take just about anything from Timid Choice Specs Latias), Weavile can switch in and finish the job. SubCM Latias poses an even larger threat, which forces my to send in Rotom after Toxic fails and break its Substitute. From there, I can toss Weavile into the game and hope that is doesn't carry Hidden Power Fire (a +2 Dragon Pulse doesn't KO Weavile without SR damage so Pursuiting Latias is usually the way to go). Breloom and Machamp also pose a threat to Hitmontop, Gliscor and Rotom are pretty effective at keeping these powerhouses at bay. Furthermore, Gyarados can switch in without much trouble an attempt to setup. Vaporeon and Rotom can and preform their task of scaring Gyarados out effectively.

With Intimidate giving Hitmontop a good amount of Physical bulk, I decided to make switching into Special Attackers much less of a hassle. With the given spread, Hitmontop is never 2HKO'd by a Modest Choice Scarf Rotom-a Thunderbolt when factoring in both Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes, allowing it to either Poison it or Rapid Spin away any entry hazards that hinder Weavile's switch in. Hitmontop also takes Special Attacks from the likes of Latias, Gengar, Celebi (Tinkerbell), and Suicune much better. Once again, Intimidate prevents Pokemon that Hitmontop would be switching in on from doing a substantial amount of damage, so the loss of Defense isn't noticeable at all. Even Scizor isn't doing much with a Banded Bullet Punch after Intimidate.
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Weavile (F) @ Choice Band ***** No Love
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit
- Brick Break
- Night Slash
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Weavile was my first sweeper in D/P; Weavile was everyone's first sweeper in early D/P. It's almost heartwarming to remember the first time that I tried Weavile as a sweeper (albeit on PBR wifi). Then Lucario brings his stuff to the table with a very effective Swords Dance set, harshly reducing Weavile's already depleting usage and finally, Scizor gains Bullet Punch raping Weavile at every chance possible.

What the fuck is a Scizor anyway? Weavile is one of the most effective revenge killers in the game thanks to the Choice Band bolstering its Attack to 507 off the bat. That, combined with Weavile's STAB attacks, Ice Shard and Pursuit allow Weavile to reliably revenge Salamence, Latias, Gengar, Rotom-A, Dragonite, Starmie, Azelf and Tyranitar without much effort. Brick Break really helps his team out against Dual Screens as the Pokemon that make the attempt of hiding behind them cannot be KOed by normal mean. Low Kick was an option at one time, but it didn't net any notable KOs considering that Heatran would only switch in after Weavile KOed something. Since this team does relatively well against Hippowdon, Night Slash was chosen as the stronger STAB attack in order to prevent Weavile from becoming shorthanded against bulkier Pokemon. With the advent of Outraging Dragons came bulky Steel types in plentiful numbers. Weavile hates Steel types; Vaporeon, Gliscor, Hitmontop, Metagross and Rotom-W love taking on Steel types, hmmm. At any rate, Weavile's true hindrance lies in its inability to switch into the omnipresent Stealth Rock and with Hitmontop, Stealth Rock isn't much of a concern.

On a smaller note, my first [Jolly] Weavile was female.
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Vaporeon (F) @ Life Orb ***** Lucretia
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Hydro Pump
- Wish
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When taking into account Vaporeon's overall usage, movepool, stat arrangement, typing and ability, it's safe to say that Vaporeon is the best and most popular Eeveelution thus far (I say "thus far" since Gamefreak loves us). In the OU metagame, Vaporeon is a mixed bag of sorts thanks to its assorted but very viable moves. Wish, Protect, Hidden Power Electric, Toxic, Roar, Ice Beam and the increasingly popular Heal Bell all accompany Vaporeon's most reliable STAB, Surf. It's very common, very easy and very dangerous to underestimate Vaporeon strictly off of its moveset only because each combination of moves achieves an entirely different purpose than another combination of moves. Wish, Toxic and Protect for example, give Vaporeon longevity as well as the ability to scout the opposing Pokemon's moveset and wear them down [if possible] with poison while a combination such as Wish, Roar and Heal Bell allow Vaporeon to take on SubPetaya Empoleon without much trouble and support its team very well. Vaporeon also has a knack for appearing on Baton Pass teams as a Substitute and Acid Armor Baton Passer thanks to its amazing bulk and potential Speed boosts that are passed to it. Essentially, Vaporeon will almost always have the element of surprise.

The element of surprise is essential for the set that I'm running, as Vaporeon would not net as many KOs without it. Life Orb Vaporeon - as mentioned earlier - hits very hard while maintaining its ability to sponge hits from the likes of Gyarados and Suicune effectively. The EVs were used to optimize Vaporeon's ability to pull off a late game sweep when it can, tying at worst with max Speed Scizor who tend to get the jump on me with U-turn. Vaporeon hates being revenge killed and powerful Thunderbolts and powerful Physical hits from the likes of Lucario, Gengar, Infernape, Latias, Magnezone, Salamence, Azelf, Rotom-A and Jolteon. Gliscor and Rotom can take on Jolteon, Lucario, Magnezone and Rotom-A without much of a hassle whilst Weavile can pick off Gengar and Latias with Pursuit and if comes down to it, revenge Salamence with Ice Shard. Paralysis support from Rotom-w also prevents Vaporeon from being revenge killed by the mentioned Pokemon barring Jolteon.

If you're still doubting Vaporeon's power, I'll demonstrate the crux of what Vaporeon is going to be KOing and eventually sweeping:

Hydro Pump vs 4/0 Adamant Tyranitar: 97%- 100%
Hydro Pump vs 252/0 Adamant Tyranitar: 82%-97%
Hydro Pump vs 252/252 Calm Heatran: 91.34% - 100%
*Surf from 68 SAtk Vaporeon vs 4/0 Timid Heatran: 70.37% - 83.33%*
Hydro Pump vs 24/0 Adamant Scizor: OHKO
Hydro Pump vs 232/0 Adamant Scizor: 88.69% - 100%
Hydro Pump vs 252/0 Relaxed Swampert: 70.05% - 82.67%
Hydro Pump vs 252/252 Careful Swampert: 47.03% - 55.69%
Hydro Pump vs 252/0 Adamant Machamp: 71.83% - 84.77%
Hydro Pump vs 252 Bold Cresselia: 44.59% - 52.70%
Hydro Pump vs 4/0 Jolly Jirachi: 72.81% - 85.96%
Hydro Pump vs 4/0 Jolly Flygon: 92.17% - 100%
Hydro Pump vs 252/0 Bold Rotom-A: 76.97% - 90.79%
Ice Beam vs 252/0 Bold Celebi: 65.35% - 77.23%
Ice Beam vs 4/0 Kingdra: 53.74% - 63.35%
Ice Beam vs 252/0 Bold Zapdos: 78.85% - 92.95%
Hidden Power Electric vs 4/0 Timid Suicune: 50.29% - 59.65%
Hidden Power Electric vs 252/0 Impish Gyarados: OHKO
*Hidden Power Electric from 68 SAtk Vaporeon vs 4/0 Adamant Gyarados: 71.30% - 84.59%*
Hidden Power Electric vs 12/0 Modest Empoleon: 61.54% - 73.08%
Hidden Power Electric vs 188/0 Bold Vaporeon: 45.09% - 53.12%
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Rotom-w @ Leftovers ***** Electric Funeral
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/112 Def/144 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Will-o-wisp
- Discharge / Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
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Rotom-h is usually the primary choice of a Rotom appliance; same defenses, same typing, but it can dispatch of Steel types whom Rotom can switch into without much trouble. Who wouldn't want to use it? Rotom-h is often seen running a Choice set due to its signature move, Overheat, forcing it out very often; however, defensive sets running Will-o-Wisp and Overheat are commonly seen in OU as well.

Rotom-W is an excellent staple of a Rain Dance team since it not only gets two base 120 STAB attacks to fire off at will, but it also syncs well together with most of the common Rain Dance sweepers such as Kabutops and Ludicolo. Though as temping as it would seem to run a Rain Dance team, I decided to run Rotom-W as a utility Physical sponge since it's the only Rotom form that is not beaten by Choice Band Tyranitar or "Stallbreaker" Gliscor. Hydro Pump is the most reliable and powerful signature move sans the 85% accuracy; Hydro Pump prevents Hippowdon and Gliscor from switching in safely and without the drawback of lowering Rotom-w's Special Attack stat to a weak 123, Suicune as well as Kingdra have to be weary about switching in and attempting a setup. Speaking of Kingdra, Lum Berry Dragon Dance variants give Rotom-w problems since a +1 Outrage can easily net a 2HKO on the washing machine. Hitmontop can usually switch in, drop Kingdra's Attack stat with Intimidate and go for the 2HKO with Close Combat. If Metagross is still alive and kickin', it can switch in to just about everything Kingdra can do and wear it down with Brick Break (which actually does a decent amount of damage imo...). Gengar and Latias switch ins screw Rotom-w up badly; however, Weavile does get pretty fucking wet when Latias falls for the bait and tries to KO Rotom. Gengar is also effectively trapped and killed by Weavile.

The given EVs allow Rotom-w to outplace Jolly Tyranitar and burn it before it gets the chance to go for the OHKO with Crunch (It doesn't OHKO without 30% on Rotom and those numbers are generally easy to achieve) as well as Adamant Breloom in order to hit it with Shadow Ball/Will-o-Wisp before it Spores.

The choice of Discharge and Thunderbolt is mindfucking me hard; I can't seem to decide whether Paralysis is worth more a decent shot at beating Suicune, bulkier Gyarados and Vaporeon without much effort.
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Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers ***** Parasite
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 248 HP/40 Def/220 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Roost
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Let's face it, Gliscor is the most reliable and effective check to Lucario in the entire game. Zapdos? No. Heatran? No. Giratina? Hell no. Gliscor's Ground/Flying typing allows for it to switch in on most of what Lucario can dish out pre-Swords Dance as well Stealth Rock without much of a hassle, outplace it, and deliver a fresh OHKO with Earthquake. Keep in mind that Gliscor is only using a single move in order to effectively keep Lucario at bay - it has three other slots that it can use to its and its team's advantage. Taunt is a godsend for Gliscor, allowing it to prevent Pokemon whom are slower than it from setting up on it and attempting a sweep. Taunt also kills over most forms of stall. Gliscor's natural bulk allows it to take quite the beating - unSTABed Ice Beams, [weak] STAB Surfs and Waterfalls, powerful Stone Edges, you name it and Gliscor can take it like a champ - and come out on top with a combination of healing with Roost and attacking with Earthquake. The final moveslot can be an array of moves ranging from Toxic in order to deplete to opposition of its HP to Fire Fang in order to dispatch Scizor from the field. I decided to use U-turn since it works very nicely with Weavile's ability to trap most of Gliscor's common switch ins and Vaporeon's ability to outright wall them. Gengar for example is a common switch in to Gliscor, U-turning away to Weavile prevents it from switch in again; McGar is usually beaten by Vaporeon thanks to the lack of Thunderbolt, however with Thunderbolt, Metagross and Hitmontop are viable switch ins as well. Crocune tends to switch in on Gliscor... a lot. Rotom-w and Vaporeon can try their hand at beating Crocune, but that behemoth normally requires me to sacrifice Rotom in order to give Vaporeon a chance at beating it. With those Pokemon in mind, Kingdra, Vaporeon, Heatran and "Tinkerbell" Celebi are also threats to Gliscor. Metagross, Rotom-w, Vaporeon and Hitmontop can scare these guys out pretty easily.

I hate getting poisoned by other Gliscor before I can use Taunt. With an extra point in Speed, they can go suck on it.
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Threat List


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Legend

* = Checks vary among each moveset
Italics = Threat (can be outplayed however)
Red Italics = Overwhelming (usually requires a sacrifice)
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*Scizor: Rotom-w, Vaporeon

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Salamence: Rotom-w. Can be revenged by Weavile

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*Heatran: Hitmontop, Gliscor, Vaporeon

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Gyarados: Rotom-w, Vaporeon

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*Rotom-A: Gliscor, Hitmontop, Rotom-w

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Latias: Weavile, Metagross

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*Tyranitar: Metagross, Hitmontop, Gliscor, Rotom-w

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*Metagross: Rotom-w, Gliscor

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Lucario: Rotom-w, Gliscor

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*Infernape: Vaporeon, Gliscor

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*Jirachi: Gliscor, Rotom-w, Metagross

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*Gengar: Weavile, Metagross, Hitmontop

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*Swampert: Rotom-w, Hitmontop, Vaporeon

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*Blissey: Hitmontop, Metagross, Gliscor

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Azelf: Weavile, Metagross

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*Starmie: Weavile, Vaporeon, Rotom-w

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Gliscor: Vaporeon, Gliscor, Rotom-w

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Vaporeon: Rotom-w, Hitmontop, Vaporeon

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Magnezone: Gliscor, Rotom-w, Metagross, Hitmontop

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Zapdos: Rotom-w, Hitmontop, Zapdos

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Kingdra: Rotom-w, Hitmontop, Vaporeon, Metagross

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Breloom: Gliscor, Rotom-w

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*Machamp: Gliscor, Rotom-w, Hitmontop, Metagross

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Skarmory: Rotom-w, Gliscor, Vaporeon

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*Bronzong: Rotom-w, Gliscor, Vaporeon, Metagross

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*Celebi: Metagross, Gliscor, Hitmontop, Vaporeon, Rotom-w, Weavile

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*Flygon: Vaporeon, Gliscor, Hitmontop, Rotom-w

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*Suicune: Rotom-w, Vaporeon

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Empoleon: Vaporeon, Metagross

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*Foretress: Rotom-w, Gliscor, Vaporeon, Metagross, Hitmontop
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Legend

* = Checks will vary with Pokemon choices
Italics = Threat
Red Italics = Overwhelming (really requires me to play carefully)
Bold = Cannot be effectively checked due to common Pokemon choices (usually requires me to do some immense thinking and in most cases, outstall the theme of the team)
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Stall Teams: Gliscor, Vaporeon, Rotom-w

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*Baton Pass Teams: Gliscor, Vaporeon

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*Rain Dance Teams: Vaporeon, Metagross, Weavile

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*Hail Teams: Rotom-w, Metagross, Hitmontop, Weavile, Vaporeon

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Trick Room Teams: Vaporeon, Weavile, Gliscor, Rotom-w

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Sunny Day Teams: Gliscor, Hitmontop, Metagross, Rotom-w

Considering...

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Jolteon (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Yawn
- Hidden Power [Grass]
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Gliscor (M) @ Lum Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 248 HP/40 Def/220 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Roost
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
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Both suggested by this post.
 
Hey, this is a cool team! I like how you put a lot of effort into it, and used some unorthodox sets that look pretty good. So, the main problem is that you are pretty weak to fast stuff that can't be beaten by Weavile, e.g. Infernape, Scarftran, etc. What I want to do is free up a team slot to give you more of a defensive backbone. Right now, Gliscor and Hitmontop are the main parts of your defense, and they both beat physical attackers. Weavile helps a lot against Latias, Starmie, and Gengar, but there are still some things that give you trouble. Now, every member plays a pretty important role, but there is one place where we could cut down. If you put Stealth Rock on Gliscor over Taunt, you can replace Metagross and slide Gliscor into the lead position, freeing up a slot.

Now, our only dilemma is what to do with the slot. I want to use something with a ton of speed to kind of clean up the mess and force out stuff. I think the perfect candidate for this job is Jolteon. With Weavile Pursuit-ing Latias, and ground types being fodder for the rest of your team, Jolteon could clean up very nicely. Hitmontop covers almost everything that beats it, like Tyranitar and Blissey. The secondary Thunderbolt means that either he or Rotom will weaken the opposition enough for the other to sweep. Standard SpecsJolt looks like it'll fit the best. You don't need it taking Life Orb recoil with priority running everywhere, and you need the extra power Specs brings.

Just a little nitpick here is that I want you to use Low Kick on Weavile. It can OHKO Heatran and Blissey, and it hits stuff a lot harder in the heavier OU metagame. That's all I have, I hope they help.
 
Hm, I'll actually try out Jolteon and since it's pretty uncommon for Taunt to shut down anything that isn't checked by my other Pokemon, though without Taunt Roserade leads can shut Gliscor down with Sleep Power. I'll test Lum Berry Gliscor out since Earthquake does a minimum of 64% to 4/0 Roserade and Leaf Storm from the same Roserade isn't going to OHKO.

EDIT: I'll get to trying out Low Kick Weavile as well, but due to Weavile's frailness, I can't risk a misprediction at all =/
 
If you want to try Offensive Wish Vaporeon, I recommend this set. It is a set I made, and it has proved its worth to me =)
134.png
(F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 120 HP/252 Def/140 SpA
Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Wish

This is the set I used to great success on one of my past team (the team got to 1512 CRE). It got a lot of surprise kills, and still takes hits well. It achieves almost all the same things as your current set (though it doesn't outspeed a lot of them), and is much bulkier than yours. Currently, your set loses to Infernape, because you are 2HKOd by Close Combat, so you can't switch in. This set is just safe enough to always counter Infernape. Surf vs. Hydro Pump is the accuracy vs. power debate. With Life Orb (which isn't recommended for this Vaporeon), Hydro Pump will always 252 HP/0 SDef Scizor after Stealth Rock. If you choose Surf, automatically use Leftovers, as you aren't missing out on any KOs you don't already get. This is the first time I have recommended this
set; I hope you like it.
 
This is the set I used to great success on one of my past team (the team got to 1512 CRE). It got a lot of surprise kills, and still takes hits well. It achieves almost all the same things as your current set (though it doesn't outspeed a lot of them), and is much bulkier than yours
I don't get how that Vaporeon would net KOs any easier than my variant >_>.

Snip about the EVs, Life Orb, etc
You're not getting the point of the Life Orb or the Speed EVs. The standard 232 Spd Choice Band Scizor (Bulky Choice Band Scizor isn't OHKOed by the spread you suggested) can switch in and take off a chunk of HP with U-turn, 252 in Speed prevents that from happening for the most part. The Life Orb allows Vaporeon to net a lot more 2HKOs on very bulky Pokemon, namely the 2HKO on Cresselia and 252/252 Careful Swampert when Stealth Rock is factored in. Vaporeon still takes unboosted hits very well, giving less of a reason to run Leftovers and a spread that takes away from Speed over what I have now. The loss of a bit of bulk isn't very noticeable, but the loss in power is.

Also on a smaller note, I made no comment about not liking the accuracy of Hydro Pump on Life Orb Vaporeon.
 
Hey there. I think your team is OK, but it could do with some changes.

First of all, I would definitely put taunt over u-turn on gliscor. Right now your team is quite stall weak, but having taunt can really break your opponent's rhythm with stall. you can then force them to bring in their rotom possibly and pursuit kill it with weavile. I think this change is quite important to your team, so definitely pull the trigger.

All the other changes I ahve in mind are pretty minor ones. On Vappy, run protect over ice beam. It really helps with its overall bulk and makes near impossible to kill. Metagross doesn't need brick break at all. It can do the same things with MM. If you're worried about heatran, just run EQ. Explosion is the other option and it can be quite useful. Finally, I don't really like the rotom set you're running. I think the sub charge set does the same things much better. Good luck.
 
AOn Vappy, run protect over ice beam. It really helps with its overall bulk and makes near impossible to kill. Metagross doesn't need brick break at all. It can do the same things with MM. If you're worried about heatran, just run EQ. Explosion is the other option and it can be quite useful. Finally, I don't really like the rotom set you're running. I think the sub charge set does the same things much better. Good luck.

Protect was an option on this set at one time, however Celebi and Kingdra tend to switch in on Vaporeon. I don't want Vaporeon to be "impossible to kill" since it's really suited for sweeping late game. On Metagross:

Me said:
With the rising amount of leads and switch ins to Metagross running Dual Screens, I decided to take an alternative route and run Brick Break as opposed to Earthquake. Earthquake wasn't as useful as I thought it would be - trashing the occasional Magnezone dumb enough to switch in. Beating opposing Metagross leads hasn't come to be very useful since switching to Rotom is normally the best option.

I didn't find much use in Earthquake at all since it required prediction in order to net a solid KO >_>. With Brick Break, Dual Screeners can get the hell out. SubCharge Rotom can't beat Scizor, Lucario, Tyranitar or any powerful Physical threat effectively since it loses that well needed bulk =/.

Also:
C_13 said:
hitmontop must use rapid spin, close combat, stone edge and toxic or sucker punch, metagross it is better with eartquake most leads can counter you, and use these evds on vaporeon 120 HP/252 Def/140 SpA

Reading is more fun than you think.

With Foresight, Hitmontop can safely Rapid Spin against Ghosts. Foresight also keeps Hitmontop from becoming setup fodder for McGar and SubBoost Rotom.
Stone Edge does laughable damage to Gyarados and Salamence. The reason for Vaporeon's EVs is right here.
 
Oxymentus said:
It doesn't make you any better than a player that copies a hyper offense team and rises to 8th on the OU leaderboard if you use a team comprised mostly or entirely of... UU/NU Pokemon and raise your CRE to 1400 imo.

lol. Poor 1338.

Anyway, I like the team. The only thing I would change is Vaporeon's ev spread. max speed is sort of useless, as Scizor and Tyranitar. The only common things in that range, will generally either use very little or no speed. Jolly Tyranitar will outrun any non-timid Vaporeons too, so it seems that you would benefit from more def with less speed. I think that something along the lines of 64 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Def / 12 Speed Modest allows you to be just as powerful but gives you a lot more physical bulk while still beating 8 speed Scizor, which will allow you to tank much more effectively. The number of things that you don't outspeed by using this spread is not enough to not use it.

Alternatively, 172 Speed EVs beat Defensive Suicune and Rotom-H. There are a lot of good speed numbers to hit, but I think that you should invest at least some speed in bulk instead. Anything you can put in Def will make Vappy way bulkier.
 
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