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What's this? The Tortoise won?

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Spirelord

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I've always had the thought of a Trick Room team in the back of my mind, and now I'm willing to make it. it's one piece of work that needs a lot more work, and so I hope I can really revamp it and make it successful here.

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Starmie @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 168 HP, 60 Def, 64 Sp-Att, 216 Speed

- Trick Room
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thuderbolt

I really, really, really do not want to resort to the predictable, overused, unoriginal Bronzong lead, so I'm going for a little surprise. Starmie can easily take out any common leads, leaving room for an easy Trick Room setup. Although Trick Room doesn't benefit her, Starmie can operate without it, and completes the team's type coverage.
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Relicanth @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head
Nature: Brave
EVs: 252 Att, 252 Def, 6 Sp-Def

- Head Smash
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Double Edge

What is more underestimated than an ancient old fish? This thing packs a punch. It's ability is so perfect for it with Head Smash and Double Edge, and a STAB Head Smash without the recoil is just too good to not try out. Life Orb will allow him to use any of his moves freely with a significant boost to his attack.

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Bronzong @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP, 129 Att, 129 Sp-Def

- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Hypnosis
- Explosion

Plain and simple: Put opponent to sleep, set up Trick Room, Gyro Ball for massive damage, and explode when health is almost depleted. Lum Berry will keep Bronzong efficient and standing strong, and with Explosion, Leftovers doesn't really seem to be of any use.

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Rampardos @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
Nature: Brave
EVs: 252 Att, 252 HP, 6 Def

- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Hammer Arm

All out sweeper. He's eerily similar to Relicanth, but he has his differences. With Trick Room activated, there's nothing stopping this beast. EQ is so deadly with this thing it goes unsaid. Stone Edge brushes fliers aside. There's also STAB'd Stone Edge which is guaranteed to KO almost anything.

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Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 196 HP, 136 Sp-Def, 96 Sp-Att, 82 Def

- Air Slash
- Aura Sphere
- Roost
- Shadow Ball

Togekiss would be a much wanted helper, with good defenses and a great selection of special attacks to compliment Starmie and make the team not so relied on the physical battering rocks' ground and rock type attacks. I believe she would be a better contender for the special sweeper spot than Slowbro or Slowking.

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Uxie @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP, 240 Def, 18 Sp-Def

- Yawn
- Trick Room
- U-Turn
- Reflect

Once I know what all my opponent's pokemon are, I'll use Uxie for further Trick Rooming. Uxie will Yawn to force a switch, set up Trick Room, then U-Turn to Rampardos or Relicanth, whichever one is still alive by the endgame, so that they can hopefully finish off the other team in the three moves that they have before Trick Room dies off.

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These are some substitutes I made for both a Trick Roomer and a Trick Room Sweeper. I think if I splash them around from time to time it will make the team more fun and variable.

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Shedinja @ Focus Sash/Lum Berry?
Ability: Wonder Guard
Nature: Brave
EVs: 252 Att, 252 HP, 6 Def

- Shadow Claw
- X-Scissor
- Aerial Ace
- Swords Dance

HP EVs for the lulz. Really, 252 Attack is all the EVs this dead bug needs. Switching into a pokemon that can't kill it, Shedinja can get a free boost of attack during the opponent's switch. After that, with Trick Room on his side, he can sweep very easily. I absolutely love Shedinja, and I had to make my favorite pokemon at least a substitute on this team. Trick Room redeems its otherwise horrid ability in battle, and so I couldn't resist. It can serve as a risky substitute for Relicanth or Rampardos. If only Shedinja could learn Pursuit or U-Turn, it would be so much better. -_-
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Smeargle @ Focus Sash (lvl 1)
Ability: Own Tempo
Nature: Brave (He's very brave indeed)
EVs: None Needed

- Trick Room
- Spore
- Endeavor
- Dragon Rage

Credit goes to Dragonites for this superbly wonderful Smeargle. If I want to have a little risky fun, I'll use him as my lead or as a substitute for one of the Trick Roomers. This will catch a few off guard. Smeargle sets up Trick Room as its first move. By the end of the first turn, the opponent has most likely attacked it and left it with 1 HP. Now it's the next turn, and Trick Room is in effect. The impossibly slow Smeargle goes first, putting the opponent to sleep, uses Endeavor, then Dragon Rage to finish it off. If the opponent switches out as I use Endeavor, that's even better. I can finish off this new pokemon the very next turn. It's as gimicky as F.E.A.R. Rattata, but it's virtually unknown and would be the last thing anyone up against a Smeargle would expect. It will only work once, but the surprise it gives the opponent will be worth it. Even though he has a Brave Nature, he'll be having a rather high speed in lvl 100 battles, so he might not work out against slower pokes (tanks?), and I probably will have to use him only in Free Lvl battles.

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That is my team. I really am looking forward to any advice and suggestions on how to improve it. Thanks in advance. ^_^
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Linkrocks1972 said:
Just a note on the Substitutes;

Shedinja is not good for OU, due to Sandstorm, Stealth Rocks etc.
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And this is why you'd give him focus sash.

But as for the team, it's a lot of strange gimmicky Pokemon put into a trick room team... and that's what makes it cool:)

For Dusknoir, I'd go for Thunderpunch, because if you lose Rampardos and Relicanth... you'll be in trouble without a physical sweeper. So It'd be better for this team.
Waterfall over Aqua Tail on Relicanth is a better way to go. You can affford a 10 BP drop for more accuracy on a good CBer like this. Life orb is okay, but for teams like this, attack power should be a priority.

On your bronzong, you're best off running lum berry. Life orb is just... ass.
Unless you plan to sweep with it... hell I'll try that! Sweeping TR Bronzong. add a CB for more fun.

But in all honesty, It's a generic set, but it works well on your team.
For slowking use these EVs: 212 HP / 44 Def / 252 SpA
as for it's moveset, use:
Surf
Trick Room/Slack Off
Ice Beam (You REALLY need some dragon control.)
Grass Knot

I can't say much about that shuckle set, seeing as I never used it before, but it's awfully intriguing. I think i'll use it alongside my CB Bronzong.
 
First of Rampardos is to frail to be using anything except for a scarf or sash. Second you said you have Crunch for levitators, but Rampardos has Mold Breaker which lets him use Earthquake on Pokemon with Levitate ability so Crunch would be unnecessary. I say you go

Rampardos@ Focus Sash
Brave
252 Hp/252 Atk/4Def
-Swords Dance
-Head Smash/Stone Edge
-Earthquake
-Endeavor

This allows you a free SD, powering up your massive attack even higher. You might want Stone Edge over Head Smash but its not that big of decision they both have gay accuracy and both are strong, both will end up fucking you over if it misses. Earthquake makes perfect use of your ability and Endeavor is a last ditch resort to hurt anything coming in as much as possible if trick room gives out after a kill.
 
shuckle plan would not work very well. lets say you just sent in shuck on any pokemon. suckle is faster so it uses power trick first. oh wait thats right after power trick shuckle is a sitting duck. it has too low hp to take any hit without its monster def. the only way that would work is if you switched in on something completely useless like a pidgey.
 
Thanks for all the helpful advice!

Although I'll miss Aqua Tail, I guess that accuracy will benefit me in the long run than +10 BP. I'm reluctant to put a CB on Relicanth though, since it would limit his moves, forcing me to switch out frequently, and when you only have three moves with Trick Room in effect to do some damage, every move counts. Though if I can kill at least one pokemon with a KO or near 2KO at the sacrifice of only using one move, it'll be worth it.

I was planning to use the Life Orb to boost the power of Explosion, but I see that that's a bit of a waste of an item, so I'll stick with Lum Berry. Bronzong has to set up Trick Room, and he can use Toxic and Gyro Ball after that for good succession, so I don't like the prospect of limiting him with CB.

As for Slowking, man I really want Slack Off and Calm Mind, making a tank looks so inviting, but that would limit him to only one offensive move and as my only special sweeper I can't allow that. I'll go with that set, it looks like it will help the team out with most of its weaknesses.

Oh, you're right Eersnot! I was typing this up around midnight last night and I'm sure I overlooked his ability. The SD strategy I'm willing to try out even if it means I'll have to drop Head Smash for Stone Edge since Head Smash would surely kill him, but the Endeavor is what I'm kind of shaky on. Rampardos will have three turns to utterly sweep everything, and he will need a good amount of type coverage to ensure a KO on anything that switches in. Though on the last Trick Room turn, if I'm in a pinch, Endeavor sounds like a good last-minute way to cripple something Rampardos can't beat even with his amazing attack. I'll need some more persuasion to fully consider it though. Not much can stand up to an EQ or a STAB Stone Edge with 900+ attack backing it up.

You're right too, Overlord. I guess that scenario didn't cross my mind. I figured that the opponent would want to switch out to something that could kill off Shuckle during the turn it does Power Trick. I could always switch in on a tank or a sweeper that's upping its stats, such as a SDing Lucario and whatnot.
 
As with most Trick Room teams, a huge problem you are going to face is that all of your Pokemon setting it up are of the Ghost or Psychic type, leading to problems with Dark attacks.

A Tyranitar can come in and Pursuit or Crunch your Dusknoir and Slowking to death, and your Bronzong will not last long either being 2HKO'd by a Choice Band Crunch. Heracross will have fun with this team as well with Pursuit and STAB Megahorn, especially considering none of your Trick Roomers can do much back.

There are a few things you can do to somewhat lessen your weakness.

On your Dusknoir, I'd go with Will-o-Wisp and Fire Punch over Toxic and ThunderPunch. Will-o-Wisp will make Tyranitar think twice about switching in, and is generally going to be more useful than Toxic. This will not help with Heracross though who receives a boost, which is why Fire Punch is there.

With Bronzong, go with the standard spread. You have two sweepers in Relicanth and Rampardos waiting to tear shit up, Bronzong is better suited for defensive support. I'd suggest Hypnosis over Toxic too. In a Trick Room team, you tend to want to sweep your opponents rather than waiting for poison to take down opponents, and sleep is always useful.

And lastly, try Porygon2 over Slowking, with Trick Room/Recover/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam. I have used it personally in a Trick Room team, it works wonders as a Gyara/Dragon counter, and lets you set up Trick Room without being a Psychic or Ghost Type.

There are a couple other things you can try, but you're probably sick of reading this already. :) For example, a Uxie or another slow U-turner can help get your frail sweepers in, especially Rampardos.

Oh, and definitely replace Shuckle for something else. It rarely ever works, and the coverage overlaps with Rampardos to a certain extent anyways.
 
Wow, I never thought about the Dark type problem. When I look at the Trick Roomers it does seem like something that needs to be addressed. Although I like Slowking, A Porygon2 would be helpful.

Dusknoir I will look into. Thunderpunch would help against the water types that this team won't do so well against, but there's Porygon-Z for that, and Fire Punch will kill off any Bronzong leads that might try to take advantage of the Trick Room strategy.

You have a point with Bronzong. He's more of a tank that's just there to set up Trick Room and make things easier for the team, so I guess Hypnosis will be good with him.

The U-Turner looks appealing (if only Shedinja learned it!). I'll see if I can take out Shuckle for one. Shuckle's Power Trick is so neat, but I see that Rampardos does a better job of sweeping than he does.

Thanks for the help, Winto. You're always commenting on my teams. :)
 
Ok, I changed a few things now. Dusknoir's geared up with fire moves, Bronzong's more tankish, Porygon2's replaced Slowking, And Uxie's replaced Shuckle. The one thing that bugs me about this new version is that there's four Trick Roomers and only two sweepers. I feel as if I need to replace one of the Trick Roomers with another sweeper, but I can't think of the one to replace nor the sweeper to replace it with.
 
I'd switch Bronzong's nature to Sassy, you really don't have many pokes that can come in on special attacks in terms of ev distributions.

Also, 4 trick roomers is a bit much. How about Slowbro in Uxie's place? Slack Off/Surf/Ice Beam/HP Electric? With Hypnosis and Will O Wisp you are providing a decent amount of support already. If you want to keep Uxie though, I'd replace Trick Room with Stealth Rock, hooray synergy with Yawn!
 
I want to replace one of the Trick Roomers, but I don't know which. This is who I'd replace them with:

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Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Quiet (Sassy?)
EVs: 252 Sp-Att, 252 HP, 6 Sp-Def (252 HP, 252 Sp-Def, 6 Def?)

- Air Slash?
- Aura Sphere?
- Roost?
- Shadow Ball?
- Grass Knot?
- Water Pulse?

Togekiss would be a much wanted helper, with good defenses and a great selection of special attacks to compliment Porygon2 and make the team not so relied on the rocks' ground and rock type attacks. I believe she would be a better contender for a special sweeper spot than Slowbro or Slowking. The only question is, who will she take the place of? And what moveset would be the best for her and for the team?
 
You could lose one of the Trick Roomers, since 4 setters and 2 sweepers is a not so great ratio, especially when one has the defenses of a origami water bomb. It'd definitely be nice to have a poke that functions well outside of TR, and Togekiss is a good idea. I'm not sure which of the setters you should get rid of, but Porygon2 should be kept.
 
Rampardos isn't going to pull off Avalanche any time soon. It will also make you slower then your opponent, as it got a negative priority. Oh, and one turn with setup is waaay to much in Trick Room. v_v Turn one: Trick Room is set up. Turn two: You'll switch to a sweeper. Turn three: You set up a Sword Dance. That leaves you with two turns, and that's really, really bad. Life Orb is a lot more appealing as it don't require any setup, and it will still make you pretty damn powerful.

I really don't like the Dusknoir lead. :/ It's crippled by the most common leads nowdays, like Gengar, Aerodactyl, Azelf, Roseradee and even Bronzong. I believe you'll have some serious issues pulling off a Trick Room. Starmie is actually a really decent lead in a Trick Room team, no joke.

Starmie @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 172 HP / 60 Def / 60 SpA / 216 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Ice Beam / Surf
- Thuderbolt

Seriously, this isn't as novelty as it seems. It outrun a lead Gengar, and OHKO with Psychic. Most Taunt leads don't even care to Taunt, as Surf usually does massive damage on the likes of Aerodactyl and Azelf, so it's pretty much a guaranteed Trick Room.

It is also a really great lategame sweeper, and doesn't require Trick Room to be effective, unlike the rest of your team.

Needless to say, it's a great lead, but it doesn't really benefit anything from Trick Room. However it's definitely worth consideration.
 
That definitely persuaded me that Starmie is a better choice than Dusknoir. I have a feeling it'll be a valuable addition to the team. Too bad I can't have Psychic, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, and Surf all at once. If I add Starmie to the team, Porygon2 will be a bit too redundant, so it'd be safe for me to switch him out for Togekiss. With Starmie and Togekiss this team'll do well on the special side to counterbalance the physical rocks. I'm glad that the team will have at least one member who isn't dependant upon Trick Room yet fits into the team very smoothly.

To be honest, I was a bit shaky on the Swords Dance setup on Rampardos, and having only two moves to attack really disheartened me. Life Orb seems like the better way to go. Thanks for suggesting it.

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Updated the team. I'm still having a few problems:

* Starmie: Ice Beam or Surf? I'm leaning to the classic BoltBeam combo, but Surf would be nice STAB on Starmie.

* Rampardos: Out of the last four physical moves, which two would have the best type coverage as well as sweeping potential?

* Offensive Togekiss or Defensive? Also, what should its last two moves be?

* Uxie: Grass Knot or Reflect? Reflect would benefit the team from physical sweepers, although only for up to 8 turns (if I make Uxie hold some soft clay), and Grass Knot helps out against water, ground, and water/ground types, which Starmie and Togekiss might have trouble taking down.
 
First thing first, Lucario is a big big BIG problem for your. With a single Swords Dance, Crunch and Close Combat will absolutely demolish you. Don't you have too many Trick Rooomers? By doing this, you severely limit yourself to the slower Psychic / Dark / Ghost Pokemon and thus puts yourself in danger to multiple threats in the OU metagame.

I suggest removing Uxie or Dusknoir for one, though I recommend removing Uxie as its moves are redundant. Replace either one of them with a nice, solid Fighting resist Pokemon, like Zapdos or Gliscor.

I suggest a Special Defensive Spiritomb over Dusknoir also. Both can Trick Room, Will O Wisp, Pain Split etc., I just think the amount of immunities and neutrality to Shadow Ball can help you against the likes of Gengar. I also suggest Shadow Sneak to compensate for its low speed and to allow it to take out lead Gengars that may cause you trouble later in the match. Lum Berry is optional on Tomb too, as sleep inducers are commonly found leading.

Finally, the lack of speedy Pokemon may be your downfall later in game when Trick Room inevitably wears off. I suggest something like Garchomp or an alternative Swords Dancer/Dragon Dancer/Calm Minder to still have that firepower and speed and/or bulk to sweep effectively.
 
Gliscor does look appealing, but if I switch out one of my Trick Room sweepers for him, the team won't really be much of a Trick Room team anymore. Though Gliscor has some advantages the others don't: immunity to EQ, a good ice attack, and recovery. I'll think about him.
 
Starmie won't be fighting in Trick Room, she's merely there to set it up. Starmie's a good starter and counters a good many of the team's weaknesses. Look at Rag's post four posts above.
 
Spirelord said:
* Starmie: Ice Beam or Surf? I'm leaning to the classic BoltBeam combo, but Surf would be nice STAB on Starmie.

* Rampardos: Out of the last four physical moves, which two would have the best type coverage as well as sweeping potential?

* Offensive Togekiss or Defensive? Also, what should its last two moves be?

* Uxie: Grass Knot or Reflect? Reflect would benefit the team from physical sweepers, although only for up to 8 turns (if I make Uxie hold some soft clay), and Grass Knot helps out against water, ground, and water/ground types, which Starmie and Togekiss might have trouble taking down.
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Ok, I managed to solve a few pokemons' problems. All that's left is Togekiss and Uxie.

For Togekiss, what theme should I go with? Offensive nature and EVs or defensive nature and EVs? And what should the last two moves be?

For Uxie, should I give it Reflect or Grass Knot? Reflect will help out the defense of the fragile rock sweepers, but Grass Knot will ease off the need for that move on Togekiss.
 
Just have one thing left to fix:

Defense Oriented Togekiss or Offense Oriented Togekiss? This is THE last and only thing I need to finish this team.
 
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