Weepinbell (NU Mini) [QC 0/2]

[5Dots]

Crying cuz’ I’m a weeping bell
[OVERVIEW]
Weepinbell is able to carve a small niche as one of the few users of the coveted "Double Powder" combination, crippling foes with both sleep and paralysis. Unlike its competitors Venomoth and the rare Butterfree, Weepinbell boasts notable offensive presence with a fairly STAB Razor Leaf, being able to force out Pokemon like Blastoise, Kabutops, and Kingler. Lastly, it is one the few users in the tier to utilize Wrap effectively, racking up chip damage and giving pivoting opportunities to fellow pivots like Charizard and Rapidash.

However, Weepinbell’s poor defensive stats causes it to be 2HKOed by most super effective attacks. To make matters worse, Fire- and Psychic-types are extremely common, which limits its role in spreading status. Its low Speed causes it to rely on paralysis support to land an attack or one of its status moves, as otherwise it can be severely damaged or outright KOed. Weepinbell also faces severe competition from Venomoth as a double Powder user, as its much higher Speed enables it to crucially speed tie with Mr. Mime, while Exeggcute is able to more reliably cripple Mr. Mime and Drowzee thanks to being resistant to Psychic rather than weak to it. As a result, while Weepinbell has some utility with its offensive presence and status, its low stats across the board makes it a fringe pick at best.

[SET]
name: Mixed Wrapper
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Stun Spore
move 3: Razor Leaf
move 4: Wrap

[SET COMMENTS]

Sleep Powder effectively puts Fire-types like Charizard, Rapidash, and Ninetales out of commission, deterring them from switching in. After Sleep Powder has been successfully utilized, Stun Spore can be used for paralysis support, allowing it to now outspeed Pokemon like Blastoise, the aformentioned Fire-types, and Seadra. Razor Leaf is its strongest STAB attack, threatening out the likes of Golem and Kingler. Wrap enables Weepinbell to pivot out of bad matchups and build up chip damage. Wrap works especially well against paralyzed teams, enabling it to pivot against paralyzed foes like Clefable and Mr. Mime. Weepinbell can then pivot into other partial trappers like Charizard, Rapidash, and Dragonair. Swords Dance is an option over Stun Spore to rack up more damage output from Wrap.

Weepinbell’s access to STAB Razor Leaf in addition to Stun Spore can pressure Water-types, enabling Fire-types like Charizard, Rapidash, and Ninetales to have a much easier time pivoting or wallbreaking. Charizard and Rapidash form a pivoting core with Fire Spin, racking up chip damage to wear foes down. Weepinbell can also use its defensive typing to pivot into Venomoth’s Mega Drain and Toxics from Blastoise and Seadra. Pokemon that can shield Weepinbell from Fire-types, like Blastoise and Kingler, can stomach Fire Spins. Blastoise can use Toxic to deter Fire Spin users from pivoting, while Seadra can force switches and set up with Agility. Paralysis support from Mr. Mime and Clefable also is important to help Weepinbell go on the offensive.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[5Dots, id]]
- Quality checked by: [[name, id], [name, id]]
- Grammar checked by: [[name, id]]

 

[pac]

I've used this fucker a bit so I can help give some notes.

notes

OVERVIEW

Positives

• Sleep Powder + Stun Spore, and its the only mon with a Sleep move more accurate than Hypnosis thats act really threatening offensively
• only viable Razor Leaf user
  • Explain how Razor Leaf is relevant, note these calcs below for ref.
    • Weepinbell Razor Leaf vs. Blastoise on a critical hit: 234-276 (64.8 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
      Weepinbell Razor Leaf vs. Golem on a critical hit: 602-708 (165.8 - 195%) -- guaranteed OHKO
      Weepinbell Razor Leaf vs. Seadra on a critical hit: 216-254 (69 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
      Weepinbell Razor Leaf vs. Poliwhirl on a critical hit: 318-374 (95.4 - 112.3%) -- 71.8% chance to OHKO
      Weepinbell Razor Leaf vs. Kabutops on a critical hit: 531-624 (164.3 - 193.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• one of two viable Wrap users (other being Dragonair)
  • With paralysis support, Weepinbell is a demon. Wrap + RL is deadly
• useful Toxic immunity

Negatives

• slower than Blastoise
• fears paralysis due to this, while also requiring paralysis support
• gets obliterated by Fire, Ice, and Fearow
  • Charizard Fire Blast vs. Weepinbell: 260-306 (78 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Blastoise Blizzard vs. Weepinbell: 173-204 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Fearow Drill Peck vs. Weepinbell: 245-288 (73.5 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[SET]
name: Double Powder (perhaps make this "Mixed Wrapper" since Double Powder doesnt describe really why u use Weepinbell)
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Stun Spore
move 3: Razor Leaf
move 4: Wrap


[SET COMMENTS]

Paragraph 1: Talk about Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, Razor Leaf, Wrap.

Paragraph 2: Talk about ur Other Options. I'd say to mention Swords Dance, Double-Edge, and Toxic.

Paragraph 3: Talk about teammate options. Weepinbell owning Waters enables Fires and Toise, Weepinbell owning Grounds enables Trode, its typing lets it pivot around Toxic and Moth Mega Drain. Lots u can do here!

 

[5Dots]

Finally opening up this to QC!…sorry for taking so long to do so.

 

[Volk]

Howdy! Let's take a gander here.

Footnotes:

I think you want to get rid of this.

Weepinbell is able to carve a small niche as one of the few users of the coveted "Double Powder" combination, enabling it to cripple checks like Moltres, Charizard, and Rapidash.

This is kind of a weird sentence. It makes it seems like the Double Powder is only for these particular Pokemon, which isn't really true. Like Weepinbell will try to status whatever it can safely, which really can be anything. Also, Weepinbell is realistically only hitting these targets on a switch because it isn't exactly willing to stay in against these foes.

Unlike its competitors Venomoth and the rare Butterfree, it is able to force out the likes of Blastoise and Kingler with access to STAB Razor Leaf, giving it some offensive presence.

I would reorder this sentence. I would say: something like: "Unlike its competitors Venomoth and the rare Butterfree, Weepinbell is a notable offensive presence, being able to force out Pokemon like Blastoise, Kabutops, and Kingler with a fairly powerful STAB Razor Leaf."

Lastly, it is the sole user in the tier to utilize Wrap effectively, racking up chip damage and giving pivoting opportunities to fellow pivots like Charizard and Rapidash.

This is just not true. For one thing, Weepinbell isn't unique in carrying partial-trapping. But even if we reduce the definition exclusively to Pokemon who carry Wrap, Dragonair is an arguably superior Pokemon that pretty much always runs Wrap. Arbok is also not much more or less viable than Weepinbell and will always run Wrap.

To make matters worse, Fire- and Psychic-types are extremely common, while Water-types like Blastoise and Poliwhirl often carry Ice-type coverage to deter Weepinbell from easily switching in.

This is a bit of a nitpick, but this makes it seem like Blastoise and Poliwhirl run Ice-type moves for Weepinbell, which just isn't really the case. Ice-type moves are generally used more for Pokemon like Exeggcute and Fearow or for engaging in Freeze wars. Also, Ice-type moves are actually pretty rare on Poliwhirl these days to my understanding.

Its low Speed causes it to rely on paralysis support to land an attack or one of its status moves, as otherwise it can be severely damaged or outright KOed.

Another nitpick, but this is a tad confusing. Weepinbell can't exactly rely on paralysis to use its status moves; if a Pokemon is already paralyzed, it won't be vulnerable to status moves. I'd also explicitly mention Wrap here in some way because I think Weepinbell will generally Wrap a paralyzed target before anything else, unless it knows it can get a KO.

Weepinbell also faces severe competition from Venomoth as a double Powder user, as its Bug typing allows it to take neutral damage from Ice-type moves, while Exeggcute is able to more reliably cripple Mr. Mime and Drowzee thanks to being resistant to Psychic rather than weak to it.

Venomoth is also just a lot faster and a bit bulkier. The 90 Base Speed is what makes Venomoth relevant; the typing is just a small plus (and arguably isn't even that good). Weepinbell is also technically competing with Drowzee, because it too has dual status, though in the form of Thunder Wave and Hypnosis.

[OVERVIEW]

It might be worth mentioning somewhere in the Overview that Weepinbell isn't exactly standard in NU. While it has a lot of very valuable tools, its stats (especially its Speed; this thing is slower than even Clefable) are just too low for it to function consistently in this meta. I don't think I'm too critical if I say Weepinbell is a D Rank at best.

Razor Leaf is its strongest STAB attack, threatening out the likes of Golem and Kingler.

Why is this here? You already mentioned Razor Leaf's calculations at the start of the paragraph and then this one is just kind of chucked in randomly.

Wrap enables Weepinbell to pivot out of bad matchups and build up chip damage.

I know Weepinbell isn't great, but I'd give a little more detail here. Like maybe give a few example scenarios of what Weepinbell can pivot against to keep up momentum. Describe what teammates might appreciate the free switch. Explain how Weepinbell can pressure a heavily paralyzed team. Just two or three extra sentences would be nice here.

Thanks to Weepinbell’s access to STAB Razor Leaf, it can force Golem and Water-types out like Kingler, Blastoise, and Seadra, enabling Fire-types to have a much easier time pivoting or wallbreaking.

You've named most of these calculations already. You can probably just say that Weepinbell can pressure Water-type Pokemon with Stun Spore and Razor Leaf to enable Fire-type partners, such as [name the Fires of NU].

Weepinbell scaring out Golem also helps Electrode get onto the field more safely.

Does it though? Like unless your opponent just keeps Golem in against Weepinbell, which they almost never will, Golem will just switch out. As soon as Electrode comes onto the field, Golem can come out right after, so it isn't exactly safe for Electrode to come out. The only real perk here is that Electrode could potentially bait Golem to come out and the Weepinbell user could double switch to it and punish the Golem.

Weepinbell can also use its defensive typing to pivot into Venomoth’s Mega Drain and Toxics from Blastoise and Seadra.

This is kind of a weird example. Considering Venomoth is faster than Weepinbell, has access to Psychic, and is generally considered a low-value Pokemon once it spreads status (which I'm assuming it has already here; if not, Venomoth would just use Sleep Powder for free here), this isn't exactly huge for the Weepinbell user. Like best case scenario here, you land Sleep Powder on a Venomoth at the cost of about 45% of your Weepinbell's health. Not exactly a great trade if you ask me.

Pokemon that can shield Weepinbell from Fire-types, like Blastoise and Kingler, can stomach Fire Spins.

I think you forgot to say something in this sentence.

Blastoise can use Toxic to deter Fire Spin users from pivoting, while Seadra can force switches and set up with Agility.

Either can also just use Surf.

I'll leave it at that for now. Implement these things and I'll take another look. Hopefully nothing here comes off as too mean, I just prefer to be direct when going through these things. Cheers!