"what a shitty offense team lol"

[lolzerz]

Azelf @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Explosion

Leadzelf; I feel she gives me the best chance of setting up rocks (and preventing rocks from the other team, too), but lately she’s failed as of late. If ever I take out Metagross for Salamence, would Aerodactyl be the better choice here, being faster?

Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Ice Fang

Jolly and max Spd because I’m paranoid about speed ties. And because I don’t think I’ll be switching this in unless I’m absolutely sure they won’t predict, or when another pokemon’s been killed. The 3 attacking moves provide extensive enough coverage, imo. Empoleon resists all 3 moves, but I don’t think it’s substitutes will be able to take +1 Waterfalls/SEs (and the fact that they probably won’t use Empoleon to counter Gyarados unless they’re really desperate.)


Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Fire Punch
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

I send this in on say, a Scizor Bullet Punch (after being revenge killed), and Swords Dance. Watching Swampert/Vaporeon/whatever die to a +2 CC expecting to laugh at a fire move their way is funny. I’m not sure, but I think even without SR, a +1 SE is still a KO on Gyarados/Mence. Should I use Blaze Kick instead of Fire Punch? Seems to me that goes better with the “weaken counters” thing, doing as much damage as possible, and it will probably get some OHKOs on really bulky things that Fire Punch won’t. (Gliscor maybe? I remember Fire Punch doing 60% or something, and Blaze Kick has a ~70 base power advantage over Fire Punch when considering STAB)


Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack

I love double priority; it’s saved me a few times against random defensive Zapdos. Anyway, between Infernape, Scizor, and Lucario, each SDing up on switches, weakening each other’s counters, this should have no problem sweeping lategame. Superpower I guess is for predicting weakened Heatrans, and to hit Skarmory as it tries to phaze me out.


Metagross @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 112 HP/252 Atk/12 Def/132 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Agility
- Meteor Mash
- Thunderpunch
- Explosion

Here is where I’m having problems; Explosion to take out even more counters, obviously, but I’m thinking about Earthquake instead (for more coverage against steels). And also, it’s frustrating when I get ape in on a Scizor BP, SD on the switch, and face a Starmie. If I have SR up they’ll usually just Rapid Spin on the expected switch, which I can predict most of the time, but that’s pretty unreliable (plus, if I don’t have SR up…). So I’m thinking; what about Salamence in this slot? My reasoning is because if it packs Surf/Tbolt, or Surf/IceBeam, or Tbolt/IceBeam then it loses to Salamence, Gyarados, Infernape, respectively, after it’s killed something. If it has all three then it’s lacking either Rapid Spin or Recover, and as a last ditch attempt I can send in Lucario at full health, SD, and ES for the kill.


Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Extremespeed
- Close Combat
- Crunch

We all know what this does. Used Bullet Punch for a while in the last spot because Gengar can switch in on the SD and Focus Blast for the KO, but it hasn’t worked out in the long run. Crunch seems useful for the Rotoms, but if they’re Scarfed they outspeed me and OHKO. That does allow me a free setup turn, but I’m wondering if Ice Punch would be better here.


Overview (forgoing a threats list because the strategy against any threat is pretty much the same – don’t let it switch in. If it happens to switch in, I’ll set up on it) – not a lot of things can switch in safely (for example, Mence/Dos will get OHKO’ed by +1 SE from Infernape, lose to my own Gyarados if I DD on the switch, Scizor/Metagross dents them enough to come into Lucario’s ES KO range, etc.) However, I do acquiesce that those two, plus Gliscor and a host of other things can come in on Lucario, which is why I don’t reveal him until later, unless the situation calls for it.
My main concern is Starmie, really; it easily comes in on whatever ape does, and from there I just lose a pokemon or have to pray it doesn’t 2HKO Metagross so I can Thunderpunch/Explode/whatever. Of course if they’re using Starmie as a check against both Gyara/Ape, +1 SE and SR do a lot of damage on the switch, which opens up things for Infernape. Of course smarter players won’t be so inclined to switch in their Starmies early (and I can’t rely on the presence of SR luring them out early), so I need some help here.

Perhaps Sala over Gross to remedy this, as I’ve pondered earlier in the post?

Yeah basically getting this rated because it got called shitty, and I want to improve >_>

 

[Anachronism]

you have a very good team going there, very stathakis-style.

His style is considered to be one of the better styles, and it emphasizes switching and predicting as little as possible, using several pokes with the same counters to wear them down, allowing one of them to sweep. I think that a different lead that doesn't explode would be better for this purpose. Preventing the opponent from setting up SR isn't too important since this team won't switch nearly as much as bulky teams.

I think that 4/6 of your team is very good. Standard, but good. I would take Explosion off of Metagross and exchange it with earthquake so that you can improve your coverage, and explosion causes double switches, which usually ends up leading to too much prediction. You could also add some more speed evs if you wanted in order to outspeed stuff like choice scarf rotom after agility, etc. Its up to you what you want to outspeed, but I wouldn't change my nature to outspeed anything.

You can't really mess around with most of the other sets you have, but I think that Azelf should be replaced for a physical lead. Explosion promotes double switches (not good), and this is walled by different things than the rest of the team, which sounds good, but is not for this style.

A lead that sets up Stealth Rock isn't even necessary but it is recommended, and stopping your opponent's Stealth Rock is even less important, considering how little this team switches.

I also think that sd ape needs to go. It lacks resistances, which this team needs desperately in order to set up. Along that vein, I would recommend either just using mixape, or replacing Ape for Salamence, which you wanted to add anyway. I think that Mence is one of the more effective things on these types of teams, so you will want it.

I would use:

Mence @ Life Orb
max attack, max speed, naive/adamant (your call here)
Outrage
Earthquake
Fire Blast
Dragon Dance

Making this change also frees you up to use a better lead: LeadApe

LeadApe is great for this team. It sets up rocks, usually kills the other lead, and can occasionally get an encore off, allowing for a near-guaranteed set-up. It is also useful occasionally for breaking set-up sweepers that love to come in on ape, like curseput, dd mence, dd kingdra, and cm suicune (I have used him to beat all of those guys).

My LeadApe is:
@Focus Sash
64Atk/252SpA/192 Spe Naive
Fire Blast
Close Combat
Encore
Stealth Rock

You could use fake out or vacuum waave somewhere on their too.

Those are my suggestions, and hopefully they will make your team work a little better together. You said that you were having trouble with Starmie?
The only way to beat fast sweepers that don't need setup, like starmie, gengar, azelf, etc. would be to replace something with dd tyranitar.

 

[august]

This is almost exactly a team I rated earlier <_< In any case, I'll give the same advice I gave the other user.

I would just max speed on AgiliGross. Maxing Speed means your sitting on 478 Speed after an Agility, outspeeding standard Scarf Jirachi, Scarf Mence, Scarf Tran, Scarf Rotom (just in case its weakened), Scarf Moltres and basically anything short of +Spe max Speed base 100s with a Scarf. This can be useful because the majority of mons i mentioned up there can be somewhat effective for revenge killing Metagross, and shutting down a teams main way of countering Metagross means that they're going to have trouble against mons that play similarly to Metagross. Lets say that ScarfMence is being used to check Gyarados since Stone Edge OHKOs after SR. ScarfMence can also be a good AgiliGross check providing its somewhat weakened before Mence comes in. If Metagross outspeeds and OHKOs Salamence, the opposing Gyara check is gone and you can run through the team. Thats the point of suicide offense, am i right?

No point in using Jolly on Crunch SDLuke except for maybe not having to rely on a speed tie against other Lucario. The raw power of Adamant is much perferred when using Crunch, and the only reason Ice Punch uses Jolly is to outpace 280 Speed Gliscor, which i find overrated since you have Gyara anyway. Using Jolly also weakens your Extreme Speed. Adamant Lucario should be used as it has a stronger Extreme Speed which could come in handy against DDGyara that is weakened, and Adamant has 700 Attack after a Swords Dance, while Jolly has 638. Those 62 points will make a large difference against things like Hippowdon, where with Jolly you could miss the KO by a few points.

 

[lolzerz]

@Anachronism: Did what you said, lead with Ape now, and added Mence. We'll see how that goes, haha. I think that's a solid point - I'll be switching very little anyway (like after something's died, etc), so preventing rocks should be of lesser concern. I guess I'll just get around it with careful planning.

@august: I initially thought of going max atk/max spd on gross but wanted to see if some bulk would help; but as you've pointed out the merits of max spd seem far better. Scarved +Spe base100s? That sounds like pretty good company, seeing as how my sweep once got stopped by a low health, Scarf Zapdos

And as for luke - I may have grossly overestimated the loss of 62 points of Attack in the long run.

Thanks to both for the rates!