Who ya gonna call? (OU RMT)

[GhostBuster_Brik]

If there's something strange
in your neighborhood
Who ya gonna call?
GHOSTBUSTERS​

If there's something weird
and it don't look good
Who ya gonna call?
GHOSTBUSTERS​

As we all should be WELL aware, Ghostbusters is the best movie ever made. First person to try and argue that point with me dies. Plain and Simple.​

This is a team i've worked on longer than any other team i've ever worked on in the past. It's a team based entirely around flygon scouting in the early game stages of battle with U-turn, then when the team has done away with the oppositions steels, it's time to unleash the power of outrage.​

The Selection Process​

Vinz Clortho, "The Keymaster"​

Leading off this star performance we find one of the best leads to ever grace the big screen. His ability to not only setup the pesky pebbles and to beat out ridiculous amounts of leads is second only to his brilliant defensive typing. Metagross represents Vinz Clortho, "The Keymaster" as he holds the key to keeping Gyarados, Salamence, and Zapdos from having a field day with this team. Not to mention his high powered explosion could represent opening of a locked door allowing something to get in early game and immediately bring things over in my favor.​

Zuul, "The Gatekeeper"​

Next, we find the Keymasters other half in the form of Zuul, "The Gatekeeper." Originally, it had been a physically defensive zapdos, but Stallbreaking Gliscor pulls off zapdos's job just a little bit better (countering Lucario and Scizor) whilst simultaneously countering Tyranitar. Gliscor is a great addition to the team by providing a second immunity to electricity, and an immunity to earthquake, something greatly appreciated by both metagross and tyranitar. Gliscor is also great in the sense that he can shut the "gate" on stall teams, by countering massive amounts of physically inclined walls. Way to go Zuul!

Gozer the Gozerian​

Dragon Dance Tyranitar managed to worm his way into the team thanks to his amazing sweeping capabilities after only a single dragon dance. Tyranitar represents Gozer the Gozerian; a Sumerian shape-shifting god. The representation of a shape-shifting god, is in the sense that he can shift the shape of the battle flow, by quickly turning things from going one way, into going MY way. Gozer being a mighty god, I imagine was perfectly capable of summoning great and destructive storms. The storm summoned by Tyranitar in particular is also very beneficial to the star of the team as it helps wear down the more powerful foes.​

The Destructor, "Stay Puft"​

As Gozer disappears, her voice can still be heard emenating from all around. "Choose the form of the Destructor." Everybody is immediately ordered to blank their minds, but just before they do, Aykroyd makes a horrific mistake and thinks of something. "Something that could never, ever possibly destroy us." Suddenly loud thunderous footfalls are heard, and before anybody has time to think, a lumbering mass of utter destruction rounds the corner and their they face the ultimate defeat at the hands of the destructor! "It's the Stay Puft marshmallow man."​

Enter Scizor, also known as the Destructor. When the humans are allowed to choose the form of their destruction, you usually don't think scizor, but his ability to revenge kill things like salamence and the like, you can't help but think, "Damn, that guy's destructive!" And that's what scizor does.​

Insanity, "Ivo Shander"​

As a replacement for Starmie, we find the infamous Crocune. By itself he poses little threat, but given the chance to setup, he can easily drive his opponents into a horrific insanity as they fail to break him. After extensive testing, it was noted that my team had a horrific weakness to being raped by thunderwave. (mostly ttar, but you get the gist) Crocune provided not only powerful special offense, but a status absorber that is greatly appreciated. His ability to come in on powerful physical attacks is also a wonderful thing for the team, as it helps keep lucario, scizor, and many many more from being a massive threat to me.​

Venkman, Spengler, and Stantz (3-for-1)​

Finally, we come to the star(s) of the show. As mentioned only briefly before, Flygon is the primary mode of sweeping in this team, just as Peter Venkman, Egon Spengler, and Ray Stantz are the primary mode of busting in the film. Venkman contributes to the Flygon sweep with the treatment of his own job as "a dodge or hustle," by providing flygon with the wondrous move U-turn allowing him to dodge the opposition and get somebody else to take care of it for him. Spenglers brilliant mind and utter insanity, gave flygon the gift of concentrated earthquake in a can. Stantz provides flygon with the ability to pierce through the heart of his opposition with sharpened stones. Much as Stantz utilizes his childlike demeanor in comparison to the other ghostbusters, flygon utilizes his own childlike demeanor in comparison to the other dragon types, allowing him to get rid of anybody that dare stand in his way. Then, through the combined efforts of Venkman, Spengler, and Stantz, they are able to unleash a massive fury strong enough to wreck both the 12th floor of a fancy hotel, and the ball room to boot with Outrage. (And Proton Lasers)​

~At A Glance~

In-Depth​

​

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Adamant nature
200 HP, 232 Atk, 44 Sp Def, 32 Spe

Stealth Rock

Earthquake

Bullet Punch

Explosion

Metagross leads off this performance with his brilliant capabilities as a lead. Thanks to his massive list of resistances, and only 2 weaknesses, it's extremely hard to take him down. Most people prefer to opt for Meteor Mash rather than Earthquake, but the EV spread for mine is geared to outrun all lead metagross and empoleon, and 2HKO both with EQ. Stealth Rock is useful for this team, as it lets flygon get extra damage in alongside the sandstorm, and keeps salamence and gyarados checked. Earthquake is used to hit leads like Jirachi, Heatran, Metagross, Infernape, and Empoleon. Bullet Punch is useful in the form of eliminating sashed leads, and the priority is useful for picking off a weakened foe. Explosion wraps up the set by allowing Metagross to desecrate any opponent that dares stand in his way.​

​

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
Impish nature
252 HP, 216 Spe, 40 Def

Earthquake

Taunt

Roost

Toxic

StallBreaker Gliscor was added to the team as response to a suggestion by Itsuki. This particular gliscor provides me one of the single best counters to Tyranitar, Lucario, and a fantastic checkup to scizor, by taking little damage with his superior bulk. His ability to stop most walls in their tracks with taunt is absolutely amazing. Even the strongest walls in the game like Forretress, Hippowdon, Blissey, Skarmory, etc. are all wrecked by the combination of taunt and Earthquake. (Excluding skarm) Combine that with Gliscor and Tyranitar's ability combination, you get a nearly unstoppable wall wrecking force, ready to tear down the walls of anything and everything. Toxic is useful for stalling out things like swampert lacking special moves, and other assorted bulky waters like vaporeon and the like. (Provided I catch them switching in)​

​

Tyranitar @ Babiri Berry
Ability: SandStream
Jolly nature
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP

Dragon Dance

Fire Punch

Stone Edge

Crunch

Dragon Dance Tyranitar is an absolute monster, destroying anybody that dare stands in his way. After only a single dragon dance, he's single handedly devestated teams. After 2, you might as well say your GG's. Jolly nature > Adamant nature every time, I hardly see the point in being so ungodly slow with ttar, as it can quickly halt a sweep. Then he's got the deadly dual stab combination of Stone Edge and Crunch backing up his sweeping, by tearing into things like Gyara, Mence, Latias, Celebi, and of course those opposing zapdos that think they're gonna make trouble. The combination of Fire Punch and Babiri berry, helps keep Tyranitar from being devestated by scizor's powerful bullet punch, and strike back for the OHKO with some 4x loving.​

​

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Adamant nature
252 Atk, 120 HP, 136 Sp Def

Bullet Punch

U-turn

SuperPower

Pursuit

Scizor is the ultimate revenge killer to date, utilizing his high powered bullet punches and even higher powered U-turn to wreck all of his foes. The combination of both Scizor and Flygon's U-turn help keep the opponents prediction capabilities to a bear minimum. Pursuit was put back into the set, as after some minor testing, I still found latias and starmie to be terrified of it, and the extra dark offense was appreciated. SuperPower is just useful for hitting that blob of a bliss and tran and maggy when things think they have to come in on scizor.​

Note the EV spread is designed to be a bit more specially bulky than your standard scizor, helping him soak up HP-Fires from the likes of celebi taking a maximum of about 79%. (iirc)​

​

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Bold nature
252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Spe

Surf

Calm Mind

Rest

Sleep Talk

Suicune was recommended by MrIndigo, and his ability to come in on status is absolutely amazing. Crocune provides me with another superb walling force, as well as serious special offense. RestTalk provides the stalling ability and healing factor that makes Crocune so devestating. Calm Mind boosting his already phenomenal special stats, allowing him to wall attacks from both ends of the spectrum with ease, then when he's good and ready, he starts slamming everything that dare stands in his way with a high powered STAB surf. Oh lordy good times for all.​

​

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Adamant nature
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 6 Sp Def

Outrage

Earthquake

Stone Edge

U-turn

Flygon is the star member of the team, and a damned good one at that. The entire basis of the team is for flygon to get a hole torn open in the opposing team to sweep. In early game stages, flygon is safely revealed, but the opponent only meets a nice little U-turn action. In late game stages when all flying types and steel types have been dispatched, flygon is finally freed up to sweep with his STAB moves. Most of flygons counters are dealth with through other members, leaving flygon safe from harm. Stone Edge is essentially a filler move, but is useful for hitting the 3 big fliers of OU: Zapdos, Salamence, Gyarados.​

Currently juggling with the idea of using specially based Life orb flygon in this position. Any thoughts and recommendations for this would be appreciated.

There's the team in it's current state. As of now, it's done a phenomenal job performing in battle, but i'm still looking to improve. I will not, repeat not replace flygon, as he's obviously the star of the team. I've had plenty of people recommend I replace flygon with Classic Mixmence, but i'm not gonna do it folks. The whole base of the team is for flygon to sweep. However, I am considering using the Special Life Orb variation of Flygon for a testing period, although the lack of speed could be hindering. Everything else on the team is open to improvement, and even flygon's moveset, but the first time I get somebody telling me to replace hydro pump with surf on starmie, or replacing flygon in general, will die.​

I hope you all had as much fun reading this RMT, as I did making it for the past 2 1/2 hours. Thank you, and happy rating.​

 

[frogbandit]

Hi,

Lol, cool team, and props to your presentation too. I think you should tweak your DD Tyranitar set a bit. DD Tar is an extremely potent threat, while not having the immediate power of the Choice Band set, can easily sweep a team with Dragon Dance. However, the set you run currently is easily revenge killed by Scizor, an even more dangerous threat, with Bullet Punch. Bullet Punch does almost always kills Tyranitar with Stealth Rock damage, so I suggest a change in item. Lum berry doesn't seem help as much as Babiri berry would. Babiri berry halves Steel-type attacks, which allows you to survive Scizor's Bullet Punch with a good amount of HP left. Another option could be Leftovers, which gives you a better chance of survival, but I wouldn't take the risk.

I also suggest changing Earthquake on Tyranitar to Fire Punch, to take out Scizor swiftly after surviving the Bullet Punch, and from there you're sweep should be unheeded. Earthquake doesn't really help against some of the other threats, steels should be taken care of with Fire Punch and Heatran can be handled easily with a Stone Edge, or other members of your team. You even said EQ was a filler move, so it should be okay to swap it for Fire Punch

Other than that, the team looks quite solid, gl.

 

[GhostBuster_Brik]

Thank you for your feedback, and the recommendation on TTar. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[Itsuki]

Hello GhostBuster_Brik, the team looks rather solid but there are somethings I think would benefit your team a lot. First of all most of your Pokemon are rather focused on one side of the attacking spectrum making it easy for things like Skarmory and Blissey just to come in and overall making it hard to get past stall teams imo. Consider using a stall breaker Gliscor. This will help with your Lucario and stall weakness (to an extent).

Gliscor @ Leftovers | Sand Veil
Jolly | 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spe
Earthquake / Toxic / Taunt / Roost

Gliscor provides the much needed Lucario counter as well as a threat to stall teams. With this set the likes of Rotom, Hippowdon, and Skarmory will become set up fodder for Tyranitar. 224 Speed is used to get the jump on opposing Gliscor. Gliscor also acts as a check to Dragon Dance Tyranitar who poses a threat as only Flygon can really check it off.

Secondly, I suggest using Pursuit over Quick Attack on Scizor. This highlights the main aspects of him being a trapper and taking on Pokemon like Scarf Rotom and Latias who can be threats later on with the proper support. An EV spread of 160 HP / 176 Atk / 4 Spe / 168 SpD would suffice. The EVs allow you to switch into a Draco Meteor from Salamence and Latias dealing a minimum of 55% to Salamence as well as OHKOing the latter with U-turn or Pursuit.

Now with these 2 I have suggested it makes your team rather weak to Gyarados so I suggest using a Vaporeon to deal with Gyarados as well as being a counter to Infernape and Suicune (to an extent).

Vaporeon @ Leftovers | Water Absorb
Bold | 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpD
Surf / Hidden Power Electric / Wish / Protect

I was going to suggest Roar here but it makes you rather weak to Taunt Gyarados. Wish passing is also welcome as retaining bulk and health is rather welcome on Tyranitar and Scizor. Vaporeons valuable Water type also helps in absorbing Water and Ice attacks directed at Flygon, Tyranitar, and Gliscor.

As for your lead Metagross I would like to suggest trying out a spread of 200 HP / 232 Atk / 44 SpD / 32 Spe with a Lum Berry attached. I see no gaping weakness to Fire attacks but with Lum Berry you'll be able to take on sleep leads more commonly Roserade and Smeargle who would otherwise set up their entry hazards as you sleep/switch which would hinder Vaporeon.

Hope I helped!

 

[GhostBuster_Brik]

Thank you for your fantastic suggestions. Although one thing I noticed, who exactly do I replace to slip Vaporeon and Gliscor into the team? With Gliscor, i'm assuming you want me to swap out zapdos, and with vaporeon i'm assuming I swap out Starmie. Is this assumption correct?

 

[MrIndigo]

This is the most minor nitpick ever, but 'destructor' isn't a word, because 'destruct' doesn't mean what you think it does. The correct word is "destroyer".

On to the team: I don't think you need to replace Zapdos with Gliscor. They perform very similar roles, and I don't think you gain anything material with Gliscor that you don't have with Zapdos. The only thing you might want to change is running Toxic over Heat Wave or HP Ice to deal with Blissey and similar.

I don't think you need Rapid Spin or Recover on Starmie. Nondefensive Starmie is pretty frail, so finding worthwhile opportunities to Recover is difficult. Furthermore, noone on your team is overly hassled by Rocks or Spikes, so Rapid Spin isn't really essential.

Instead, I would run a more Special offensive geared set here, or change to a different special attacker. I think Porygon2 might be worth trying, but you could also try Vaporeon or Rotom-A. Even a RestTalker might be worth using here (Crocune?).

Finally, I've always found that Scarfgon works really well as a Mixed Attacker. Fire Blast/U-Turn/Earthquake/Draco Meteor, but I can't remember the EVs/Nature. This gives you the ability to 2HKO both Blissey and Skarmory with decent prediction and bluffing, particularly since you generally don't reveal your mixedness early on when you're just U-turning everywhere. And Draco Meteor is just retardedly powerful on non-Steel non-Blissey switch-ins, and doesn't lock you in to be revenged.

 

[Mr. Dodecahedron]

I like your Metagross's EV spread (and EQ/BP/Explosion as your three moves), and I suggest you keep it that way for the reasons you stated (2HKOing lead Metagross and Empoleon, I'll assume you did the calculations).

EVing Zapdos to outspeed Adamant Lucario was a good idea, but it might get 2HKOed by some things it wouldn't be otherwise with the standard 248 HP/228 Def/32 Spe. Also, Starmie and Flygon can OHKO Lucario, and it can't OHKO them with ExtremeSpeed. Also, it would probably be a good idea to switch Hidden Power Ice for Grass, as your team seems a bit weak to Swampert (Zapdos Hidden Power Grass 2HKOs it), and Salamence is 2HKOed with Thunderbolt (after Stealth Rock or just Life Orb recoil). And don't be worried about Gliscor, Starmie takes care of it, while Gliscor can't really touch it.

That Tyranitar is a good way of blasting holes in the opponent's defenses, and weakening things enough for Flygon's final sweep when necessary, and for taking care of Scizor, and other common OU threats, and has good synergy with the rest of the team, so good job.

Scizor, well, it's a goddamn awesome Choice Bander, and is put to best use when played conservatively in the early stages of a battle, U-turning out pretty much all the time. EV Nitpick: 124 HP puts it at 312 HP, which is divisible by 8 (opposing SR), so the spread of 120 HP/252 Atk/136 SpDef is advised for your specially bulky one.

Starmie is a great Rapid Spinner/(Life Orbed) Special Attacker. My only recommendation/change would be to use 252 Spe/252 SpAtk/4SpDef for the EV Spread, which puts it at 361 Spe, outspeeding Base 60 Scarfers (Magnezone!), and ties with other Starmie who run max. That 40 HP isn't especially needed, considering you're using Life Orb anyway, and the 4 SpDef is just in case of Porygon-z with Download (about 1.6% of teams have a Pz with Download).

Flygon is a great choice as your Choice Scarf late-game Sweeper, and early/mid-game U-turning scouter. It can easily finish off a team with eliminated Steels and physically Bulky Pokémon, so props for using it. EV Nitpick: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpDef for the above mentioned 1.6% of battles Download Porygon-z appears in, if for some reason it has been Baton Passed an Agility or some shit. Also, weaker Ice Beams (Blissey) do slightly insignificantly less damage.

In regards to your team as a whole, it is pretty awesome, synergy and coverage wise. You have at least 2 resistances to everything (other than Water), and you have no more than 2 weaknesses to anything. Scizor and Flygon cover each other's weaknesses really well (although if U-turning to the other you then have to use U-turn or switch), and the rest of your team cover one another and Scizor and Flygon well also. You also basically have no giant threats other than Swampert (just run HP grass on Zapdos).

 

[GhostBuster_Brik]

This is the most minor nitpick ever, but 'destructor' isn't a word, because 'destruct' doesn't mean what you think it does. The correct word is "destroyer".

Something I must say, is that they actually use the word "Destructor" in the movie itself lol. I figured I might as well stay synergized with the movie.

On to the team: I don't think you need to replace Zapdos with Gliscor. They perform very similar roles, and I don't think you gain anything material with Gliscor that you don't have with Zapdos. The only thing you might want to change is running Toxic over Heat Wave or HP Ice to deal with Blissey and similar.

I can see the warranty of running Toxic > HP-Ice, as i've noticed blissey can be a problem in late game stages when my physical attackers are weakened/gone.

I don't think you need Rapid Spin or Recover on Starmie. Nondefensive Starmie is pretty frail, so finding worthwhile opportunities to Recover is difficult. Furthermore, noone on your team is overly hassled by Rocks or Spikes, so Rapid Spin isn't really essential.

Instead, I would run a more Special offensive geared set here, or change to a different special attacker. I think Porygon2 might be worth trying, but you could also try Vaporeon or Rotom-A. Even a RestTalker might be worth using here (Crocune?).

The thought of using a form of Suicune actually had crossed my mind during the early developmental stages of building the team. A Crocune would also be a huge plus to this team, as i've found that my team is utterly raped by status. In particular paralysis. With Crocune taking all the Twaves, i'd be free to get tyranitar and such back in to deal more damage.

Finally, I've always found that Scarfgon works really well as a Mixed Attacker. Fire Blast/U-Turn/Earthquake/Draco Meteor, but I can't remember the EVs/Nature. This gives you the ability to 2HKO both Blissey and Skarmory with decent prediction and bluffing, particularly since you generally don't reveal your mixedness early on when you're just U-turning everywhere. And Draco Meteor is just retardedly powerful on non-Steel non-Blissey switch-ins, and doesn't lock you in to be revenged.

Speaking of mixed flygon, how much do you think it would affect the synergy if I used the new LO special flygon setup? I would miss out on all the speed, but in return i'd pack more power and special offense.

Flygon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Rash nature
252 Sp Atk, 176 Spe, 80 Atk
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

This could give flygon a lot of surprise value to the opposition, and i've REALLY wanted to try it out lately, as it looks ridiculously fun to use. It can also eliminate skarmbliss for me, by OHKO'ing Skarmory with Fire Blast, and 2HKO'ing blissey with Earthquake. I get to keep U-turn, and I get to utilize the overpowering draco meteor. Any thoughts on whether I should use it or not?

I like your Metagross's EV spread (and EQ/BP/Explosion as your three moves), and I suggest you keep it that way for the reasons you stated (2HKOing lead Metagross and Empoleon, I'll assume you did the calculations).

EVing Zapdos to outspeed Adamant Lucario was a good idea, but it might get 2HKOed by some things it wouldn't be otherwise with the standard 248 HP/228 Def/32 Spe. Also, Starmie and Flygon can OHKO Lucario, and it can't OHKO them with ExtremeSpeed. Also, it would probably be a good idea to switch Hidden Power Ice for Grass, as your team seems a bit weak to Swampert (Zapdos Hidden Power Grass 2HKOs it), and Salamence is 2HKOed with Thunderbolt (after Stealth Rock or just Life Orb recoil). And don't be worried about Gliscor, Starmie takes care of it, while Gliscor can't really touch it.

That Tyranitar is a good way of blasting holes in the opponent's defenses, and weakening things enough for Flygon's final sweep when necessary, and for taking care of Scizor, and other common OU threats, and has good synergy with the rest of the team, so good job.

Scizor, well, it's a goddamn awesome Choice Bander, and is put to best use when played conservatively in the early stages of a battle, U-turning out pretty much all the time. EV Nitpick: 124 HP puts it at 312 HP, which is divisible by 8 (opposing SR), so the spread of 120 HP/252 Atk/136 SpDef is advised for your specially bulky one.

I hadn't actually caught the even HP number until right in the middle of a battle on shoddy, thanks for catching it once more, seeing as I forgot about it afterwards.

Starmie is a great Rapid Spinner/(Life Orbed) Special Attacker. My only recommendation/change would be to use 252 Spe/252 SpAtk/4SpDef for the EV Spread, which puts it at 361 Spe, outspeeding Base 60 Scarfers (Magnezone!), and ties with other Starmie who run max. That 40 HP isn't especially needed, considering you're using Life Orb anyway, and the 4 SpDef is just in case of Porygon-z with Download (about 1.6% of teams have a Pz with Download).

This will rely solely on whether I swap out starmie for suicune or not.

Flygon is a great choice as your Choice Scarf late-game Sweeper, and early/mid-game U-turning scouter. It can easily finish off a team with eliminated Steels and physically Bulky Pokémon, so props for using it. EV Nitpick: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpDef for the above mentioned 1.6% of battles Download Porygon-z appears in, if for some reason it has been Baton Passed an Agility or some shit. Also, weaker Ice Beams (Blissey) do slightly insignificantly less damage.

Above ^

In regards to your team as a whole, it is pretty awesome, synergy and coverage wise. You have at least 2 resistances to everything (other than Water), and you have no more than 2 weaknesses to anything. Scizor and Flygon cover each other's weaknesses really well (although if U-turning to the other you then have to use U-turn or switch), and the rest of your team cover one another and Scizor and Flygon well also. You also basically have no giant threats other than Swampert (just run HP grass on Zapdos).

Yeah, on shoddy when putting the team back together, I noticed that HP-Grass would be more beneficial for the team as a whole. The only real problem I had was getting the proper IV's to be legal AND keep zapdos with HP-Grass.

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. Whenever I have the time, i'll edit the first post to encompass all the changes.

 

[GhostBuster_Brik]

Bumping this thread with the changes made in the first post.

Gliscor is now in place of Zapdos.
Crocune is now in place of Starmie.
Metagross EV spread and item changed.

Thanks for all the help so far smogon.

 

[MrIndigo]

I think Zapdos (or possibly Rotom-H) is better for your team than Gliscor is, personally.

I wouldn't get rid of Scarf on Flygon; if you're going with Life Orb, you'd probably be better off replacing Flygon completely for Latias or Salamence. I feel that it's really only his Revege Scout purposes that make him useful, and I just think that the Mixed set accomplishes this more than the all-physical.

 

[Mergy]

If you're keeping Gliscor, you might want to consider trying U-turn on him in place of Toxic. You'll probably have rocks up, and the ability to U-turn between Gliscor, Flygon and Scizor, especially when combined with Taunt, will cause a lot of unnecessary switches on your opponent's part and make scouting his team a lot easier.

 

[MadHater]

You should consider a more offense suicune with hp electric so your team doesnt fall so prey to gyarados. Even with it though once suicune is gone your team is swept after 1 DD for the most part.